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Allarion
May 16, 2009

がんばルビ!

Panic! at Nabisco posted:

On the contrary, this is very much a classical mystery, so we probably have enough information to solve at least part of several of the mysteries already. They have been bombarding us with relevant information this episode. It's unlikely that, for example, the mail slot and its exact dimensions are just there for Nishinosono to amaze with her mental math.

Well where else would you put the arms and legs?

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Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



ViggyNash posted:

Oh of course. She was totally pupeteering his hand using her world class puppeteer skills. Good job, buddy!


But you have to confess it was a weird scene. He was told something as shocking as there has been a murder, and it was their special genius even, but he stays there sit down and still, just doing a hand gesture as acknowledgment. He definitively doesn't show surprise in his face. I don't know. The normal thing would be to get out of the helicopter to talk directly and ask what the hell is going on, even if only for one minute.

I think maybe he was already wounded in that moment? Something like that?


I also wonder if the video conference the protagonist had with the genius was real or fake. What if she was already dead at that moment, and the video footage and answers was a simulation done by their AI, which was created by her? Of course it depends of the technological level of the setting, and how much genius she was.

nielsm
Jun 1, 2009



We still have no idea what the inside of the room looks like, or what tools and robotic pieces might be available. It could be murder by AI, or suicide by robot.

Sakurazuka
Jan 24, 2004

NANI?

Gonna lol if it ends up being the last case from AA: Dual Destinies

AnoHito
May 8, 2014

The pilot does look kind of nervous, maybe someone's threatening him/holding him hostage?

Also cutting the limbs off seems pretty unnecessary and the reason given doesn't really make sense.

Allarion
May 16, 2009

がんばルビ!

AnoHito posted:

The pilot does look kind of nervous, maybe someone's threatening him/holding him hostage?

Also cutting the limbs off seems pretty unnecessary and the reason given doesn't really make sense.

At the moment, it basically means there's a definite murderer or 3rd party involved, since someone had to remove them. Motive-wise, it's interesting because for a planned murder, you'd usually want it to look like a suicide or accidental death to not raise suspicion, but in this case the culprit seems to want someone to be suspected.

Chas McGill
Oct 29, 2010

loves Fat Philippe
Thought episode 2 was garbage. The rich girl was really annoying, particularly in her idolisation of the prof.

I'll watch the next one since it seems like something actually happens, but my good impression from the first episode has been dented.

.Clash
Apr 10, 2009
Going to go with Magata was never in the room and is actually her "sister." She's surprised to see the girl when she gets out of the helicopter.
Also that is not how talking to people in helicopters works.

Sakurazuka
Jan 24, 2004

NANI?

Given all the talk about the younger sister looking older than the doctor, I'd be very surprised if it turned out that the person in the room was who she was supposed to be.

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!

Sakurazuka posted:

Given all the talk about the younger sister looking older than the doctor, I'd be very surprised if it turned out that the person in the room was who she was supposed to be.

Yeah, I'm feeling confident about my sibling swap theory. I'm not sure how that would help solve the mystery though. I suppose this establishes a motive, especially for the removal of the limbs (since it means there no fingerprints)? Like, maybe 'Magata' cracking under Moe's interrogation is what caused the murder.

Thinking about it, the theory that Red Magic was infected by a virus would work well with the point that Saikawa's lab was also infected prior to them setting off. Maybe the background to this is that Moe set off someone's alarm bells, they hacked Saikawa's system to dig for info, and then suddenly Saikawa and Moe's (totally coincidental, but suspiciously timed) visiting the island made them panic and think that our heroes were on to them, thus necessitating the murder.


Also, gently caress, avoid reddit like the plague on this. There's people posting novel spoilers, I managed to avoid reading any, but still, geez people.

Fangz fucked around with this message at 11:54 on Oct 23, 2015

Armor-Piercing
Sep 22, 2009

Nightly dance
of bleeding swords


A little bit :yikes: but maybe Magata had a child? There's that bit at the end with "It could be that creating your descendants is akin to imagining your own death" and needing to get rid of a part of herself, as she seduces the director. I don't know where to go from there even if that is the case though.

Davincie
Jul 7, 2008

she got killed by her own kid, who is now going on a rampage for revenge. PREDICTION THREE

ViggyNash
Oct 9, 2012

Turin Turambar posted:

But you have to confess it was a weird scene. He was told something as shocking as there has been a murder, and it was their special genius even, but he stays there sit down and still, just doing a hand gesture as acknowledgment. He definitively doesn't show surprise in his face. I don't know. The normal thing would be to get out of the helicopter to talk directly and ask what the hell is going on, even if only for one minute.

I think maybe he was already wounded in that moment? Something like that?


I also wonder if the video conference the protagonist had with the genius was real or fake. What if she was already dead at that moment, and the video footage and answers was a simulation done by their AI, which was created by her? Of course it depends of the technological level of the setting, and how much genius she was.


I'll concede that there was definitely something off there. I made the assumption initially that he's just a very pragmatic dude and the best expression he could have was a bit of sweat on his face. I'm going to stay with that assumption for now.

Phlogistic posted:

That's not to say that he was definitely alive when the helicopter landed, or even took off, with what we know at this point. For example, the 'director' who landed the helicopter could have been a fake, with the darkness helping to conceal the differences.

Edit: Alternatively, he was alive but being threatened when he landed - you can see what looks like sweat on his face.

If an impostor was flying the heli, then that means both the sister and a third individual are all involved. That seems less likely. he sister forcing the director to fly under duress is a better possibility, because it doesn't change the details much. However, why would she need to fly him there under duress if the whole point of the director going to pick her up was to bring her to the facility? It's not like he had a reason to not come since they couldn't get to him by radio.

I really think you guys are overthinking that scene.

A bit of speculation: The main reason to kill the director was to stop him getting off the island and alerting the police. If the helicopter ends up being sabotaged as well, that would confirm my theory. But I'll ask the same thing I asked in episode 2: Why the theatrics? Why chop off Magata's limbs and dress her up, and why stab the director through the neck with multiple swords/large knives, and leave them there? Assuming it's not spectacle for spectacle's sake, it's either a scare tactic to cause something else to happen, or it's symbolic somehow.

Phlogistic
Oct 22, 2007

Counterpoint: it is very, very difficult to overthink a locked-room mystery story.

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!

ViggyNash posted:


A bit of speculation: The main reason to kill the director was to stop him getting off the island and alerting the police. If the helicopter ends up being sabotaged as well, that would confirm my theory. But I'll ask the same thing I asked in episode 2: Why the theatrics? Why chop off Magata's limbs and dress her up, and why stab the director through the neck with multiple swords/large knives, and leave them there? Assuming it's not spectacle for spectacle's sake, it's either a scare tactic to cause something else to happen, or it's symbolic somehow.

My main suspect is still the sister. I think the explanation for why these things are the case is that it is to form the misleading impression that this was a symbolic or insane murder when the reasoning is actually cold and calculating. The director and Magata both had to die because they knew too much, Magata had to be dismembered to remove identifying fingerprint info, the director is killed in that way to suggest that the killer was already on the island when the sister arrived and so to prevent the false motive that the killer is trying to keep them from getting to the police.

Dan7el
Dec 7, 2008

I'm going by what I would consider pure motive here, and I've not seen this theory detailed in this thread yet (but I may have missed it).

I think the killer is the director's wife. Although, I'm not entirely sure exactly who Magata had an affair with. Seems to me it was the director, though, and not Moe's father.

The director's wife has the motive and I'm betting she has the means. She's likely lived at the facility since its inception and has had access to all the computer programming as well. Likewise, she'll probably end up being somewhat of a computer genius herself. It's possible she will have had help too. Some accomplice we haven't met yet.

ViggyNash
Oct 9, 2012
Is the director's wife even at the facility, or supposed to be? I don't remember any mention of her, but I could just have forgotten it.

My initial reaction is that's too easy an answer. This show is working very hard to not be a run of the mill mystery and that just seems too generic.


e: Goddamit I want episode 4 right now! :argh:

gimme the GOD DAMN candy
Jul 1, 2007

ViggyNash posted:

Is the director's wife even at the facility, or supposed to be? I don't remember any mention of her, but I could just have forgotten it.

My initial reaction is that's too easy an answer. This show is working very hard to not be a run of the mill mystery and that just seems too generic.


e: Goddamit I want episode 4 right now! :argh:

She already appeared in episode 3.

Kytrarewn
Jul 15, 2011

Solving mysteries in
Bb, F and D.

Dan7el posted:

I'm going by what I would consider pure motive here, and I've not seen this theory detailed in this thread yet (but I may have missed it).

I think the killer is the director's wife. Although, I'm not entirely sure exactly who Magata had an affair with. Seems to me it was the director, though, and not Moe's father.

The director's wife has the motive and I'm betting she has the means. She's likely lived at the facility since its inception and has had access to all the computer programming as well. Likewise, she'll probably end up being somewhat of a computer genius herself. It's possible she will have had help too. Some accomplice we haven't met yet.

That's my working theory at the moment, as well.

Although, Moe herself was acting mighty funny the whole time and if it weren't absolutely impossible (We know that Saikawa and Moe are the subjects of a long series of romantic mystery novels, and she wasn't around when the deed happened) absent a sort of Heavy Rain style "twist" (read: lie blatantly to the audience), I'd be suspicious of her.

ViggyNash
Oct 9, 2012

Serious Frolicking posted:

She already appeared in episode 3.

Oh. Right.

She seemed so unimportant that she didn't register.

Demicol
Nov 8, 2009

I think it's too early to try and theorize about the killer. There's not much information and barely any of the side characters have been developed.

I bet they are going to go into the room the next episode now that they know the killer isn't in there, which might reveal some clues.

Demicol fucked around with this message at 16:48 on Oct 25, 2015

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!

Demicol posted:

I think it's too early to try and theorize about the killer. There's not much information and barely any of the side characters have been developed.

I bet they are going to go into the room the next episode now that they know the killer isn't in there, which might reveal some clues.

It's NEVER TOO EARLY.

Dan7el
Dec 7, 2008

I'm assuming that we, the audience/reader, have all the information we essentially need at this point to solve the mystery. Could be that we don't. I know the "rules" for locked-room murders state that at some point we should. I searched for "locked room mystery rules" to see if there are any steps I could apply to solving this, but nothing concrete. Just, ideally, we work backward from the murder to the answer. Sort of like a maze working backward, I guess.

I'm just looking primarily at motive and opportunity at this point, which primarily leads to the suspect I suggested earlier.

It's likely something was mentioned in passing that is critical to the solutions. I like the continual flashbacks Moe has of her conversation with Magata. There might be clues among those conversations, or they might be red-herrings. I think they're all rather fishy, overall, though.

The sensei smokes like a chimney. What a cultural difference between Japan and the USA. I remember back in the early 80's people could still smoke in their offices, but now that's unthinkable (and I hated it as I never smoked but boy was it ever nasty and uncomfortable).

Also, I didn't know Moe is a legitimate Japanese female first name. This is the first time I've seen it used. Sakura, sure. No problems there. Even Nagisa. Both boys and girls, but Moe, this is my first. (Just an observation)

I don't find Moe very Moe, though.

AnoHito
May 8, 2014

Dan7el posted:

Also, I didn't know Moe is a legitimate Japanese female first name. This is the first time I've seen it used. Sakura, sure. No problems there. Even Nagisa. Both boys and girls, but Moe, this is my first. (Just an observation)

It's a normal name.

Paracelsus
Apr 6, 2009

bless this post ~kya

Dan7el posted:

The sensei smokes like a chimney. What a cultural difference between Japan and the USA. I remember back in the early 80's people could still smoke in their offices, but now that's unthinkable (and I hated it as I never smoked but boy was it ever nasty and uncomfortable).
I think that's not really specific to Japan, but more of a broadly Asian thing. In China having teeth stained by nicotine has been considered a sign of prosperity, at least for men.

Cipher Pol 9
Oct 9, 2006


Moe is a fine name but because of the way it's written vs the way it's pronounced I'll never not think of The Simpsons when I read it in the subtitles.

Alder
Sep 24, 2013

Has there ever been a mystery series w/o a locked room case? Just wondering since it's kinda a thing from all the series I've watched :v:

AnoHito
May 8, 2014

Alder posted:

Has there ever been a mystery series w/o a locked room case? Just wondering since it's kinda a thing from all the series I've watched :v:

I don't think I remember Hyouka having one

a kitten
Aug 5, 2006

AnoHito posted:

I don't think I remember Hyouka having one

The mystery in the film in the mystery about the ending of that film.

Kytrarewn
Jul 15, 2011

Solving mysteries in
Bb, F and D.

Demicol posted:

I think it's too early to try and theorize about the killer. There's not much information and barely any of the side characters have been developed.

I bet they are going to go into the room the next episode now that they know the killer isn't in there, which might reveal some clues.

I'm not confident that I am right, by any means. I just find it more fun to have a working theory against which I can measure any additional evidence or dialogue.

gimme the GOD DAMN candy
Jul 1, 2007
It is weird how the majority of the people there are complete nonentities. All the scientists and security guards are simply too dull to suspect of anything. It is also strange how no one seems to question why Magata was subjected to solitary confinement for 15 years after being found not guilty of murder. Like, all that is obviously to set up the locked room murder, but what was the justification for it? It wasn't like Magata was some superhuman killing machine.

Also, it seems terribly unlikely that the person Moe spoke to was ever in that room. Whether it was the "sister" or Magata who was locked in there, it was the other one who gave all those interviews. Personally, I think that the timing was deliberate but had nothing to do with the visitors to the island. Absolutely no one saw Magata until the supposed sister was old enough to pass for her on camera. Alternately, no one saw the sister until she was old enough to pass for Magata's corpse. I'm still not sure which of the two is dead and what the point of it all was, though.

AnoHito
May 8, 2014

Serious Frolicking posted:

It is weird how the majority of the people there are complete nonentities. All the scientists and security guards are simply too dull to suspect of anything. It is also strange how no one seems to question why Magata was subjected to solitary confinement for 15 years after being found not guilty of murder. Like, all that is obviously to set up the locked room murder, but what was the justification for it? It wasn't like Magata was some superhuman killing machine.

It seems like she just generally didn't want to see/talk to anyone. As in it was her own choice to lock herself in the room.

point of return
Aug 13, 2011

by exmarx
Correct me if I'm wrong, but she was found not guilty because she blamed it on a doll so they declared her unfit to stand trial. Still doesn't explain why she's in a locked room and not, you know, a mental hospital, but :shrug:

Phobophilia
Apr 26, 2008

by Hand Knit
sounds to me like some kind of backroom deal: she gets imprisoned, but still pumps out inventions for her handlers

Alder
Sep 24, 2013

point of return posted:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but she was found not guilty because she blamed it on a doll so they declared her unfit to stand trial. Still doesn't explain why she's in a locked room and not, you know, a mental hospital, but :shrug:

Not like there's a huge difference b/t the two places other than it being a lot nicer to live on a island :ghost:

Kytrarewn
Jul 15, 2011

Solving mysteries in
Bb, F and D.

AnoHito posted:

It seems like she just generally didn't want to see/talk to anyone. As in it was her own choice to lock herself in the room.

Remember the first episode and Saikawa's obsession with Buckminster Fuller's quote. "Everyone is born a genius, but becomes dumber over time", presumably due to the countless numbers of pointless interpersonal interactions to which they're subjected on a daily basis.

Only the young prodigy who managed to quarantine herself from the age of puberty has managed to maintain her intellectual lead over the rest of the world, and is just antisocial enough to be satisfied with that sort of life.

Sakurazuka
Jan 24, 2004

NANI?

Multiple personalities ehhhhhh..... Lots of information this episode, but I haven't a clue any more.

gimme the GOD DAMN candy
Jul 1, 2007

Sakurazuka posted:

Multiple personalities ehhhhhh..... Lots of information this episode, but I haven't a clue any more.

Sheesh, the second worst plot device after time travel.

Lestaki
Nov 6, 2009

Serious Frolicking posted:

Sheesh, the second worst plot device after time travel.

I can but hope that she's faking it as part of a pointless long con because bored genius girl. Basically pure denial on my part but yeah.

If we're doing this properly it may serve as foreshadowing for serious trauma in her past but it's hard to have faith it's going to be done properly.

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Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!
Enh, at least it isn't offered as a solution to anything. It's just another complication to the puzzle.

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