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julian assflange posted:Only four years until Japan's great reveal as the pre-eminent force in world rugby Assuming they can finish their loving stadium in time, that is.
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Oct 18, 2015 22:04
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Also, c'mon guys show some decorum, there's a Lions tour of NZ in two years time at least leave your gloating til then  Apollodorus posted:Maybe the 6N countries could...take some kind of...tour...to the RC countries next June in order to...test...how well they...match up against them. A "rugby tour" featuring "test matches," if you will. Or maybe even sooner than that, the RC countries could likewise have a "tour" to Europe. argh you beat me to it
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Oct 18, 2015 22:06
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I just watched the NZ - France game. All Blacks look like they have gears so high the other teams can't even count that high
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Oct 18, 2015 22:08
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The USA Eagles of America and also the Canadian Canadas are too lovely to even belong in the Northern Hemisphere, JFC. Maybe just MAYBE the Olympics will be our salvation, but I am not holding my breath (because I would literally die)
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Oct 18, 2015 22:10
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Apollodorus posted:Maybe the 6N countries could...take some kind of...tour...to the RC countries next June in order to...test...how well they...match up against them. A "rugby tour" featuring "test matches," if you will. Or maybe even sooner than that, the RC countries could likewise have a "tour" to Europe. Clearly that hasn't helped. On a more serious note, NH needs to look at it's style of Rugby. The fact that Australia, in which Rugby is the 4th or even 5th sport in terms of drawing talent (there's League, AFL, Cricket and now Soccer ahead of it), and is perennially close to bankruptcy, manages to keep being generally better than the NH teams should be an indication that conservative Rugby just isn't cutting it. I'm not saying this to crow about Australia being good, we're not particularly good, as evidenced by the Scotland game, and I expect us to lose the final if not the semi.
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Oct 18, 2015 22:10
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Apollodorus posted:Assuming they can finish their loving stadium in time, that is. iirc the stadium for the final is one that is already built and the rest are from the football World Cup in 2002. I'm sure they can whip up a new olymypic stadium in no time
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Oct 18, 2015 22:17
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Unimpressed posted:Clearly that hasn't helped. A year ago Australia was a shitheap that couldn't beat most pacific islands, three weeks ago South Africa was on the wrong end of the biggest upset in WC history then barely scraped by a Wales side that was picking subs from the stands, and Australia just scraped by Scotland (Scotland!) on a bad penalty call. This isn't the death of NH rugby, it's a confluence of freak events and the bad reffing die coming up in favour of the SH sides. English and French rugby need to take a long hard look at their priorities, particularly when you look at Australia's success with flexing their "play in Aus" rule, but they don't need to fundamentally alter how they do rugby.
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Oct 18, 2015 22:18
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Perhaps instead of the SH sides not picking players who take the cash from the North, French and English clubs will only pick players who agree not to play for their Nation. This is a joke
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Oct 18, 2015 22:19
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Unimpressed posted:Clearly that hasn't helped. Scotland (and Glasgow) are trying to play more fast paced, counter attacking rugby like the SH teams, they just don't have the resources/players to do it yet  Apparentl Joubert ran into the tunnel immediately after he blew the final whistle, refusing to shake the players' hands. Disgraceful poo poo.
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Oct 18, 2015 22:39
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Vaders Jester posted:Apparentl Joubert ran into the tunnel immediately after he blew the final whistle, refusing to shake the players' hands. Disgraceful poo poo. Job done for him I suppose. Probably had to go report to the Southern Hemispherinati lizard people
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Oct 18, 2015 22:43
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Joubert Did Nothing Wrong. Blue 20 hit ball forward with shoulder. Mere act of hitting the ball forward is not a knock-on; it's only a knock-on once the ball hits another player or the ground. Law 12. The knock-on occurred when the ball bounced off the Yellow player. Blue 18, while offsides, prevented Yellow from gaining advantage. Law 11.7. Accidental offsides is not applicable, as it requires that Blue 18 "cannot avoid being touched by the ball", where here, Blue 18 intentionally played the ball. Law 11.6.
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Oct 18, 2015 22:47
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:Joubert Did Nothing Wrong. Phipps touched it before it got to the offside player. (in fact he slapped it back) Joubert thought the ball came from Strauss to the offside player which is why he gave a penalty and if it had gone to TMO he would have changed it to a scrum.
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Oct 18, 2015 22:53
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:Joubert Did Nothing Wrong. Has to actaully come off a Scottish player last for it to be a penalty, other than that you'd be right.
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Oct 18, 2015 22:56
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Phipps made contact with the ball (his forearm) after it hit Josh Strauss' shoulder. E: ITV did a rundown of it after the match and even Michael Lynagh had a hard time saying it didn't touch gold last MyChemicalImbalance fucked around with this message at 23:03 on Oct 18, 2015 |
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Oct 18, 2015 23:01
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Unimpressed posted:Clearly that hasn't helped. It goes a bit deeper than that though. The 6N teams often try to play expansive rugby, and sometimes they do it quite well like we saw in the last week of this year's tournament. However, they can't play it consistently because they don't have the same skill levels as the SH players. At underage levels there's too much of an emphasis on winning at all costs, rather than developing players. Kids are doing weights from a young age and end up playing for school and representative sides because they're massive but then they get found out at higher levels when they face off against other big players who also have a skill set. It comes down to coaching from a young age and as long as underage coaching in the Northern Hemisphere revolves around getting kids big enough to enter professional setups from as young an age as possible rather than perfecting basic skills such as handling the SH teams will always reign supreme. (Note to the RFU and the FFR; The solution to this problem does not involve ceding more power to private clubs.)
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Oct 18, 2015 23:06
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tarbrush posted:A year ago Australia was a shitheap that couldn't beat most pacific islands, three weeks ago South Africa was on the wrong end of the biggest upset in WC history then barely scraped by a Wales side that was picking subs from the stands, and Australia just scraped by Scotland (Scotland!) on a bad penalty call. This isn't the death of NH rugby, it's a confluence of freak events and the bad reffing die coming up in favour of the SH sides. Rubbish, a year ago Australia were playing like poo poo, fell to 6th (only 6th) in the world and still managed to beat France 3 times in Australia, and Wales in Wales. We're not even that much better than we were then, sure Cheika's instilled some spine, but it's still 80% the same group of players. Wales have a great group of players, but all they could think of doing against Australia is crash the ball through the middle. England have the biggest player base and the most money and all they can think of doing is crash the ball through the middle and get scrum penalties. The way NH teams play is at the root of all this. Just compare SR to the NH comps (where Australian teams are among the weakest, BTW).
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Oct 18, 2015 23:15
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What does any of this have to do with the matter at hand? We should all be coming together to celebrate the overwhelming success of 'Operation: Ruin It For England'
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Oct 18, 2015 23:55
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Unimpressed posted:We're not even that much better than we were then, sure Cheika's instilled some spine, but it's still 80% the same group of players. Wales have a great group of players, but all they could think of doing against Australia is crash the ball through the middle. This is my point. All the NH needs are some coaches that have a loving clue. Look at what Cotter's done for Scotland, what Chieka's done for Aus and the damage Saint-Andre and Lancaster have inflicted on England and France. There are plenty of high quality players available for the home nations, they were just hurt for Wales and Ireland and on the bench/ at home for England.
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Oct 19, 2015 00:02
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Vagabundo posted:Freedom Cup Oh man, Team USA needs to get in on this action.
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Oct 19, 2015 00:26
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DickEmery posted:Phipps touched it before it got to the offside player. (in fact he slapped it back) MyChemicalImbalance posted:Phipps made contact with the ball (his forearm) after it hit Josh Strauss' shoulder. Vaders Jester posted:Has to actaully come off a Scottish player last for it to be a penalty, other than that you'd be right.   Law 12: quote:A knock-on occurs when a player loses possession of the ball and it goes forward, or when a player hits the ball forward with hand or arm, or when the ball hits the hand or arm and goes forward, and the ball touches the ground or another player before the original player can catch it. Law 11.7: quote:When a player knocks-on and an offside team-mate next plays the ball, the offside player is liable to sanction if playing the ball prevented an opponent from gaining an advantage. Blue 20 knocks-on. Blue 18 plays the ball, preventing Yellow from gaining advantage.When a player knocks-on and an offside team-mate next plays the ball, the offside player is liable to sanction if playing the ball prevented an opponent from gaining an advantage. The sanction is a penalty kick.
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Oct 19, 2015 00:31
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tarbrush posted:This is my point. All the NH needs are some coaches that have a loving clue. Look at what Cotter's done for Scotland, what Chieka's done for Aus and the damage Saint-Andre and Lancaster have inflicted on England and France. A full-strength Wales team with Webb, Halfpenny, and Davies would have beaten the Springboks, but of course you don't play with the team you could have, you play with the team you do have. Ditto for Ireland with Sexton, O'Mahony, O'Brien, and O'Connell. The same teammate/player-coach I mentioned a few pages back says he "basically ignore[s] Northern Hemisphere rugby" because he thinks it's poo poo (nevermind that he lives in the Northern Hemisphere and to my knowledge has never been to any of RC countries or the SH in general) and tries to get our team - which consists largely of grad students who have never played rugby before and don't know the rules at all - to play a "Southern Hemisphere style" of game, which doesn't mean much when many players on the team not only can't pass well but literally do not know what a good pass looks like in rugby because they've never actually seen a game played. Sorry I am kind of losing the plot here, the point is, at their theoretical highs there are at any given time three teams from the Six Nations that are as good as or better than the Springboks, Wallabies, or Pumas at their own theoretical highs. Scotland is not one of those, despite what today seemed to show, because the Wallabies played badly and Bernard Foley in particular had a real off day, but England, France, Wales, and Ireland have all repeatedly shown an ability to play great rugby and the lack of NH teams in the semis this RWC is a combination of unfortunate circumstances, bad injuries in the case of Wales and Ireland and bad coaching in the case of England and France. In my opinion, England also suffered from a huge media frenzy that, among other things, led to Sam Burgess trying to be crammed into the role of "The Sonny Bill Williams of England," forgetting that a guy who is claimed to be the someone of somewhere is not, in fact, the anyone of anywhere. edit: I now realize I largely repeated the post I quoted, which I must have either not read or immediately forgot I read. Welp. Apollodorus fucked around with this message at 00:42 on Oct 19, 2015 |
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Oct 19, 2015 00:35
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In order for that not to have been a penalty, Phipps would have had to not touch the ball after Strauss, as then there wouldn't have been a knock-on when Blue 18 played the ball (as the knock-on only would occur once it touches him as the "other player" of Law 12). This is like the flip side of the 2014 clarification
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Oct 19, 2015 00:35
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bigfoot again posted:Nope he folded in half like a penknife on multiple occasions Lol no. This is not remotely true you idiot.
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Oct 19, 2015 00:43
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:Blue 20 knocks-on. Blue 18 plays the ball, preventing Yellow from gaining advantage.When a player knocks-on and an offside team-mate next plays the ball, the offside player is liable to sanction if playing the ball prevented an opponent from gaining an advantage. The sanction is a penalty kick. 11.3 Being put onside by opponents In general play, there are three ways by which an offside player can be put onside by an action of the opposing team. These three ways do not apply to a player who is offside under the 10-Metre Law. (a) Runs 5 metres with ball. When an opponent carrying the ball runs 5 metres, the offside player is put onside. (b) Kicks or passes. When an opponent kicks or passes the ball, the offside player is put onside. (c) Intentionally touches ball. When an opponent intentionally touches the ball but does not catch it, the offside player is put onside. Blue 20 plays the ball, Yellow 21 intentionally touches the ball, therefore Blue 18 is onside again.
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Oct 19, 2015 00:48
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Apollodorus posted:Sorry I am kind of losing the plot here, the point is, at their theoretical highs there are at any given time three teams from the Six Nations that are as good as or better than the Springboks, Wallabies, or Pumas at their own theoretical highs. Australia's record since the turn of the millenium against England, Wales, France and Ireland is 44-23-2, and we're the third best SH team.
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Oct 19, 2015 01:24
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Painkiller posted:11.3 Being put onside by opponents I think you can go either way on the decision of whether Phipps meant to touch it or not. Either he's reaching for the ball and bumps it forward or the ball just bounces off his shoulder through no intention of his own.
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Oct 19, 2015 01:27
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Wandle Cax posted:I think you can go either way on the decision of whether Phipps meant to touch it or not. Either he's reaching for the ball and bumps it forward or the ball just bounces off his shoulder through no intention of his own. Given that the replay shows him pushing it back with his hand, I don't think it's that inconcievable that he meant to knock it back.
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Oct 19, 2015 01:33
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It's a defensible call, at least.
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Oct 19, 2015 01:37
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Unimpressed posted:Australia's record since the turn of the millenium against England, Wales, France and Ireland is 44-23-2, and we're the third best SH team. Okay, I guess I was wrong. Either that's not what I meant and I don't know how to put what I meant into sensible terms, or it was just totally incorrect. Yeah I dunno. edit: mostly I am just frustrated with the idea that rugby isn't worth watching unless it's the best, i.e. All Blacks tests and SupeRugby Of Americans who are rugby fans, I would guess that 75% are All Blacks supporters, simply because the ABs are the best. That's literally the reason, they like being fans of a rugby team that wins over 90% of its matches. At the USA/ABs test in November 2014, a LARGE percentage of the people wearing black jerseys in the stands were American. Maybe I'm just a hipster, but I don't see the point of supporting a team to which one has otherwise no real connection (no ancestry, no period of living in that country, no spouse/in-law from that country) simply because it's a popular team. poo poo, the teammate I was talking about also uses "we/us" to refer to the teams he follows, i.e. the Crusaders and the All Blacks, despite - I repeat - never having actually been to New Zealand. Apollodorus fucked around with this message at 01:51 on Oct 19, 2015 |
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Oct 19, 2015 01:46
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Wandle Cax posted:I think you can go either way on the decision of whether Phipps meant to touch it or not. Either he's reaching for the ball and bumps it forward or the ball just bounces off his shoulder through no intention of his own. Surely if he's not intending to get the ball in that situation he's obstructing in which case it's still a bullshit call? Edit: For the record, I think legislating for intent is woefully misguided, either a player does something or he doesn't do it. At worst, it should dictate the severity of any given punishment for infringement. forpush fucked around with this message at 01:55 on Oct 19, 2015 |
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Oct 19, 2015 01:51
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Apollodorus posted:Maybe I'm just a hipster, but I don't see the point of supporting a team to which one has otherwise no real connection (no ancestry, no period of living in that country, no spouse/in-law from that country) simply because it's a popular team. poo poo, the teammate I was talking about also uses "we/us" to refer to the teams he follows, i.e. the Crusaders and the All Blacks, despite - I repeat - never having actually been to New Zealand. Could you also have a chat with all the useless bandwagon jumping Dallas Cowboy fans spread across the continental USA?
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Oct 19, 2015 01:57
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butros posted:Could you also have a chat with all the useless bandwagon jumping Dallas Cowboy fans spread across the continental USA? I don't have much ground to stand on there as I grew up a Patriots supporter. Being from Mass. and all.
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Oct 19, 2015 02:07
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Apollodorus posted:edit: mostly I am just frustrated with the idea that rugby isn't worth watching unless it's the best, i.e. All Blacks tests and SupeRugby Nah, you're totally right there. Supporting the ABs in Rugby is like supporting the Aussies in Cricket (not so much nowadays), ManU/Real/Barca in soccer and the Lakers in NBA. You only do it if you were born there, otherwise you're a loving glory chaser. The worst is when you see a family with say three boys and one's wearing an AB jersey, the other Man City and the other Chelsea. This is in Sydney. gently caress your parents to hell.
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Oct 19, 2015 02:23
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Apollodorus posted:Okay, I guess I was wrong. Either that's not what I meant and I don't know how to put what I meant into sensible terms, or it was just totally incorrect. I've got family who all live in Christchurch and are huge rugby fans (unsurprisingly) so I've got some legitimate links to NZ and maybe, kind of an excuse to call them my second team... had my grandmother not been from Italy, so I always root for Italy as my second team.
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Oct 19, 2015 02:32
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Apollodorus posted:The USA Eagles of America and also the Canadian Canadas are too lovely to even belong in the Northern Hemisphere, JFC. I thought our Canadian Women's 15s and 7s teams were respectable/good? :|
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Oct 19, 2015 02:38
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Vaders Jester posted:I've got family who all live in Christchurch and are huge rugby fans (unsurprisingly) so I've got some legitimate links to NZ and maybe, kind of an excuse to call them my second team... had my grandmother not been from Italy, so I always root for Italy as my second team. I was introduced to rugby when I lived in Italy for a year in HS, my host-father was a rugby coach and his son played scrumhalf (a/k/a mediano di mischia) and the first game I ever saw was Italy vs Ireland at the Stadio Flaminio in Rome. Italy are always my second team, and NO ONE can accuse me of being a glory-chaser.  Unimpressed posted:Nah, you're totally right there. Supporting the ABs in Rugby is like supporting the Aussies in Cricket (not so much nowadays), ManU/Real/Barca in soccer and the Lakers in NBA. You only do it if you were born there, otherwise you're a loving glory chaser. The worst is when you see a family with say three boys and one's wearing an AB jersey, the other Man City and the other Chelsea. This is in Sydney. gently caress your parents to hell. And the thing is, I LOVE the All Blacks. They play the best rugby, in every way. But, like, where's the thrill in supporting a team which is arguably the second-most dominant team in the world after the Harlem Globetrotters? Even when the ABs lose you know they're going to win again, either the next match or like two matches later.
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Oct 19, 2015 02:40
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Xtanstic posted:I thought our Canadian Women's 15s and 7s teams were respectable/good? :| Yes, that's true. And shame on me for not mentioning women's rugby in my post, at which USA is well short of being poo poo and Canada actually good. One of the women on the 7s team actually used to train with my club in Florida before she graduated college and became a professional 7s player 
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Oct 19, 2015 02:42
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Apollodorus posted:I was introduced to rugby when I lived in Italy for a year in HS, my host-father was a rugby coach and his son played scrumhalf (a/k/a mediano di mischia) and the first game I ever saw was Italy vs Ireland at the Stadio Flaminio in Rome. Italy are always my second team, and NO ONE can accuse me of being a glory-chaser. When was the last time NZ lost two on the trot? Vagabundo?
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Oct 19, 2015 02:47
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2011?
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Oct 19, 2015 03:16
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Apollodorus posted:And the thing is, I LOVE the All Blacks. They play the best rugby, in every way. But, like, where's the thrill in supporting a team which is arguably the second-most dominant team in the world after the Harlem Globetrotters? Even when the ABs lose you know they're going to win again, either the next match or like two matches later. I think this is what it comes down to. Being I'm from NZ, I will obviously support the All Blacks, but at the same time, I'm massively happy when the weaker teams score tries against us. I was pleased when Australia won the RC, as it seemed a revival may happen (this was incorrect). Argentina have improved dramatically since their inclusion and it is awesome. Having one team dominate to the extent they do is not good for the sport for anywhere apart from in NZ and people should throw their weight behind their home teams to try and grow them. (Also Japan, 'cause gently caress yes). Maybe the best idea is to make the club competitions worldwide? We've already got Japan and Singapore joining the super 15, why not some European teams? Stick to the same rules where only 2 imports are allowed so the player skills increase while not weakening the pool of players for international sides.
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Oct 19, 2015 03:51
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