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STAC Goat posted:Not only is the natural logical development of DD Season 1 it will inevitably lead to a hilarious revolt where half the internet audience decides Frank is right and Matt's a self righteous rear end in a top hat. ... Rick basically became Shane immediately after anyway so I actually will stand by that! ED: In all seriousness the beauty is neither are exactly right: The guy who keeps letting criminals bounce out of the law system to kill people, or the guy who puts EVERYONE in the ground.
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Oct 19, 2015 20:39
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PerniciousKnid posted:The FF movie got such poo poo reviews that maybe Marvel will be able to regain the rights? There was a rumor a few days ago that this was happening because literally everyone who doesn't work at Fox wants this to happen, but it's not happening.
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Oct 19, 2015 21:01
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mind the walrus posted:There was a rumor a few days ago that this was happening because literally everyone who doesn't work at Fox wants this to happen, but it's not happening. Even tho ff4 is considered a bad movie, it will probably still turn a profit due to shady accounting and overseas releases
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Oct 19, 2015 21:07
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32MB OF ESRAM posted:Even tho ff4 is considered a bad movie, it will probably still turn a profit due to shady accounting and overseas releases It already did. I really hope that one day a director's cut gets released. I've heard a LOT about the massive, massive sections of the film that were wiped out and changed and I am positive the original movie looks very different. I think the original movie sans interference might have been been good. mind the walrus posted:There was a rumor a few days ago that this was happening because literally everyone who doesn't work at Fox wants this to happen, but it's not happening. The license is cursed yet people hold onto it like it's the best thing ever. I don't even want Marvel to try making one, it'd just be nice to have Doom. Blazing Ownager fucked around with this message at 21:10 on Oct 19, 2015 |
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Oct 19, 2015 21:08
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Blazing Ownager posted:
Well I'd say that in the end Matt/Rick are deeply flawed and broken men who make a lot of mistakes with the best of intentions, while Frank/Shane jump on those mistakes to justify really psychopathic worldviews. But yeah, Rick ended up trying Shane's way later while Matt actually tried Frank's way first and it just didn't work out for him. He tried to kill Fisk, and he just failed. And that failure gave him a second chance to do it a different way. Which is why the Daredevil/Punisher dynamic seems so interesting since Matt doesn't have a ton of moral high ground here since Frank's just doing what Matt set out to do originally, he just brought a gun to a knife fight. So Matt has to come to terms with his own guilt for inspiring the Punisher and that "but for the grace of God" he'd be there. In theory. Of course we haven't seen any of it, but the story seems to write itself.
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Oct 19, 2015 21:17
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Hakkesshu posted:Cage doesn't have much of a solo presence, at least in modern times. He was kind of a pet character for Bendis (who wrote Alias) and so he used him a lot, he became the leader of the New Avengers as you know, which was a decent book but since it isn't MAX it's obviously very PG and because it was one of the mainline books it got caught up in a lot of event nonsense, especially Civil War, so you'll have to wade through some business to get the complete story. There are neat moments though, like how Luke insists that the Avengers focus more on actual street crime instead of just cosmic bullshit, so he has them visiting crime-ridden neighbourhoods and such. Jessica Jones is also a side character here. Like most long-running Bendis books it eventually goes off the deep end and they start introducing wacky subplots like hiring Squirrel Girl to be their babysitter. There is a Power Man and Iron Fist series launching in the new year. It is probably the first time in a good, long while that a book featuring Luke Cage is actually titled Power Man.
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Oct 19, 2015 21:41
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Blazing Ownager posted:The license is cursed yet people hold onto it like it's the best thing ever. I don't even want Marvel to try making one, it'd just be nice to have Doom. It's not. The problems with each release were pretty clear: Corman-- no one up high cared so the production was cheap as hell and 90s movie tech wasn't up to a Fantastic Four movie even on huge budgets. 00s Fantastic Four-- Fox is relatively cheap, and stuck in that early 00s mode where they tried to strip out as much "weirdness" and "unadaptable" material as possible Trank-- again at Fox so the production was relatively cheap and Trank's approach (sidestepping all the production trouble) was dreary, ugly, and ultimately something no one really wanted. Really the two big problems are obvious: * Budget-- the Fantastic Four are explorers and need to be able to see a variety of Pop Art landscapes that really pop, and that's expensive. It doesn't help that three of their most famous discovered locales-- Atillan, Atlantis, and the Microverse can all be better served by other stand-alone franchises. * The Doom/Galactus problem-- the Fantastic Four's greatest villains are some form of massive cured ham. A core part of the appeal is how unabashedly goofy and stupid-looking they are. This used to be the exact same reason no one thought a solo "Thor" movie would fly even a decade ago. Cosplayers and video games and fan-art have proven that you can design versions of their classic looks that would "work" on-screen for like 20 years now, so the only reason people making these movies don't are because of Budget and because someone in charge of key decisions can't wrap their heads around a character having a stupid-yet-instantly-memorable base design and being made interesting via good writing, acting, staging, direction, sound design, special effects, and art design in no particular order. Doom being rooted in a weird Cold War milieu also seems to be a serious stumbling block, which is odd because I can't imagine who he'd offend or why a megalomaniac rich kid going full neckbeard with his family iconography is hard to make compelling especially in today's uber-neckbeard market. mind the walrus fucked around with this message at 22:05 on Oct 19, 2015 |
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Oct 19, 2015 22:02
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Fitting the original Fox Fantastic Four films into the "afraid to be a superhero film" group feels like revisionism. Outside of Cloud Galactus, the Fantastic Four movies were lighthearted, jokey, had costumes directly lifted from the comics (even Doom, who has basically nothing else in common), basically exactly what people say they would want out of an MCU FF film. The problem is that the writing is horrible, and nobody working on the films seemed to have realized that every single problem is directly caused by the Fantastic Four, even moreso than superhero standards. The first Fantastic Four film is my least favorite superhero movie I've ever sit through, because it feels like watching a bunch of douchebags. I know "how about they write a nonshit script?" seems like stating obvious, but there it is! edit: Also there was that whole messed up thing about Jessica Alba being told to "act whiter". mycot fucked around with this message at 00:47 on Oct 20, 2015 |
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Oct 20, 2015 00:42
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The basic problem is that they keep trying to make a fantastic four movie. Of all marvels well known properties the "family unit of science explorers with wise patriarch" is the one that has aged the worst. Its the same basic problem they had when tring to make an updated "lost in space". The original version looks goofy as hell so a straight adapation will look retro-gimmicky but the zeitgeist about space exploration has moved on so updating it doesnt really work if you want to have any meaningful link to the original. So much about the FF is rooted in 1960s cheesiness fro "the fantasticar" onwards. Their superhero costumes (the FF jumpsuits) arent visually interesting, the Thing and Human Torch are expensive effects if you want them done well for the whole movie, Sues powers are by definition not visually interesting and reeds... Well maybe someone will find a way to make stretching look cool. Probably not, but in an infinite universe there is that possibility. My big advice for anyone thinking of doing another adaptation of the FF would be; dont bother. If they have their heart set on it, then my next advice is dont do another loving origin story. The origin of the FF is one of their least interesting stories and is doofy as gently caress. Constantly trying to tie Dooms movie origin story to theirs doesnt help. Just have them already powered, story in media res, if you are DESPERATE to show their origin have it montaged over the opening credits like the Norton Hulk movie did. You do pretty much have to go with Doom as the villain, hes about their only interesting baddie with any general name recognition. Although if the recent movie hadnt soured everyone on the whole negative zone thing I guess you could do annihilus. Galactus/Silver Surfer would work in theory but its honestly not that great a movie story (eiither you go with the "ultimate nullifier" which isnt much of a final scene or you go with "the surfer is persuaded to turn on galactus" in which case the finale of the movie hangs on a character who isnt in the fantastic four). i dont know why they all feel the need to gently caress with Doom so much; Despot of a small country with diplomatic immunity (or the movie version of it) who may have weapons of mass destruction seems perfectly fine for a movie villain to me, but instead we get evil CEO or whatever the gently caress that mess in the new one was. His costume isnt the problem, its a green garment (really doesnt matter if is a tunic or robe or cloak) with iron-manish armour and mask.
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Oct 20, 2015 11:54
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yeah the Fantastic Four are lame by now, but holy poo poo a proper Doom could be the best multi-phase MCU villain. Eat poo poo Thanos.
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Oct 20, 2015 12:15
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mycot posted:Fitting the original Fox Fantastic Four films into the "afraid to be a superhero film" group feels like revisionism. Actually you'll note that I was reasonably specific in what I thought went wrong. It wasn't that the 04/07 version was afraid to be a superhero flick, it's that it was afraid to be a true-blue Fantastic Four flick and embrace what differentiated (and still differentiates) them from Spider-Man, the X-Men, and the Avengers. What differentiates them is weird, cheesy, and expensive even by Marvel standards which is saying a lot. SiKboy posted:The basic problem is that they keep trying to make a fantastic four movie. Of all marvels well known properties the "family unit of science explorers with wise patriarch" is the one that has aged the worst. Its the same basic problem they had when tring to make an updated "lost in space". The original version looks goofy as hell so a straight adapation will look retro-gimmicky but the zeitgeist about space exploration has moved on so updating it doesnt really work if you want to have any meaningful link to the original. So much about the FF is rooted in 1960s cheesiness fro "the fantasticar" onwards. Their superhero costumes (the FF jumpsuits) arent visually interesting, the Thing and Human Torch are expensive effects if you want them done well for the whole movie, Sues powers are by definition not visually interesting and reeds... Well maybe someone will find a way to make stretching look cool. Probably not, but in an infinite universe there is that possibility. I just don't buy this. I really don't. Kennedy-era optimism works perfectly well in connecting with modern audiences because it's about possibility and being able to still be surprised and thrilled by the unknown. All the last three FF movies did were showcase the horrifying danger of Doom, a Space Fart, and some ugly green lava planet. The characters are malleable enough archetypes that you can tackle Reed's chauvinist patriarch ways head-on as an arc that can dovetail nicely with Doom and/or Namor's own narcissistic stylings, or use the Thing's blatant anachronistic and limited nature as part of his further isolation (maybe he gets an image inducer or turns back to normal for a bit and remembers he was an outcast even before he became a rock monster), or embrace Sue coming into her own as someone who doesn't need no man to dictate her worth while grappling with the awesome power she has both with her powers and over Reed/the family unit. The Human Torch will always work as a character because douche teenagers spring eternal. These are not difficult characters for a screenwriter to bang out a half-decent story with, and any actor with charisma who isn't given a dogshit script should be able to make them dynamic in any old blue jumpsuit especially if they can embrace the cartoon factor. I mean for gently caress's sake the last two Star Trek films reused the boring-rear end TOS uniforms and those still managed to clean up. But like I said the problem is ultimately that the Fantastic Four are weird, cheesy, and to do them well is expensive, neither of which are words any commercial media enterprise likes to try and tackle given how insanely difficult it is working by formula as is.
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Oct 20, 2015 13:21
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Mo Ryan (one of Variety's TV critics) likes it. https://mobile.twitter.com/moryan/status/656233038934773761
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Oct 20, 2015 13:28
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The real problem with FF movies is they keep trying to do them as these complete checklist movies. Like they start with the idea that the need a scene and a mini-arc showing off each of the four's powers. And the use the same basic "they have to learn to use their powers together" general arc. Just starting with those two things you've set yourself up for a really mediocre movie at best. When you consider that 2/3 of FF movies have been origin stories that also shoe-horned in Dr. Doom, it's no wonder those were terrible. Rise of the Silver Surfer was also terrible, but there they were also working backwards, starting with scenes and concepts they wanted to show, rather than starting from a strong story. It's the same reason the Wolverine movies are garbage. They work backwards from Wolverine gets his powers, wolverine fights this guy, Wolverine gets amnesia. Wolverine trains in Japan, Wolverine fights the Silver Samurai and then try to write a plot around stringing these scenes together. That poo poo doesn't work.
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Oct 20, 2015 15:56
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This is why the last Hulk movie is great. Entire origin story wrapped up in the intro credits. Done and moving on. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LODtAFx0EcY
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Oct 20, 2015 16:27
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Snak posted:The real problem with FF movies is they keep trying to do them as these complete checklist movies. Like they start with the idea that the need a scene and a mini-arc showing off each of the four's powers. And the use the same basic "they have to learn to use their powers together" general arc. In Media Res during a Moleman attack. Use flashbacks and asides to bring people up to speed. Then do Doom stealing the Baxter Building.
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Oct 20, 2015 18:14
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I agree that FF doesn't need another origin story (two of them in ten years with the last one being so drat lovely) and if Marvel were to stick them into a crossover movie (like what Civil War is, not the big show that is Avengers) where they have a little room to stretch their character legs it would be the best way to bring them into the MCU. Of course, Fox won't give up those rights anytime soon and with the clock reset thanks to the 2015 film the rights will expire via apathy (Daredevil style) in time for Phase 4. That's the best case scenario. I feel the need to argue this but after GOTG proved you can have goofy space stuff AS LONG as the writing and acting are top notch I see no reason why Marvel couldn't pull off Galactus. Dr Doom is loving easy (dictator of a failed state, it can be pulled off easy) but Galactus could work if they get him in some Cosmic Marvel film like GOTG.
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Oct 20, 2015 19:52
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Latveria isn't a failed state though 
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Oct 20, 2015 19:59
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what does all this FF stuff have to do with the Netflix shows, exactly
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Oct 20, 2015 21:09
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Barry Convex posted:what does all this FF stuff have to do with the Netflix shows, exactly Luke Cage was a member of the Fantastic Four. And he's a main character in the Jessica Jones series.
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Oct 20, 2015 21:14
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Let me tell you a little something about Jessica Jones and Johnny Storm.
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Oct 20, 2015 21:28
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Do a Fantastic Four with Luke, Spidey, Crystal, and She-Hulk.
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Oct 20, 2015 21:28
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As much as people are clamoring for a Punisher or Moon-Knight show in phase two of the Netflix deal, I would absolutely love to see a She-Hulk one instead. It'd add a nice bit of levity to contrast Punisher or Moon-Knight and she already has a good setup for an episodic show given her job as a lawyer, specializing in meta-human cases once she becomes more comfortable with her powers. Bringing in Hercules as a comedic foil would just be the icing on the cake. A good Fantastic Four replacement team doesn't need two super-strong folks though, so either she or Cage should be swapped out for someone. I'd recommend Amadeus Cho, but the thought of a child actor in a regular show is not a good idea. No idea who else would be a good replacement for "intelligent person" off hand though. On the other hand, they could just do a Runaways tv show or something instead.
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Oct 20, 2015 23:24
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Humbug Scoolbus posted:In Media Res during a Moleman attack. Use flashbacks and asides to bring people up to speed. Then do Doom stealing the Baxter Building.
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Oct 21, 2015 00:38
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Do a Two Tower's remake involving Doom taking over the Baxter Building in Parallel with Steel Serpent taking over Rand Tower. Reed Richards is Gandalf, Sue Storm is Eowyn, Thing is gimli, Johnny Storm is Legolas, Iron Fist is Aragorn. Peter Parker is Frodo. It writes itself. No the actual plot points don't line up, but the character interactions are what make a movie. Extrapolate the plot from character motivations and desired outcomes. Obviously Thing would be tossing Human Torch and not the other way around. There've been like 6 X-Men movies, they lost their shot at putting the fast-ball special onscreen.
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Oct 21, 2015 01:49
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Snak posted:There've been like 6 X-Men movies, they lost their shot at putting the fast-ball special onscreen. http://marvel-movies.wikia.com/wiki/Peter_Rasputin posted:X-Men: The Last Stand
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Oct 21, 2015 02:50
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Just make a movie about that time Thing became a pirate.
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Oct 21, 2015 03:04
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Light Gun Man posted:Just make a movie about that time Thing became a pirate. You say that like it only happened once.
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Oct 21, 2015 03:08
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X-O posted:You say that like it only happened once. See, it even has sequels built right in.
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Oct 21, 2015 03:15
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Snak posted:Do a Two Tower's remake involving Doom taking over the Baxter Building in Parallel with Steel Serpent taking over Rand Tower. Do the entire movie from Doom's perspective as he tries to take over the Baxter Building. Basically, remake of The Raid but with superpowers.
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Oct 21, 2015 03:23
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Light Gun Man posted:See, it even has sequels built right in. The Time Travel Shenanigans of Ben Grimm is a show I would watch. 
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Oct 21, 2015 03:26
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Snak posted:The real problem with FF movies is they keep trying to do them as these complete checklist movies. Like they start with the idea that the need a scene and a mini-arc showing off each of the four's powers. And the use the same basic "they have to learn to use their powers together" general arc. Yes, that's exactly it. That's what I was kinda referring to when I said "douchebags faffing around" earlier. It also creates this dumb situation where the only problems the heroes resolve for the entire film are the one's they started themselves. It's like if the Human Torch saved people from a building he set on fire.
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Oct 21, 2015 03:31
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X-O posted:The Time Travel Shenanigans of Ben Grimm is a show I would watch. No fedora, 2/10.
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Oct 21, 2015 08:38
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aparmenideanmonad posted:<fast-ball special> Danger room doesn't count. I saw that movie, they didn't use it as part of the team actually overcoming an enemy, so I didn't count it. I was glad we got that, though.
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Oct 21, 2015 08:46
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Netflix gave us some key-art (Dutch article, but you don't need to understand Dutch to see the picture). http://www.geekster.be/primeur-allereerste-key-art-jessica-jones/
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Oct 21, 2015 12:49
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Pennfalath posted:Netflix gave us some key-art (Dutch article, but you don't need to understand Dutch to see the picture). http://www.geekster.be/primeur-allereerste-key-art-jessica-jones/ This is not a trailer 
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Oct 21, 2015 13:18
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New motion poster, trailer finally coming this Friday: https://twitter.com/jessicajones/status/656787097609572353
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Oct 21, 2015 13:27
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Barry Convex posted:New motion poster, trailer finally coming this Friday: I guess they won't keep that gorgeous song for the real opening credits.  Makes me sad...
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Oct 21, 2015 13:38
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tsob posted:As much as people are clamoring for a Punisher or Moon-Knight show in phase two of the Netflix deal, I would absolutely love to see a She-Hulk one instead. Season 3, Daredevil vs She-Hulk: 13 episodes of them in court, arguing about legal procedure.
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Oct 21, 2015 15:37
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PerniciousKnid posted:Season 3, Daredevil vs She-Hulk: 13 episodes of them in court, arguing about legal procedure. I would kill for this. But only if they get Richard Belzer to play the detective investigating the case.
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Oct 21, 2015 19:45
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PerniciousKnid posted:Season 3, Daredevil vs She-Hulk: 13 episodes of them in court, arguing about legal procedure. Season 4 is her adventuring in space, but every episode just focusing on a legal case she happens to fall in to along the way, culminating in the biggest case of her life against the Living Tribunal just so she can go around in season 5 calling herself a Space Lawyer.
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Oct 21, 2015 20:18
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