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tooterfish posted:Fair enough, that is a little. If bad posts are not relentlessly mocked, they will be encouraged to stay and multiply. Before you know it, this thread will be all about the lack of realistic fuel consumption for Space Battleship Yamato.
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Nov 17, 2015 10:52
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Wiz posted:If bad posts are not relentlessly mocked, they will be encouraged to stay and multiply. Before you know it, this thread will be all about the lack of realistic fuel consumption for Space Battleship Yamato. It was pretty funny how the thread went from "Lol look at those Para-nerds whining about a lack of fuel consumption and being all REALISM for MAI YAMATO" to "monoculture planets that specialize in producing a single resource in my space strategy game is UNREALISTIC!"
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Nov 17, 2015 10:54
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Wiz posted:Not my title, so I'm not going to go into design reasoning, only say that I think it works fine, especially with the sector-level stuff. Yeah but we still don't have any info on the later game modes. Most 4x games put the primary focus on planets throughout thr entire game and from what I can see (and paradox 's history) Stellaris is focused on the big picture with planets being a side show once you graduate to empire. Tomn posted:It was pretty funny how the thread went from "Lol look at those Para-nerds whining about a lack of fuel consumption and being all REALISM for MAI YAMATO" to "monoculture planets that specialize in producing a single resource in my space strategy game is UNREALISTIC!" It's not about realism. It's about being boring as poo poo. See every tile based space 4x ever.
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Nov 17, 2015 10:59
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I would expect it to be similar to EU4 in the beginning you pay attention to which province has which building, later on you might focus on important provinces CoTs/high profit resources. From what I read they didn't even say if there was an automated mode or not.
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Nov 17, 2015 11:08
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Wiz posted:Look one post above the one you just quoted. Well to be honest I was exaggerating on purpose, but apparently not enough. I am looking forward to Stellaris and have no real strong opinions on tiles (what I am really hoping for is that it's an experiment to try out new mechanics so they can be implemented in Victoria 3).
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Nov 17, 2015 11:32
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Victoria has a lot of really dumb mechanics and automation in strategy games is really bad. It's not a fix for anything and it just makes for bad design.
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Nov 17, 2015 12:09
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Wiz posted:Have you guys considered that switching from 'this will be the best ever' to 'this will be the worst ever' because of one DD about tile grid planets is just a little bit on the histrionic side? we've spent too much time looking at paradoxplaza. we have now become them.
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Nov 17, 2015 12:14
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Wiz posted:Have you guys considered that switching from 'this will be the best ever' to 'this will be the worst ever' because of one DD about tile grid planets is just a little bit on the histrionic side? paradoxplaza flips out over HoI4 supplies, SA flips out over Stellaris planet tiles. gaze too long into the abyss, etc. e: I swear I hadn't read the above post when I wrote this 
BBJoey fucked around with this message at 13:28 on Nov 17, 2015 |
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Nov 17, 2015 13:24
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Giggle Goose posted:I am honestly really curious about what kinds of DLC they end up releasing for this game. It seems to me that they could set it up to extend into the Cold War. I think that there are a lot of elements already in place that might make something like that possible, although they would need to flesh out peacetime mechanics a lot more. I want a World War One DLC instead. HOI seems much more suitable to the conflict than Victoria. Once you get beyond an Operation Unthinkable DLC, and maybe a Korean War goes global scenario DLC, I think the number of nukes makes the game unplayable. I hope someone makes a good WorldWar mod. So much more interesting a scenario than Turtledove's War between the States scenario.
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Nov 17, 2015 13:31
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I'm going to buck the trend and say that I'm actually glad that the dev team is focusing on planetary development and (hopefully) social development. I also don't mind more routine tasks (such as transferring goods to where they are needed) being automated so long as they still remain relevant and part of the game world - if I'm at war or something they'll still need to be factored in and defended or something, So many 4x games just turn into Tedious Naval Combat Simulator In Space and your planets and and actual empire management morph into a slider or some abstracted numbers off in the corner then the game becomes all about either fighting a war or making GBS threads out ships until you find someone to fight and it's boring. I like being able to lead the actual development of my nation, to see some customization and some flavour. If Stellaris goes the way the development diaries are indicating, there will at least be something to do inbetween picking your next fight. Also, I am glad to see in that last diary that the dark sides of planets will light up - I had no reason to believe they wouldn't but little pieces of eye candy like that are nice to watch. When I just want to look at pretty scenery in space games I usually look for a heavily populated planet and watch the lights come on as the planet rotates between day and night. Donno why, it just looks nice.
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Nov 17, 2015 13:54
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My combined 2500 hours in 4 different Paradox games mean they can do whatever the gently caress they want and I will most likely love it. Hoi3 was a dream and does not exist.
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Nov 17, 2015 15:29
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Pooned posted:
More like nightmare. I know they have learned from it but oh boy that was an ugly launch. The pdox thread att was all pitchforks and torches over that let down.
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Nov 17, 2015 15:38
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I dunno, the development tiles in this don't look too different from buildings in provinces in EU4. Maybe it's because I haven't played very many space 4X games, but EU4 was the first thing I thought of when I saw that screenshot.
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Nov 17, 2015 15:52
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Wiz posted:Look one post above the one you just quoted. Also, the people who aren't a fan of the tile grid might not be the same as the ones rubbing themselves raw in anticipation. Like, the tile grid system was like one of the first things people questioned when the game was revealed, alongside ship customization. Seems perfectly normal to me that people talk positively about the things they think sound great, and then go negative when a feature sounds tedious.
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Nov 17, 2015 16:12
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I'm not sure I like it either, but unless it's a feature that the game is built around, then I'm not too concerned. Paradox is treading lots of new ground here, so I figure they're bound to make a bunch of missteps. If it's something they can get right with an expansion or two down the line then it's not gonna ruin the game for me. With the ship designer too, both the problems I'm mostly concerned with for it (being entirely turrets and there being totally optimal builds) are things they should easily be able to work on eventually.
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Nov 17, 2015 16:18
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It really depends on how its executed in game. If it's like MOO2, where every turn is a dozen planets demanding you update their build queue, that would be bad. If it's like EUIV, where you've five hundred provinces with ~5 building slots apiece, but you're really just going in and enhancing certain places when you've got the extra resources, that's probably fine.
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Nov 17, 2015 16:19
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Koramei posted:I'm not sure I like it either, but unless it's a feature that the game is built around, then I'm not too concerned. Paradox is treading lots of new ground here, so I figure they're bound to make a bunch of missteps. If it's something they can get right with an expansion or two down the line then it's not gonna ruin the game for me. If ships have roles and aren't just linear upgrades I'll be happy. Fast flanking destroyers and capital ships to hold the line with smaller support vessels, some using spine mounted weapons to punch up.
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Nov 17, 2015 16:21
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The autism is strong in this thread.
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Nov 17, 2015 16:31
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Hitlers Gay Secret posted:The autism is strong in this thread.
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Nov 17, 2015 16:34
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A Buttery Pastry posted:comes across as needlessly defensive. It's a Wiz post so that's about par for the course.
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Nov 17, 2015 16:34
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The Paradox forum is coming from inside this thread.
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Nov 17, 2015 16:35
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We were paradoxplaza all along!
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Nov 17, 2015 16:52
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But when is Victoria 3 coming out?? I need my Concert of Europe MP.
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Nov 17, 2015 16:53
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Pretty dishonest to just zero in on one (clearly exaggerated) post, and pretend like it's representative, in an effort to ignore legitimate criticism. I realize it's not *your* game, but it still comes across as needlessly defensive. There was like 4 different posters before that saying something like "Oh no, pre-order canceled!" over the planet DD too, it seemed silly to me too.
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Nov 17, 2015 17:15
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If it sucks, I look forward to the whole system being redone in mid 2017.
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Nov 17, 2015 17:21
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Chief Savage Man posted:If it sucks, I look forward to the whole system being redone in mid 2017. We'll have Stellaris 2 like three dlcs in
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Nov 17, 2015 17:29
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Paradox is the only game dev in the world that would make less money if they sold season passes.
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Nov 17, 2015 17:35
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Wiz posted:Have you guys considered that switching from 'this will be the best ever' to 'this will be the worst ever' because of one DD about tile grid planets is just a little bit on the histrionic side? The devs could post about how they're implementing HoI3's supply system in Stellaris and that would not reduce my hype level about the game. It works both ways!
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Nov 17, 2015 17:37
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Darkrenown posted:There was like 4 different posters before that saying something like "Oh no, pre-order canceled!" over the planet DD too, it seemed silly to me too.
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Nov 17, 2015 17:51
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I'm not sure why its surprising, I recognize most of the people bellyaching (including myself) as calling our shots way back at the original announcement because there are ancient battlelines drawn about 4X civic development from before EU was a glint in Johan's eye.
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Nov 17, 2015 18:07
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its not that its unexpected, it that this thread was making fun of the paradox forums for the same thing immediately before hand
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Nov 17, 2015 18:14
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New Dev Diaries: Analyzing ... ...Analyzing... !!! !!Alert!! Planet tiles: Confirmed Oil supply tracking: Negative. Weather: Sky has fallen Hitler Mana: +152 megaHitlers Ability to feel human: 0.6% Pre-Orders: Cancelled Rum Supplies: !0! 
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Nov 17, 2015 18:16
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About to buy a new laptop, an 840m nvidia graphics card combined with a 5th gen i5 processor should have no problem running EU4, right?
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Nov 17, 2015 18:18
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I think there's a pretty clear distinction between 'I don't like this mechanic because it doesn't sound fun and I haven't enjoyed it in other games' and 'I don't like this mechanic because IT'S NOT REALISTIC ENOUGH'. Though I suppose from a grodnard's perspective, anything less than perfectly realistic is 'less fun' somehow. As far as Tiles go, I have no idea what to think about them because the diary is far too vague and we don't really have any understanding of the real scope of the game or how the scope changes as it progresses still. I feel like these dev diaries are a lot less helpful (and a lot more prone to confusion) when we're looking at a brand new game where we don't even really have a basic concept of the game flow or mechanics.
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Nov 17, 2015 18:21
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Mans posted:we've spent too much time looking at paradoxplaza. we have now become them. We were always Paradox Plaza just with communists instead of nazis and better English, honestly.
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Nov 17, 2015 18:26
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Demiurge4 posted:I personally thought Star Ruler was over simplified and pretty boring, it was basically the tile system with planets anyway since you were chaining modifiers. Tiles generally suck (see Galciv) and Stellaris's system doesn't look much better but we are aware that the game is supposed to open up in phases and it could be the tile system is simply a part of the early game to give the player something to do and is discarded for another system later. Star Ruler wasn't boring at all. Not an amazing game either, mind you, but it's definitely interesting to play if you make sure you play it on the more moderately settings. It does enough to subvert a lot of the core expectations in a space strategy game, and just 4Xs in general, that it at least deserves a special kind of recognition. If anything, even if you dislike the core game, a lot of what it does with the economy and diplomacy still has a degree of value as a kind of tool to help you think differently about how a strategy game or 4x should be designed. I'd even say that the game's main issue is that it doesn't go far enough; the fact that you still have planet tiles and the ship designer is a testament to this. I don't really feel strongly about how planet tiles are implemented in Stellaris. I guess I have the token "Well it might get micro-managey" concern, but that's hardly something that push me into "COLD BETRAYAL, PRE-ORDER CANCELLED" territory. I'm far more excited for POPs and the political aspects.
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Nov 17, 2015 18:26
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Chief Savage Man posted:If it sucks, I look forward to the whole system being redone in mid 2017. This was my exact initial response. "Sounds bad but they will rework it in 9-12 months if it's actually crap so who cares". I mean, I think stuff like that about a lot of game development decisions but Paradox are the only guys who seem to care about going back and fixing things that obviously don't work that great.
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Nov 17, 2015 18:27
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Gwyrgyn Blood posted:I think there's a pretty clear distinction between 'I don't like this mechanic because it doesn't sound fun and I haven't enjoyed it in other games' and 'I don't like this mechanic because IT'S NOT REALISTIC ENOUGH'. Though I suppose from a grodnard's perspective, anything less than perfectly realistic is 'less fun' somehow. Gwyrgyn Blood posted:As far as Tiles go, I have no idea what to think about them because the diary is far too vague and we don't really have any understanding of the real scope of the game or how the scope changes as it progresses still. I feel like these dev diaries are a lot less helpful (and a lot more prone to confusion) when we're looking at a brand new game where we don't even really have a basic concept of the game flow or mechanics.
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Nov 17, 2015 18:31
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Wiz posted:Have you guys considered that switching from 'this will be the best ever' to 'this will be the worst ever' because of one DD about tile grid planets is just a little bit on the histrionic side? I posted: Bort Bortles posted:Welp, officially off the hype train for Stellaris. I have never been posting "this will be the best ever" about Stellaris - I was excited that the company you work for announced they were making a space grand strategy game because I know they have incredibly talented developers like you on staff. However I immediately expressed misgivings about certain things, including the planet tiles. As I have read the dev diaries I have gotten less and less excited for the game. With the announcement of more info on planet tiles I am no longer have much interest in the game. I decided to share that opinion on this comedy internet forum in the hopes of seeing others opinions on the matter. Should I share more info every time I post? My mood, why I am thinking what I am thinking, why I dont like it, or what? Its not like I posted a tantrum or immediately said "I hate Paradox I cant feel human anymore" or something. AAAAA! Real Muenster fucked around with this message at 18:35 on Nov 17, 2015 |
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Nov 17, 2015 18:32
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Gwyrgyn Blood posted:I think there's a pretty clear distinction between 'I don't like this mechanic because it doesn't sound fun and I haven't enjoyed it in other games' and 'I don't like this mechanic because IT'S NOT REALISTIC ENOUGH'. Though I suppose from a grodnard's perspective, anything less than perfectly realistic is 'less fun' somehow. Well let me outline my unreasonable dislike of tile systems and endlessly stacking adjacency bonuses. When you play a 4x game your early game is usually devoted to finding colonizeable planets that are favorable to your species, you then develop these to make them productive and eventually they'll net you a positive on your investment. With tile adjacency bonuses you are encouraged to stack a planet wildly in one direction which can often mean that 90% of it's production is one particular resource like science, culture, food etc. What I don't like about this system is that the moment I colonize a planet that has a 20% research modifier and a +2 adjacency research bonus on a pair of tiles I'm obligated to go 100% in that direction. I kinda needed to boost my production a little because my fleets are lagging but if I don't develop this one planet in this direction I lose out in the long term. This means that planets are pre-determined when you find them rather than you developing it in a direction your empire needs at the time. This is further exasperated in games like Galciv where civilization wonders exist that give a flat 50% bonus to one production type on that planet. I would much rather colonize a planet and develop it in a variety of ways, not because it's realistic, but because it's enjoyable. If a planet has a tile bonus that gives extra research then great, I can plop a lab down on it but I'd rather make use of the generic tiles around it for the role I had intended. I outlined on an earlier page how adjacency bonuses can be tolerable (to me) by giving adjacency tiles "slots" so that a mine can only boost one adjacent tile and a factory can at most eat two bonuses from a mine. This discourages chaining one bonus across the entire planet and lets the player diversify.
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Nov 17, 2015 18:33
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