Loiosh posted:

I seriously doubt they have it stable enough to release by then.

AP posted:

...logically there has to be a limit to how long this can continue.

AP posted:

Yeah probably, but they need the November sale to raise millions or it's going to be obvious to even the most deluded fan that the ship is sinking. It's a fairly big roll of the dice on their part if they don't ship something. It's possible that Citizens might stop paying for concept art, as crazy as that seems, logically there has to be a limit to how long this can continue.

Tijuana Bibliophile posted:

As much as I hate saying it, I think you're giving them too much credit. Citizens capable of simultaneously holding the views "heh, CIG is hiring, take that you pleb doomsayers, everything is obviously fine" and "CIG is firing, obvious signs that development is getting close to finished " will just see it as a mild challenge of their beliefs and come out of it with stronger faith than ever.

AP posted:

CIG will be aware of the danger, if you consider the new CCU system, military ships and a referral program, CIG had a larger sale in terms of items sold in October than ever before. That's why I think they are going to throw everything they have at this sale, they can't continue just to tap the whales and expect to raise the cash that's expected for November.

Tippis posted:

The funny thing is, if they actually did have a QA process and really were moving forwards towards some actual game content, it would be trivially easy for them to take this as a launching point for taking control of the message and reversing it completely.

Include a “blooper reel” segment that takes the funniest bug(s) discovered in QA and show it to the world. Have the programmers discuss what's happening and why — get really technical and nerdy. Steal the thunder from all the janky-glitch-GIFs and turn it into a “ha ha, that was funny… maybe we should keep that bug” piece of self-deprecating comedy (the forums would eat it up; I can see the polls to keep particularly hilarious screw-ups already). For bonus points, if development should accidentally happen at some stage, they could even do re-visits to see how “boring but pretty” it is when the bugs are fixed. It would demonstrate an interest, passion, humour, and level of… I don't know… gamer-ness that is woefully lacking at the moment. I have yet to meet anyone who likes a game who can't also laugh uproariously at the hidden broken details in that game.

Of course, that would require that they have a sense of humour, as well as the distance needed for that kind of self-deprecation — neither of which I believe they can pull off. Not even going into the pseudo-conspiracy theory of there being no development to show off, I think they're so hung up on preserving the image of The Perfect Game (and, somehow, The Perfect Game Development) that no mistakes are allowed to be seen. If they weren't, they could live up to the much-vaunted (but largely absent) idea of having an open development process, while at the same time pull the rug from under the feet of people who use bugs and similar jank as evidence of poor quality at this stage.

Octopode posted:

You appear to be describing roughly something they have been doing for a while now, their Bugsmashers video series, which began as a segment on AtV and has since been spun off into its own recurring video series.

Octopode posted:

You appear to be describing roughly something they have been doing for a while now, their Bugsmashers video series, which began as a segment on AtV and has since been spun off into its own recurring video series.

AP posted:

Yeah probably, but they need the November sale to raise millions or it's going to be obvious to even the most deluded fan that the ship is sinking. It's a fairly big roll of the dice on their part if they don't ship something. It's possible that Citizens might stop paying for concept art, as crazy as that seems, logically there has to be a limit to how long this can continue.

Octopode posted:

You appear to be describing roughly something they have been doing for a while now, their Bugsmashers video series, which began as a segment on AtV and has since been spun off into its own recurring video series.

quote:

Void Stalker, on 30 Sept 2015 - 06:26 AM, said:
The Three Things that MUST happen at CIG.

Consumer confidence is everything to the crowd-funded juggernaut that is Star Citizen. Hopes and dreams of everyday people have built an empire, a million citizens strong, and the only thing holding it together is the promise of open honesty in pursuit of a lofty goal. I am among the backers of this project, having put in $830 of my own money into seeing Star Citizen become a reality. My comments below are in response to the ongoing controversy as expressed and exposed on multiple fronts, and as a concerned backer who wishes to see Star Citizen come to fruition by ending the publicly growing discourse.

If everything is indeed above board, then these demands should be easy enough to meet. If the situation is not above board, and there has been either mismanagement or deception, then actions must be immediately taken to correct the problems, less the entire project collapse.

Concern One: Where the Money Goes

The openness for Star Citizen has been a limited affair in a singular but critical aspect, the use of the $90+ million-dollar budget. Though the funding totals have been made publicly available, any real or actual accounting, budget, or even cursory mention of where any of it has gone, has been hidden from the public, and by all accounts, even internal review. A great deal of trust has been placed in Chris Roberts, and many have taken him at his word on the state of the finances for the project for years.

With the recent allegations of financial malfeasance by a very vocal Derek Smart, along with a public pattern that appears to be a series of financial cutbacks, layoffs, and insourcing due to budgetary concerns, these financial issues must be addressed. At a minimal level, backers must demand a top level balance sheet be made available, a financial business plan for use of the current funding, and the proposed milestones that are attainable with the expected funds that are projected prior to release. Though it has been stated by Chris Roberts on several occasions that CIG has enough money already set aside to complete the game, the current controversy is enough to raise doubts in the minds of many. Putting this demon to rest is the first and most crucial issue that will restore confidence in CIG. Failure to address this in an open and honest way will harm the project, and perhaps, lead to its demise.

Concern Two: The Sandi Situation

I have never met Sandi. I don’t know if she is simply misunderstood in the public eye, or if there are even deeper issues than apparent. I also don’t know for sure if Chris and Sandi are married or in a relationship, as the public assertions go. It has not been disclosed anywhere that I am aware. The same can be said of her resume and education. Though, there are a lot of unknowns, the rumor mill seems to assert that there is a strong indication of impropriety in her qualifications and education, as well as a toxic work ethic at best. At worst, a deceptive campaign to hide nepotism, geared toward making a personal profit from the backers of the project is strongly alleged by Smart. (And I honestly hope that isn’t the case.) Backers must demand an open and honest statement about her status and credentials.

Sandi is a senior member of the management team, and these issues cause a lack of confidence in the overall public image of CIG. Though I am not calling on backers to call for Sandi to immediately resign, which she shouldn’t do if all of these allegations are unfounded, I do believe the rumors must be addressed on all points. If there is indeed some type of conspiracy to conceal nepotism, or impropriety, then yes, she must resign, and CIG must find a suitable replacement from outside of the company.

Concern Three: The Micro Manager

Chris Roberts has been alleged to have an ego and a grand vision. I will argue that you can’t have a career like his without it, and it is perfectly reasonable. Chris Roberts is also likeably humble, at least in public, and that is a rare quality. These things are not really an issue, unless ego, and the “vision” that goes with it, gets in the way of producing a backer-funded product on time and on budget. This is where the allegations of extreme micromanagement come in to play, and must be addressed.

So what is really happening? Resignation letters and public statements seem to reveal a gross level of micromanagement the likes of which would make Steve Jobs blush. Even taken with a large grain of salt, it appears that there is something to this, and that it is putting Star Citizen’s timetable, budget, and overall artistic vision, not to mention talent retention, in extreme danger. And that is something that simply must be addressed, and backers must demand that it be addressed soon as evidenced by the exodus of key talent.

The remedy to this issue is not clear. Perhaps a detailed explanation of the process and procedures used to approve work should be made available, as a level above the current reporting generated in the “open” development process. If there is a real issue, perhaps some form of managerial or process buffer needs to be put in place to assure that talent is able to be fully utilized to complete their tasks efficiently. We, as backers, have put real money down to make sure Chris Roberts sees his vision take form. However, if that vision and its overall needs, are too great to be met with the available time and budget, then we must demand some action be taken to assure that the project is able to be finished, no matter if that means an additional level of oversight be put in place to assure that it happens.

In closing, my opinions here are just that, opinions. However, where there is smoke, there is often fire. Some may argue that I am taking a “kid gloved” approach to my concerns. Maybe so, but I feel strongly that a measured approach is the best approach, especially if there has been no wrong doing, or even a modest level of mismanagement. I also feel that with this level of demand that CIG should be able to easily respond to it honestly if everything is above board. Of course, nothing will happen if no one else makes the same demands I outline here, so please consider this a call to action to ask for open accountability.


(Also, excuse any typos, I am part of the spell check generation.)

Raskolnikov posted:

The future is grim, but the video game faithful press on!

I wonder what the cultists think when they play finished games. Like is there a nagging thought that "this is how it's supposed to be" or something like that. Does it eat at them when they stare at the ceiling of a super eight hotel.

peter gabriel posted:

Do you think QVC would show blooper reels of their lovely kitchen gadgets malfunctioning? No, it's the same here, think of this as QVC, not a game. Nothing relating to game dev is relevant here, it's all a sales pitch.
Look at Loiosh's last post, he's a nice guy but still, 90% of his post is about pondering about spaceships - the sales pitch works.

Raskolnikov posted:

The future is grim, but the video game faithful press on!

I wonder what the cultists think when they play finished games. Like is there a nagging thought that "this is how it's supposed to be" or something like that. Does it eat at them when they stare at the ceiling of a super eight hotel? Maybe they have acid reflux when they have a donut the n next morning. "Hum when will my favorite spaceship be finished?"

peter gabriel posted:

Do you think QVC would show blooper reels of their lovely kitchen gadgets malfunctioning? No, it's the same here, think of this as QVC, not a game. Nothing relating to game dev is relevant here, it's all a sales pitch.
Look at Loiosh's last post, he's a nice guy but still, 90% of his post is about pondering about spaceships - the sales pitch works.

Loiosh posted:

You should see the poo poo I used to write about Flight Sim X. Simulator fans tend to be an odd breed. I went though a 'phase' for a few years going deep into commercial airline fun. FS2Crew, PMDG 737 and 747, WxRad, CloudFX, updated NOTAMS and STARS, VATSIM, scenery, Radar Control 4 and Voice Control to top it all off.

I've been doing virtual crap since Papyrus Racing on my first computer, IBM PC XT. That's where it all started: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indianapolis_500:_The_Simulation .. driving backwards on the 10 lap version to see how big I could get the wrecks.

peter gabriel posted:

Nothing relating to game dev is relevant here, it's all a sales pitch.
Look at Loiosh's last post, he's a nice guy but still, 90% of his post is about pondering about spaceships - the sales pitch works.

Amun Khonsu posted:

I must have missed this from Void Stalker posted on the Descent Underground forum.

Raskolnikov posted:

Same tbqh

Loiosh posted:

You should see the poo poo I used to write about Flight Sim X. Simulator fans tend to be an odd breed. I went though a 'phase' for a few years going deep into commercial airline fun. FS2Crew, PMDG 737 and 747, WxRad, CloudFX, updated NOTAMS and STARS, VATSIM, scenery, Radar Control 4 and Voice Control to top it all off.

I've been doing virtual crap since Papyrus Racing on my first computer, IBM PC XT. That's where it all started: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indianapolis_500:_The_Simulation .. driving backwards on the 10 lap version to see how big I could get the wrecks.

peter gabriel posted:

AP posted:

Yeah, I've gradually moved from having severe reservations about how much of their pitch is actually possible to doubting that there'll ever be anything at all of substance. Now I just enjoy watching CIG try to judge how best to raise the most money without making it too obvious to the believers.

AP posted:

Yeah, I've gradually moved from having severe reservations about how much of their pitch is actually possible to doubting that there'll ever be anything at all of substance. Now I just enjoy watching CIG try to judge how best to raise the most money without making it too obvious to the believers.

If they do throw lots of 890 Jumps, Javelins and Alien ships into the November sale it's going to be pretty funny if they don't sell out, it's something they have to judge very carefully. Too few you don't make as much cash, too many and people might start to question if spending $2500 on a piece of concept art was wise.


who he?

Duckaerobics posted:

I don't think they want to show any real progress (or make any for that matter), because that would ruin the illusion of being the greatest game of all time.