OhDearGodNo posted:Nice dodge. It wasn't a dodge, it was the only response you deserved. None of the conclusions I've posted are hard to reach if you read through the mountains of information available, but no, there's no nice clean source that compiles it all in one place, and I'm not going to take the time to make one for you. Frankly, you've shown that you don't take the time to try and understand information even when it is presented to you, repeatedly, and your response to someone trying to impart new information to you is hostility, which is depressing to watch.
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Nov 15, 2015 06:17
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Amun Khonsu posted:Theyve been saying this for 3 yrs. At some point ppl have to tilt their heads and question wtf is going on with this "framework" It's surprising because it's gone from CIG moving goalposts (polished pre-alpha) to completely changing them (FPS now 2.0) and eventually just questioning why people keep attacking them with ridiculous things like "promises" or in a more professional sense "progress."
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Nov 15, 2015 06:19
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Octopode posted:It wasn't a dodge, it was the only response you deserved. None of the conclusions I've posted are hard to reach if you read through the mountains of information available, but no, there's no nice clean source that compiles it all in one place, and I'm not going to take the time to make one for you. Frankly, you've shown that you don't take the time to try and understand information even when it is presented to you, repeatedly, and your response to someone trying to impart new information to you is hostility, which is depressing to watch. Ad hominem. e: asking you to source claims you make regarding inside information on a company is not an attack by the way. Again, source your quotes.
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Nov 15, 2015 06:20
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Octopode posted:It wasn't a dodge, it was the only response you deserved. None of the conclusions I've posted are hard to reach if you read through the mountains of information available, but no, there's no nice clean source that compiles it all in one place, and I'm not going to take the time to make one for you. None of your inventions have any rational basis in known facts. This state will continue until you make at least a modest attempt at proving otherwise. Your claims are baseless and inherently false until you make them otherwise. So yes, it was a dodge in every sense of the word.
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Nov 15, 2015 06:20
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Nov 15, 2015 06:21
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lol. I'll give Karl a pass on that one because I don't think he's Native English. Does not explain the numbers thing though. Why are you so angry Karl?
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Nov 15, 2015 06:27
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Octopode posted:That's because they've intentionally limited playable portions to the art stuff that's finished. Compare not only the list of ship assets finished versus planned, but the fact they have completed 0 of a planned 100+ star systems, each with individual landing zones and planets and the like, with only two of those even partially completed. Plus NPCs, clothing, ship components, etc. They have a tremendous amount of outstanding assets. Almost none of the art stuff is finished, and what they've released as "playable" is still a WIP. The Cutlass is a perfect example. Programming drives a significant portion of the assets that have to be made. For ships alone you have flight mechanics, boarding mechanics, damage model, docking mechanics, interior gameplay considerations, and a host of other things that should have been finalized on gray boxes long before we had flyable starships. Instead CIG has wasted a significant amount of time and money having to redo things that were once considered to be in their final form. Three years (really four) into development we still have a limited understanding at best of every major game mechanic that's supposed to be implemented even though people are flying their pretty starships and running each other over in buggies. That's like trying to build a car at the same as as while God decides what the Laws of Physics should be. Not only does CIG have a tremendous amount of outstanding assets, they also have a tremendous amount of waste.
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Nov 15, 2015 06:28
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A Neurotic Jew posted:The biggest problem with this, aside from the fact that you don't seem to have any evidence you can point towards, is that you've already agreed that trying to build a "persistent universe" out of different gameplay models can cause additional unforeseen problems that no one can account for. You can make up a schedule that points towards the programming time being shorter than the time it takes to make assets, but it's all depending on this technical marvel somehow coming together even though there is no proof of concept whatsoever and no way to ensure how long the debugging will take. I'm not sure what your reasoning behind the statement that there isn't a proof of concept whatsoever is, so I can't refute it; it's been demonstrated pretty publicly. If it's based on the collective idea that the demonstrations were all smoke and mirrors, I won't bother to argue the point because there's not a rational argument capable of countering that belief, I'll just wait for the release to do it. But as far as the overall completion, it's not too hard to take the concept for the finished game, dissect it into required component systems and their relative complexity, and compare that against what's been demonstrated thus far to get a rough idea of completion and how far they have left to go.
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Nov 15, 2015 06:28
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Octopode posted:It wasn't a dodge, it was the only response you deserved. None of the conclusions I've posted are hard to reach if you read through the mountains of information available, but no, there's no nice clean source that compiles it all in one place. So, what your are saying is that CIG could compile from their sources a current state of the game document which would explain their current issues in an acceptable way... but they don't. Jesus! they are even more incompetent than I thought.
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Nov 15, 2015 06:29
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Octopode posted:But as far as the overall completion, it's not too hard to take the concept for the finished game, dissect it into required component systems and their relative complexity, and compare that against what's been demonstrated thus far to get a rough idea of completion and how far they have left to go. If it's relatively easy, why do they refuse to give release estimates, why did the FPS module that they've been promising all year get indefinitely delayed, and why have they missed so many release dates? Because of art assets?
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Nov 15, 2015 06:33
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Tippis posted:If there really are mountains of information available, it should actually be trivially easy for you to provide at least some sources for portions of your claims. Instead, you offer none, and it is often in direct contradiction to dev statements that have been sourced. Here's the source starting at the beginning, have fun. I don't notice you two demanding relevant source material for the claims here that reinforce your own vision of how things stand, or providing them, which is why I'm convinced you're only interested in them as a waste of my time, rather than out of any actual want for sources.
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Nov 15, 2015 06:34
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My evidence for the fact that CIG does not know how long it will take to program Star Citizen: They repeatedly state they don't know how long it will take to debug Alpha 2.0. They refuse to give release dates. Everything they've ever put a release date on has been delayed. OK your turn.
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Nov 15, 2015 06:41
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Octopode posted:CIG really does not have a very deep bench on the programming side and never has--I'd guess only about 10% of their team are actually programmers, and they are spread very thin over different chunks and systems, so a single loss is a significant chunk of their total manpower. I would be surprised if they have more two or three people who have worked on the FPS portions in-house. This is what you need to source.
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Nov 15, 2015 06:42
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A Neurotic Jew posted:My evidence for the fact that CIG does not know how long it will take to program Star Citizen: look it's super easy,just use youre brane
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Nov 15, 2015 06:47
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Octopode posted:I'm not sure what your reasoning behind the statement that there isn't a proof of concept whatsoever is, so I can't refute it; it's been demonstrated pretty publicly. If it's based on the collective idea that the demonstrations were all smoke and mirrors, I won't bother to argue the point because there's not a rational argument capable of countering that belief, I'll just wait for the release to do it. But as far as the overall completion, it's not too hard to take the concept for the finished game, dissect it into required component systems and their relative complexity, and compare that against what's been demonstrated thus far to get a rough idea of completion and how far they have left to go. In other words, you're making poo poo up and have no clue. You wrote all of that just to say you're making guesses and really don't know. The reason you get poo poo on is not because you're defending SC. There's another goon that does and nobody laughs at them. The goon doesn't post ad hominem responses, doesn't post about things they don't know, and doesn't sugarcoat things with paragraphs of random boilerplate.
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Nov 15, 2015 06:50
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Seems like a legit, independent, un-biased source to me!
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Nov 15, 2015 06:51
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Nope. There's a reason why onus probandi is a fallacy. So you do it, and have fun. Until then, your unsourced nonsense remains unsourced nonsense, and the link you provided offers absolutely zero support since it contains no information whatsoever other than the copyright statement at the very end. quote:I don't notice you two demanding relevant source material for the claims here that reinforce your own vision of how things stand Tippis fucked around with this message at 06:55 on Nov 15, 2015 |
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Nov 15, 2015 06:52
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Octopode posted:Here's the source starting at the beginning, have fun. That's some weapons-grade  right there
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Nov 15, 2015 06:53
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OhDearGodNo posted:In other words, you're making poo poo up and have no clue. You wrote all of that just to say you're making guesses and really don't know.
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Nov 15, 2015 06:55
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FrankieGoes posted:Well, huge in terms of empty space. I would assume that simulating empty space isn't really super difficult.
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Nov 15, 2015 07:05
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CrazyTolradi posted:Are we sure Octopode doesn't work at CIG? Octopode manages 3 datacenters while also moonlighting as a lawyer in trade law (hence his extensive knowledge with TOS enforcement) and only recently has begun to apply his expertise in programming. To be fair, he has more marketing experience than Sandi.
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Nov 15, 2015 07:07
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OhDearGodNo posted:Octopode manages 3 datacenters while also moonlighting as a lawyer in trade law (hence his extensive knowledge with TOS enforcement) and only recently has begun to apply his expertise in programming.
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Nov 15, 2015 07:09
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Daztek posted:
Sounds programming-intensive and also sounds like they haven't done much work on it yet. Here's hoping no crucial programmers jam their thumbs playing volleyball. Shimrra Jamaane posted:So how far along on the multiple alien languages do you think they are?
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Nov 15, 2015 07:09
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Octopode, when his poo poo posts flow.
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Nov 15, 2015 07:13
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Octopode posted:That's because they've intentionally limited playable portions to the art stuff that's finished. Compare not only the list of ship assets finished versus planned, but the fact they have completed 0 of a planned 100+ star systems, each with individual landing zones and planets and the like, with only two of those even partially completed. Plus NPCs, clothing, ship components, etc. They have a tremendous amount of outstanding assets. hahaha  i dont evenso the game is being held back by lack of art assets? lmao I guess it's only been years and they are still 0/100 on star systems because of their lack of art assets. surely they are on track to release soon.
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Nov 15, 2015 07:16
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OhDearGodNo posted:This is what you need to source. What? The ratio of programmers to artists? That should be obvious on its face to anyone that's kept up with CIG communications over the years, but for some examples, just look at the F42 office breakdown, the the F42 DE staff introduction, the  wiki list of employees, the list of devs that post on their forums, the collection of LinkedIn profiles posted earlier in this very thread for Austin employees, their Meet the Devs video series, and the Monthly reports series breaking out people by discipline. That's the problem, here, there's no cohesive source like you want, it's a synthesis of information from dozens of places spanning years of different sources, and I'm not going to go through the effort of finding them for each point for someone who opens up asking me for the information with an insult. Yes, you get ad hominem responses. That's because the reason I don't want to do the homework for you is because you're an rear end about it even when someone does do it; there's no way but an ad hominem to convey that someone is a douche.
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Nov 15, 2015 07:19
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CrazyTolradi posted:Are we sure Octopode doesn't work at CIG? No. I work here. I manage operations for this and integration for this, while making sure that their stuff keeps working in here.
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Nov 15, 2015 07:26
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Oh cool, a meltdown 
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Nov 15, 2015 07:27
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:Oh cool, a meltdown You have low standards for a meltdown.
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Nov 15, 2015 07:28
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Octopode posted:No. I work here. I manage operations for this and integration for this, while making sure that their stuff keeps working in here. A self dox? Is this a thing now?
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Nov 15, 2015 07:33
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I'm sure DIA appreciates having a blabbermouth like you on staff.
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Nov 15, 2015 07:34
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Octopode posted:No. I work here. I manage operations for this and integration for this, while making sure that their stuff keeps working in here. either you're lying or super dumb, either one is pretty funny tbh
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Nov 15, 2015 07:37
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You know I wonder if Mad Catz being on the verge of bankruptcy lead to them developing the Star Citizen HOTAS http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2015/07/02/mad-catz-reports-debt-warning-and-additional-credit-to-ship-rock-band.aspx Gonna loving laugh if they've been stringing CIG along like CIG has been stringing along its backers and ultimately produce gently caress all
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Nov 15, 2015 07:44
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My already fairly low opinion about the "intelligence" community has diminished a lil' bit more.
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Nov 15, 2015 07:48
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Vire posted:Even if you broke both of your wrist and they just covered your hands in plaster couldn't you still code just by dictating to the computer with some voice to text program? The guy was a lead programmer, so I'd wager that he probably didn't do a whole lot of coding but instead delegated and checked the work of the programmers under him, coming up with processes, or help brainstorm solutions to process issues. And even if he did do programming, I'd rather go with him dictating to another programmer instead of voice-to-text, just because they're will be some understanding regarding the vagaries of the programming language.
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Nov 15, 2015 07:50
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Wouldn't selling new ships at 1-2 bucks a pop be more lucrative than hundreds? I mean, if every backer bought a new ship (if it was made affordable) when it came out that would be a million bucks, but funding is nowhere near that. Or is it epeen to have $pace$hip$? Oh man... it's epeen. gently caress.
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Nov 15, 2015 07:55
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SporkOfTruth posted:I'm sure DIA appreciates having a blabbermouth like you on staff. They don't generally raise a fuss about things that they released to the press years ago. Cat's pretty well out of the bag on those.
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Nov 15, 2015 07:58
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Octopode posted:You have low standards for a meltdown. Naw self-doxxing to "win" an Internet slap fight over a space ship scam is pretty funny.
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Nov 15, 2015 08:02
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ZenMaster posted:Wouldn't selling new ships at 1-2 bucks a pop be more lucrative than hundreds? I mean, if every backer bought a new ship (if it was made affordable) when it came out that would be a million bucks, but funding is nowhere near that. 1-2 bucks a pop only works if you sell them in volume. There is a limited amount of idiots buying JPEGs of space-ships and science modules for non-existent games so it wouldn't work.
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Nov 15, 2015 08:13
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why won't they put release dates on anything octopode. the release dates. this is a lawyer.
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Nov 15, 2015 08:18
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