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Agean90 posted:its not that its unexpected, it that this thread was making fun of the paradox forums for the same thing immediately before hand No, people being disappointed by the way a mechanic works is hardly similar to the pplaza reaction to HoI4 oil. Maybe you could read one or two posts as over the top but hardly any went "now stellaris is forever iredeemable". I think it's bad for the thread to be compared to pplaza the moment sentiment for an upcoming game ever drops under cautious optimism.
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Nov 17, 2015 18:37
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Jack the Stripper posted:About to buy a new laptop, an 840m nvidia graphics card combined with a 5th gen i5 processor should have no problem running EU4, right?
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Nov 17, 2015 18:37
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shut the gently caress up goons
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Nov 17, 2015 18:38
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YF-23 posted:No, people being disappointed by the way a mechanic works is hardly similar to the pplaza reaction to HoI4 oil. It's exactly the same just wordier.
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Nov 17, 2015 18:39
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Ofaloaf posted:I've got a wheezing desktop computer with a radeon 6800 and a 7-year-old intel core 2 duo, and it does a solid job of running EU4. Pretty much any laptop with an iota of graphical processing power will be able to handle the game. Thanks, sounds good.
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Nov 17, 2015 18:42
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The Sharmat posted:It's exactly the same just wordier. No, it's not. Pplaza is complaining about Paradox trying something new to make HoI4 more fun, goons here are complaining that Paradox is not trying something new and does a thing they know to not be fun.
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Nov 17, 2015 18:49
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Except apparently it becomes "Sector Scale Management" later which potentially is new and we don't know enough about it. It's not even that ridiculous, there certainly doesn't seem to be "too many" tiles at all, and I reserve judgement until I've actually seen it in play, considering pacing is everything. Also, really, people think about EU3 and EU4 building micromanagement when all I remember is just clicking a few buttons in the ledger now and again.. people knew about that, right?
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Nov 17, 2015 18:53
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I dont think Ive ever played a space 4X game ever since MOO 1, but all this talk here is making me want to try. Can someone recommend me some good games, past and present, of the genre?
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Nov 17, 2015 18:58
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Elias_Maluco posted:I dont think Ive ever played a space 4X game ever since MOO 1, but all this talk here is making me want to try. Aurora. Really though, ones that I always come back to are: GalCiv 2, Distant Worlds, occasionally Endless Space.
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Nov 17, 2015 19:00
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Sword of the Stars 1 for more of a warfare focus. Definitely not Sword of the Stars 2 though.
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Nov 17, 2015 19:01
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Elias_Maluco posted:I dont think Ive ever played a space 4X game ever since MOO 1, but all this talk here is making me want to try. I'm gonna get a lot of poo poo for this but if you want to dip your toes into space 4x having only played the first Master of Orion then Stardrive 2 isn't a bad bet. It's basically Master of Orion 2 in a newer interface and it's quite forgiving to a new player. That said the developer is an idiot who had a full meltdown on these very forums when he abandoned the first game before finishing it.
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Nov 17, 2015 19:02
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Wiz posted:Have you guys considered that switching from 'this will be the best ever' to 'this will be the worst ever' because of one DD about tile grid planets is just a little bit on the histrionic side? Still in the "this will be the best ever" camp.
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Nov 17, 2015 19:03
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Also Sins of a Solar Empire and Homeworld. They might not be exactly what you're looking for, but I encourage you to at least check out a video let's play of them.
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Nov 17, 2015 19:05
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SotS I's ship building is pretty much space 4x shipbuilding excellence and should be shamelessly ripped off by everyone.
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Nov 17, 2015 19:07
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Demiurge4 posted:This is further exasperated in games like Galciv where civilization wonders exist that give a flat 50% bonus to one production type on that planet. I would much rather colonize a planet and develop it in a variety of ways, not because it's realistic, but because it's enjoyable. If a planet has a tile bonus that gives extra research then great, I can plop a lab down on it but I'd rather make use of the generic tiles around it for the role I had intended. I outlined on an earlier page how adjacency bonuses can be tolerable (to me) by giving adjacency tiles "slots" so that a mine can only boost one adjacent tile and a factory can at most eat two bonuses from a mine. This discourages chaining one bonus across the entire planet and lets the player diversify. Yeah I get where you're coming from, though I guess specialized cities or planets have never bothered me too much personally. Looking at it from the other direction, I could see the base tile being the most important number for things like Research and Minerals, and adjacency bonuses give very diminishing returns for tiles that don't provide any themselves. So for example in the first screenshot, even though the planet is giving a +25% Society Research bonus, it's only going to apply to that 1 single tile, so you might build a research facility there, and you have the option to get adjacency next to it, but since nothing adjacent has Society Research you're getting significantly less bonuses, not very optimal. So it looks less about 'figure out how to stack bonuses into infinity' and more about 'figure out the optimal layout so that you can maximize the usefulness of everything the planet has'. And you can tweak your layout based on what things you need the most of, so maybe you would cram in an adjacency bonus building for research if you really needed it, but if you didn't you can instead build a power plant there if you want more energy instead. Some planets you find might be very fixed in what they are good for (nothing but Mineral tiles on this type of planet, for example), but planets like the one in the screenshot look pretty flexible. As far as stacking food bonuses goes, it looks like Food is a non-export so you only need to provide as much for your planet as it needs itself. So kind of a balancing act to get enough food to grow, without getting happiness penalties, but still extracting as many resources from the planet as possible. Well, that could be completely off base from reality, but that's kind of how I was reading it as. More like a puzzle to solve, and be optimized based on your needs than it is 'stack bonuses stack bonuses stack bonuses'.
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Nov 17, 2015 19:15
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Thanks for the recommendations all. Stardrive 2 seems cool and works on linux (forgot to mention that this is a requirement for me at the moment), but the Steam reviews are terrible. Is these ones any good? The Last Federation http://store.steampowered.com/app/273070/?snr=1_5_9__300 AI War: Fleet Command http://store.steampowered.com/app/40400/ Elias_Maluco fucked around with this message at 19:21 on Nov 17, 2015 |
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Nov 17, 2015 19:17
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orangelex44 posted:Also Sins of a Solar Empire and Homeworld. They might not be exactly what you're looking for, but I encourage you to at least check out a video let's play of them. Those are RTSs.
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Nov 17, 2015 19:20
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Elias_Maluco posted:AI War: Fleet Command This is an RTS with Tower Defense sensibilities and a handful of 4x-like things. It's a pretty cool game though, great for comp-stomp (it's built entirely around that). Kind of an absurdly obtuse number of keyboard commands you need to learn though, and it's got a lot of counter-intuitive mechanics. Definitely worth a look if it sounds fun to you, especially if you've got some friends to play with.
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Nov 17, 2015 19:24
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Elias_Maluco posted:Is this one any good? It really depends on what kind of player you are. The developers are huge fans of statistics, to the point where I think they rely on statistics to carry the narrative of the game, as it were - there's a lot of emergent narratives that come out of the gameplay, but you can only tell that it's there if you learn how to parse the absolute shitload of numbers they throw at you from every angle. Without that knowledge (or the patience to gain that knowledge) the game's a giant, overwhelming infodump that doesn't feel much like anything at all. I wasn't a fan myself, but if you're into that it could scratch your itch. Edit: Thinking out loud here, but it occurs to me that there's not really a lot of space 4Xs that focus on making you feel like you're guiding an actual empire of people instead of pushing blocks and numbers around in space, mostly for the sake of warfare. The focus is usually on the cool starships and the fancy lasers, with everything else there largely to research, design, and build said spaceships before sending them off to explode prettily. One reason why Stellaris has me quietly hopeful - the addition of Pops and virtues could go a ways towards making empire feel less like intergalactic starship factories. Tomn fucked around with this message at 19:32 on Nov 17, 2015 |
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Nov 17, 2015 19:27
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Elias_Maluco posted:Thanks for the recommendations all. Yeah, they're good although AI War is more of a long-running RTS with a large variety of modifiers to the gameplay and difficulty levels and has a fairly steep learning curve for someone new to the genre. The Last Federation proceeds in time steps depending on the choices you make with each of the eight worlds and the fights proceed in an RTS manner though with you controlling a single vessel more often than not.
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Nov 17, 2015 19:28
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Tomn posted:It really depends on what kind of player you are. The developers are huge fans of statistics, to the point where I think they rely on statistics to carry the narrative of the game, as it were - there's a lot of emergent narratives that come out of the gameplay, but you can only tell that it's there if you learn how to parse the absolute shitload of numbers they throw at you from every angle. Without that knowledge (or the patience to gain that knowledge) the game's a giant, overwhelming infodump that doesn't feel much like anything at all. I wasn't a fan myself, but if you're into that it could scratch your itch. Well I do like CK2 and EU4 and most of this applies to then too. I think ill get this one then. Gwyrgyn Blood posted:This is an RTS with Tower Defense sensibilities and a handful of 4x-like things. It's a pretty cool game though, great for comp-stomp (it's built entirely around that). Kind of an absurdly obtuse number of keyboard commands you need to learn though, and it's got a lot of counter-intuitive mechanics. Definitely worth a look if it sounds fun to you, especially if you've got some friends to play with. Not my kind of thing then, thanks.
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Nov 17, 2015 19:30
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Elias_Maluco posted:Well I do like CK2 and EU4 and most of this applies to then too. I think ill get this one then. Keep in mind that I say that the game has a shitload of numbers as a fan of Victoria 2. And not only is there a lot to dig through, but the devs don't exactly have Paradox's modern accessibility sensibilities...
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Nov 17, 2015 19:34
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Gwyrgyn Blood posted:Looking at it from the other direction, I could see the base tile being the most important number for things like Research and Minerals, and adjacency bonuses give very diminishing returns for tiles that don't provide any themselves. So for example in the first screenshot, even though the planet is giving a +25% Society Research bonus, it's only going to apply to that 1 single tile, so you might build a research facility there, and you have the option to get adjacency next to it, but since nothing adjacent has Society Research you're getting significantly less bonuses, not very optimal. So it looks less about 'figure out how to stack bonuses into infinity' and more about 'figure out the optimal layout so that you can maximize the usefulness of everything the planet has'. And you can tweak your layout based on what things you need the most of, so maybe you would cram in an adjacency bonus building for research if you really needed it, but if you didn't you can instead build a power plant there if you want more energy instead. Some planets you find might be very fixed in what they are good for (nothing but Mineral tiles on this type of planet, for example), but planets like the one in the screenshot look pretty flexible. Yeah I get you. I don't mind specialization but absolute percentage bonuses to an entire planets tiles builds into overspecialization because if every tile gets 20% (with a lab) and every lab gives adjacent ones even more tech, there's very little reason to build anything else. It also skews balance because one civ might find a ridiculous science planet and while the AI might develop it in a balanced way the player can overspecialize it and leap light years ahead in tech in just 20 turns. I do want production planets that have super productive factories but I want to decide whether building another factory in this tile is better than another city or lab because it'll give a significant boost to the planet. Some things that Galciv has done very well were asteroid belts that acted basically like fluid resource tiles that you could assign to any planet in your empire, albeit with reductions based on distance. Another was shipyards that could pull production from multiple planets, though again, with distance modifiers in place. I think they overdid stations though and they weren't a fun mechanic in Galciv 2 or 3.
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Nov 17, 2015 19:47
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It would be cool in EU4 if you could just click a button and have the most profitable temple/workshop built for you automatically
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Nov 17, 2015 19:53
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The Sharmat posted:Those are RTSs. Sure, but arguably so are Paradox games. They're certainly not "traditional" 4x, but they're strategy, and Sins at least is a very slow-paced RTS. They're both excellent space strategy games, and I acknowledged they might not be exactly what he was looking for.
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Nov 17, 2015 19:57
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Stellaris will be an RTS too. Paradox just makes RTSes that are at such a scope that they kind of straddle the line between TBS and RTS in terms of gameplay. Most of the representations are TBS representations, but they play out in real-time.
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Nov 17, 2015 20:06
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The bereavement I experienced due to the announcement of tiles in Paradox' space game was the first time I felt human.
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Nov 17, 2015 20:11
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Orange Devil posted:The bereavement I experienced due to the announcement of tiles in Paradox' space game was the first time I felt human. Which is bad, because you're a space-faring cybernetic-fungal collective.
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Nov 17, 2015 20:14
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Dibujante posted:Stellaris will be an RTS too. Paradox just makes RTSes that are at such a scope that they kind of straddle the line between TBS and RTS in terms of gameplay. Most of the representations are TBS representations, but they play out in real-time. We might be arguing over nothing, but Stellaris will have turns just like Europa and Crusader Kings have turns. Just 'cause there are lots of turns doesn't make it a real-time game.
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Nov 17, 2015 20:15
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Elias_Maluco posted:Stardrive 2 seems cool and works on linux (forgot to mention that this is a requirement for me at the moment), but the Steam reviews are terrible. I had fun with Stardrive 2 - people are extremely salty over the fact that Stardrive 1 was never "finished" (Part developer fault, part random factors, part game engine being discontinued during development) - though its still a reasonably decent game let down by engine limitations. Mileage varies on the bias of other reviews as well. The Developer has a tendency to tell you about stuff he ends up being unable to do, which is basically "muh promises" and anathema to the gaming community these days. His own fault though.
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Nov 17, 2015 20:29
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Gort posted:We might be arguing over nothing, but Stellaris will have turns just like Europa and Crusader Kings have turns. Just 'cause there are lots of turns doesn't make it a real-time game. They are tick based strategy games. Paradox literally makes pretty browser games!
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Nov 17, 2015 20:36
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Tomn posted:
Or take it in the other direction, Rule the Waves in Space 
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Nov 17, 2015 20:38
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Gort posted:We might be arguing over nothing, but Stellaris will have turns just like Europa and Crusader Kings have turns. Just 'cause there are lots of turns doesn't make it a real-time game. Xeno's strategy game if you will.
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Nov 17, 2015 20:45
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You can't pause a RTS to plan and give orders like a Paradox grand strategy or a TBS
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Nov 17, 2015 20:49
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The Sharmat posted:It's exactly the same just wordier. Nah, one is a reasonable concern about how to balance playability and verisimilitude (not I do not say "realism"). The other is a bunch of goons.
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Nov 17, 2015 20:51
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Enjoy posted:You can't pause a RTS to plan and give orders like a Paradox grand strategy or a TBS You can in at least one that I know of, probably in others as well.
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Nov 17, 2015 20:57
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At this point I'm willing to concede that we are actually arguing about nothing.
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Nov 17, 2015 20:59
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When people say RTS they're thinking of a pretty specific genre, things like Warcraft and Total Annihilation and probably Homeworld. It's like the term "RPG", it means a fairly specific thing to most people. You can play the role of a leader in Paradox games and there are characters with stats, so clearly it's an RPG.
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Nov 17, 2015 21:00
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Actually you spend a lot of your time managing your relationship numbers with other characters or nations and improving your stats, so clearly it's a dating sim.
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Nov 17, 2015 21:04
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Sindai posted:Actually you spend a lot of your time managing your relationship numbers with other characters or nations and improving your stats, so clearly it's a dating sim. CK2 certainly, there's even a path for your sis 
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