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AP
Jul 12, 2004

One Ring to fool them all
One Ring to find them
One Ring to milk them all
and pockets fully line them
Grimey Drawer

Loiosh posted:

I like comparing development to other games that have gone through major revisions in their own histories for comparison, which is why I mentioned Halo, Destiny and AC as examples of games that have had major revisions during their development. (One fundamental engine redesign with a complete art and asset scrap, one a complete story and MP redesign, and one a full art and asset scrap)

I think you triggered me by talking about Star Citizen as if it's going through a game development process despite lots of evidence indicating otherwise.

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Jst0rm
Sep 16, 2012
Grimey Drawer

Percelus posted:

why is there even an ignore button idgi

thats for people not willing to spend $10 a day to post on the forums.

ZenMaster
Jan 24, 2006

I Saved PC Gaming

They just need to release 'The Homer' in spaceship form with a PARRRRP horn for those close calls in the hangar and make both sides happy.

Also, following for a while but I missed the origin of Sandi and the hairy nethers and the wheelchair reference. Help me out?

it dont matter
Aug 29, 2008

ZenMaster posted:

Also, following for a while but I missed the origin of Sandi and the hairy nethers and the wheelchair reference. Help me out?

Escapist alleged Sandi turned down a potential hire because she looked like she didn't shave her chuff.

Wheelchair was a DSmart classic. He was discussing a guy talking poo poo about him online and all the trouble he'd be in if :woof: got involved, and posted a pic of the guy with the comment "that's him in the wheelchair".

it dont matter fucked around with this message at 01:25 on Nov 11, 2015

no_recall
Aug 17, 2015

Lipstick Apathy
Here are two JPEG's of space ships.





Ironically they cost $0.

Source: From Elite Dangerous livestream earlier today.

I Greyhound
Apr 22, 2008

MusicKrew Dawn Patrol
Here's an 80 page treatise on how all ships should have a 30 to 45 second minigame set each time you climb into them before you can fly somewhere.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2EZACiwECEpVjBKOTJpSHpaams/view

Chris Roberts doesn't have any plans for anything, so fans have to make them themselves.

D_Smart
May 11, 2010

by FactsAreUseless
College Slice

Loiosh posted:

Yes, it is very common because it is generally quicker (to get nicer results) than traditional key animation. For those who wonder, generally you want to do incidental animations via mocap (things that are unique and quick) and cinematics (Last of Us is a great example of this). You want to save things that are repetitive and players will see a lot for your best Key Frame animators. So things like run and walk cycles.

What happens now days is a studio will spend a day or more doing walk/run, climb, and jump up/down, ladder, mantle, etc animations with each main character actor. Then this is handed over to mocap cleanup where they fix issues with the animation curves and missing data. Once the basic cleanup is done, for those critical motions that will have a lot of use (walking, running, going into cover, standing in cover, crawling in cover, etc) you hand those to your key animators and let them refine them so they fit in your animation system and make them look alive. Meanwhile, on the mocap stage you do cinematic work. And then later do pick ups for incidentals (picking up a glass, picking up an item at rest, leaning, that kind of stuff) when you figure out things you can add into the engine without a big impact.

Usually this is done well after you have a skeleton and have rigged it for mocap. In the case of SC, they had to redo this a few months ago, which is why things looked so bad at Gamescom, but looked (only barely) better at Citizencon. Between those times they did a redesign on the player skeleton to support a better attachment system and then had to rerig the skeleton and -then- do mocap capture for the new rig and retarget whatever animations could be scrapped. It's one of those things like 64-bit level space, that flies under the radar of casual observers, but is a big tell that there are fixes going on under the hood. You generally never see this kind of information come out in the public. Most people don't even know that for Far Cry 2 (and 3!) the entire animation system was tossed out in the middle of development to fix it because Ubisoft didn't like the feel.

Sorry, that's just not true. Only games with triple-A budgets even bother with MoCap now. In fact, animation tech have progressed so much better now that you only really need MoCap if you're depending on fluid natural movement which simply can't be done with an animation engine.

my girlfriend is Legos
Apr 24, 2013

D_Smart posted:

Sorry, that's just not true. Only games with triple-A budgets even bother with MoCap now. In fact, animation tech have progressed so much better now that you only really need MoCap if you're depending on fluid natural movement which simply can't be done with an animation engine.

Sounds like someone couldn't afford a mocap studio

Blue On Blue
Nov 14, 2012

Ag Bengip posted:

Sounds like someone couldn't afford a mocap studio

:ssh: CIG can't afford one either (let alone 2) they just think they're unaccountable

my girlfriend is Legos
Apr 24, 2013

Sappo569 posted:

:ssh: CIG can't afford one either (let alone 2) they just think they're unaccountable

(Yes, that's what I was going for)

Dunite
Oct 12, 2013
I just realized that all of this time that Seraph has been called a pedophile, he has not once denied or admitted that he did something wrong.

Correct me if he did.

My point being is he clearly is a crazy person that would abuse a child if you left him in a room alone. And maybe some jpegs too.

Which brings me to another point, why does he have internet access?

D_Smart
May 11, 2010

by FactsAreUseless
College Slice

Sappo569 posted:

While checking to see if they've managed to file their accounts yet:







Noticed something strange on their officers listing

Every-time they signed Chris up, they changed something JUST slightly, so as to avoid being listed as an officer in multiple companies

And the lawyer (who should be very good with filling in documents) mixed up nationality with country of residence, along with mis-spelling his last name







Maybe they're not trying to hide something or conceal the fact they're all in cahoots together, but it sure looks sloppy either way. Especially for a 94 million dollar company(s)

Yeah, we're actually keep legacy aged records on those. And yes, changing the name slightly means that they don't look to be listed under several companies.

it dont matter
Aug 29, 2008

Loiosh posted:

I like comparing development to other games that have gone through major revisions in their own histories for comparison, which is why I mentioned Halo, Destiny and AC as examples of games that have had major revisions during their development. (One fundamental engine redesign with a complete art and asset scrap, one a complete story and MP redesign, and one a full art and asset scrap)

But those were made by people with a recent track record of finished products, not a washed up Hollywood wannabe who hasn't made a game for over a decade because he badly mismanaged his last project in a way that's so eerily familiar it's still amazing to me that so many people think jpegs of the sun shine out his arse.

You keep saying that we're just seeing these things because it's such an open development but...that's bollocks. CIG has the pretense of being open (and fair play it's another good bit of marketing) yet they are very careful about what they show and everything of substance we've seen that isn't playable has yet to be proven to be anything more than smoke and mirrors. Croberts stands on stage waving a script the size of a phone book then plays a video of constipated Gary Oldman and nobody questions where the actual core of the game is. If it's not related to making money now it's all just a big question mark.

Revealing the inner workings of game development is not anything unique in the era of the Kickstarter project. Difference being other games have a clear direction resulting in tangible progress. After 4 years and however many millions of dollars all Star Citizen has is a terrible arena shooter and a 3d chat room that looks like it was slapped together by scifi fans in Second Life. Oh, and glitchy buggies, arguably its strongest feature.

D_Smart
May 11, 2010

by FactsAreUseless
College Slice

alphabettitouretti posted:

But those were made by people with a recent track record of finished products, not a washed up Hollywood wannabe who hasn't made a game for over a decade because he badly mismanaged his last project in a way that's so eerily familiar it's still amazing to me that so many people think jpegs of the sun shine out his arse.

You keep saying that we're just seeing these things because it's such an open development but...that's bollocks. CIG has the pretense of being open (and fair play it's another good bit of marketing) yet they are very careful about what they show and everything of substance we've seen that isn't playable has yet to be proven to be anything more than smoke and mirrors. Croberts stands on stage waving a script the size of a phone book then plays a video of constipated Gary Oldman and nobody questions where the actual core of the game is. If it's not related to making money now it's all just a big question mark.

Revealing the inner workings of game development is not anything unique in the era of the Kickstarter project. Difference being other games have a clear direction resulting in tangible progress. After 4 years and however many millions of dollars all Star Citizen has is a terrible arena shooter and a 3d chat room that looks like it was slapped together by scifi fans in Second Life. Oh, and glitchy buggies, arguably its strongest feature.

^this

Plus, if they're so "open", why have they still refused to release financials as promised?

Mirificus
Oct 29, 2004

Kings need not raise their voices to be heard

Percelus posted:

that sounds boring
Seraph is boring.

it dont matter
Aug 29, 2008

Dunite posted:

I just realized that all of this time that Seraph has been called a pedophile, he has not once denied or admitted that he did something wrong.

Correct me if he did.

My point being is he clearly is a crazy person that would abuse a child if you left him in a room alone. And maybe some jpegs too.

Which brings me to another point, why does he have internet access?

He has denied it. It's up to you whether to believe the guy who has openly and frequently expressed his strong opinions about age of consent and the courting of underage girls on these very forums when he says he didn't molest that 11 yr old.

it dont matter fucked around with this message at 01:52 on Nov 11, 2015

Mr.PayDay
Jan 2, 2004
life is short - play hard
100, 200, 500, 1500 and more $ for ships in a Game that will never be released? lol

Whenever I get flamed for spending 3000 Euro every year for new Games, DLC and IAPs (Hearthstone Card packs, FIFA Ultimate Team Points, NBA2K16 VC, WoW Token, Mounts and Pets), I just link to the Star Citizen scam.
I may be a stupid whale, but I can play with my virtual stuff.

Amun Khonsu
Sep 15, 2012

wtf did he just say?
Grimey Drawer

I just cant think of a single thing I could spend my money on other than Star Citizen. You all are mad!

my girlfriend is Legos
Apr 24, 2013

alphabettitouretti posted:

He has denied it.

Has he, really? This might be nitpicking, but I don't think I've seen him say anything on the matter besides stuff like "prove it" and "you shouldn't believe everything you read online"

peter gabriel
Nov 8, 2011

Hello Commandos
I want to tickle Dereks belly

TehRedWheelbarrow
Mar 16, 2011



Fan of Britches

peter gabriel posted:

I want to tickle Dereks belly

what would that summon?

my girlfriend is Legos
Apr 24, 2013

SneakyFrog posted:

what would that summon?

:woof:

peter gabriel
Nov 8, 2011

Hello Commandos

SneakyFrog posted:

what would that summon?

:gary:

It is always :gary:

Or :woof:

TehRedWheelbarrow
Mar 16, 2011



Fan of Britches
do it do it dooo eeet.

CrazyTolradi
Oct 2, 2011

It feels so good to be so bad.....at posting.

Loiosh posted:

I like comparing development to other games that have gone through major revisions in their own histories for comparison, which is why I mentioned Halo, Destiny and AC as examples of games that have had major revisions during their development. (One fundamental engine redesign with a complete art and asset scrap, one a complete story and MP redesign, and one a full art and asset scrap)

Instead of comparing SC to other games, compare SC to the last project in gaming Croberts was leading up. Like, seriously, how can you not look at Freelancer and think Croberts is doing the same poo poo all over again. Constant delays, lackluster presentations and feature/scope creep were the hallmark of Freelancer's development. Microsoft had to then step in, kick Croberts out and tell the dev team to finish the game with what was actually possible to do.

A project is only as good as it's management allows it to be, and Croberts hasn't had a successful project in the last 15 years. You can't even count Freelancer since he had to be forced out to get the thing to ship, had he stayed on it's highly probable Freelancer would have become vapourware. Digital Anvil was also involved in the special effects in his crap effort Wing Commander movie, so it's not like him using CIG to launch himself back into Hollywood is a bit of reach.

The difference between Freelancer and Star Citizen will be that no publisher will want to touch Star Citizen with a ten foot pole when this is said and done. All they have to show is a poo poo ton of ideas which aren't hard to come by and a jumble of modules that aren't even interconnected in any way. When you ask the question "What if" in regards to any SC release, you'd be better of asking "What if it rained money in 30 seconds?", go outside and stand there with a basket/bucket. You'd have at least the tiniest chance of the latter maybe possibly happening.

peter gabriel
Nov 8, 2011

Hello Commandos
Hey I got some of those robotic fish that swim around in a little fish tank, they are fish alright in a way but with batteries

Loiosh
Jul 25, 2010

D_Smart posted:

Sorry, that's just not true. Only games with triple-A budgets even bother with MoCap now. In fact, animation tech have progressed so much better now that you only really need MoCap if you're depending on fluid natural movement which simply can't be done with an animation engine.

Sorry if I was not clear, that was my implication, but I did not state it directly. GTA (V and IV), Halo, Last of Us/Uncharted 3, Star Citizen, Second Life (lol, but really, but lol), Call of Duty, The Witcher, Mass Effect 2/3. Those kind of games are what I was referring to for making use of mocap.

Just as a counter-point, my favorite key-animation game is Ghost of a Tale. Lionel Gallat's game is lovely in motion. You can see his skill come through as he used to work for Dreamworks and Universal animation teams and his work is gorgeous. Here's a 2014 trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUBr7mdw-YA

peter gabriel
Nov 8, 2011

Hello Commandos
The thing with motion capture is it is very expensive and unless something unbelievable happens like I dunno, a poo poo load of nerds give you millions of dollars there's no way you gonna be using THAT bourgeois fuckin AAA tech no matter how good your uber loving la de da space sim is, no sireeeeeeeeee

fuctifino
Jun 11, 2001

e: nvm

fuctifino fucked around with this message at 02:24 on Nov 11, 2015

peter gabriel
Nov 8, 2011

Hello Commandos
The last big project I was involved in was taking a massive crap and that went well, on time, on budget and almost no broken promises

peter gabriel
Nov 8, 2011

Hello Commandos

THE loving CADS!!!!

3
Aug 26, 2006

The Magic Number


College Slice
Guess this got lost in the noise, but guess who's decided that the diagetic holo-interface from Elite is actually cool but not nearly complicated and unintuitive enough
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRZNPH_81QM

it dont matter
Aug 29, 2008


No, that's their return. Their accounts remain overdue. You can view the return for free on companies house: https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/08815227

Blue On Blue
Nov 14, 2012


They've filed their annual return, which is basically a 'our officers are these people: and they hold this many shares of the company'

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/08815227/filing-history/MzEzMjk1NzkwMGFkaXF6a2N4/document?format=pdf&download=0

It is their 'accounts' that haven't been filed, the actual money portion

Unless I'm wrong and don't know how to read the page

fuctifino
Jun 11, 2001

Ooops. I stand corrected.

:gary: PAAARP!

Loiosh
Jul 25, 2010

CrazyTolradi posted:

Instead of comparing SC to other games, compare SC to the last project in gaming Croberts was leading up. Like, seriously, how can you not look at Freelancer and think Croberts is doing the same poo poo all over again. Constant delays, lackluster presentations and feature/scope creep were the hallmark of Freelancer's development. Microsoft had to then step in, kick Croberts out and tell the dev team to finish the game with what was actually possible to do.

So, in answer to this, I never played Freelancer. I wasn't a fan of Wing Commander beyond WC 1, as I preferred the storytelling out of Lucasarts games (X-Wing, Tie Fighter). M.A.N.T.I.S. ... lol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XF5700_Mantis ug, one of my worst purchases ever.

Independence War (I, II), FreeSpace (1, 2) and Nexus were the things I followed. I missed Freelancer, WC 2,3,4 and Privateer.

In regards to your point about history, finding examples like that is a bit more difficult. The industry is relatively young and tends to burn people out, finding people who return is rare. Jordan Mechner, Roberta Williams, Tim Schaffer, Derek Smart, Peter Molyneux, Ron Gilbert, John Carmack, Sid Meier, Will Wright are some of the names I can think off the top of my head who were around at that time and involved in design. So, I'd have to agree with you, in terms of finding an example of a designer who left gaming for 10 years, then returned, I cannot think of an example off the top of my head.

Warcabbit
Apr 26, 2008

Wedge Regret

alphabettitouretti posted:

Forever Free is a direct sequel. Forever Peace is a spin off in the same universe. It's not great overall but does some interesting speculation on the future of warfare.

More Joe Haldeman talk - check out Tool of the Trade. Not his best or best known work but it's a fun, quirky little book and only a short read.

I had forgotten that. Thank you.

no_recall
Aug 17, 2015

Lipstick Apathy

Loiosh posted:

So, in answer to this, I never played Freelancer. I wasn't a fan of Wing Commander beyond WC 1, as I preferred the storytelling out of Lucasarts games (X-Wing, Tie Fighter). M.A.N.T.I.S. ... lol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XF5700_Mantis ug, one of my worst purchases ever.

Independence War (I, II), FreeSpace (1, 2) and Nexus were the things I followed. I missed Freelancer, WC 2,3,4 and Privateer.

In regards to your point about history, finding examples like that is a bit more difficult. The industry is relatively young and tends to burn people out, finding people who return is rare. Jordan Mechner, Roberta Williams, Tim Schaffer, Derek Smart, Peter Molyneux, Ron Gilbert, John Carmack, Sid Meier, Will Wright are some of the names I can think off the top of my head who were around at that time and involved in design. So, I'd have to agree with you, in terms of finding an example of a designer who left gaming for 10 years, then returned, I cannot think of an example off the top of my head.

Same

Warcabbit
Apr 26, 2008

Wedge Regret

D_Smart posted:

Sorry, that's just not true. Only games with triple-A budgets even bother with MoCap now. In fact, animation tech have progressed so much better now that you only really need MoCap if you're depending on fluid natural movement which simply can't be done with an animation engine.

Derek, I'm afraid you're a bit behind the times. I'm doing mocap with my bottlecap level budget. Needs some cleanup, but it's cheap, easy, and fast.

Admittedly, I'm using a pair of Kinetcts, but it's still fun!

I also got a guy who'll do specific animations with a full suit for me for a very reasonable price.

By the way, I've found a new (ish) space game. Beat Hazard. It's a shoot 'em up based on the tempo of the music you're playing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBCOEp-ittk

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Good Dumplings
Mar 30, 2011

Excuse my worthless shitposting because all I can ever hope to accomplish in life is to rot away the braincells of strangers on the internet with my irredeemable brainworms.

Loiosh posted:

So, in answer to this, I never played Freelancer. I wasn't a fan of Wing Commander beyond WC 1, as I preferred the storytelling out of Lucasarts games (X-Wing, Tie Fighter). M.A.N.T.I.S. ... lol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XF5700_Mantis ug, one of my worst purchases ever.

Independence War (I, II), FreeSpace (1, 2) and Nexus were the things I followed. I missed Freelancer, WC 2,3,4 and Privateer.

In regards to your point about history, finding examples like that is a bit more difficult. The industry is relatively young and tends to burn people out, finding people who return is rare. Jordan Mechner, Roberta Williams, Tim Schaffer, Derek Smart, Peter Molyneux, Ron Gilbert, John Carmack, Sid Meier, Will Wright are some of the names I can think off the top of my head who were around at that time and involved in design. So, I'd have to agree with you, in terms of finding an example of a designer who left gaming for 10 years, then returned, I cannot think of an example off the top of my head.

For that matter, he pulled the exact same crap with Strike Commander, coming in like a year late with nothing to show for it. StarLancer might've been on time - it's hard to say, given that nobody seems to remember that that game exists - but even then it had a bunch of pointless cruft, like how EVERY carrier's menu had to be a set of prerendered movies and how every briefing had to have its own movie render. At this point it's probably harder to find a project he didn't end up being a liability to.

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