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Randarkman
Jul 18, 2011

Tomn posted:

I have to wonder about any society that actively decides NOT to live in a world of utopian abundance. Unless they mean "utopian abundance at the expense of the environment/other empires" or something.

Well, there's probably some major tech requirements (replicators and poo poo probably) for it and maybe pretty huge upkeep costs in terms of energy or whatever it is you use. That is if the basis for it is basically Star Trek.

I also imagine that that policies list is incomplete and that you might unlock more options as you go along and depending on government type.

VerdantSquire posted:

According to the screenshot, Human Ethics are xenophile and extreme individualist. Did the ancaps win in Stellaris's version of Humanity? :ohdear:

I imagine that humans being a preset species does not mean that they can't have their starting ethics customized and it is entirely possible that whoever took that screenshot did customize it.

Randarkman fucked around with this message at 19:12 on Oct 26, 2015

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Gwyrgyn Blood
Dec 17, 2002

DStecks posted:

Total War has done that at least since Medieval 2.

Good call. I want to say some of the Rot3K games have the same mechanic as well don't they? Probably could find a dozen other games that do as well. I'm generally a fan of the mechanic, and I like the sound of how it works in Stellaris so far.

Pharnakes posted:

Q1 2016 isn't it? I'm sure it'll be delayed 6 months to a year though.

That was the 'leaked' release date but they haven't said anything official about it from what I've seen. I hope you are right and that's still the targeted release, I'm maybe a bit pessimistic when it comes to video games getting delayed.

Struensee
Nov 9, 2011

Do we want utopian abundance? Mmmnah. Better keep the plebs in their place.

Democrazy
Oct 16, 2008

If you're not willing to lick the boot, then really why are you in politics lol? Everything is a cycle of just getting stomped on so why do you want to lose to it over and over, just submit like me, I'm very intelligent.
I am champing at the bit for HoI4, but that's hosed up considering I bought HoI3.

Are there going to be scenarios like there were in HoI2? (invasion of Poland, Ardennes offensive etc.) I think a big part of why HoI2 was so much easier to learn was because of those scenarios that allowed people to immediately dip their toes into combat and figure out how to play everything without having to jump right into a giant war. Unlike Europa Universalis or Crusader Kings, all of the obvious powers are big and there's rarely a chance to get involved in smaller wars before you're facing 50 divisions of Blitzkrieg in your face. So without any smaller scenarios, it's a lot easier for someone to get immediately overwhelmed and then decide this is not the game for them.

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

Delicious and Informative!
:3:
I assume the inclusion of 24 year old admirals means there's Anime-inspired technologies/ideologies too??

Slime Bro Helpdesk posted:

I'm glad to see Earth's in the game. But will they get Serbia right this time???
The guy with a Serbian/Slavic name is the most skilled, so there is a chance.

Enjoy
Apr 18, 2009
Looks like the ship prefixes after the commie coup changed, is that something both of the new games will have?

Gwyrgyn Blood
Dec 17, 2002

A Buttery Pastry posted:

I assume the inclusion of 24 year old admirals means there's Anime-inspired technologies/ideologies too??

The only question is which Anime will get the first total conversion mod? Legend of the Galactic Heroes? Macross?

Ms Adequate
Oct 30, 2011

Baby even when I'm dead and gone
You will always be my only one, my only one
When the night is calling
No matter who I become
You will always be my only one, my only one, my only one
When the night is calling



VerdantSquire posted:

According to the screenshot, Human Ethics are xenophile and extreme individualist. Did the ancaps win in Stellaris's version of Humanity? :ohdear:

Xenophile? XENOPHILE?

We'll see about THAT in the name of the Emperor!

fuck off Batman
Oct 14, 2013

Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah!


A Buttery Pastry posted:

The guy with a Serbian/Slavic name is the most skilled, so there is a chance.

Branislav Statnik sounds more like a Slovak. 4th Space Rome would have to wait for another hero.

Zohar
Jul 14, 2013

Good kitty
Both the Stellaris dev diary and the HoI4 Norway screenshots look amazing, i.m.h.o.

BravestOfTheLamps
Oct 12, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
Lipstick Apathy

VerdantSquire posted:

According to the screenshot, Human Ethics are xenophile and extreme individualist. Did the ancaps win in Stellaris's version of Humanity? :ohdear:

Liberal democracy, now and forever :shepicide:

Demiurge4
Aug 10, 2011

Utopian Abundance might not be quite the same as post-scarcity. I think Viceroy had some cool effects in that you can (and actually have to in order for a planet to be accepted as part of enlightened galactic society) implement immortality treatments. Once a planet reached high enough wealth it was basically considered that even the poorest member of the planets society had wealth beyond measure of entire, less enlightened, planets.

I'm more interested in what the more obvious :godwin: policies are that talk about genetic tailoring and selected lineages.

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!
I was kind of maybe considering picking up HoI4 even though I hated the previous HoI games, Stellaris has basically shot that down for good though. I'm way too hyped about potential space empires (and never playing humans because some people need to balance it out)

vyelkin
Jan 2, 2011
Personally I can't wait for all of the human race's engineering research to be headed up by a 21-year-old.

Ham Sandwiches
Jul 7, 2000

I'm ready for my Space Battleship Yamato anime mod that lets me take on the White Comet Empire but properly this time.

[edit]I guess it turns out Doogie Howser was a historical document that fell through a time warp.

Ham Sandwiches fucked around with this message at 19:51 on Oct 26, 2015

Tomn
Aug 23, 2007

And the angel said unto him
"Stop hitting yourself. Stop hitting yourself."
But lo he could not. For the angel was hitting him with his own hands

vyelkin posted:

Personally I can't wait for all of the human race's engineering research to be headed up by a 21-year-old.

Humanity now has a population so large that it can cherry-pick world-class geniuses capable of astonishing feats at a young age for leadership roles, as long as society is geared for identifying, training, and elevating these individuals - thus the bonus of technocratic societies is younger leaders and more time to enjoy their talents before they die from old age.

Except for the army, because who gives a gently caress about the army when you have laser ships? Nobody, that's who. THEY get to keep the crusty old farts who don't know anything but muddle by based on seniority.

The Sharmat
Sep 5, 2011

by Lowtax
Or maybe education is just more efficient in the An Cap utopia and there's memory downloads and crap for accelerated learning so you're actually ready to do your own work in your field before the age of 50.

Funky Valentine
Feb 26, 2014

Dojyaa~an

When's Gundam Stellaris mod.

Sindai
Jan 24, 2007
i want to achieve immortality through not dying
Paradox forums in top form today

quote:

I hope to God I can at least mod that out. If my space Nazis have "Dikembe" as one of the top generals, it'll ruin the whole RP for me. Also, judging from the first post, I see no European portraits, other than the single person on the Stellaris website. If I need to mod in European portraits on top of removing the relevant portraits, I will be very displeased.

quote:

I hope there are options to limit the leaders to specific sexes and races.
If i'm going for a Roman Empire in space it would be immersion breaking to have women and non whites leaders.

Randarkman
Jul 18, 2011

quote:

I hope to God I can at least mod that out. If my space Nazis have "Dikembe" as one of the top generals, it'll ruin the whole RP for me. Also, judging from the first post, I see no European portraits, other than the single person on the Stellaris website. If I need to mod in European portraits on top of removing the relevant portraits, I will be very displeased.

Oh, and before anyone accuses me of being racist or whatever, I'm going to do a lot of Human playthroughs. I'll only be playing Human. I'm definitely going to do all sorts, not just my space Nazis. Furthermore, even in the space Nazi playthrough it won't just be Europeans.

e: damnit

e2: Why would it be immersion breaking for a globe-spanning Roman empire, which I imagine would have existed for 3000 years to have non-White leaders? You don't even have to use your imagination to keep your immersion intact, one Roman emperor was literally known as "the Arab".

Randarkman fucked around with this message at 20:27 on Oct 26, 2015

communism bitch
Apr 24, 2009

Sindai posted:

Paradox forums in top form today

Literally just came to paste this. loving paradox plaza I swear to god.

Tomn
Aug 23, 2007

And the angel said unto him
"Stop hitting yourself. Stop hitting yourself."
But lo he could not. For the angel was hitting him with his own hands

Randarkman posted:

e: damnit

e2: Why would it be immersion breaking for a globe-spanning Roman empire, which I imagine would have existed for 2000 years to have non-White leaders? You don't even have to use your imagination to keep your immersion intact, one Roman emperor was literally known as "the Arab".

Back when Total War: Rome 2 was in the works, I remember there was one guy who complained endlessly than the Romans in the previews were insufficiently white and that it was racist (against Italians) to depict them with a tan.

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

Delicious and Informative!
:3:

Tomn posted:

Back when Total War: Rome 2 was in the works, I remember there was one guy who complained endlessly than the Romans in the previews were insufficiently white and that it was racist (against Italians) to depict them with a tan.
Which is pretty funny, since the only reason there are white Italians today is because of the Germanic invasions that ended the Roman Empire.

Randarkman
Jul 18, 2011

Tomn posted:

Back when Total War: Rome 2 was in the works, I remember there was one guy who complained endlessly than the Romans in the previews were insufficiently white and that it was racist (against Italians) to depict them with a tan.

It's common knowledge that today's Italians and Greeks look nothing like their ancient ancestors as their blood has been muddied by Arabs and Turks. In Caesar's time the Romans, a nordic people originally, were white as the driven snow.

Westminster System
Jul 4, 2009
I did think that character selection was a little too diverse but in the wrong way - I realised there's more black people than even vaguely Asians.

Randarkman
Jul 18, 2011

Westminster System posted:

I did think that character selection was a little too diverse but in the wrong way - I realised there's more black people than even vaguely Asians.

Not that wrong necessarily. Population experts estimate that Africa will almost rival Asia in population by the 22nd or 23rd century I think. Though there should be more Asians, especially vague ones.

Westminster System
Jul 4, 2009
Vague Asians like April are the best.

Kulkasha
Jan 15, 2010

But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Likchenpa.

A Buttery Pastry posted:

Which is pretty funny, since the only reason there are white Italians today is because of the Germanic invasions that ended the Roman Empire.
You forget Cisalpine Gaul, now known as Northern Italy, which had that name for a reason. It's more likely that Rome was much more ethnically diverse than we mentally picture it.

UrbicaMortis
Feb 16, 2012

Hmm, how shall I post today?

So what exactly are POPs? Is it a representation of a specific group in your empire? Does this mean that if you conquered a race of insect pacifists, there would be attempts to install governors that are chill peaceful antmen?

Randarkman
Jul 18, 2011

Kulkasha posted:

It's more likely that Rome was much more ethnically diverse than we mentally picture it.

Which, due to the way we cast people for shows and movies set in ancient times, is a bunch of British people.

Westminster System
Jul 4, 2009
Isn't the idea that "Romans" were literally only the people from Rome as far as Rome itself was concerned, it was just really liberal in its application of whom it called Roman Citizens.

Tomn
Aug 23, 2007

And the angel said unto him
"Stop hitting yourself. Stop hitting yourself."
But lo he could not. For the angel was hitting him with his own hands
I would just like to note that there is now a real possibility that Paradox has someone who was paid, if only for a few minutes, to work out how to weigh an algorithm to distribute ethnicities in Stellaris.

AAAAA! Real Muenster
Jul 12, 2008

My QB is also named Bort

I must be in the minority when it comes to Stellaris. I love Paradox and am going to follow it but I keep seeing things that are turn-offs to me.

devblog posted:

Most leader types are recruited using Influence (a type of diplomatic "currency" in the game) and there is a cap on the total number of leaders you can employ, so you will need to weigh your need for Admirals against that for competent Governors, etc. Although all leaders tend to gain experience and become more accomplished over time, they do not live forever. The day will come when they perish and will need to be replaced…
The bolded bothers me and the bolded italicized scares me. Needing to juggle leaders and having opportunity cost for having governors or admirals feels like an outdated train of thought to me. When in history has someone said "well the Pacific fleet can have an admiral OR we can put a governor in the Phillipines, but not both"?!?

Randarkman
Jul 18, 2011

Westminster System posted:

Isn't the idea that "Romans" were literally only the people from Rome as far as Rome itself was concerned, it was just really liberal in its application of whom it called Roman Citizens.

Free immigrants and children of freed slaves in the city of Rome regularly became citizens during the Republican era, sometime later this was extended to all free men in Italy. Then under the Empire it was extended to every free man in the Empire. Over time Roman simply came to mean someone who is a subject of the Emperor and is a Christian pretty much.

Gwyrgyn Blood
Dec 17, 2002

Bort Bortles posted:

The bolded bothers me and the bolded italicized scares me. Needing to juggle leaders and having opportunity cost for having governors or admirals feels like an outdated train of thought to me. When in history has someone said "well the Pacific fleet can have an admiral OR we can put a governor in the Phillipines, but not both"?!?

It's a video game, I think you can probably assume it's an abstraction for the sake of play-ability. Limitations on how many Characters you can have leads to more decision making and less micromanagement.

I don't know if you've ever played Dominions 4 or not, but I'd use that as an example of why unlimited numbers of leaders is potentially a horrifying thing for a 4x.

Tomn
Aug 23, 2007

And the angel said unto him
"Stop hitting yourself. Stop hitting yourself."
But lo he could not. For the angel was hitting him with his own hands

Bort Bortles posted:

I must be in the minority when it comes to Stellaris. I love Paradox and am going to follow it but I keep seeing things that are turn-offs to me.

The bolded bothers me and the bolded italicized scares me. Needing to juggle leaders and having opportunity cost for having governors or admirals feels like an outdated train of thought to me. When in history has someone said "well the Pacific fleet can have an admiral OR we can put a governor in the Phillipines, but not both"?!?

For an in-game justification, while there's no shortage of people who can fill any given position, there IS a limited pool of top-class talent and it's possible to come up with scenarios where the best and the brightest gravitate to, say, the Navy and the civilian sector while the Army gets the shaft. Possibly the leaders in Stellaris represent the particularly outstanding folks at the top without bothering to represent all the other guys who are competent but who won't really make headlines.

Demiurge4
Aug 10, 2011

UrbicaMortis posted:

So what exactly are POPs? Is it a representation of a specific group in your empire? Does this mean that if you conquered a race of insect pacifists, there would be attempts to install governors that are chill peaceful antmen?

In the Victoria games a POP is a class group of varying sizes that inhabit a province. I think each POP could grow to 10k size before starting a new one and each POP can have its own religion and political stances. So one province might be uniformly christian where you have craftsmen, farmers and others. While another province might take in a lot of immigrants and have different religious and political leanings within the same POP type. These POPs can promote or devolve depending on whether they can afford their basic needs and luxury goods (poor strata consumed booze and canned food as a basic, rich people take in luxury furniture and cigars as a luxury). If you have no political freedoms your immigrant protestants will get dissatisfied. POPs are awesome.

Kulkasha
Jan 15, 2010

But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Likchenpa.

Westminster System posted:

Isn't the idea that "Romans" were literally only the people from Rome as far as Rome itself was concerned, it was just really liberal in its application of whom it called Roman Citizens.
The status of Roman Citizenship during the later Republican Era was so controversial that it led to a massive civil war between Rome and the various Italian Allies. If you were a blueblood Patrician, the poorer residents of Rome barely counted as Roman. Gaius Marius and Pompeius Magnus were both derided for being non-Roman, despite being from modern Arpino in Lazio and the modern Marche region, respectively, which is :psyduck: from a modern perspective.

OddObserver
Apr 3, 2009

Gwyrgyn Blood posted:



I don't know if you've ever played Dominions 4 or not, but I'd use that as an example of why unlimited numbers of leaders is potentially a horrifying thing for a 4x.

Don't need to go to a different studio for an example --- the generals list in Viki 2 is quite a mess, too.

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Demiurge4
Aug 10, 2011

Eh, you can abstract the leaders as really special individuals with superior skills and just say that every other planetary government is staffed by bored wage slaves. When the Pegasus Region becomes the cultural center of my Empire I want to put a cool dude in charge of it.

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