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DoctorWhat posted:OH WOW Seems like you're grasping a bit for something to be outraged at.
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Nov 15, 2015 02:30
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Yeah, not exactly the best role for your first trans actress, but I guess I was just happy that there's a trans woman appearing on the show at all that I didn't really think about it too much. Baby steps I guess  I thought the episode was pretty good apart from the abrupt non-resolution.
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Nov 15, 2015 02:31
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I liked the setup, I liked the "we don't have helmet cams bit," sleep eye sand mucus monsters was a dumb explanation but I was willing to roll with it. That could have been a pretty good episode if it had an actual ending but it really did feel like they just stopped short.
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Nov 15, 2015 03:00
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Box of Bunnies posted:Yeah, not exactly the best role for your first trans actress, but I guess I was just happy that there's a trans woman appearing on the show at all that I didn't really think about it too much. Baby steps I guess I haven't seen the episode, was it a person that just happened to be transexual, or was the fact she was transexual rammed down your throats?
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Nov 15, 2015 03:09
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Her character wasn't transgender, she was instead a vat-grown slave with brute strength and a limited vocabulary.
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Nov 15, 2015 03:10
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Sad King Billy posted:I haven't seen the episode, was it a person that just happened to be transexual, or was the fact she was transexual rammed down your throats? I had no idea she was trans. She was supposed to be a vat-grown super soldier though.
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Nov 15, 2015 03:12
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CaptainCaveman posted:I liked the setup, I liked the "we don't have helmet cams bit," sleep eye sand mucus monsters was a dumb explanation but I was willing to roll with it. That could have been a pretty good episode if it had an actual ending but it really did feel like they just stopped short. I guess there wasn't an ending because the show was from the POV of sand cameras on the station, and they were destroyed at the end? So they didn't see whatever happened next, and maybe the Doctor fixed the problem?
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Nov 15, 2015 03:15
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So, basically a Twilight Zone episode, except with cameos from Clara and the Doctor. Cool, I can dig it. My main problem is that it was complicated in all the wrong places -- the dust monsters can't see, but they're being used to watch people by another dust monster who's telepathically communicating with his dust monster "children" in order to create a scary movie that'll go viral so that people will turn into dust monsters. There's very little rhyme or reason to all of that. Plus, this was the bad kind of shaky-cam, rather than the good kind. So much of how good the show looks these days is thanks to the careful camera set-ups, and so when you've got the camera swinging all over the place the entire thing ends up looking tacky. Shame -- the few times the camera was allowed more controlled movements, it looked pretty good. I think a big part of the appeal of found-footage (for me, anyway) is the physicality of the camera. You feel like the camera's actually an object in the scene, one that the characters acknowledge and play with it. For the most part, not to much here -- a few knowing glances into people's eyes and stuff, but that's about it. I get that it's a set-up for the kind of twist Gattiss wanted to play with, but the way I see it, it just neutered a lot of the fun of the concept. On the other hand, I thought the episode was one of the few times the show's gotten close to being scary, and was believably tense for most of its length. So as a tone piece, which is what this episode was mostly going for, I thought it was successful.
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Nov 15, 2015 03:17
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It was clearly unpolished but I liked it overall. The ending is underexplained but I think it's fairly easy to infer what happened. Rassmussen was trying to create an exciting viral video about a news item that everyone would want to watch, and the episode as it played out was just a false narrative he constructed for the purposes of that video. It's kindof a cheap "it was a gameshow all along!" ending but I think it worked into the found footage gimmick OK and there were a lot of heavy-handed hints towards before the reveal. Of course the ending sequence kindof undermines that, but that's probably just for our benefit as viewers so we have some chance to understand what happened. Maybe he'd edit it out before uploading it to spaceyoutube. Or maybe you forget that bit IDK.
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Nov 15, 2015 03:19
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the grunt plot-line was completely pointless. lady: they're bred to be the perfect soldier. clara: that's horrible. doctor: yep. the end.
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Nov 15, 2015 03:20
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One thing I DID love: The absolute terror of the invasion of sleep by the capitalist engine of dehumanizing evil. That's the good poo poo, Doctor Who. If you could be that furiously, righteously angry about the inhumanity of capitalism while also being good, well, that'd be just swell.
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Nov 15, 2015 03:21
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While the ending was cheap I don't really mind the possibility of a future threat being left hanging. They do that occasionally (eg in Blink).Open Source Idiom posted:My main problem is that it was complicated in all the wrong places -- the dust monsters can't see, but they're being used to watch people by another dust monster who's telepathically communicating with his dust monster "children" in order to create a scary movie that'll go viral so that people will turn into dust monsters. There's very little rhyme or reason to all of that.
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Nov 15, 2015 03:32
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*shoots antagonist* "Is that your answer to everything?!" *literally first time gun has been fired* Very very very rough episode. If it had been polished a bit more could have been not only extremely scary for the kids, but an extremely good ep.
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Nov 15, 2015 03:42
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So... is Clara doomed now? She slept in the Morpheus machine so what about her? They made a big deal out of how this is a huge problem and then just... forgot about it? What about all the machines on the surface on the planet? Why were there no sandmonsters there? Apparently everyone is using them! It's like the episode ended halfway through. Everybody (!) died, nothing made sense, nobody got saved, nothing was resolved and the Doctor just kinda shrugged it off like it's no big deal. Whoops, mission failed I guess, teehee. Horrible, just horrible episode. My wife had trouble following the plot, I personally hated the shakycam and found it tedious to watch, and my son... I'm not really sure if he got any of it. But he probably got scarred for life by the ending, so there's that. Thanks, Mr Gatiss. My favorite part was somehow the grunt character. The only sincere character portraing any human emotions the entire episode. I think the "robotic", lifeless nature of the soldiers was a big chunk of what made this episode such a bore... Edit: oh yeah, and as mentioned right above me - what the hell is the deal with a group of trained soldiers carying weapons, pointing them at everything and everyone, but not pulling the trigger once in face of danger? This seemed so out of place for me that at first I thought the episode was censored due to what happened in Paris. But the second part shows a weapon being used so... what's up with that? dark_archon fucked around with this message at 03:46 on Nov 15, 2015 |
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Nov 15, 2015 03:43
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They established that the machines on the station had been "upgraded". Presumably the ones on the surface just give you the eyecamera dust rather than monstrofying you. e: I feel like there was almost a reasonable thematic link through this episode - the danger of treating people as economic drones. It wasn't entirely clear that was Rasmussen's motive though, he probably should have said "these dust monsters have higher productivity!!" or something. Irony Be My Shield fucked around with this message at 03:49 on Nov 15, 2015 |
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Nov 15, 2015 03:47
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If this was written as a two-parter but then cut short, it makes sense. As is, it's pretty bad. Another low for the series, but not Zygon Invasion.
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Nov 15, 2015 03:54
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Yeah, but then at the end the guy claims he lied about everything he said, that the process did not change since the beginning like he claimed etc. So... What was up with that then. Why go all the way for such a deliberate ruse for no real payoff. The whole thing seems like a confusing mess to me. I think I'll need to rewatch it to make any sense of it. But this will have to wait as it's 3am here in the UK. If only one could get a full night's sleep in just 5 minutes...
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Nov 15, 2015 03:54
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He said it was still spread by a visual signal rather than contact, but presumably the signal he used changed.
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Nov 15, 2015 03:56
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Oh, right. Must have missed that part then. Makes sense!
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Nov 15, 2015 03:58
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Why didn't he just broadcast the signal? Like.. calling a rescue party seems counter-intuitive. Just broadcast the video.. "Hi welcome to the latest Morpheus update! YOU'RE ALL hosed!"
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Nov 15, 2015 04:05
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^^^ exactly!dark_archon posted:Yeah, but then at the end the guy claims he lied about everything he said, that the process did not change since the beginning like he claimed etc. The process remained the same, but the signal embedded in the video would lead to a sandman creating chain reaction, maybe? It was hard to follow, the guy lied a lot and also was turning into dust so he may not have been thinking clearly. Obviously that guy knew nothing about viral videos though. Time and productivity is so important to these people that they don't sleep anymore, so who has time to watch a 40 minute shaky cam video? If you want everyone to watch it as soon as they hear about it, then it shouldn't be more than 5 minutes long. And the signal that turns you into a sandman producer should be at the beginning, not the end, because no matter how great you think your masterpiece is some people are going to turn it off after 10 seconds.
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Nov 15, 2015 04:08
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DoctorWhat posted:One thing I DID love: I got there about two seconds before the episode did. Of COURSE if we developed that the powers that be would instantly revert society to a 16 hour work/8 hour leisure system. I think Bethany Black in the role is fine, because the episode is clearly on her side in the 'are supersoldiers people' debate. It's just that Gatiss devotes like, two lines to that entire idea that's the problem.
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Nov 15, 2015 04:10
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Angela Christine posted:^^^ exactly! He should've just put it in the first second of a rickroll.
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Nov 15, 2015 04:10
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That electronic blip shows up a lot of times throughout the episode, including right at the start. The body of the episode is to encourage people to share it with their friends and family (again presumably the last part is not actually in his finished product) to make it go viral. By the time you actually start watching it you're already super hosed, and it's even in the episode a bunch more just to make sure.
Irony Be My Shield fucked around with this message at 04:21 on Nov 15, 2015 |
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Nov 15, 2015 04:14
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Well, I enjoyed that episode, but it totally won't hold up on a rewatch. That's a 2spooky episode for the children. STEVEN MOFFAT WANTS YOU TO BE AFRAID OF FOUND FOOTAGE FILMS, LITTLE TIMMY. I did like the moment where things start to be seen from Clara's perspective, and I went WAIT CLARA DOESN'T HAVE A CAMERA. I seriously entertained the idea that everyone's eyes were being hacked somehow, which I wouldn't put past this show. The truth was somewhat close, but weirder, and I'm still not fully sure I understand it. I guess I'd have to go back and watch for that one guy not having any POV shots, because I didn't notice it until after it was pointed out, and then I saw that the POV was from his gun. So I assume there was a grain of Sandman on his gun??!?! The ending makes no sense, outside of the TWIST about Rasmussen being a Sandman all along, which was blatantly foreshadowed when the Doctor talked about the Sandmen evolving in form. but the recording containing the infection? so, wait, does it...what if...I.... I....  EXPLAIN. EXPLAIN. EXPLAAAAAAAIN. 
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Nov 15, 2015 04:19
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Spatula City posted:STEVEN MOFFAT WANTS YOU TO BE AFRAID OF FOUND FOOTAGE FILMS, LITTLE TIMMY. About time that he uses this power for good instead of
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Nov 15, 2015 04:25
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This was not a good episode of Doctor Who. Also, what the gently caress happened with that super soldier and the fire again? Because like, his(?) face was badly burned, which makes zero sense. Why does that make zero sense? Because fire, much like eye crud, does not work that way. Like, what so ever. To get those kinds of burns the Grunt would have had to of taken a brief nap in the fire, just really laid down in it and let it do its magic. Fire isn't this super acid that destroys whatever it touches. Hell, with how pathetic that fire looked, unless you were covered in gasoline soaked rags, I bet you could WALK through it without much issue, just getting, maybe, first degree burns on your legs maybe at best. Might singe your hair. If any adult actually ran through that fire? They'd be fine. Also Gun=Club? Why? Many things will gently caress up a gun- briefly being acquainted with heat for like a second is not one of them. Now is this kind of pedantic? Sure maybe. I mean to really buy the whole thing you have to have a super simplistic childish logic of FIRE BAD BURN UP IF TOUCH and then ignore the fact that only the Grunt's face was messed up. And the gun apparently(?) But the thing is, this wasn't even the low point of the episode. All of these questions, all of these weird little things that just make you want to wonder aloud, they're all over the entire thing. Who the hell designed the regular Morpheus machine to be able to just grab people whenever the gently caress it wanted? How do you develop the eye gunk if YOU NEVER GO TO SLEEP AND THUS NEVER HAVE YOUR EYES CLOSED LONG ENOUGH TO DEVELOP IT. How did they develop into sentient entities? How can they see? How can they hear? How are they able to move and create humanoid bodies? gently caress you magic bullshit did it. That's Doctor Who in a nut shell nowadays. I really wish it wasn't.
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Nov 15, 2015 04:36
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Burkion posted:Now is this kind of pedantic?
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Nov 15, 2015 04:38
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It went for a really weird Aliens x Found Footage Genre angle. Helmet design was pure Alien Marines, and at one point a guy even gets out the classic motion detector. Which would have been fine, but they didn't even nail any of the genres.. - Highly trained marines don't know not to physically assault their clonetrooper comrade who's programmed to respond to ANY act of aggression. - Clonetrooper programmed to respond to ANY act of aggression. - Monsters on one side, easily hurdable fire on the other, gun in my hand "I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO!" Also were they trying to go with clonetroopers being the Daggers from Seaquest DSV of all things with the makeup and childlike persona?  Remember Dagwood? This whole episode is a bloody goddamn mess. Which is a shame because there is a really really good episode in there, that only needed some script pruning and set polish.
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Nov 15, 2015 04:38
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Then I direct you to the second part of my message. The writing was garbage. The best part about it was the idea of the villain presented at the end- THAT could have been an unsettling force through out the episode. Instead he's shoved in at the back and we get treated to sub standard Goosbumps monsters.
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Nov 15, 2015 04:40
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The complaints about "magic" are worthless but this episode is still bad.
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Nov 15, 2015 04:48
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Sentinel Red posted:Calling it now: Clara wakes up and swears never to have a marathon Portal, Doom, System Shock and Alien: Isolation session ever again. Glad someone else felt like that, ugh. The Sandman musical pun was quite the sledgehammer.
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Nov 15, 2015 04:54
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Burkion posted:Who the hell designed the regular Morpheus machine to be able to just grab people whenever the gently caress it wanted? How this happened was super bad editing as well.  The Doctor is standing right next to here looking at the Morpheus box, camera pans away to soldier asking about his mate over comms, cuts back to the thing closing. Two questions: 1.) Why would the Doctor look away from the box? He normally wouldn't be interested in this what so ever. New tech I haven't seen vs guy using comms he's been using for the last 5min to no avail 2.) I know we're on a limited budget, but could we not show some grabby tentacles or Clara being pulled into the box? It was really loving wonky.  Why are the girls facing upwards, wouldn't they be facing downwards? Also what's the go with the ship AI showing up for one whole "SING THE SONG" schtick. Do you have to sing the song at every door? Holy gently caress that would be annoying. WHY DID NOONE USE THEIR GUNS?!  Gah, the more I think about this episode the more I hate it.
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Nov 15, 2015 04:55
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To be fair he did tell us not to watch this video. He warned us. We can never unsee it.
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Nov 15, 2015 05:01
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I really like the central thematic concept here- that in yet another attempt to maximize worker productivity we've found a way to turn men into monsters- but they probably could have found a slightly stronger implementation than monsters made of eye boogers. Having said that it was pretty effective overall. An interesting use of the found-footage format that didn't feel contrived.
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Nov 15, 2015 05:14
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The saddest thing is, this could have been an excellent episode of Who. How? One easy way. Flip the script and remove the big reveal at the end. Instead of having, literally, worse sand monsters than in an episode of Goosebumps, I am not joking about that, have the Professor himself be the villain from reel one. Mr. Sandman himself. Play up the paranoia, the body horror they briefly touched on at the end, have him able to shift forms, take different identities. Then as a mid point, have there be a dilemma where there are two of one person and then reveal they're both him. That in his quest to remove a basic facet of humanity in the inane, pointless gesture of efficiency, he has found a way to bring all into one. Have the group get scattered early on for whatever reason so that after this point, no one is sure who is real and who is not. Ratchet up the paranoia. All the while the Doctor is left with a dwindling party of whom he's not sure who to trust, including his own Companion- and she the same of him- and a Nightmare that wants to bring a dream to all of humanity. Himself. A nightmare that he can't harm, can't fight, can't kill. A nightmare that has turned the very computers of the ship against the Doctor and is taking his time letting the pieces fall. You can even retain the gimmick, just have the view point be bits of the Sandman himself. Have the Doctor construct the video from the footage, send it out to the solar system at large, warning them about the danger of sacrificing humanity for corporate bullshit. Warning them to stay away from this place wherever it may drift. Mr. Sandman Bring them a dream Make him the cutest They've ever seen Your lonely nights Are Over Would that have been so difficult?
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Nov 15, 2015 05:29
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That sounds like an absolutely 100% different episode
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Nov 15, 2015 05:31
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Irony Be My Shield posted:That sounds like an absolutely 100% different episode That's because it doesn't involve boogermen who shamble around uselessly and instead the actual threatening villain that got like 50 seconds of screen time at the very end.
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Nov 15, 2015 05:34
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Well I actually liked it. It was basically a horror/scifi in space with the Doctor co-starring. It may not have felt very Doctor-Who-ish at times, but I'm fine with the mixing it up at times. The ending was a little muddled, but i liked it in a pulpy horror way. I know it's cool and everything to hate this season of Doctor Who for some reason, but aside from the first part to the Zygon thing and anything having to do with Osgood, I have really liked this season. Capaldi is killing it.
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Nov 15, 2015 05:39
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enigmahfc posted:
I love it when people do this. It's like they can only see the negative reactions and not the positive ones. Or the fact that the thread has largely been positive towards the majority of this season barring one episode that was profoundly negative and even it had defenders. It's so great
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Nov 15, 2015 05:43
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