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Too many chicks gonna gently caress up the homoeroticism (in the classical sense) which would effect the tone a lot.
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Oct 13, 2015 19:52
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SHISHKABOB posted:So the reason why one of the main characters should be female is so that the other (male) main character can have a romantic interest in them? You're suggesting there wasn't something there already?
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Oct 13, 2015 20:10
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  And so we come full circle Wait, what were we even talking about.
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Oct 13, 2015 20:58
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The reason for Oberstein's loyalty was his smoldering love for Reinhard. Matched only by the love for his dog.
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Oct 13, 2015 23:06
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That dog is on screen for like 2 seconds the entire series but it does so much to humanize Ol' Terminator Eyes. People who love their pets can't be aaaaaaalllll bad... Oberspoilers --> Also his dying thoughts are of his old dog, let him eat what he wants indeed 
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Oct 14, 2015 00:49
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Dogs eat dog food
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Oct 14, 2015 04:33
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So, I started watching this series last week at the recommendation of forums member Superstring, and I've watched both the movies (My Conquest is the Sea of Stars and Overture to a New War) and up through episode 10. (Haven't read the thread other than the opening post, but he asked if I'd post here, so I am.) Enjoying it so far, although I enjoy the republic side of things a good chunk more than the empire. Mostly because Yang is adorable. :P And I find the stories of sham democracy and such more interesting than the endless procession of Counts and such I'm having a bit of trouble keeping track of. (Not that Reinhard isn't interesting from time to time, but apart from his relationship with Reinhard, nothing about him's really stuck with me. But man, those two are in a borderline Kamen Rider Kuuga level of obvious relationship in all but explictly statedness.) From how much I got the animation talked up ahead of time by Superstring, I was expecting something worse, but it's been pretty good, if low-framerate. My main criticism so far is that I feel like apart from the protagonists and their allies, everyone in the series is screamingly incompetent or evil, and usually both. Like, when there's a literal in-series conversation of "hey, do you think our guy might accidentally succeed even though we've sabotaged him at every turn because the enemy might be more self-sabotaging and incompetent", I have a bit of a hard time taking it seriously. Still, enjoying it pretty well so far.
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Nov 5, 2015 01:53
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gourdcaptain posted:My main criticism so far is that I feel like apart from the protagonists and their allies, everyone in the series is screamingly incompetent or evil, and usually both. I think this bit was on purpose though. Both the Empire and the Republic are heavily stagnated institutions by the time Yang and Reinhard come into play with people only climbing up the ladder by making use of political or family connections. Reinhard comes into power because his sister is the Emperor's favourite concubine and Yang gains control because everyone higher up in the chain of command either ran away or died. Please keep posting though since this thread since new watchers make the best posters!
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Nov 5, 2015 02:07
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Kegslayer posted:I think this bit was on purpose though. Both the Empire and the Republic are heavily stagnated institutions by the time Yang and Reinhard come into play with people only climbing up the ladder by making use of political or family connections. Reinhard comes into power because his sister is the Emperor's favourite concubine and Yang gains control because everyone higher up in the chain of command either ran away or died. Yeah, I get that's the point, I'm just at this point half-amazed the war's gone on 150 years because I'm not sure some of the people at the heads of the military could remember to keep breathing that long.
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Nov 5, 2015 02:19
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One of the things that makes the show interesting, and makes it more enjoyable as it progresses, is that there's a massive culling of the old, stubborn and incompetent leadership of both factions in parallel to Yang and Reinhardt ascending to prominence. By the mid-point of the series you're mostly watching the interesting and intelligent characters facing off against each other directly as opposed to watching Yang or Reinhardt or one of their subordinates clowning on some stodgy arrogant geezers like they do in the beginning.
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Nov 5, 2015 02:41
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LoGH is amazing, but it's a very legitimate criticism that 'bad guys' are portrayed really, really 1-dimensionally. Luckily theres about 40 awesome protagonists squaring off against each other most of the time, but it is a problematic theme throughout the series that
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Nov 5, 2015 04:48
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DamnGlitch posted:LoGH is amazing, but it's a very legitimate criticism that 'bad guys' are portrayed really, really 1-dimensionally. Luckily theres about 40 awesome protagonists squaring off against each other most of the time, but it is a problematic theme throughout the series that I haven't seen it for a while but who are the actual 1 dimensional 'bad guys' in the show aside from maybe the cultists? I mean the show makes a really big deal about how humanity never changes and people are essentially a product of their environment. I guess you could say the Imperial Nobles are the closest to moustache twirling villains but at the same time, they've been brought up in a culture of assholes that has been fermenting for hundreds of years. Even Yang makes the comment that if he was brought up in the Empire, he'd have a completely different view of the world and would have backed the Imperials 100%.
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Nov 6, 2015 00:38
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Prince Braunschweig and some of the people surrounding him are probably the ones that come the closest, but that's probably to be expected after several generations of inbreeding.
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Nov 6, 2015 00:48
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Kegslayer posted:I haven't seen it for a while but who are the actual 1 dimensional 'bad guys' in the show aside from maybe the cultists? Most of the admirals on both sides of the war early on, I'd say. They're clearly not intended to be sympathetic and most of them are portrayed using a single note, that note being "I CANNOT FIND MY rear end WITH BOTH HANDS AND A MAP" with the rider "I AM LEADING MILLIONS TO THEIR DEATHS BECAUSE I AM A DUM DUM" They may not be evil, but nobody's rooting for them, either. Tomn fucked around with this message at 14:22 on Nov 7, 2015 |
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Nov 7, 2015 14:19
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Tomn posted:Most of the admirals on both sides of the war early on, I'd say. They're clearly not intended to be sympathetic and most of them are portrayed using a single note, that note being "I CANNOT FIND MY rear end WITH BOTH HANDS AND A MAP" with the rider "I AM LEADING MILLIONS TO THEIR DEATHS BECAUSE I AM A DUM DUM" Yeah, I mean I just watched episode 13 last night, which has Commodore Fork and his plan to start a space ground war in space Asia. For personal self-interest. And anyone who points out this is a dumb plan, like Yang and EVERYONE ELSE THERE in the Navy judging by their facial expressions is called a defeatist traitor by him. I'm really hoping Fork dies messily soon.
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Nov 7, 2015 19:47
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gourdcaptain posted:Yeah, I mean I just watched episode 13 last night, which has Commodore Fork and his plan to start a space ground war in space Asia. For personal self-interest. And anyone who points out this is a dumb plan, like Yang and EVERYONE ELSE THERE in the Navy judging by their facial expressions is called a defeatist traitor by him. You're in for a treat.
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Nov 7, 2015 20:53
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Andrew Fork hits way too close to home for anybody who was following American politics in 2002-2003.
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Nov 7, 2015 21:10
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It's easy to think that these people are too stupid/evil/incompetent but it's not really inaccurate. Given that the war has lasted quite a while too, it shouldn't be surprising that these people make it to the top. The people who could've become competent leaders just don't get their chance, while somebody at the right place and time can luck out and become a war hero for doing nothing special. It just helps that Yang is quite self-aware when he lucked into becoming a war hero and lucked into having a command position.
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Nov 7, 2015 22:12
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Pornographic Memory posted:Andrew Fork hits way too close to home for anybody who was following American politics in 2002-2003. Yeah, the entire time that episode played all I could think of was the Dollop episode on the Iraq war. The Forks thing is realistic and borderline comic, just kinda frustrating.
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Nov 8, 2015 04:56
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Joanne Lebello did nothing wrong.
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Nov 8, 2015 05:11
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gourdcaptain posted:Yeah, the entire time that episode played all I could think of was the Dollop episode on the Iraq war. The Forks thing is realistic and borderline comic, just kinda frustrating. It's outright depressing how a lot of the show can still be applied to us almost 30 years later. All the incidents and commentary on religious extremism, nationalism, democracy etc are still very relevant today. I thought Fork was a pretty realistic character though. He was smart enough to climb up the ranks and politically connected enough to get the civilian government to vote for his plan. The only problem was that his plan was completely poo poo and the people who could see that had no legal means of stopping him.
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Nov 8, 2015 05:51
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Tomn posted:Most of the admirals on both sides of the war early on, I'd say. They're clearly not intended to be sympathetic and most of them are portrayed using a single note, that note being "I CANNOT FIND MY rear end WITH BOTH HANDS AND A MAP" with the rider "I AM LEADING MILLIONS TO THEIR DEATHS BECAUSE I AM A DUM DUM" Yeah that was my criticism as well early in the show. Not so much evil but more completely idiotic in a way to just make the protagonists look good by comparison. It does get better by the end of season 1 though.
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Nov 8, 2015 09:54
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Argas posted:It's easy to think that these people are too stupid/evil/incompetent but it's not really inaccurate. Given that the war has lasted quite a while too, it shouldn't be surprising that these people make it to the top. The people who could've become competent leaders just don't get their chance, while somebody at the right place and time can luck out and become a war hero for doing nothing special. It just helps that Yang is quite self-aware when he lucked into becoming a war hero and lucked into having a command position. For what it's worth, the Lost Fleet series also has with the idea of an eternal war where the commanders are all idiots, but justifies it instead with "all the actually competent and trained people got killed off through sheer attrition in the first few generations and by now all we have are hastily-trained dudes who know just enough to drive a ship but not enough for any tactics more complex than a headalong charge - which due to cultural shifts resultant from generations of dudes charging straight ahead has by now become regarded as the most glorious and honorable tactic anyways." Mind, most of the commanders in the Lost Fleet aren't presented as actually stupid - they've just suffered such a massive loss of institutional knowledge and been pressed to the wall for so long that they've forgotten that anything better was even possible and haven't had time to redevelop new tactics before needing to get thrown into the fire again.
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Nov 8, 2015 12:02
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There's better ways to write the early commanders who make trouble for Yang before he gets his own command but it's not too far off the mark as it is. Could easily have the commander take Yang's suggestion but preparations are sluggish because they're reluctant to implement a plan they have misgivings about. When their own sluggishness ends up costing them the battle despite going with Yang's plan, the commander can believe the fault lies with Yang. I don't mind the writing too much because it shows just how dire things are for the Alliance. With Iserlohn standing in the way, they've been throwing everything they can at the fortress and losing tons of people each time. Even if the war had started much more recently, those sort of casualties are going to cost the fleet a ton of intelligent officers who could've become good commanders. Instead they're left with people who are perfect examples of Dunning-Kruger. Argas fucked around with this message at 22:03 on Nov 8, 2015 |
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Nov 8, 2015 12:27
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halokiller posted:Yeah that was my criticism as well early in the show. Not so much evil but more completely idiotic in a way to just make the protagonists look good by comparison. It does get better by the end of season 1 though. Yeah it improves DRAMATICALLY as Yang and Reinhard advance.
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Nov 8, 2015 21:34
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Kegslayer posted:It's outright depressing how a lot of the show can still be applied to us almost 30 years later. All the incidents and commentary on religious extremism, nationalism, democracy etc are still very relevant today. In every time, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same
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Nov 9, 2015 16:26
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Tomn posted:Most of the admirals on both sides of the war early on, I'd say. They're clearly not intended to be sympathetic and most of them are portrayed using a single note, that note being "I CANNOT FIND MY rear end WITH BOTH HANDS AND A MAP" with the rider "I AM LEADING MILLIONS TO THEIR DEATHS BECAUSE I AM A DUM DUM" I was thinking on this while rewatching the show, and I think this was an attempt by whoever was making the show/the author of the novels to viciously take apart the mentality of 'Fighting Hard and Believing in Yourself = Winning' that shows up a lot in other anime. I could be overthinking it, though. In other news, check out this loving map! Look at it!  Southern Europe (including half of Germany and France) has allied with Russia (which has reclaimed Alaska). There are civil wars in a lot of countries that have very few people. Including Iceland. loving Iceland! New Zealand has joined forces with the rebellious People's Republic of Greater Queensland. Sri Lanka has captured parts of India. That Caspian Sea is part of Iran. In other news, what is Iberia doing?
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Nov 10, 2015 04:37
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Haha, is this the one time in sci fi China and the US actually team up against Russia?
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Nov 10, 2015 04:44
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Superstring posted:Haha, is this the one time in sci fi China and the US actually team up against Russia? Who knows? Also, I missed the fact that some of Canada's northern islands have rebelled against it. How that could have possibly happened is utterly beyond me. (If you don't know, the largest of those islands has a population of about 2000)
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Nov 10, 2015 05:05
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Lustful Man Hugs posted:Who knows? Also, I missed the fact that some of Canada's northern islands have rebelled against it. How that could have possibly happened is utterly beyond me. (If you don't know, the largest of those islands has a population of about 2000) Obviously global warming and oil had a healthy impact on the population growth
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Nov 10, 2015 05:06
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And it all ends with the world capital of Brisbane, Australia.
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Nov 10, 2015 05:12
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Lustful Man Hugs posted:I was thinking on this while rewatching the show, and I think this was an attempt by whoever was making the show/the author of the novels to viciously take apart the mentality of 'Fighting Hard and Believing in Yourself = Winning' that shows up a lot in other anime. There's definitely a lot of stereotypical military bluster by individuals on both sides so it's a valid view.
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Nov 10, 2015 07:25
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Just watched episode 17 of Legend of Galactic Heroes. I can't help but be kind of unimpressed by one aspect of Reinhard and Oberstein's plan to distract the Alliance with a coup attempt - namely, putting ex-Rear Admiral Lynch in charge. Every shot of him so far has him drinking and being drunk. Please tell me he's literally got a bottle in his hand the entire time he's onscreen in the series.  But uh, having a drunk coward launch your plan seems like a bad method of having it even work as a distraction (points if he somehow forgot part of the plan Reinhard gave him and has to improvise.)
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Nov 11, 2015 09:22
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gourdcaptain posted:Every shot of him so far has him drinking and being drunk. Please tell me he's literally got a bottle in his hand the entire time he's onscreen in the series. Yes.
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Nov 11, 2015 15:57
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Reinhard is actually an idiot.
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Nov 11, 2015 15:59
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Lustful Man Hugs posted:I was thinking on this while rewatching the show, and I think this was an attempt by whoever was making the show/the author of the novels to viciously take apart the mentality of 'Fighting Hard and Believing in Yourself = Winning' that shows up a lot in other anime. One of the very, very few times Yang gets seriously angry is when the Imperial Iserlohn commander charges in recklessly even though the battle is already lost, boasting about the warrior spirit he and his forces have. "Warrior spirit? Warrior spirit!? It's because of people like you that wars never end!" Then Yang  him out of existence.
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Nov 11, 2015 17:17
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Reinhard is pretty good as a mid level commander, but IMO his plans get worse and worse as the series goes on. It's a case where he's better supplied staffed and has more power that he wins, while Yang usually has a better strategy but he's fighting against numbers every step of the way.
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Nov 11, 2015 19:19
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DamnGlitch posted:Reinhard is pretty good as a mid level commander, but IMO his plans get worse and worse as the series goes on. It's a case where he's better supplied staffed and has more power that he wins, while Yang usually has a better strategy but he's fighting against numbers every step of the way. Reinhard comes across as the quintessential Napoleon type to me at this point in the series: its not so much that he's an unprecedented genius as a competent commander everyone's being too busy tripping over themselves due to incompetence and politics to effectively fight. Meanwhile, like I've repeatedly commented to friends while watching this, Yang is stuck on a impossible difficulty mode.
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Nov 11, 2015 22:07
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Reinhard commands men willing to die for him, Yang leads men (and women) who trust him to do his best to get them through the fight alive. I always found it interesting that Yang's staff is a lot less flashy in their individual roles, yet as a whole they are noticeably more competent than Reinhard's staff. Reinhard's got a shitton of admirals who are great fleet leaders, yet aren't really capable of working together, and often end up running into each other while seeking glory, so to speak. They absolutely need Reinhard to keep them in line. On the other hand, Yang spent an entire episode trying to stop his logistics officer (if I recall correctly) from getting reassigned elsewhere, since he knows that competent men are hard to find, and all his plans are worth poo poo if his fleet isn't in the right shape to execute them (which you kinda need competent logistics guys for). And it's not the only time in the show where Yang goes out of his way to ensure the right person gets assigned to the right position. If I had to make a comparison, Reinhard's admirals are tools in a toolbox. Reinhard picks the right tool for every job (while every tool screams "Pick me!"), and gets it done, occasionally doing things with his own hands when the need arises. Yang's staff are a well oiled machine. He inputs his instructions, and poo poo gets done. This is why Reinhard fuming about being constantly outmatched by Yang is so ironic. His own mindset of seeing the world as being in a struggle between great heroes prevents him from understanding that Yang, the brilliant enemy he faces, is more than just Yang, the individual. (Spoilers about plot that happens fairly late) In a weird way, one of the best signs of Yang's competency is that he build a fleet that didn't crumble without him. They keep on fighting against ridiculous odds long after he dies - weakened by his absence but certainly not defeated, still benefiting greatly from the foundations he laid. On the other hand, the Empire shakes every time Reinhard catches a cold. edit: Unrelated, my personal favorite characters are Alexandre Bewcock and his wife. She's only present in a couple of scenes, but that one moment when she's already prepared his uniform before that one battle is... Probably the most emotional moment in the show, at least to me. my dad fucked around with this message at 22:25 on Nov 11, 2015 |
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Nov 11, 2015 22:22
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Bucock is incredible, and I love how they portray him. A great commander who isn't past his prime, but whose body has passed it.
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Nov 11, 2015 22:36
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