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thewireguy
Jul 2, 2013

Verisimilidude posted:

Who do you study with?

Atlanta freifetcher. (sp)? It is pretty fun, but I turned 40 in May and have been sore ever since, trying to keep up with people half my age... I don't want to get fat and lazy, but have no desire to compete, just stay active.

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Rabhadh
Aug 26, 2007
I'm in awe of these guys, I haven't been able to make it to a class recently due to conflicting timetables but I've been doing any solo drills I can to try and stay sharp (hah)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpR-eGN_8_o

Verisimilidude
Dec 20, 2006

Strike quick and hurry at him,
not caring to hit or miss.
So that you dishonor him before the judges



Here's a sweet demo of rapier and dagger fencing

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=83_KhD5YmdI&feature=youtu.be

curious lump
Sep 13, 2014

by zen death robot

That guy in the lighter grey is pretty bad. Dropping his guard on a recover, not taking advantage of an easily controllable guard, getting too close (although they both had a problem with that), and not maintaining control of their blade. And they both had a tendency to lunge with the body instead of their arm. Also, they don't take advantage of their opponent's obvious vulnerability when they over commit then recover. The more I re-watch it, the more problems I find.

e: and the 1-2 pump. lmao

Siivola
Dec 23, 2012

curious lump posted:

The more I re-watch it, the more problems I find.
Imagine how they must feel, looking at the same things. :v:

Finally get the last steps of our school's "syllabus form" down yesterday. It's a solo form (kata, if you prefer) that includes the majority of our longsword drills and acts as a sort of a, well, table of contents. It's kind of a weird feeling to look at the thing, it makes me simultaneously go "I'm so bad at all these things" and "wait, that's all of it?"

Do you guys use solo drills in your practise?

curious lump
Sep 13, 2014

by zen death robot

Siivola posted:


Do you guys use solo drills in your practise?

My rapier class uses a few of them, mostly to practice moving from one position to another.

Siivola
Dec 23, 2012

Got the go-ahead to join the advanced class on Mondays. :toot:

Since it'll be the first Monday of the month, my first advanced class will be a freeplay night. Yikes.

Dzurlord
Nov 5, 2011
Fabris resources! Anyone know of any online?

A while ago, I lucked into a dirt cheap copy of Tom Leoni's translation of Fabris and I'm happily working my way through it and integrating it all into my fencing. There seems to be a lack of folks online who really work his system, though. The forums on Tom's website seem pretty much dead, so I figured I'd ask here.

tirinal
Feb 5, 2007

Dzurlord posted:

Fabris resources! Anyone know of any online?

A while ago, I lucked into a dirt cheap copy of Tom Leoni's translation of Fabris and I'm happily working my way through it and integrating it all into my fencing. There seems to be a lack of folks online who really work his system, though. The forums on Tom's website seem pretty much dead, so I figured I'd ask here.

I hate you. You have no idea how long I've been trying to find a copy.

Dzurlord
Nov 5, 2011

tirinal posted:

I hate you. You have no idea how long I've been trying to find a copy.

Someone was just getting rid of some stuff they didn't use anymore. A couple knee cops, demi gauntlets... and that book. $40 for it. I grabbed it so fast and it's never left my house since. A friend of mine scored a copy from Ebay; someone was selling a bunch of rapier manuals, and included that as well. Maybe another copy will turn up there?

Word from Tom is that he's trying to get that version re-released (I think there's an issue getting ahold of the print files or something?) and he's actively working on a second edition - with much better plates, too! He'll be taking scans from his personal copy of Fabris' work, so they should be much clearer.

No idea when that'll be done, but hopefully soon? It'll probably end up being published through Freelance Academy Press.

powertoiletduck
Feb 19, 2004

dance dance dance

Crazy Achmed posted:

Awesome! Do you get expenses paid for that stuff or are you there in your own steam?

Sorry, missed this question. Yep, after we are selected by the FIE the competition organisers pay for flights, 3 meals a day and accomodation whilst we are at the competition. Sometimes we share a twin room with another referee but more and more they find us single rooms which is greatly appreciated. On top of that we get €80 (~$100) a day, including travel days, that cover all other incidentals, bar bills, and a bit of pocket money.

BirdOfPlay
Feb 19, 2012

THUNDERDOME LOSER

powertoiletduck posted:

Sorry, missed this question. Yep, after we are selected by the FIE the competition organisers pay for flights, 3 meals a day and accomodation whilst we are at the competition. Sometimes we share a twin room with another referee but more and more they find us single rooms which is greatly appreciated. On top of that we get €80 (~$100) a day, including travel days, that cover all other incidentals, bar bills, and a bit of pocket money.

Are you out at San Jose or is foil not your bag?

For those not in the know, San Jose is hosting a Foil World Cup as we speak. Unfortunately, they don't have any live feeds up, but videos should be on the FIE's channel next week eventually. If you really need to know what's going on, USFA is streaming results here. It looks like they're still just starting the DE's in Round #2.

powertoiletduck
Feb 19, 2004

dance dance dance
Got my international licences in foil and epee but currently only on the international epee circuit (doing Berne and Doha in the first half of the season, don't know about after Christmas). Will be following San Jose closely.

Dzurlord
Nov 5, 2011

Dzurlord posted:

Word from Tom is that he's trying to get that version re-released (I think there's an issue getting ahold of the print files or something?) and he's actively working on a second edition - with much better plates, too! He'll be taking scans from his personal copy of Fabris' work, so they should be much clearer.

No idea when that'll be done, but hopefully soon? It'll probably end up being published through Freelance Academy Press.

Quoting myself but according to Greg Mele, the guy behind Freelance Academy Press, Tom Leoni is looking to have a second edition of his Fabris translation out in the first half of 2016, and they should have a precise date by the end of this year.

Our long dark nightmare of Lack Of Fabris will be over.

Verisimilidude
Dec 20, 2006

Strike quick and hurry at him,
not caring to hit or miss.
So that you dishonor him before the judges



Here's a documentary someone made about HEMA if you're into that kinda thing

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mmTi-NGQNh8

dupersaurus
Aug 1, 2012

Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'
Black carding all epee fencers: great idea or best idea ever?

Ravenfood
Nov 4, 2011

dupersaurus posted:

Black carding all epee fencers: great idea or best idea ever?
Worst, I fence epee.

Black card half the field at random so NACs stop fencing rounds of 256 after the cutoff.

BirdOfPlay
Feb 19, 2012

THUNDERDOME LOSER

Ravenfood posted:

Black card half the field at random so NACs stop fencing rounds of 256 after the cutoff.

Shrinking NAC's are a vast USFA conspiracy and a bad thing.
- F.net posters

dupersaurus
Aug 1, 2012

Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

Ravenfood posted:

Worst, I fence epee.

Black card half the field at random so NACs stop fencing rounds of 256 after the cutoff.

Did you not hear about the proposed FIE changes to non-combativity? Yellow card on the first one in a bout, black card both fencers on the second.

BirdOfPlay posted:

Shrinking NAC's are a vast USFA conspiracy and a bad thing.
- F.net posters

It's been a beautiful couple of weeks for watching f.net. Between NC and Imboden v. Aspermonte, jumping in saber and Tim Moorehouse, so many chances of terrible opinions to be aired.

Ravenfood
Nov 4, 2011
I did not. Uh. Huh. Well, that's dumb as gently caress.

dupersaurus
Aug 1, 2012

Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'
IOC allegedly said to the FIE that we're out of the Olympics if noncombarivity happens again

Crazy Achmed
Mar 13, 2001

Shiiiiit. I can see where they're coming from with carding for noncombativity, drat good idea so long as it's not applied too heavy-handedly.

I'm no epeeist, I just muck about with one sometimes because it's fun, but I did convert a sabreur a while back through just playing aggressive and not giving any time for the bout to slow down. His comment was something like "holy poo poo, I never knew epee could actually be fun!"

I wish I was good enough to get into reffing, but I have a long way to go if I want to try that.

dupersaurus
Aug 1, 2012

Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'
Getting into reffing via epee wouldn't be terrible if you know epee. Just need to know all the ways you can annul a touch, and judge strip position and toe touches (and don't fall asleep doing it)

BirdOfPlay
Feb 19, 2012

THUNDERDOME LOSER

dupersaurus posted:

IOC allegedly said to the FIE that we're out of the Olympics if noncombarivity happens again

I've heard that, too, but does anyone have an actual source? Or is this just another hobby horse of the new FIE president (a la timing changes in sabre)? It just seems more than a little over the top. To be fair if fencing left the Olympics, it would be the death of the sport. While I would like to say it wouldn't happen, the IOC still only gives us 10 medals for 12 events (they're misogynists).

I really didn't think noncombativity was that big of a thing? During the Pan Am's in Toronto, there was this team match between Cuba and Venezuela that ended 2-3, but that seems to be hardly the norm.

Crazy Achmed posted:

I wish I was good enough to get into reffing, but I have a long way to go if I want to try that.

Everyone's poo poo at reffing when they start. Hell, if you're not going to NAC's, you're probably poo poo at reffing (in the general case). I say this as someone that goes to NAC's and is still poo poo at reffing.

So, we've cast aside those silly reasons not to ref, what are your real hang ups? Can't see actions? Can't see where hits are being made? I can't teach you how to ref via a comedy forum, but I can get you started down that path if you are at all interested. And if you're in my division, I'm begging you to get started. I'm tired of being the only one.

dupersaurus
Aug 1, 2012

Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'
Presumably the thing in London with the Korean woman didn't help.

The conspiracy is that it's a television decision, and to be fair, watching two fencers out of distance for fifteen seconds or not hitting for each other for approx one minute is pretty boring. Although really the problem is that it's occasionally a legit strategy at times.

I did kinda like the idea of someone from fnet to let the fencers just agree to go straight into the priority minute. It's still kinda lovely, but it's at least honest.

Ravenfood
Nov 4, 2011
I'm bad at preregistration deadlines. Got the NAC, missed the ROC in the same city and I'm sure as hell not paying $225 for an A2 ROC. :suicide:

And yeah, going straight to the priority minute is far better than black cards. Anything is better than black cards.

BirdOfPlay
Feb 19, 2012

THUNDERDOME LOSER
I, uhh, still don't buy it as a thing that will happen. This almost makes me want to work Kansas City just to waste a night drinking whiskey and learning what the inside scope is.

Also, Shin A-Lam didn't involve noncombativity if I recall?

BirdOfPlay fucked around with this message at 06:43 on Oct 27, 2015

Crazy Achmed
Mar 13, 2001

There's an interesting analysis of the end of that match somewhere in the web that, if I remember correctly, suggests that Shin was not backing up enough at the reset after each touch, which actually made her more susceptible to getting fleched. I think that was the guy's reasoning, anyway.
http://www.blog.cadnauseam.com/2012/08/22/olympic-fencing-mythbusting-the-shin-v-heidemann-controversy/
I think this might have already been posted here? Sorry if it's a repeat.

At any rate, the timer getting accidentally set to zero, and the display not being able to show fractions of a second in a sport as quick as fencing was a debacle, and I hope it gets fixed.

As for me, I'm a bit slow and sometimes have trouble recognising more complex actions - at least reffing foil and sabre, anyway. Epee would hopefully be easier from that point of view, I hope... The other thing, though, is more perception and politics: I don't pretend to be good enough to compete on a serious level despite having fenced for a long time, high school kids will wreck my poo poo. I get the feeling that I won't be taken seriously unless I pull finger and improve my own fencing a lot first.

Crazy Achmed fucked around with this message at 12:23 on Oct 27, 2015

dupersaurus
Aug 1, 2012

Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'
Yeah I forgot they went into the sudden death last minute, not a NC priority minute. Either way, epee :argh:

Is there really a way to "solve" NC without drastically changing the weapon? It is a perfectly logical way to fence a bout once you've got a lead; you're there to win, not to put on a good show. Not that a major rule change is something that should never happen, but you need more than ten months lead time to do it. Going nuclear with black cards may actually be the safest thing to do, then seriously study it for the next quad.

Crazy Achmed posted:

As for me, I'm a bit slow and sometimes have trouble recognising more complex actions - at least reffing foil and sabre, anyway. Epee would hopefully be easier from that point of view, I hope... The other thing, though, is more perception and politics: I don't pretend to be good enough to compete on a serious level despite having fenced for a long time, high school kids will wreck my poo poo. I get the feeling that I won't be taken seriously unless I pull finger and improve my own fencing a lot first.

Just like a good coach doesn't have to be a good fencer, neither does a good ref. Strip experience might help you understand the flow of actions, but reffing is a skill in itself, and the best way to get better at it is to do it. Watch others ref and figure out why they're calling what they are, ref all you can at practice, break everything down (Who attacked first? Was there a parry? Was there a repost? etc.), always make a call and accept the grief if the fencers disagree, and if you really don't know, ask the guys on the strip what they think happened.

And read the rule book.

Everybody should read the rulebook.

BirdOfPlay
Feb 19, 2012

THUNDERDOME LOSER

Crazy Achmed posted:

As for me, I'm a bit slow and sometimes have trouble recognising more complex actions - at least reffing foil and sabre, anyway. Epee would hopefully be easier from that point of view, I hope... The other thing, though, is more perception and politics: I don't pretend to be good enough to compete on a serious level despite having fenced for a long time, high school kids will wreck my poo poo. I get the feeling that I won't be taken seriously unless I pull finger and improve my own fencing a lot first.

I have never had a rating as a fencer. I have a 5 in epee, a 6 or 5 in foil, and a 6 in sabre.

Honestly, Dupe and Nike have the best advice, just do it. Start with the weapon you know and go from there. Epee isn't exactly fun to do at the club, because not a lot will happen. Foil and sabre would be the way to go in that regard. Recognizing what is an attack is 80% of the right of way weapons.

I would suggest waiting until you get comfortable with reffing before attending a seminar.

Siivola
Dec 23, 2012

Hey, I've been thinking I should maybe eventually stop mooching equipment off my club, so I guess I'm in the market for a fencing mask. I do historical stuff so it doesn't have to be electrical, but the mesh should withstand the odd friendly knock with a blunt instrument. I'm sort of looking at the Leon Paul X-Change line because the padding looks comfy and, uh, it comes in pink to match my trainers. Do you guys have any experiences with that one, or other recommendations?

dupersaurus
Aug 1, 2012

Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'
You don't need x-change if you don't need to change bibs, but definitely go for the cheap contour fit, it's rad.

Verisimilidude
Dec 20, 2006

Strike quick and hurry at him,
not caring to hit or miss.
So that you dishonor him before the judges



Siivola posted:

Hey, I've been thinking I should maybe eventually stop mooching equipment off my club, so I guess I'm in the market for a fencing mask. I do historical stuff so it doesn't have to be electrical, but the mesh should withstand the odd friendly knock with a blunt instrument. I'm sort of looking at the Leon Paul X-Change line because the padding looks comfy and, uh, it comes in pink to match my trainers. Do you guys have any experiences with that one, or other recommendations?

Leon Paul masks are comfortable and light but from seeing them used in historical fencing they have a tendency to cave in. They're not really made for the type of impact you might see in historical fencing, and my teacher has been known to receive his share of forehead scrapes from a thrust to the face. We bought him a PBT mask and separate back of the head protection.

I would suggest PBT or even Absolute Force. AF isn't the best but it's certainly inexpensive and durable.

Crazy Achmed
Mar 13, 2001

I'm a bit of an uhlmann fan myself, but unless you can find something specifically made for historical rather than sport fencing, it'd probably be a good idea to get a 1600N-rated mask for the added protection. I've tried a lot of different makes of mask (i.e. a motley assortment of club gear over the years before I got my own) and don't think I've come across a geniunely uncomfortable mask yet, unless it was blatantly the wrong size.

Come to think of it, does anyone do an extra-heavy mesh for historical? Taking a thrust to the face with anything heavier than an epee blade sounds downright loving scary to me.

dupersaurus
Aug 1, 2012

Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'
LP has a HEMA range, but I don't know if it's anything more than their FIE stuff painted black

Verisimilidude
Dec 20, 2006

Strike quick and hurry at him,
not caring to hit or miss.
So that you dishonor him before the judges



Crazy Achmed posted:

I'm a bit of an uhlmann fan myself, but unless you can find something specifically made for historical rather than sport fencing, it'd probably be a good idea to get a 1600N-rated mask for the added protection. I've tried a lot of different makes of mask (i.e. a motley assortment of club gear over the years before I got my own) and don't think I've come across a geniunely uncomfortable mask yet, unless it was blatantly the wrong size.

Come to think of it, does anyone do an extra-heavy mesh for historical? Taking a thrust to the face with anything heavier than an epee blade sounds downright loving scary to me.

The historical fencing masks I've seen from PBT and AF have stronger meshes than the sport fencing alternatives. There are also some special historical fencing masks that I think look pretty loving rad, they're just expensive as gently caress and not necessarily historical.

http://www.thatguysproducts.com/masks.html

Siivola
Dec 23, 2012

Our teacher and some of the seniors have those masks, they're apparently the bee's knees.

Leon Paul's apparently developing a stronger HEMA-specific mask, but it's not available yet. Also probably doesn't come in pink. :( There are also a couple of manufacturers that produce proper steel helmets with mesh visors for historical fencers. Aside from those, I don't know any sellers that make reinforced gear, most of the masks seem to be just black coaching masks. I can't find any mention of AF or PBT using stronger mesh, for instance.

We've got a number of LP contour fit loaners at our salle, they really are pretty rad. We apparently train less hard than Verisimilidude's club (who, granted, seem to do a lot more freeplay than "once a month" like us) since I haven't seen any cave-ins. Except for the cautionary example, that has been purposefully beaten shapeless to remind people the masks are not helmets. :v:

One issue I'm having with the loaners is that my head seems to be in the large end of size small, which means that all our loaners wobble a bit. Are mask sizes at all consistent across brands?

dupersaurus
Aug 1, 2012

Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

Siivola posted:

Leon Paul's apparently developing a stronger HEMA-specific mask, but it's not available yet. Also probably doesn't come in pink. :(

Spray painting your mask is a well-established tradition.

Siivola posted:

One issue I'm having with the loaners is that my head seems to be in the large end of size small, which means that all our loaners wobble a bit. Are mask sizes at all consistent across brands?

Nope. AF runs bigger than LP. Can't speak for others.

Siivola
Dec 23, 2012

Haha. Ha. Heh. Screw masks, I just ordered my first sword. It cost way too much, yet I somehow can't think of any convincing reason why this was a terrible idea. :shepspends:

(I need want a sidesword and a Finnish fencing store just happened to have Darkwood Armory parts on sale...)

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Crazy Achmed
Mar 13, 2001

Really, it's not a bad idea since weapons are essentially a consumable - blades only last so long. Masks aren't easily cleanable, so I can see why that would be high up your list too...

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