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Amarcarts posted:see you in the 'ileus
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Nov 9, 2015 12:32
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Cats LOVE Cigars! posted:Star citizen is like a lasagna except it's promised to be 20 layers and sentient and will give you blow jobs and provide companionship and provide everything missing in your life. Also the lasagna makers spent all your money on the first layer and just realized they used tainted ground beef and now this has to be painstakingly removed from the sauce piece by piece. Also other lasagna chefs are warning people that a 20 layer lasagna would collapse under its own weight and its simply impossible no matter how much money you throw at it. ickna posted:it's worth it at the current price imo With limited time on my hands for gaming these days, which would you recommend? Breetai fucked around with this message at 12:39 on Nov 9, 2015 |
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Nov 9, 2015 12:36
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huh seems more chill in here now, anything fun happen while i was out playing "real world"?
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Nov 9, 2015 13:14
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Breetai posted:Star citizen is like a lasagna. Rebel Galaxy for sure, then. It's casual enough that you can pick it up for 20-30 mins at a time whenever, but with enough complexity that there is easily 40 hours of game play in it just following the main story. Also the upgrades buy and resell at the same price so you can play around with different load outs easily to find your play style.
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Nov 9, 2015 13:18
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I have more playtime in SC than in Sword of the stars 2 or Age o Wonder 3, which both cost me 5 more dollars than SC did. So SC has delivered more than some big titles have, how can we complain really?
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Nov 9, 2015 13:38
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G0RF posted:Never forget. So CIG finally emailed me back. Somehow all of my gifting amounts exceed the amount spent on the account so I don't rate a refund. Store credit doesn't count as refundable stuff and they didn't include items bought through the Voyager store. I know LTI Bounty Hunter packages weren't $120 (Which they cited in the email back) so I'm going to sit down tonight and run the numbers myself before I fire off a reply disputing their shoddy math and pick-and-choose method for deciding what's refundable. Also pushing the paypal dispute up to an investigation. What a lovely day.
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Nov 9, 2015 13:47
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That sounds incredibly scammy. How much do they owe you in total?
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Nov 9, 2015 13:56
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OhDearGodNo posted:That graph is also completely wrong. For example Fallout 4, GTA V, etc didn't began after the previous iteration. You're wrong on both Fallout 4 and GTA V. You can read about FO4's development here: http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2015/11/06/the-making-of-fallout-4.aspx?PostPageIndex=1
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Nov 9, 2015 13:59
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CrazyLoon posted:Is the black supposed to symbolize their inner depression, that they try to stave off by buying spaceship .jpegs? It's to match the Centurion card: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centurion_Card
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Nov 9, 2015 14:03
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Hopper posted:That sounds incredibly scammy. How much do they owe you in total? I haven't actually done the math on what's still in the account but it's just a Redeemer and some VD store items, mostly hangar flair. I was expecting less than $400. The account is listed at $740 spent but by their math I've gifted/received/melted over $780 worth of stuff so nothing is refundable. I mean, if you melt something for store credit, store credit is still cash monies. (Which is what the Redeemer was bought with, using melted funds from ships I had purchased, not been gifted) The whole reason it comes off as sketchy as gently caress to me is because I bought my best friend a Bounty Hunter package back in early late 2012 early 2013 and that's all that I bought him. Yet it shows the bounty hunter package as being worth $120 (They were $65) and then a separate "gifted item" with no name and only a transaction number valued at $40. So there's easily $100 right there that they're misrepresenting. Like I said, I'll do the math when I get home tonight since I can't get to it from work and report back on my findings.
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Nov 9, 2015 14:06
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And chargeback is not an option because of all that gifted stuff. drat. Maybe that's why they allowed the grey market, so middlemen who flipped a lot of ships and the buyers can never get a refund.
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Nov 9, 2015 14:24
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Hopper posted:And chargeback is not an option because of all that gifted stuff. drat. I'm more annoyed that they went to the total account spent page versus the, "Hey, what's this guy got in his account that can be refunded?" page of doing things.
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Nov 9, 2015 14:28
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There's nothing in writing about gifted stuff not being refundable (provided you actually spent more money than credit remaining on that account, they should also revert historic gifts if both account holders agree to enable a refund), nobody agreed to these made up limitations. I've said all this before, so not to go over it again, but if you have store credit with a store that's not kept to it's advertising commitments, it's not the customer that is going to have a tough time explaining themselves if it reaches court. It won't reach court because they'll fold before that happens. The only question is if you can be bothered to push them into a position of risking court over it. AP fucked around with this message at 14:37 on Nov 9, 2015 |
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Nov 9, 2015 14:30
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LCL-Dead posted:I'm more annoyed that they went to the total account spent page versus the, "Hey, what's this guy got in his account that can be refunded?" page of doing things. Yeah, this is complete bollocks, there is no reason at all to refund less than the lowest of "amount spent" and "stuff in the account" other than they don't want to lose that money.
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Nov 9, 2015 14:31
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SelenicMartian posted:Thank you. Apparently, rubber balls add the human touch. I actually see this as something spawning from the wait of anything useful in the social module. The Citizens want something active to do in the Planetside or Hangars because that's all they really have to play with right now, because the game as it is is not delivering on any real gameplay. It's like the Greycat, if driving it around, hit and runs, trying to fit it in weird locations and making it explode is the only fun thing to do with it right now, then people are going to demand for more of that.
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Nov 9, 2015 14:34
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No I get that AP, but if they refunded him, all the stuff he HAS gifted to others would be taken from the new owners. The stuff he WAS gifted however, should definitely be refundable.
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Nov 9, 2015 14:35
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It is complete horseshit that they say, that they don't refund poo poo you've gifted to others. I know of folks who've gifted a ton of stuff, and all of them got the refunds on top of whatever grey market cash. While at the same time, folks who receive gifted ships ALSO somehow aren't allowed to have it count as part of their refund. CIG has no loving accountant worth a drat checking up on all this, so don't give in to them for one second if you feel like they're bullshitting you about cash you legit feel is worth getting back. If nothing else, keep pestering them and we'll see if their, by this point since they fired almost all the competent people on the community team, already lovely support likes it when they get dozens of folks that want a proper goddamn refund back.
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Nov 9, 2015 14:36
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Hopper posted:No I get that AP, but if they refunded him, all the stuff he HAS gifted to others would be taken from the new owners. The stuff he WAS gifted however, should definitely be refundable. They can refund up to the store credit he has remaining. I edited my other post to be clearer. If you have X spent on account and Store credit is Y, they can refund Y as long as Y < X If you have gifted items in excess of X, you should be able to keep the account with the credit remaining, the only reason they are closing accounts is to try and stop people refunding (which is a consumer right in the EU). The only reason people can only gift once now is to solve another problem they had with the grey market, again the deck has been stacked in their favour and most people will just accept that because why would someone lie to you to keep money? You have to cause a fuss to get your way and I'm all in favour of people causing a fuss if it means they don't get screwed by some made up rule they never agreed to or even knew about. It possibly helps if people stop thinking about ships, the ships aren't real, it's all store credit moving backwards and forwards and they will refund if you push it (again assuming the account actually spent more than the credit on the account). AP fucked around with this message at 14:46 on Nov 9, 2015 |
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Nov 9, 2015 14:42
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It's interesting to me that the Concierge cards are going to raise them roughly about 100k (considering they made ~25k from them on Friday) considering they said they aren't making any money on the cards. So that's ~100k on the funding total with 0 going into game development. I wonder what the total raised on physical merchandising is so far that's gone on the funding total, as there's a good chance it probably doesn't even cover the cost of the staff working on the support tickets they've generated. Couple of million maybe?
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Nov 9, 2015 14:53
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AP posted:... (provided you actually spent more money than credit remaining on that account, they should also revert historic gifts if both account holders agree to enable a refund)... This is noted in the email from Patrick. Obviously it's not something worth doing because there is maybe one person on my list of people I gifted poo poo to who wasn't a grey market trader. I made more money off of the grey market than I spent on the game itself so it's not an issue worth taking them to court over. However, I would like them to refund me the value of the Redeemer and all VD store content. That's all I wanted to begin with. They're also not responding to Paypal disputes. I've emailed Paypal directly now and have gone through to dispute every CIG transaction in my account history now.
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Nov 9, 2015 14:56
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LCL-Dead posted:This is noted in the email from Patrick. Obviously it's not something worth doing because there is maybe one person on my list of people I gifted poo poo to who wasn't a grey market trader. How much have you spent on the account - (physical items already delivered, & subscription charges) and how much credit do you have on the account?
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Nov 9, 2015 14:59
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AP posted:How much have you spent on the account - (physical items already delivered, & subscription charges) and how much credit do you have on the account? Won't know exact numbers until I get home tonight. RSI is blocked @ work. No store credit on the account. The last ship was purchased with store credit garnered from ships I melted. Ships I had bought with my own money, not gifted to me. Account total spent is $740 according to CIG.
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Nov 9, 2015 15:06
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The simple reality of Star Citizen The Jpegs that were made last year and the year before now have to be fully realized as actual, functional game assets. To do this more Jpegs need to be created to bring in more money to pay for it. The initial funding has very obviously been spent on ridiculous luxury items and offices , an outright insulting attempt to get back into the hollywood film industry and preposterous Mocap shoots. I don't think that accountability entered anyone's head I do not believe that Chris is involved with the Swedish mafia I do not believe he set out to scam anyone, although now they are probably pulling some dubious financial maneuvers to avoid the punters finding out just how little cash they have left . The simple facts are : he hasn't made a game for 12 years and even the 'games' he did work on there is some debate over his actual involvement in them. The 'High concept' rock star mentality that infested the industry back in the 90's is alive and well in mr Roberts. However , at every turn he has shown his total lack of understanding with regards tech, networking, the game code, the engine, the assets creation process etc. The simplest but truest comment I have heard about this fiasco is ' Keeping Chris happy is far more important than actually making anything functional or deliverable' this from an ex dev There you have it; for fans of British 80's TV Goons and horses Stick a pony in me pocket I'll fetch some .JPEG's from the van Cause if you want the best 'uns And you don't ask questions Then brother I'm your man Where they all comes from Is a mystery It's like the changing of the seasons And the tides of the sea But heres the one thats driving me berserk Why do only goons and horses work La la lala - la la la la la (etc) We've got some half priced gladius And lots of pics of idrises Tshirts, travel mugs, CIG butt plugs Mocap,man tits and hours and hours of bullshit And at a push Some Derek Smart Law-suites From a mush in Shepherds Bush, Bush, Bush, Bush, Bush, Bush, Bush, Bush No income tax, no VAT No money back, no guarantee Black or white, rich or broke We'll cut prices at a stroke God bless CIG Viva CIG Long live CIG C'est magnifique CIG
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Nov 9, 2015 15:07
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LCL-Dead posted:I haven't actually done the math on what's still in the account but it's just a Redeemer and some VD store items, mostly hangar flair. I was expecting less than $400. I'm beginning to suspect that there's some other math at play. Back when everyone was super enthusiastic about SC I spent a considerable amount of time helping people secure LTI ships. The same deal Beer was doing for you lot but for the general public. As a result two things happened: 1) Virtually no pledges on my account were original. I believe I didn't have a single pledge that wasn't touched in some way by melted funds as I constantly shifted things around. 2) The dollar value of my account was a fair bit higher than the value of the pledges in my account, as a number of people wished to simply send me money over paypal (cripes) in the hopes that I'd buy their ships and send them along (I did). So I had a chunk of money on my "dollars spent" tab. They told me that they wejt through my transaction history to investigate gifted pledges and ultimately offered me more or less the value of the pledges in my account rather than the amount on my tab. Despite every one of those pledges being mixed with gifted funds and being worth more than I initially spent on the game, as they included a few random high fives from people. It seems like they're not really digging into the pledges so much as just doing a quick check to see if they can get away with refunding you less than the dollar value associated with your account based on the gifting logic. Then they offer you, at best, roughly half of what you spent. It's shady as gently caress and I don't believe it would hold up to any serious scrutiny. Claiming that pledges lose all value because you use CIG's own gifting system in its intended value is nonsense, to say nothing of their being no language associated with it in the TOS that I've ever seen. Dusty Lens fucked around with this message at 15:18 on Nov 9, 2015 |
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Nov 9, 2015 15:16
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EightAce posted:for fans of British 80's TV  Can an enterprising goon turn this into a suitable video?
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Nov 9, 2015 15:16
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As an outsider to the game, every time I read about Star Citizen, I get the feeling that it is a complex pyramid scheme. I remember a Goon friend telling me that because they had bought in early, I could buy into the game through them and get benefits that were no longer available. wikipedia posted:A pyramid scheme is an unsustainable and often illegal business model that involves promising participants payment or services, primarily for enrolling other people into the scheme, rather than supplying any real investment or sale of products or services to the public.
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Nov 9, 2015 15:21
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LCL-Dead posted:Won't know exact numbers until I get home tonight. RSI is blocked @ work. I wish people would stop thinking of these ships as real, if you want a refund it's not a ship it's store credit. So the melt value of a redeemer is $250 or $265 I think if a package. How much did you spend on VD store items? It's up to you but the fact you made money on the grey market is completely irrelevant, they don't know how much you sold for, or even if you sold, you might have been gifting ships to internet females along with pictures of your dick, that's perfectly normal behaviour in the wonderful world of Star Citizen. I'd guess they just don't think you're serious because you haven't melted the stupid thing. If you don't want the money back or can't be bothered that's fine but logically there's no reason you can't get a refund of your vd items bought with store credit + the melted value of the redeemer as that's going to be less than $740 that you can prove you gave them. Now to actually get a refund you might need to send a nasty email, and then you might need to follow up with a tracked delivery letter that's part of whatever your process is for small claims court, if they fail to refund you before whatever the deadline is, then have to actually intend filing a court claim. Again that's all up to you and needs a bit of effort on your part, reading how to follow the correct process for wherever you are correctly, but don't send the email unless you fully intend to follow through to the end because they might call your bluff. The only way I don't see you getting the money back is if they go bust before the process completes. In the UK if they fail to pay after the court ruling you can send a high court enforcement officer to collect goods to the value of what's owing if it's over a certain amount. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjMlr8cLlYE AP fucked around with this message at 15:34 on Nov 9, 2015 |
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Nov 9, 2015 15:21
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xutech posted:As an outsider to the game, every time I read about Star Citizen, I get the feeling that it is a complex pyramid scheme. I remember a Goon friend telling me that because they had bought in early, I could buy into the game through them and get benefits that were no longer available. Well, given that they've offered ingame rewards, for advertising this non-game to other gamers that are not yet Star Citizens and in their cult-like manner, it's not just a *feeling* of a pyramid scheme. By this point it is a completely honest-to-goodness one, as admitted by CIG themselves!
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Nov 9, 2015 15:23
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CrazyLoon posted:Well, given that they've offered ingame rewards, for advertising this non-game to other gamers that are not yet Star Citizens and in their cult-like manner, it's not just a *feeling* of a pyramid scheme. By this point it is a completely honest-to-goodness one, as admitted by CIG themselves! Yeah, it takes some serious balls to roll out a massive referral scheme when you are selling something that does not yet exist.
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Nov 9, 2015 15:29
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Dusty Lens posted:I'm beginning to suspect that there's some other math at play. Back when everyone was super enthusiastic about SC I spent a considerable amount of time helping people secure LTI ships. The same deal Beer was doing for you lot but for the general public. As a result two things happened: if they can't simply check out the history and proper balance of the transaction with just one query then I say their database design is really hosed up and Lando might be correct that due to their shifting minds/rules with regards to packages and accounts their tables in their database right now is like as horrible as the monster that Dr. Frankenstein created.
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Nov 9, 2015 15:34
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xutech posted:As an outsider to the game, every time I read about Star Citizen, I get the feeling that it is a complex pyramid scheme. I remember a Goon friend telling me that because they had bought in early, I could buy into the game through them and get benefits that were no longer available. Yes, this is the main point, and it's not a complex pyramid scheme, it's just a new one. The more interesting aspect is that it's giving lots of company names from the refunds that expose links between the different trading entities in different countries. Those 'early' benefits would have been the LTI packages from the first six months or so. I fired it up at the weekend to get a good look away from our echo chamber, and I'm even more convinced that they've painted themselves into a corner. There's significant input lag in the _hanger_, movement is at a shuffle without the 'run' modifier and geometry pop-in is apparent. Getting into the ship can also involve some fun clipping as the camera rapidly bounces between two positions. Aren't they supposed to be releasing an update soon?
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Nov 9, 2015 15:35
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RE: VD Store items - No current account access. No account access will be available until roughly 1600EST tonight. I know the melt value of the Redeemer and I've probably got maybe $60-70 worth of VD store bought stuff. Like I originally said, I was expecting less than $400 back but was just kind of shocked that they've somehow decided that nothing on the account was actually refundable. Kind of like the last property management company I had to deal with. $1200 deposit and they somehow find $1500 worth of repairs that need to be done. I took them to small claims court over it but that was because it was legit money I couldn't afford to lose at the time. CIG is not worth taking to small claims court over, especially given the likely difference in state laws (North Carolina -v- California) and relatively small amount of money that's in the mix. All I want is the cost of the Redeemer and the VD store items refunded to me. I'm going to reply with as much and then point out their obvious lapse in memory over the $120 Bounty Hunter package and random $40 mystery transactions that they cite.
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Nov 9, 2015 15:37
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^ If you can't be bothered that's fair enough, I just like people to know their rights.Hav posted:Aren't they supposed to be releasing an update soon? Two weeks. AP fucked around with this message at 15:40 on Nov 9, 2015 |
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Nov 9, 2015 15:38
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Ponzi and Pyramid Schemes posted:In both Ponzi schemes and pyramid schemes, existing investors are compensated by the contributions of new investors. Ponzi scheme participants believe they are earning returns from their investment, while pyramid scheme participants are aware that they are earning money by recruiting new participants. Multi-Level Marketing posted:a marketing strategy in which the sales force is compensated not only for sales they generate, but also for the sales of the other salespeople that they recruit. This recruited sales force is referred to as the participant's "downline", and can provide multiple levels of compensation. TLDR: CIG is much closer to Cutco than they are to Bernie Madoff.
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Nov 9, 2015 15:44
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What's interesting to me then, is that if they had carefully offered to create a game with a realistic scope, like, for example, a space version of Planetside 2, and controlled feature creep, they could have gotten a lot further along, or even accidently created a working product, before people sounded the alarm. I mean, the ridiculous nature of all the stuff on offer at the moment for Star citizen makes it totally fail the "sniff test". This is the same kind of mistake that so many fly by night MMO's made on the way to obscurity i.e Crowfall, Pathfinder online and Revival. So I wouldn't worry about this bullshit dying, because it is going to die. I am more concerned about the next iteration of this scam because it will be better planned and better hidden.
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Nov 9, 2015 15:48
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EminusSleepus posted:if they can't simply check out the history and proper balance of the transaction with just one query then I say their database design is really hosed up and Lando might be correct that due to their shifting minds/rules with regards to packages and accounts their tables in their database right now is like as horrible as the monster that Dr. Frankenstein created. It's pretty common for MMOs. You should see the terrible mess World of WarCraft's oracle DB was before the cleanup after Wrath. When they did account investigations it took weeks because they'd have to load old backup (dbs) to their test RAC to query them. They didn't track the transaction history. It's why account recovery before 3.0 took weeks. It's no surprise that SC is going through the same pain, especially given their complex melt and gifting setup.
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Nov 9, 2015 15:53
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It's dangerous to have no cat on this page, take this: She's depressed, she needs more jpegs of boxes
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Nov 9, 2015 16:00
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ShiroTheSniper posted:It's dangerous to have no cat on this page, take this: wanna pet that cranky kitteh
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Nov 9, 2015 16:09
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idgaf about space ships anymore. let's go back to talking about food Armenian kebabs, just like medzmama used to make.
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Nov 9, 2015 16:13
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Atheist Sunglasses posted:idgaf about space ships anymore. let's go back to talking about food 
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Nov 9, 2015 16:19
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