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G0RF
Mar 19, 2015

Some galactic defender you are, Space Cadet.

Beet Wagon posted:

"The day of judgement is soon upon us. It will be glorious and spoken of from the mouths of man for all of gaming history. (The sands of time have run out, son of Durotan)"

I really like when D_Smart goes all "mad prophet" and wish he would do it more. We should pitch in to get him a cloak and staff.



G0RF fucked around with this message at 17:38 on Nov 17, 2015

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AP
Jul 12, 2004

One Ring to fool them all
One Ring to find them
One Ring to milk them all
and pockets fully line them
Grimey Drawer

1500 posted:

lol they never lied about refunds.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-11-20-frontier-outlines-elite-dangerous-refund-policy-following-no-offline-mode-backlash

quote:

"Those who have already been playing the game online in the Alpha and/or Beta phases, regardless of whether they backed the project via Kickstarter or purchased access to Alpha and/or Beta through our online store, are not eligible for a refund."
eligible "having the right to do or obtain something; satisfying the appropriate conditions."

quote:

UPDATE 21/11/2014: Frontier has had a rethink and is looking again at its controversial Elite: Dangerous refund policy.
Frontier lied about peoples rights to a refund and backed down when called on it.
This is actually on topic since it's the Star Citizen thread.

1500 posted:

The fact is, it was not a cut and dry case like some people want to claim.

I can link you the cut and dried EU legislation if you like.

AP fucked around with this message at 17:33 on Nov 17, 2015

Berious
Nov 13, 2005

1500 posted:

LOL, No, I have been far more critical of FD and ED then positive. Perhaps you want to read what I said again? I didn't say they should not give refunds.

Bit even if people had been playing online for 1000 hours while offline didn't exist they'd be entitled to a refund. It's like if CIG promised PNGs and sent people JPEGs to tide them over while they were working on the pixels. They a few months later they turned around and said "Actually PNGs are too hard and you've been looking at those JPEGs all the time anyway so go gently caress yourselves". Not kosher at all.

1500
Nov 3, 2015

Give me all your crackers

AP posted:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-11-20-frontier-outlines-elite-dangerous-refund-policy-following-no-offline-mode-backlash


eligible "having the right to do or obtain something; satisfying the appropriate conditions."


Frontier lied about peoples rights to a refund and backed down when called on it.

This is actually on topic since it's the Star Citizen thread.

Ah I see, you don't know what a lie is. But at least you are right about one thing, this is a SC thread.

Beet Wagon
Oct 19, 2015





Chalks posted:

It's not "Haha, your ships are all going to be called dickbutt!", it's ""Haha, I have insiders telling me about your company, even things you've told people to keep secret!"

He keeps saying that he's got people telling him that the company is falling apart from the inside. People say "where's the proof that he's got people on the inside telling him things?" - well, him leaking the ship names is proof.

Right, but what I'm saying is if he leaks poo poo that is already pretty well known (the Crucible will be on sale for $350) or is at least incredibly obvious (The Caterpillar is going to go on sale for "Pirate Day") it doesn't actually help his credibility. Heck, even if one of the other two possible concept sales is the escort carrier or whatever, his leaking it probably won't surprise the shitizens, since they are speculating about it as is.


I'm just saying I don't see a lot of opportunity for super-secret-spy-man verification, is all.

AP
Jul 12, 2004

One Ring to fool them all
One Ring to find them
One Ring to milk them all
and pockets fully line them
Grimey Drawer

1500 posted:

Ah I see, you don't know what a lie is. But at least you are right about one thing, this is a SC thread.

Hey, sorry you're still mad about people getting a refund mate.

1500
Nov 3, 2015

Give me all your crackers

AP posted:

Hey, sorry you're still mad about people getting a refund mate.

And you are still making poo poo up and projecting. Its ok, some day you will wake up and take responsibility for your own feelings.

Libluini
May 18, 2012

I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...
Grimey Drawer

1500 posted:

And you are still making poo poo up and projecting. Its ok, some day you will wake up and take responsibility for your own feelings.

By his own logic, he is lying. Stop arguing with an evil liar, it's not worth it

peter gabriel
Nov 8, 2011

Hello Commandos
Lets all get angry grrrrr :argh:

peter gabriel
Nov 8, 2011

Hello Commandos
So mad right now, fuming

AP
Jul 12, 2004

One Ring to fool them all
One Ring to find them
One Ring to milk them all
and pockets fully line them
Grimey Drawer

1500 posted:

And you are still making poo poo up and projecting. Its ok, some day you will wake up and take responsibility for your own feelings.

What poo poo am I making up? I've linked the quote when they did it and I'd link the EU directive but let's face it you aren't going to read it. Refunds are important especially here, I've linked the law before. I don't see the logic in getting annoyed about people exercising their rights or even trying to deceive people that they don't have any. Why even try to do this, do you think you're helping Frontier, do you dislike the fact that persumably a small number of people did play elite for dozens/hundreds of hours and then get a refund?

Beet Wagon
Oct 19, 2015






Welp, now I'm gonna spend all day using my lovely MSPaint skills to put Derek's face on various pictures of prophets and/or jedi.

Google Butt
Oct 4, 2005

Xenology is an unnatural mixture of science fiction and formal logic. At its core is a flawed assumption...

that an alien race would be psychologically human.

Getting mad about video games, or even posting seriously about them might be a sign that you're a dweeb. Condolences

biglads
Feb 21, 2007

I could've gone to Blatherwycke



I can exclusively reveal the name of the new ship to be launched is the Cuckwulge.

My inside source also tells me that a new freighter is being developed as we speak (in MS Paint) and the working title is Depilator.

G0RF
Mar 19, 2015

Some galactic defender you are, Space Cadet.
Hey Bootcha:

A Redditor would like to know if you'll be attending the Austin Bar Citizens meet-up with Chris and Sandi. I'm guessing no.

But what I would like to know is if you will have your epic new video finished before the Star Citizen Livestream starts on Thursday.

Please say you will- that would make for a lovely apéritif.

Beet Wagon
Oct 19, 2015





"Soon the Great Journey shall begin. But when it does, the weight of your jpegs will stay your feet. And you shall be left behind."

Only registered members can see post attachments!

1500
Nov 3, 2015

Give me all your crackers

AP posted:

What poo poo am I making up? I've linked the quote when they did it and I'd link the EU directive but let's face it you aren't going to read it. Refunds are important especially here, I've linked the law before. I don't see the logic in getting annoyed about people exercising their rights or even trying to deceive people that they don't have any. Why even try to do this, do you think you're helping Frontier, do you dislike the fact that persumably a small number of people did play elite for dozens/hundreds of hours and then get a refund?

Ah more projecting, and making poo poo up. The sad part is you are so pissed off you can't even see it. Perhaps when you have calmed down and go back and read your own posts you will understand where you went wrong.

jaegerx
Sep 10, 2012

Maybe this post will get me on your ignore list!


Watch this time they'll tell people different ship names to find out who is leaking info to dmart.

Chalks
Sep 30, 2009

jaegerx posted:

Watch this time they'll tell people different ship names to find out who is leaking info to dmart.

Derek announces all the names and CIG has to fire its entire staff. We can only dream.

Berious
Nov 13, 2005

Google Butt posted:

Getting mad about video games, or even posting seriously about them might be a sign that you're a dweeb. Condolences

We all paid :10bux: to talk about vidya/cats/anime there's no shame in it. Unless you paid 10 dollars to be part of a space guild then you should kill yourself (in-game)

Tijuana Bibliophile
Dec 30, 2008

Scratchmo

1500 posted:

Ah more projecting, and making poo poo up. The sad part is you are so pissed off you can't even see it. Perhaps when you have calmed down and go back and read your own posts you will understand where you went wrong.

Calm down kids, you're both right

AP
Jul 12, 2004

One Ring to fool them all
One Ring to find them
One Ring to milk them all
and pockets fully line them
Grimey Drawer

1500 posted:

Ah more projecting, and making poo poo up. The sad part is you are so pissed off you can't even see it. Perhaps when you have calmed down and go back and read your own posts you will understand where you went wrong.

Still not sure what poo poo supposed to I'm making up as you don't appear to have an argument so I'll point out your comment below in bold and add Frontier granted every single refund in the end to the best of my knowledge.

1500 posted:

FD was in the right to not give refunds to people that put in 10's of hours of gameplay in a ONLINE ONLY game, sorry but you don't get to play the "well I only bought it for offline" if you have been playing online for that long.

neonbregna
Aug 20, 2007

Ag Bengip posted:

Are we talking about encrypting the predictions so that CIG won't adapt by changing the ships to dishonour Derek again? That would have made sense the first time, before CIG knew how real his source was. At this point, if they actually give enough of a poo poo, they'll just preemptively make the necessary last-minute changes to everything, thereby obsoleting all inside information without having to know exactly what Derek said. Changing some ship names is evidently not a lot of work.
Yet they still find a way to do it incompetently.

Hav
Dec 11, 2009

Fun Shoe

1500 posted:

Ah more projecting, and making poo poo up.

Those funny curly things after the statements are 'question marks'. They're interrogative and indicate a desire to have an answer supplied. It's a debate technique.

'Projecting' would tend to involve something to project upon, so a strawman or other construct.

You could answer the questions, but you don't. Why is that?

The EU in general has something known as a 'cooling off' period which is two weeks. It allows anyone who signed a contract the ability to walk away from said contract to remove the concept of coercion. That's really clear law.

Most member states have statutory rights of 1-2 years where the goods or service should perform. if the goods or service fail within this time period, you have the right to a repair or replacement. if the repair is made more than once and satisfaction isn't achieved, a refund may be given.

FD offered refunds when they said that they couldn't fulfill the offline mode, and people started to ask for them. I'm of the opinion that they attempted to do right by people, mostly because it's backed by EU law that _has been_ ratified by the member states, so I tend to treat complaints about FD 'pulling an SC' to be hyperbole.

edit: it's one of the reasons why EULA are contentious in the EU and only have a very tenuous link to the law. Disclaiming responsibility does not shield companies from the law, and in most cases you're asked to make the agreement before judging the fitness for purpose. it used to be easy to argue that software was a special case, but less so given the productization and ubiquity of applications now.

Hav fucked around with this message at 18:05 on Nov 17, 2015

Gwaihir
Dec 8, 2009
Hair Elf

D_Smart posted:

LOL!!! yeah. We buy Heinz salad dressing six bottles at a time. By the time it gets to 2 bottles left, I'm already freaking out and having panic attacks. Very few stores sell it on import. So often, I make the trek to a local British import store to stock up. When I am in the UK, I ship a box of 12 back to the US. Down in Florida, only one grocery store (Publix) sometimes has it in their "Ethic Foods" section. And usually it's all gone the minute it hits the shelf. Some Walmart stores also carry it from time to time.

Good stuff. Anyone who hasn't tried it, trust me, skip the mayo and get this. Some online British stores, as well as eBay and Amazon have it btw; but over-priced as expected. Google: "heinz salad cream"

Publix owns super hard.

Berious
Nov 13, 2005

D_Smart posted:

LOL!!! yeah. We buy Heinz salad dressing six bottles at a time. By the time it gets to 2 bottles left, I'm already freaking out and having panic attacks. Very few stores sell it on import. So often, I make the trek to a local British import store to stock up. When I am in the UK, I ship a box of 12 back to the US. Down in Florida, only one grocery store (Publix) sometimes has it in their "Ethic Foods" section. And usually it's all gone the minute it hits the shelf. Some Walmart stores also carry it from time to time.

Good stuff. Anyone who hasn't tried it, trust me, skip the mayo and get this. Some online British stores, as well as eBay and Amazon have it btw; but over-priced as expected. Google: "heinz salad cream"

I'm tickled that this random thing is a delicacy abroad. Derek how do you feel about marmite and have you tried it on a grilled cheese sandwich?

Hav
Dec 11, 2009

Fun Shoe

Berious posted:

I'm tickled that this random thing is a delicacy abroad. Derek how do you feel about marmite and have you tried it on a grilled cheese sandwich?

I worked in Burton-upon-Trent, and every Wednesday was maltings day. The Marmite factory was two doors down from the Bass brewery, and the entire town reeked of marmite.

I loving hate Marmite. Worcestorshire sauce for grilled cheese, though...

Gwaihir posted:

Publix owns super hard.

Better than Albertsons, at least.

1500
Nov 3, 2015

Give me all your crackers

Hav posted:

Those funny curly things after the statements are 'question marks'. They're interrogative and indicate a desire to have an answer supplied. It's a debate technique.

'Projecting' would tend to involve something to project upon, so a strawman or other construct.

You could answer the questions, but you don't. Why is that?

The EU in general has something known as a 'cooling off' period which is two weeks. It allows anyone who signed a contract the ability to walk away from said contract to remove the concept of coercion. That's really clear law.

Most member states have statutory rights of 1-2 years where the goods or service should perform. if the goods or service fail within this time period, you have the right to a repair or replacement. if the repair is made more than once and satisfaction isn't achieved, a refund may be given.

FD offered refunds when they said that they couldn't fulfill the offline mode, and people started to ask for them. I'm of the opinion that they attempted to do right by people, mostly because it's backed by EU law that _has been_ ratified by the member states, so I tend to treat complaints about FD 'pulling an SC' to be hyperbole.

Because half his post is nothing more then BS on his part and ad hominem. It is clear, from his ranting for multiple pages now, that he is still pissed at FD for the refund thing. But he attacks others, projecting his own anger.

The funny part is that he is so pissed he can't even see what I am talking about.

No one took FD to court, so saying that FD backed down because of EU law is just made up BS. The far more likely scenario is that FD is new to self publicizing their games, they had to create a policy for selling games. So they picked one that is similar to a lot of other companies, also one that would protect them from people that would want to play for hours while in Alpha and Beta (paying more for that) and then asking for a refund so that they could purchase at a cheaper price. But it was a crap policy, and so FD changed it.

Despite AP's rantings and BS, I really don't care if FD give out refunds or not, that is their business and their money. Not that AP will, after all it would contradict this fantasy he has created, on the FD forums I have said that people that purchased the game for the offline option do deserve a refund, but determining who really purchased just for the offline and who are trying to get a better deal is not an easy thing.

It is built into kickstarter that the project will change, and so you are not entitled to a refund.

1500 fucked around with this message at 18:14 on Nov 17, 2015

2DCAT
Jun 25, 2015

pissssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss ssssssss sssssssssssssssssss sssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss ssssss ssssssssssssssssssssssssssss sssssssssssssss

Gravy Boat 2k

1500 posted:

Because half his post is nothing more then BS on his part and ad hominem. It is clear, from his ranting for multiple pages now, that he is still pissed at FD for the refund thing. But he attacks others, projecting his own anger.

The funny part is that he is so pissed he can't even see what I am talking about.

No one took FD to court, so saying that FD backed down because of EU law is just made up BS. The far more likely scenario is that FD is new to self publicizing their games, they had to create a policy for selling games. So they picked one that is similar to a lot of other companies, also one that would protect them from people that would want to play for hours while in Alpha and Beta (paying more for that) and then asking for a refund so that they could purchase at a cheaper price. But it was a crap policy, and so FD changed it.

Despite AP's rantings and BS, I really don't care if FD give out refunds or not, that is their business and their money. Not that AP will, after all it would contradict this fantasy he has created, my posts on the FD forums were I have said that people that purchased the game for the offline option do deserve a refund, but determining how really purchased just for the offline and who are trying to get a better deal is not an easy thing.

don't be angry, things will surely get better for you in the future.

Truga
May 4, 2014
Lipstick Apathy

G0RF
Mar 19, 2015

Some galactic defender you are, Space Cadet.

1500 posted:

Because half his post is nothing more then BS on his part and ad hominem. It is clear, from his ranting for multiple pages now, that he is still pissed at FD for the refund thing. But he attacks others, projecting his own anger.

The funny part is that he is so pissed he can't even see what I am talking about.

Alan Smithee
Jan 4, 2005


A man becomes preeminent, he's expected to have enthusiasms.

Enthusiasms, enthusiasms...

SelenicMartian posted:

Next Derek reveals that Sandi wears the 'stache when she thinks no one is looking.

"My Leader....Lesnick's.....Lesnick's counterattack failed...."

SirPhoebos
Dec 10, 2007

WELL THAT JUST HAPPENED!

Great, this thread has found a new way to go to poo poo :sigh:

..so what's everyone's favorite Anime?

LITERALLY MY FETISH
Nov 11, 2010


Raise Chris Coons' taxes so that we can have Medicare for All.


tbf everyone involved in that ED tangent deserves ridicule because who gives a poo poo

Michaellaneous
Oct 30, 2013

SirPhoebos posted:

Great, this thread has found a new way to go to poo poo :sigh:

..so what's everyone's favorite Anime?

One Punch Man

LITERALLY MY FETISH
Nov 11, 2010


Raise Chris Coons' taxes so that we can have Medicare for All.

SirPhoebos posted:

Great, this thread has found a new way to go to poo poo :sigh:

..so what's everyone's favorite Anime?

are we spamming anime again? I've got an hour before class to kill, I'm down.

peter gabriel
Nov 8, 2011

Hello Commandos

Truga
May 4, 2014
Lipstick Apathy


Post food gifs

Othin
Nov 20, 2002

Hair Elf

SirPhoebos posted:

Great, this thread has found a new way to go to poo poo :sigh:

..so what's everyone's favorite Anime?

I like the one with the cute girls and the protagonist that dies at the end. There might be swords and or guns.

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AP
Jul 12, 2004

One Ring to fool them all
One Ring to find them
One Ring to milk them all
and pockets fully line them
Grimey Drawer

1500 posted:

Because half his post is nothing more then BS on his part and ad hominem. It is clear, from his ranting for multiple pages now, that he is still pissed at FD for the refund thing. But he attacks others, projecting his own anger.

The funny part is that he is so pissed he can't even see what I am talking about.

No one took FD to court, so saying that FD backed down because of EU law is just made up BS. The far more likely scenario is that FD is new to self publicizing their games, they had to create a policy for selling games. So they picked one that is similar to a lot of other companies, also one that would protect them from people that would want to play for hours while in Alpha and Beta (paying more for that) and then asking for a refund so that they could purchase at a cheaper price. But it was a crap policy, and so FD changed it.

Despite AP's rantings and BS, I really don't care if FD give out refunds or not, that is their business and their money. Not that AP will, after all it would contradict this fantasy he has created, on the FD forums I have said that people that purchased the game for the offline option do deserve a refund, but determining who really purchased just for the offline and who are trying to get a better deal is not an easy thing.

It is built into kickstarter that the project will change, and so you are not entitled to a refund.

Heh, I don't really care about elite. I'm interested in consumer rights and how the refund thing relates to Star Citizen, Frontier's actions were odd as it would never stand up in court. Frontier settled every case in the end and the one guy who did file for court had his filing fee refunded by them too. That's why they changed policy on it, they wouldn't win, it would be expensive to fight and the public relations issue would be worse than it was.

The odd thing was they tried no refunds in the 1st place to those who'd played an alpha.

ad hominem against a game company, good job you were here to defend them.

Also your last line is wrong, kickstarters are just contracts between the customer and the company, if the company doesn't fulfill the terms of the contract, which involves anything advertised about the game by any member of the company then the customer can fall back on contract law. However as I said before in the EU since June 2014, you're covered far beyond that for a no reason refund up to deliver +14 days. Kickstarter have their terms but that doesn't affect anything as they just want to stay out of any dispute.

I can back all this up with evidence if you like as I followed the issue quite closely but considering you don't really care about refunds I'm going to put your behaviour down to just being terribly misinformed about your rights.

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