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Tremek posted:No one should pay more than $15k for a base 996 right now. If you do, you're both buying the least-desirable 911 on the planet, and a fool parting with his money. Where are you finding these magical $15k 996s?
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Nov 16, 2015 00:29
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The Wonder Weapon posted:Is it at all possible to get a set of wheels for a Cayman that aren't silver or black and that cost less than $2,000? Is powder coating an acceptable thing to do? Powdercoated wheels are nice, and the finish is tougher than paint, but when it chips, you're SOL. There is no spot repair with powdercoat, unless you count a sharpie. I would also like a $15k 996. I can get past the headlights for that price.
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Nov 16, 2015 10:34
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They don't exist anymore. A year ago, I saw tons in the 13-17 range. Now they're all over twenty, which kills the value proposition they had. In the teens, they were interesting. In the 20s, I'll take a 'vette.
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Nov 16, 2015 14:29
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howling_mad posted:Where are you finding these magical $15k 996s? http://clients.automanager.com/020310/vehicle-details/1999-porsche-911-carrera-convertible-17c715234c1942e5a8e7681617abf643/ Here is a sketchy dealer with one that porsche screwed up by auto transmission and removable roof. Asking is 17,500 but they would probably fall all over a 15k offer. I don't think they are that hard to find but no one should be looking.
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Nov 16, 2015 17:21
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Elephanthead posted:http://clients.automanager.com/020310/vehicle-details/1999-porsche-911-carrera-convertible-17c715234c1942e5a8e7681617abf643/ Wow. That might be the worst example of the breed possible. And I'm not even referring to condition.
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Nov 16, 2015 17:37
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Motronic posted:Wow. That might be the worst example of the breed possible. And I'm not even referring to condition. Nice pictures though!
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Nov 16, 2015 20:18
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mafoose posted:Powdercoated wheels are nice, and the finish is tougher than paint, but when it chips, you're SOL. Well that's no good. I've definitely driven into the curb at least a handful of times over the last few years with my current wheels.
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Nov 17, 2015 04:09
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howling_mad posted:Where are you finding these magical $15k 996s? Just checking my local market, here and here? They're all over. A bunch at that pricepoint listed on cars.com too. Plus... Negotiation? This doesn't change the fact that it's still the least-awesome 911. At least get a 996t. Tremek fucked around with this message at 06:59 on Nov 17, 2015 |
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Nov 17, 2015 06:55
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Tremek posted:Just checking my local market, here and here? They're all over. A bunch at that pricepoint listed on cars.com too. Plus... Negotiation? This doesn't change the fact that it's still the least-awesome 911. At least get a 996t. There's a few there, I'll give you that. But 100k mile plus automatics are not exactly what anyone in this thread is looking for. I can only assume none of these gems have any documentation...as to be expected.
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Nov 17, 2015 15:50
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Tremek posted:Just checking my local market, here That's actually a pretty good deal. The listing states Automatic but it's clearly a 6 speed manual from the pictures. Lets not forget it's still a 911, let the haters hate.
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Nov 17, 2015 16:27
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Well, I think I'll be the first to show off my 944 here. This picture was taken not long after I got her, shortly before the paint started to go south.  The paint at its worst, shortly before a very thorough paint restoration!  Done! I'm sure I've got some better photos somewhere. As well as the paint, both sills and lower arches had to be replaced due to 25 years of being used in the winter by POs. I had no record of when the belts, waterpump etc were last done, so that was sorted a month ago, including a headgasket job, and cam chain+tensioner. The wheels were in a sorry state, so they got refurbed with new OPC center caps. The rubber seals are obviously not too great either, so I've already replaced the sunroof seal (hilariously, only944 sent an email saying the design they made doesn't work 100% of the time for water egress, and sent me out a new design... a week after I installed the fucker. Also got a pair of scraper seals for the door windows, but I think I'm going to take the doors apart entirely and oil everything as the electric windows are are very slow. Might as well do all the seals regarding the doors. Front bumper has to come off for a repaint, and also replacement of the front bumper mounts as a PO shunted it at some point, leaving the right side of the bumper 1/2 inch recessed into the body. My girlfriend shakes her head at how much I've spent, but I'm happy!
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Nov 17, 2015 16:57
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Encor3 posted:That's actually a pretty good deal. The listing states Automatic but it's clearly a 6 speed manual from the pictures. You're right, but you linked the wrong one: http://fortcollins.craigslist.org/ctd/5317067591.html
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Nov 17, 2015 17:09
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Encor3 posted:That's actually a pretty good deal. The listing states Automatic but it's clearly a 6 speed manual from the pictures. "It's still a 911" doesn't hold up too well in the face of the past 10 years of amazing cars that hold a tremendous amount of bang for the buck. While I'd drive a 996 Turbo, the 996 Carrera is outclassed in just about every way by very pedestrian stuff at the same price point today.
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Nov 17, 2015 18:04
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Tremek posted:While I'd drive a 996 Turbo, the 996 Carrera is outclassed in just about every way by very pedestrian stuff at the same price point today. 15k is still pretty cheap though. What's the competition -- slightly newer Boxster, S2000, fairly junky C5? Ignore the 4 seater part.
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Nov 17, 2015 21:05
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kimbo305 posted:15k is still pretty cheap though. What's the competition -- slightly newer Boxster, S2000, fairly junky C5? Ignore the 4 seater part. Not that you couldn't find any of this yourself, but if we start here: 1999 Carrera: 0–60 mph: 4.8 sec Standing ¼-mile: 13.4 sec @ 105 mph Curb weight: 3149 lb Skidpad: .90g Below are a few examples, but because I have other poo poo to do, feel free to expand the list? If they're on my local CL in this price range, then they're cheaper elsewhere in the country. Ask me how I know? I have flown for the last 6 cars I have bought, which includes a Cayenne Turbo, E55 AMG, Saab 9-7x Aero, Cadillac CTS-V wagon, BMW X5M, etc. Just starting with power/performance as a basic metric to compare against the 996; some advantages include forced induction or are highly moddable or tuneable; note this includes pretty much anything from the past decade with an LS drivetrain: 2003-2006 Mercedes E55 AMG - 4.7s 0-60 & 12.6 @ 116 2003-2004 Mustang Cobra - 'Terminator' - 4.5s 0-60 & 12.9 @ 111 1997-2004 C5 Chevy Corvette - 4.8s 0-60 & 13.2 @ 110 2004-2007 1st gen Cadillac CTS-V - 4.8s 0-60 & 13.2 @ 109 2004-2006 Pontiac GTO - 4.8s 0-60 & 13.3 @ 107 2007-2011 BMW 335i E90/E92 - 4.8s 0-60 & 13.5 @ 106 You could split these into 'more reliable and ~15k', 'better driving dynamics and ~15k', etc. and some of these would be on multiple lists. You go up to $20k and the competition becomes far more fierce - late-model Camaro SS, Mustang GT, Evos, STIs, E63s, Audi S4s, E60 M5s, etc. Again, many cars in the same price range that are highly competitive in various ways, and most aren't an IMS bearing-style failure away from requiring a drivetrain repair that costs more than the purchase price.
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Nov 17, 2015 21:58
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I dunno; of those cars, only the E92 and C5 fit the handling criteria that a 996 buyer might be looking for, and even then, it's not quite the same. They might be just as fast for fun driving, but I know I wouldn't cross shop a Terminator or GTO against a 996.
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Nov 17, 2015 22:10
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kimbo305 posted:I dunno; of those cars, only the E92 and C5 fit the handling criteria that a 996 buyer might be looking for, and even then, it's not quite the same. They might be just as fast for fun driving, but I know I wouldn't cross shop a Terminator or GTO against a 996. Can we agree that the main criteria for most folks will likely be a DD or 2nd car, with an occasional track day? With that said, only brand snobbery is preventing you from cross-shopping. They're about as equally suited as an occasional track or lapping day car (with the exception of the C5, which is head & shoulders the best track car of the bunch), all will hustle nicely on a back road, and all are decent DDs - including the 996 I will add. My point is it's not some magical unicorn of price to value, and will have easily the highest running/repair costs. Especially once you transcend the $20k mark, it looks less and less like a good value.
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Nov 17, 2015 22:28
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What's left on the list if you want mid or rear engine for the handling characteristics?
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Nov 17, 2015 22:35
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There's lots of sweet cars in that price range but some people just have to have a Porsche. Also I think the 0-60 time on the e55 is about half a second slow
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Nov 17, 2015 22:37
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Gorgar posted:What's left on the list if you want mid or rear engine for the handling characteristics? ... is there actually a RR car, other than a late-model 911, with desirable handling characteristics? MR's another thing... Speaking of illogical purchases, I'd buy this imminent failure 100/100 times over a 996. Remember that I'm not a Porsche hater - I have lusted after a 911 forever - but the 996 ain't a great value.  Curse you, 80s-kid upbringing!
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Nov 17, 2015 22:45
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Tremek posted:but the 996 ain't a great value. Guess it depends on what you want. If you want a 911, a 996 certainly is one. It's not one I'd buy personally either. If it makes someone else happy, cool. I thought about it, though. My first test drive was a '99 996, lots of miles, $17k. That convinced me I preferred 911s to Caymans, and I wound up with a 997 because I wanted a CPO car and the updates that came in '09, but the 996 was of course a lot cheaper. It was apparently right for somebody, because it wasn't there later. If I had room for two cars, I might have bought it and a beater truck or wagon, even though there are other cars with better numbers, none of which I am interested in.
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Nov 17, 2015 23:11
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Falken posted:Well, I think I'll be the first to show off my 944 here. Is that a turbo? I really love the 944 lines still, and red is just great. I'm sad I never managed to get my act together and own one when I could have made it work. Also see: 928s.
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Nov 17, 2015 23:20
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Tremek posted:Not that you couldn't find any of this yourself, but if we start here: I feel like all of those cars are apples to oranges. Curb weight: 2900 manual HORSEPOWER296 @ 6800 rpm TORQUE258 lb-ft @ 4600 rpm Those are still really impressive numbers. Thats 100 lbs heavier than a BRZ but with far more power, and a new one of those still costs $26000 (i also hate that i run into a white BRZ every day without fail and i only have a 10 minute commute). If the only important metric was 0-60 then no one would ever buy an frs/brz (unless your city is all grid style stop light to stop light driving, then you can look solely at 0-60). A toyota sienna would be a better drivers car in that case! Yes a C5 is fast but at the end of the day a C5 interior is a horrible place to be and its 300lbs+ heavier. (what use is going fast if your seats are made exclusively for 250lb 6 foot men) I went from 2002 mustang gt with kenne bell supercharger to a BRZ, and i have no desire to drive a 380hp new edge mustang ever again, it just cant turn for poo poo without dumping thousands into suspension mods. It was also only about 3500lbs, so it would totally qualify for your list. Is a porsche 996 a great choice? No, but to say that people will have close to as much fun on a track or mountain road with any of those other cars is a stretch. Brake fade is going to rear its ugly head on those 4000lb cars before you can blink, and the tires better be amazing because theyre going to be at their limits as well (if you have $1200 in pilot super sport cups its safe to say theyre going to lose about $100 a piece in one track day) coolskillrex remix fucked around with this message at 00:08 on Nov 18, 2015 |
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Nov 17, 2015 23:50
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coolskillrex remix posted:Curb weight: 2900 manual 2900 lbs before options and gas. In reality they're all 3000-3100 lbs+ with options and a tank of gas. If we're playing this game, I should have checked the national market - C6 Vettes are well under $20k now... Curb weight: 3200 lbs Horsepower: 400 @ 6000 rpm Torque: 400 @ 4400 rpm First year was 4.3 0-60, 12.8 @ 112, stock had .95g skidpad and gets almost 30mpg highway, and I'll let you guess which one has the best aftermarket on the planet for sports cars. Edit: re: your stealth edit: coolskillrex remix posted:I feel like all of those cars are apples to oranges. Your dollars are buying you apples with 4 wheels and an engine no matter what. Calling a Vette an 'orange' in this context is, as you say, absurd? Moreover I'll take a huge horsepower advantage in a 4-door behemoth any day over an anemic BRZ or pcar; at the Virginia City Hillclimb this year I ran a time of 3:51 in my 4400lb wagon whereas the guy in the BRZ turned in a 4:20. While I'm sure we were both having fun, I'm willing to bet I was having more fun! Tremek fucked around with this message at 00:13 on Nov 18, 2015 |
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Nov 18, 2015 00:07
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Tremek posted:2900 lbs before options and gas. In reality they're all 3000-3100 lbs+ with options and a tank of gas. The c6 is definitely the best bang for your buck by far. Also i wasnt saying the c5 was an orange, just that it was really the only apple in the group, but at the end of the day youre making significant trade offs with a c5. C6 fixes a lot of those. You have the CTS-V wagon correct? So that 4400lb wagon cost north of $65,000, while his car cost $25,000. I can think of 20 other new cars i rather have for $65000 on a hill climb than a cts-v wagon (and i love the v wagon, its probably the most useful car with the best grunt/handling out there, i always rubber neck when i see one on the road since theyre so rare). At the end of the day theres a lot of subjectivity that goes into cars. Lots of magazines prefer a 991 carrera to a 2015 c7 corvette, even though its black and white as to which one out performs the other AND which one is cheaper (so you would think it would lose out on both value and performance metrics).
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Nov 18, 2015 00:28
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Tremek posted:Is that a turbo? I really love the 944 lines still, and red is just great. I'm sad I never managed to get my act together and own one when I could have made it work. Also see: 928s.
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Nov 18, 2015 00:30
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Oh look, competitive car-owning. Isn't there a thread for that? I bet there's a BRZ thread. Do those guys know they bought the wrong car? Also, where were you when I had an MR-2? There were tons of options that went much faster, but like an idiot, I just enjoyed the balanced feel around the curves, and didn't once measure times for anything.
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Nov 18, 2015 00:32
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Numbers are great but I've driven a Mustang, Camero, Corvette, and Chevelle. I went with the 996TT above all of those for one primary reason. Front engine cars have awful sight lines. Every single one i've ever driven feels like i'm wearing blinders. In a 996 you have great front and peripheral vision, and a much comfier interior.
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Nov 18, 2015 00:41
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coolskillrex remix posted:The c6 is definitely the best bang for your buck by far. Also i wasnt saying the c5 was an orange, just that it was really the only apple in the group, but at the end of the day youre making significant trade offs with a c5. C6 fixes a lot of those. I bought used, and you can buy '09+ sedans for well under $30k now, putting them in the same price range as a BRZ. No brake fade either with 14" Brembos btw, which incidentally are dirt cheap as performance stuff goes. F&R OEM pads from Amazon for $50, Prime delivered, front rotors are well under $100 each, etc. MPSS are going to be similarly expensive for anyone. Agreed re: subjectivity - I'll be the first to tell you I want a 911 turbo of some variety someday, even if it's not by the number "the best" for X or Y. Thanks! Tremek fucked around with this message at 00:50 on Nov 18, 2015 |
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Nov 18, 2015 00:47
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M_Gargantua posted:I went with the 996TT above all of those for one primary reason. Front engine cars have awful sight lines. Every single one i've ever driven feels like i'm wearing blinders. In a 996 you have great front and peripheral vision, and a much comfier interior. Given how low you sit in sports cars, I've never felt like I could see over the front well that well. The AW11 is really the only MR car I've driven that can beat that rule by virtue of how short its snout is. Any old car beats any new car for A-pillars.
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Nov 18, 2015 03:38
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Falken posted:S2. Your very nice 944 just got nicer; well done. I don't have much to add to 996 chat other than if we're talking interior, it isn't that much better than the Vette. I'd put it on par with the C6. Tremek, plz buy that SE and start a thread. The Esprit is my childhood hero car but I can't justify buying anything I need to have a relationship with like that.
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Nov 18, 2015 08:14
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blk posted:Your very nice 944 just got nicer; well done. Yeah, that looks to be a nice example. Mine is old school-ish (first year of the new interior) 85.5.  Yep....hood/fenders/lights are all horribly adjusted. This was right after I painted it several years back. (and removed those horrible US bumperette extensions) Still haven't fixed it. I just don't care enough. I care more about the suspension and throwing it around corners, which is does very well.
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Nov 19, 2015 02:27
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Let's get to the very bottom of the 944 heap: 1983 base. No cat, fuel gauge didn't work, that harness in the engine bay kept getting loose and shutting off the motor, the sunroof leaked like crazy, leading me to drill holes in the pan to drain the water out. Sold working to another goon for $1250. I wonder if there's been a running Porsche sold for less in recent times.
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Nov 19, 2015 08:25
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I just bought an 08 Cayman with 30k miles (picking it up this weekend) and a co-worker started telling me about the IMS bearing issue. I had seen mention of it while researching the car but I didn't realize how catastrophic of a failure it was until he explained it a bit. What should I do? Are there reliable preventive measures? Am I 100% rolling the die on this? Is it so bad that I should cancel the purchase?
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Nov 19, 2015 16:26
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kimbo305 posted:Let's get to the very bottom of the 944 heap: I'd drive it. It's like a post-apocalyptic 944. Ninja edit: are you/is that in the US? I didn't think they were imported until MY84.
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Nov 19, 2015 17:07
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Motronic posted:I'd drive it. It's like a post-apocalyptic 944. Yeah, US. Mass, hence those rally looking snow tires. Wikipedia shows that even the MY1982 had a US spec motor, though I'm not sure how accurate that is. Afaik, it was an '83.
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Nov 19, 2015 17:35
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The Wonder Weapon posted:I just bought an 08 Cayman with 30k miles (picking it up this weekend) and a co-worker started telling me about the IMS bearing issue. I had seen mention of it while researching the car but I didn't realize how catastrophic of a failure it was until he explained it a bit. I wouldn't worry about it, but there is a retrofit if you are so inclined: http://imsretrofit.com/my06-08/
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Nov 19, 2015 19:56
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The Wonder Weapon posted:I just bought an 08 Cayman with 30k miles (picking it up this weekend) and a co-worker started telling me about the IMS bearing issue. I had seen mention of it while researching the car but I didn't realize how catastrophic of a failure it was until he explained it a bit. Battlegoat posted:The IMS issue is there, but the design was updated in '06 and is a much less common failure on cars of that year or newer. I bought an '08 S with 24k miles recently and my due diligence turned up really low failure rates. A retrofit is an unreasonably cost-prohibitive decision because it requires an engine tear down; with that kind of money you could afford a 981 and avoid this issue entirely. That being said, I love my 987 and have driven a friend's 981; the real perks are the hydraulic steering and smaller overall size. The dimensions are very noticeable despite being like a couple inches both axis, I have some side by sides somewhere. On top of that they're not making any more flat sixes and the new Cayman's loving blip the throttle for you on a downshift , so even if you drove a 987 till it detonated it'd still be glorious. Here's a pic of mine for encouragement, sorry I can't take pictures of cars for poo poo: 
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Nov 19, 2015 20:31
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Thanks for the feedback. I had a bit of a crisis this morning trying to decide what to do and I spent far too many minutes at work looking into it before calling my mechanic. His answer was that the internet makes it sound considerably worse than it is, and to just buy the car. So I'm going to. I also happened to find out about plastidip this morning and now I'm thinking what outrageous color I should dip the Cayman this spring.
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Nov 19, 2015 20:53
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Plastidip is hilariously awesome stuff. Plastidipping wrench handles is pretty useful. Wheels less so. If you're a function over form sort of person go ahead and dip. Protects well and is easy to repair. If however you want a beautiful car stick with the stock or get a proper powder coat.
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Nov 19, 2015 21:14
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