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 Found some game play, camping the spawn point.
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Nov 9, 2015 17:56
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Whoa, David Cameron holiday snaps itt
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Nov 9, 2015 17:58
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Apropos of nothing, I'd like to nominate AP as the OP of the eventual new thread. Bootcha doesn't seem to be interested, Eonwe didn't enjoy it, and Beer4theBeerGod lost that loving feeling (but hopefully is going to brew up some Bitter Tears beer for us). I think AP would make for excellent moderator. To wit: • Authoritative knowledge of the heretical counter narrative of CIG • Repeatedly evidences concern for the signal-to-noise ratio of a thread • Tough-minded but generally fair to opponents • The rapier-sharp wit • A recent penchant for exploding buggy gifs (always funny) • Surely willing to wield mod authority more often than our mercurial moderator I suspect he will decline but I figured I'd throw it out there. This thread has improved in the last few days after a particularly dismal jaunt but I wouldn’t mind seeing a fresh start in the not too distant future.
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Nov 9, 2015 18:00
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G0RF posted:Apropos of nothing, I'd like to nominate AP as the OP of the eventual new thread. I can agree with this.
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Nov 9, 2015 18:02
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G0RF posted:Apropos of nothing, I'd like to nominate AP as the OP of the eventual new thread. You have my picture of an axe.
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Nov 9, 2015 18:04
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Hu Fa Ted posted:i really feel like not liking people because of their sexual orientation is wrong What reasons do your feel are right for not liking people? Here's my top three, in order: 1. People who don't re-rack their weights (seriously, you just walk out of the gym leaving a pile of weights in the floor? JERK!) 2. People who admonish disabled people who don't look disabled enough in their opinion 3. Star Citizens (a group of which I am not a part of anymore, got my money back)  Fake edit* I'm pre-loading fallout 4, a game that I can play tonight.
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Nov 9, 2015 18:08
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spacetoaster posted:What reasons do your feel are right for not liking people? same
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Nov 9, 2015 18:09
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spacetoaster posted:What reasons do your feel are right for not liking people? People who are mean to animals.
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Nov 9, 2015 18:10
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G0RF posted:Apropos of nothing, I'd like to nominate AP as the OP of the eventual new thread. I endorse this. Also I've been sick/traveling for the last two weeks so I haven't been able to keep up with the insanity as much as in the past.
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Nov 9, 2015 18:14
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People who think women should be baby machines and use terms like "half-savage" Also AP should be new thread leader, unless the Smart is going to produce something amazing. ShredsYouSay fucked around with this message at 18:22 on Nov 9, 2015 |
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Nov 9, 2015 18:16
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Wafflz posted:I am actually. Being concerned and hopeful is nowhere near the guy I posted though, he thinks it is going to be a revelation. Skip down to  if you just want the SC stuffI'll try to keep this shorter (note: I failed) and skip most of the financial side. I can address that later if you're interested. I've been a simulation fan since childhood. My first real gaming experience was Chuck Yeager's Air Combat (on an IBM XT!) and Camel.exe. I loved Microprose's work with JANES (F-19 Stealth Fighter!), Papyrus's Indy Car, and all those classics of the day, but my true love was always space combat. Somehow, I missed Elite. My first experience was 1990's SNES port of Wing Commander, which is still one of my fond, if retroactively bad, memories. X-Wing in 1993 was the perfect game for me, but I always felt the want to go outside of the ships. I wanted to have a mission that involved multiple warps. From that time on, I was a fan of sims. Post I-War 2 and Descent: FreeSpace 2, the Space sims were essentially dead. Now an adult with all of the income I wished I had as a kid, I had nothing to spend it on that fit that love of space simulators. Nexus: Jupiter Incident was okay. Evochron Mercury was empty of story. Jumpgate Evolution was supposed to come out, but through all this time, I only had Flight Simulator to really get deep into as I used to. By this time, I had enough money to get involved in smaller investments and got to evaluate a number of proposals, but the overwhelming majority of them were tiny productions looking to deliver an experience like Rebel Galaxy. $3-10 million type of productions. I was pretty disappointed in the projects being offered, to the point I mentioned what kind of thing I would actually like to fund in 2010: http://www.shacknews.com/chatty?id=22187877#item_22187877 "I'd budget the following: Space Sim MMO, FPS and Space Sim 1. $40-50 million for an FPS that features Euphoria engine based on my favorite comic. 2. $40 million for a space combat sim in the style of Independence War II. This engine would be used for: 3. $70 million ($40 up front, $30 for continuing support) for an MMO based upon #2. It would feature an ongoing NPC economy and piracy system that players and guilds can interact with." I had gotten a good idea what the costs would be to deliver on the kind of project I was interested in after Earth and Beyond blew up due to EA's shifting priorities and joked about what I would do when a lottery. So, that's the history. I wanted a space sim that was detailed. When I was first approached, the presentation felt similar to Earth and Beyond ++ which is something I am not interested in. From my post in 2010, you can see where I was predicting the costs to go, I passed on the investment opportunity and then on the Kickstarter. There was not enough to interest me and the goals seemed unrealistic for the income. I knew it would take around 70+ million to get to that point. -- Let's fast forward to today. One of the things I've observed over the years is that younger gamers tend to have short memories. We tend to not see improvements. When you've been involved in a few projects you get a sense for where things are going, especially when you've invested in a failure and success or two (Maginatics and Apple, just as examples). Part of that income I spend on games. Before Fig I was doing a lot of Kickstarter funding (FTL, Wasteland 2, DFA, Replique, Shadowrun, PA - RTS, Edge of Space, Void Destroyer, Lacuna Passage, Project Rain World, etc) and one of the delights is seeing what used to be exclusively shown to publisher management get shown to the 'public.' So here we are, Star Citizen, which has one of the most updated development programs around, and I'm getting more access than I ever got as an investor. Because of our short memories, we tend to forget progress and only see the now. When I made the choice to fund was a little after their first modal ship reveal. During a livestream they demonstrated their modal ship* the Constellation. There was nothing released at this point, but I saw that the direction they were going is much more in alignment with what I was looking for. At that point I started to follow the development and made my first donation (for a 300i). I signed up for the Goonfleet with my essentially idle account because you guys tend to have the most fun when gaming and don't take poo too serious. * Modal ship is the equivalent of a vertical slice for a more traditional game. When you're making a sim, you want to get a complete all-up model of what your primary development goal will be. You spend the effort early to build this, rig all the simulations into it, and set that as the goal for your development. 'This is what all ships must reach to be acceptable.' Sorry for the big post. When you say 'didn't read' I totally understand  tl;dr Since that point, I've seen a steady release cycle. A baby hangar mode followed by a renderer redo (to go to a deferred method using PBR/texture atlas with normals). A basic (sim-system free) flight mode with basic AI. Then a race mode. That's essentially where we are on the surface level. What I've been interested in though is the background engine development. If you have not invested in a game before, you might not realize how much work is essentially behind-the-scenes engine work, and in 2012, what they proposed was not possible, which a lot of us recognized. It would take a massive engineering effort and years of work. What I look at is what improvements have happened to the engine since launch: The deferred renderer was improved in 2013 with the addition of support for chamfering, Physical-based rendering and the use of texture atlasing for decals. That's meaningless gibberish unless you've worked in the game industry and realize that saves you a huge amount of space on texture memory. It's critical for performance. If you'd like to read up on it: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/3ogi3o/im_an_tech_artist_in_the_industry_and_id_love_to/ - That same year the CryEngine multiplayer code was rewritten*. In 2014 basic multiplayer was delivered (AC update 1.0). Ship outfitting and the first of the simulation systems (energy usage) came next which means simulation design was in the delivered engine. In 2015 the next major fix is shown, with the switch from 32-bit FP positioning to 64-bit. Non-clamped nesting zoning is added. Multiplayer Large is released (player counts over 15). * Did any of you play MW:LL? (Mech Warrior: Living Legends). That was another CryEngine release and one of the things the development team had a lot of complaints about is how terrible CryEngine's native multiplayer code is. Like everyone else who works with CryTek, they had to do a rewrite of the network code to make their game playable. It's a thing gamers see as a failure (CIG is terrible they cannot even get multiplayer working), but if you know your engine development, you realize that's a good delivery. -- Basically, that's what I'm looking at. When Derek's first blog came out, I decided to sit back and reconsider further donations. I wanted to see if CIG was still able to progress, as the FPS portions looked terrible. Not bad, terrible. We're talking Halo: Master Chief Edition bad. Since that time, they've demonstrated that they've moved to a 64-bit FP, while retaining 32-bit addressing for render (this, BTW, is the most impressive thing I've seen. Keeping the optimized render path is a massive issue, and I'm impressed any company has managed to deliver this). Proper nested zoning is in. My one goal I've maintained as being my measure of success since 2014 is 'supposedly' coming, the AC 2.0. That's kinda what I've been waiting for all along: http://www.shacknews.com/chatty?id=31750914#item_31750914 Sorry for the long poo. Loiosh fucked around with this message at 18:24 on Nov 9, 2015 |
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Nov 9, 2015 18:21
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I have been spoiled by the amount of insanity that happened between mid october till now. I don't think we will have much new crazy stuff until 2.0 comes out or is late again which going by that one customer support guy who said 10 days on the 28th. I think i'll check back in this thread in a week and see how nuts it's gotten then.
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Nov 9, 2015 18:22
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I kinda failed at TL;DR, so I'm going to apologize again. Sorry about that, all.
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Nov 9, 2015 18:23
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spacetoaster posted:What reasons do your feel are right for not liking people?
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Nov 9, 2015 18:24
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I saw a gym employee work out after his shift and not re-rack his weights when he was done. It was pretty funny.
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Nov 9, 2015 18:26
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G0RF posted:I think AP would make for excellent moderator. Thanks but poo poo posting here wastes too much of my time already. I'd want Karl to make it anyway.
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Nov 9, 2015 18:31
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Loiosh posted:I kinda failed at TL;DR, so I'm going to apologize again. Sorry about that, all. Your tl;Dr is like a compressed binary file. Anyway good post
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Nov 9, 2015 18:32
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:I endorse this. Also I've been sick/traveling for the last two weeks so I haven't been able to keep up with the insanity as much as in the past. I'm just hoping against hope that you were serious about brewing up some Bitter Tears, Beer... 
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Nov 9, 2015 18:35
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Romes128 posted:I'm ok with pc gaming dying. Unfortunately that isn't going to happen any time soon, since we're basically in a PC gaming golden age right now. From big studios putting out multi-million dollar AAA games to garage studios of a couple guys making their game a reality on a shoestring budget just like back in the 80s and early 90s. I've bought more PC games since I got a steam account in 2011 than I did in the previous 35 years combined. A couple years ago I set up my elderly mother with her own steam and gog accounts, and she has over a dozen games now. PC gaming didn't need saving. At best Christ Roberts has saved the space sim genre (by encouraging other people to make space games, lol).
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Nov 9, 2015 18:36
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AP posted:Thanks but poo poo posting here wastes too much of my time already. I'd want Karl to make it anyway. It was worth a shot.
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Nov 9, 2015 18:36
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Loiosh posted:Insane amount of words. Can someone explain to me how doing all this back end optimization still getting a crappy result would be any way better then just literally dumping the whole thing and starting over with unreal 4? Like how is that encouraging when unreal is basically giving away its engine for free to indie devs and has a lot of that stuff like physical based rendering and the like working by default in the engine, amazing built in tools for devs and artist, non lovely MP code and probably more things. Like its not like they built a huge procedural universe custom engine already, it's all a vertical slice with almost nothing there but ship models and one large environment which I think amounts to them making a level with huge boundaries and nothing more? Like the one thing I heard that is unique to this game that kinda works maybe is the walking in ships as they are moving and I don't even know how buggy that is considering how broken everything else looks. Can some one actually point out what they have made specifically custom for cryengine? like every part of what they released is bog standard video game stuff except janky as hell and broken worst then the default engine. You can stand in a hanger, you can race a space ship and you can get in a buggy in a city with small player counts all of which could have been done as a crysis mod right? You can't even shoot people. Vire fucked around with this message at 18:41 on Nov 9, 2015 |
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Nov 9, 2015 18:36
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I'm OK with everything
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Nov 9, 2015 18:40
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They should have used the Tomb Raider engine, man that was some sweet sweet engine stuff in there
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Nov 9, 2015 18:42
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spacetoaster posted:What reasons do your feel are right for not liking people? people who are mean to waiters for no reason
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Nov 9, 2015 18:43
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little refund update: CIG told me they were giving me a refund a month ago, closed my ticket, and never gave me the refund.
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Nov 9, 2015 18:44
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I don't like people with narcissistic personality disorder for personal reasons, and I can spot the indicators right away. That is why Sandi's imminent crash and burn is extremely my poo poo.
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Nov 9, 2015 18:46
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Mein Eyes! posted:little refund update: CIG told me they were giving me a refund a month ago, closed my ticket, and never gave me the refund. Sounds like it is time for a charge back.
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Nov 9, 2015 18:47
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Mein Eyes! posted:little refund update: CIG told me they were giving me a refund a month ago, closed my ticket, and never gave me the refund. Same, I e-mailed them saying that if they didn't get their poo poo together within 48 hours I'd be filing a chargeback so let's see if that's lights a fire under their rear end.
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Nov 9, 2015 18:47
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I don't like people who tell me how to have my steak cooked, just lay off my meat preferences dude like seriously gently caress off
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Nov 9, 2015 18:47
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Mein Eyes! posted:little refund update: CIG told me they were giving me a refund a month ago, closed my ticket, and never gave me the refund. *You were the problem.
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Nov 9, 2015 18:48
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Vire posted:Can someone explain to me how doing all this back end optimization still getting a crappy result would be any way better then just literally dumping the whole thing and starting over with unreal 4? Like how is that encouraging when unreal is basically giving away its engine for free to indie devs and has a lot of that stuff like physical based rendering and the like working by default in the engine, amazing built in tools for devs and artist, non lovely MP code and probably more things. I can answer this from my perspective, but I'm not a game developer. The issue with starting over or moving to a new engine is one of capability. The requirements for SC's goals are not available. From the sidelines we look in and see vehicles in (Halo or Unreal) for example and go, Look at that, it's right there! If you dig into it though you begin to realize limitations and how well hidden they are. It's why you (In Halo 5 as an example) still see the same jump height/floatiness while supposedly jumping 'down' the side of a large ship. The engine only supports a single zone (which includes a universal gravity vector). Unreal 4 is the same. (Tech note: 'zones' in Unreal Engine are self-contained area. They're not nestible). Even in engines with zoning, like Uncharted 3) they tend to be heavily restricted. Uncharted 3 has nested zones, but they're clamped on the X/Z axis. It's used for the sinking ship level where 3 different zones are nested to do the physics simulation, the only zone rotation is on the Y axis (bank) as the ship rolls. Unreal 4 does have excellent multiplayer code, but it is not optimized for zoning which would require the engine to functionally be re-written to support it because the entire engine thread makes assumptions like each level having a universal gravity. I have not worked with it, but I believe it does allow you to specify different gravity vectors, but they're static and baked into the level. (This allows you to do something silly like make a level inside of a sphere, but the limitation is that the sphere cannot rotate). You can see how that would be a problem for an engine that wants to have ships with internal gravity sources moving and allow the player to do EVA outside of a mobile ship. It's actually a hard problem to solve, and besides Derek's assertions that BattleCruiser 3000AD and LoD support nested moveable zones, I'm not aware of another engine that does (please feel free to correct me).
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Nov 9, 2015 18:50
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Mein Eyes! posted:little refund update: CIG told me they were giving me a refund a month ago, closed my ticket, and never gave me the refund. Did they ban your account? Can you initiate a chargeback?
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Nov 9, 2015 18:51
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We can only make a new thread once we reach page 420 because it contains CIGs favorite number. Zero, because its how much money they have left.
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Nov 9, 2015 18:51
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everything I know about the horrors of game design I learned from Space Station 13
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Nov 9, 2015 18:53
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Mein Eyes! posted:little refund update: CIG told me they were giving me a refund a month ago, closed my ticket, and never gave me the refund. Hope this isn't me. I'm a few weeks into waiting now.
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Nov 9, 2015 18:56
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Loiosh posted:I can answer this from my perspective, but I'm not a game developer. The issue with starting over or moving to a new engine is one of capability. The requirements for SC's goals are not available. From the sidelines we look in and see vehicles in (Halo or Unreal) for example and go, Look at that, it's right there! If you dig into it though you begin to realize limitations and how well hidden they are. It's why you (In Halo 5 as an example) still see the same jump height/floatiness while supposedly jumping 'down' the side of a large ship. The engine only supports a single zone (which includes a universal gravity vector). Unreal 4 is the same. (Tech note: 'zones' in Unreal Engine are self-contained area. They're not nestible). Even in engines with zoning, like Uncharted 3) they tend to be heavily restricted. Uncharted 3 has nested zones, but they're clamped on the X/Z axis. It's used for the sinking ship level where 3 different zones are nested to do the physics simulation, the only zone rotation is on the Y axis (bank) as the ship rolls. Cool thanks that is actually interesting to know. So they have actually implemented the zone nesting in their frankenstein engine already? Is this why everything that should be simple is now broken because it's so ridiculous to do something like that having every ship having its own gravity while dudes outside of it float freely? edit: Just thinking about this from a gameplay perspective I don't even know how you make that eva/ship interaction even that fun. Like the only way it would work if you would need to have some kinda ship that would completely lock down the other ship then you would get out of your ship float over to there ship somehow get in while the other guy stands there with his thumb up his rear end the whole time just waiting to get boarded and owned. I guess you could have it so that he would have to run over to the back of his ship or something and press some buttons to fix the engines or something but sounds really unfun for the person who is getting boarded. Vire fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Nov 9, 2015 |
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Nov 9, 2015 18:56
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Loiosh posted:stuff They say they have made all this progress but literally everything they show apart from stuff like ship models is janky as gently caress and looks like poo poo. They have used three different motion capture studios at this point and the animations are horrifying for a 2015 game, they spent all this time on individual thruster flight model this and that and when the ships aren't bugging out entirely and doing hilarious space gymnastics it looks like an fps with a cockpit glued to your face. Except for the modeling and texturing, which is technically competent but lacking any overarching style (and is really generic IMO), everything they show is a complete mess. I mean they had insane, dial-up era lag on a LAN at citcon for the baby poo and this thing is supposed to release for multiplayer on the internet soon? Also, they keep throwing stuff out and rewriting and redesigning and it's clear that Chris's dictatorial control is making all of the development into a train wreck. They don't have the money to make this game once, much less four or five times.
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Nov 9, 2015 19:03
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Mein Eyes! posted:little refund update: CIG told me they were giving me a refund a month ago, closed my ticket, and never gave me the refund. Issue the chargeback anyway through your bank.
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Nov 9, 2015 19:05
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And now I have serious posted in the Star citizen thread   PAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRP  That's better.
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Nov 9, 2015 19:07
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Wafflz posted:They have used three different motion capture studios at this point and the animations are horrifying for a 2015 game, they spent all this time on individual thruster flight model this and that and when the ships aren't bugging out entirely and doing hilarious space gymnastics it looks like an fps with a cockpit glued to your face. Now, they really are comparable with the best in first person games' ladder climbing animations.
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Nov 9, 2015 19:09
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