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EightAce posted:warriorscot hahaha they cant even deliver their physical goods in a timely fashion
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Nov 20, 2015 16:27
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Loiosh posted:My thought on that last night was who reads magazines still? I think it's only a thing in some places in the EU. Wasn't aware the US didn't have magazines, interesting.
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Nov 20, 2015 16:28
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It's idiots like that that me question whether CIG really have financial troubles. In spite of wasting millions of dollars, they've tapped into a western otaku market. Japanese pornographers have discovered that there's a certain subset of die hard fan that will, regardless of price point or how much nearly-equivalent merchandise you crank out, will absolutely steadfastly buy every little bit of minutiae because they physically cannot help themselves. Christ Roberts has found the same thing, but for e: gently caress me. He is literally selling jpegs. Now I get it.
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Nov 20, 2015 16:28
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 Best "never a secret" husband ever.
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Nov 20, 2015 16:28
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AP posted:
surprised she didnt blank out his name on the card
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Nov 20, 2015 16:29
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AP posted:
There from that Vincent Character that they unveiled last night.Chris just likes to watch
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Nov 20, 2015 16:30
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AP posted:
She really shouldn't sign her tweets
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Nov 20, 2015 16:31
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MeLKoR posted:Not calling you out Loiosh, I'm reposting cause you probably missed it yesterday and I'm genuinely curious. He wasn't building this initially. Their initial plan was to make Freelancer MMO, basically. A small team of about 20-50, working for 2 years. It's after they hit the crazy funding on the website they decided to expand the scope. Now, as to why he cannot even guess at a delivery date, that I have no idea about. Of course, this thread was started by the king of Delivery Date failure, so it's not like it's a unique problem. Heck, see all the delays for games this year (Deus Ex just announced they're delayed again). Missing deliveries is kinda a shrug from me. Honestly, some things I'd like to see get another year, like Batman: Arkham Knight. I got that with my video card. :/
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Nov 20, 2015 16:31
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G0RF posted:Meanwhile, on the Merchandise front, a fan tries to gently shame Sandi into using his better solution for Star Citizen swag. It really does look much better. Hell, it would probably be cheaper too, to an extent. It's a pity for that guy that this entire thing will probably implode sooner or later.
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Nov 20, 2015 16:31
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G0RF posted:Meanwhile, on the Merchandise front, a fan tries to gently shame Sandi into using his better solution for Star Citizen swag. If they pulled the merchandise from the RSI site the funding ticker wouldn't go up as much, I think that's the main flaw with his plan.
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Nov 20, 2015 16:33
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AP posted:Wasn't aware the US didn't have magazines, interesting. Besides Game Informer, which Gamestop/EB Games uses as an advertising flier for their stores, game magazines are functionally dead in the US. If you want to make yourself sad, look what happened to National Geographic. They had to sell off to Rupert Murdock because their subscriber numbers were so low they were no longer sustainable. Time, Forbes, Nat Geo, US News, they're all slowly dying 
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Nov 20, 2015 16:33
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Loiosh posted:3 years of full term development for a game like this? It's pretty normal. I mean, I've posted developer times in the past, though Beer has a better list. For an ambitious game I expected around a 5 year cycle before the release, and around $100 million. I expect games to be delivered when the person asking for my money tells me to expect them. I would definitely expect them by the time the TOS says that, if I don't get what I paid for, I will get a complete accounting of how money has been spent and a refund. As for semantics and definitions I typically rely on the words of the person who tells me how long they've been working on something. Especially when they use how long they've been working on something as a reason for me to give them money. Star Citizen has been in production for four years and is already a year past the release date. Saying or believing anything else is self-delusion.
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Nov 20, 2015 16:34
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EightAce posted:There from that Vincent Character that they unveiled last night.Chris just likes to watch That's going to be in the expansion. Star Citizen 3.0 - Chris gets Cucked
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Nov 20, 2015 16:34
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Loiosh posted:
The initial plan is what I was interested in playing (except as Freelancer 2.0). That actually seemed manageable. The scope creep is what screwed things up - they couldn't have just said "yeah we'll make this poo poo, but we'll stick it into expansions down the road so we don't gently caress this up"? I mean, it's not as if we actually need most of this bullshit on release - just the ability to shoot spaceships, and haul crap around the galaxy would be enough to start. But instead we now have a laundry list of extra stuff that comes across as little more than bloat, and an international circus of errors (it was a comedy, now it's just sad, kind of like clowns).
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Nov 20, 2015 16:39
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DreadLlama posted:It's idiots like that that me question whether CIG really have financial troubles. It turns out if you really wanna rake in the money hand over fist, you either gotta make a company that sells pretty pictures of space ships or make a lovely videogame about giant robots.
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Nov 20, 2015 16:39
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Loiosh posted:Besides Game Informer, which Gamestop/EB Games uses as an advertising flier for their stores, game magazines are functionally dead in the US. If you want to make yourself sad, look what happened to National Geographic. They had to sell off to Rupert Murdock because their subscriber numbers were so low they were no longer sustainable. Maybe that's why I put "I don't know what their circulation figures are" in my post.
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Nov 20, 2015 16:39
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Loiosh posted:He wasn't building this initially. Their initial plan was to make Freelancer MMO, basically. A small team of about 20-50, working for 2 years. It's after they hit the crazy funding on the website they decided to expand the scope. Now, as to why he cannot even guess at a delivery date, that I have no idea about. Of course, this thread was started by the king of Delivery Date failure, so it's not like it's a unique problem. Heck, see all the delays for games this year (Deus Ex just announced they're delayed again). Missing deliveries is kinda a shrug from me. I'm not talking about the original release date, I'm talking about the various "oh such and such module/feature is going to be out in 2 weeks" that don't materialize and that months after still haven't materialized. MeLKoR fucked around with this message at 16:45 on Nov 20, 2015 |
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Nov 20, 2015 16:40
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pQ-omOHLTYquote:I will be doing a daily video of the progress CIG is making on the Baby PU patch. So far it is buggy and filled wth glitches, but it is beautiful.
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Nov 20, 2015 16:43
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Loiosh posted:I don't think they'll hit a million until (if) 2.0 is stabilized. There's just not a lot of trust left to CIG, for reasons shared here, so they're not going to pull in new backers like they used to with JPEGs. They have to prove it, and they have to prove it within the next month. If they cannot stabilize 2.0, then Derek's 6 month prediction looks quite accurate, depending on their COH. I'm fairly convinced that this is a Ponzi now. The ship sales being run to cover the operating and presumably refund costs. The game is a plausible cover and can keep them going until they shut up shop. Sure, this could be hyperbole, but sometimes you have to produce a huge 'what if' and think big. These 'alpha' releases are having the opposite effect of making people feel better about development, so they're not about proudly presenting something. They're about cycling the hype train until the next round of jpeg sales. Consider that the product here has no value. The current audience has already paid into it, and has purchased the product. This money has provided the burn rate for the company for four years, with the offhand 'prediction' that it's going to out next year; they already have their captured audience and they have to squeeze them to provide for any shortfall. They're headed for a liquidity crisis, IMO. I say this because they're discounting goods that don't exist, or in some cases simply haven't been produced.
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Nov 20, 2015 16:43
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:I expect games to be delivered when the person asking for my money tells me to expect them. I would definitely expect them by the time the TOS says that, if I don't get what I paid for, I will get a complete accounting of how money has been spent and a refund. As for semantics and definitions I typically rely on the words of the person who tells me how long they've been working on something. Especially when they use how long they've been working on something as a reason for me to give them money. You know I'm not defending against this, right? All along I've maintained that if people have any qualms they should get their refunds. I kinda think there's this thing where everyone wants to convince someone like me that I'm a bad person for liking what I've seen and wanting the game I want to see made. I'm not going to defend their change in scope, I just explained what happened. Yes, there's feature creep. That's what brought me into it because they're making the game I want to see. Other people do not. There's totally nothing wrong with that.
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Nov 20, 2015 16:43
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2DCAT posted:This is a good question; someone fetch legal. *throws a stick* Legal, fetch!
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Nov 20, 2015 16:44
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Aesaar posted:Hang on. Is multi-crew included in 2.0? I've heard conflicting reports. I saw someone get in a turret and operate it. The ships seem to have problems with more than one person on them at a time. I saw a guy phase out of his ship when someone else flew away with it. Then it hung there over the pad, he jet packed up into the bay, and when he tried to enter a crew door the center of the screen pinched like it was doing the warp drive, then the ship ejected itself from around him and appeared over the opposite side of the pad. Someone had a description of this release last night that completely nailed it. It's an object viewer. You can "fly" around, there's hints of neat things hidden about, the individual assets look good, but it's almost all "look but don't touch". You could have nearly the same experience zooming around in a model viewer.
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Nov 20, 2015 16:44
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Wait, what happened to Sandi? I want to know the deets.
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Nov 20, 2015 16:45
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Loiosh posted:Rogue System isn't my thing. I've spoken about it a few times here and in more detail (far, far too much detail) on reddit. Basically, there's no need for manual button pushing like that. (Derek) Smart computers are far better at handling these things, So you want a detailed sim arcade game.
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Nov 20, 2015 16:45
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peter gabriel posted:She really shouldn't sign her tweets What did you expect from a certifiable narcissist?
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Nov 20, 2015 16:47
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Nirvikalpa posted:Wait, what happened to Sandi? I want to know the deets. She's married Chris Roberts.
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Nov 20, 2015 16:48
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 From the video above which is pretty hilarious.
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Nov 20, 2015 16:49
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Loiosh posted:I did not fund the original kickstarter for SC because it was too limited in scope. I wanted to play a space sim with the depth of FSX. SC is not there yet (and according to most here, will never get there), E:D is not that game. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouC6-T6wilI Edit: Guess I should read the rest of the thread before posting. WTF - Loiosh wants FSX depth without button pushing, but thinks that the system simulation in E:D with all its automation is not that thing. This is a case of carefully placing the goalposts to try and fit Star Citizen in without letting other games through. illectro fucked around with this message at 16:52 on Nov 20, 2015 |
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Nov 20, 2015 16:49
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ROCKET SCIENCE
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OWLS! posted:So you want a detailed sim arcade game. Maybe the wonderful 1999 game Lander, by Psygnosis? You know, which was a combination of Lunar Lander and Descent?
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Nov 20, 2015 16:52
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MeLKoR posted:I'm not talking about the original release date, I'm talking about the various "oh such and such module/feature is going to be out in 2 weeks" that don't materialize and that months after still haven't materialized. Sorry I got confused there. My answer is going to be one that a lot of people will disagree with, I gather. My thoughts I've written out before, but not directly addressed this specific question. My personal point of view, from working within software, but not on gaming, is that it's quite difficult to get estimates right. I've worked for the telecom industry for about five years. After that I worked for a backup company, and we had a lot of difficulty hitting release dates. In fact, right now the product I'm involved with is about two quarters late. The next major release is already a year late. And no, it's not my fault  . When I did telecom, we were a year behind on delivering LTE. We didn't even have a test tool to begin development on VoLTE features because everyone was behind. Nethawk, Brix, Tektronix, Alcatel-Lucent, Avaya, everyone was late and missing dates. The reason is related directly to complexity. None of us really had a grasp on how difficult implementing LTE would be. Hell, the 3g stuff before this was a bitch, but at least that was built on top of 2g protocol, so we had some layers and code we could reuse. When we jumped on LTE, we had to pretty much start over.So when I see another software project missing estimates, I'm not shocked. I'm, at this point, still curious to see what will come out of it.
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Nov 20, 2015 16:53
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What the hell kind of rabbit hole are you trying to send people down man?
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Nov 20, 2015 16:54
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illectro posted:Star Citizen certainly isn't that game, but Rogue System is, please give money to these guys. Yeah, FSX isn't really the sim he's looking for. Most people moved to Prepare3D or Xplane. FSX manages to survive because of the third party stuff, but most of that is slowly moving over. Rogue System hits Falcon 4.0 levels of detail, and while I agree that it's spergy as all hell, there's room for more than one game. The difference being that one actually exists.
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Nov 20, 2015 16:56
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blueberrysmith posted:What the hell kind of rabbit hole are you trying to send people down man? Star Citizen 
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Nov 20, 2015 16:56
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Denied
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Nov 20, 2015 16:56
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Nirvikalpa posted:Wait, what happened to Sandi? I want to know the deets. 
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Nov 20, 2015 16:57
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I like that being fired out of your ship sideways and not being able to get out of a terminal or cockpit is a minor issue. I mean as soon as you implement accessing a terminal surely the very next step is implementing stopping using the terminal.
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Nov 20, 2015 16:58
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illectro posted:Star Citizen certainly isn't that game, but Rogue System is, please give money to these guys. So this is a little misunderstanding. I don't believe button pushing is compelling gameplay for me. I did like it when I was accurately simulating Apollo craft and Boeing Airplanes because that's what existed, but for the future, I would like more of that to be controlled by a computer. There's really no benefit to having humans do manual start ups that take 10 minutes to get going. I like the potential depth of a complex system simulation, without requiring manual start ups. I like troubleshooting problems, but like computer-assisted checklists and repair. Most modern aircraft, like the 777 and A380, are intelligent enough to at least offer the checklist to the pilots in case of failures or issues. Spending 10 minutes doing a cold-start is not that interesting to me. I'm not saying Rogue System is wrong or bad. It's cool! it's just not what I'm looking for. I'm more into something like Enemy Starfighter.
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Nov 20, 2015 16:59
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How can you look at that cockpit and think it's gorgeous? And everything is constantly shaking.
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Nov 20, 2015 16:59
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Loiosh posted:You know I'm not defending against this, right? All along I've maintained that if people have any qualms they should get their refunds. I kinda think there's this thing where everyone wants to convince someone like me that I'm a bad person for liking what I've seen and wanting the game I want to see made. Personally I don't think who you are as a person is reflected in how you think things are progressing; as I said earlier you seem pretty chill and I suspect hanging out with you would be fun. Beer's on me. Especially since you don't drink. It's cool that you see something in this that you want to play. My problem is that there is no guarantee that the game you want to see is the game they're actually going to deliver. If CIG is so willing to expand the scope there's nothing preventing them from contracting once times and finances get tough. Credibility is crucial when it comes to a crowd-funded effort and CIG has repeatedly demonstrated an utter lack of it with respect to everything from their marketing strategy to project management. You see the game you want because CIG has made a product that's amorphous enough to be everything to everyone. CIG's marketing strategy is so effective because they're selling a dream while producing a game. Yesterday's livestream is a perfect example of that. The dream of Star Citizen, the ship sales promising a whole new realm of gameplay and Mark Hamill chatting about bringing the band bank together and all the technology, was front and center. The actual game was an afterthought, discussed after the livestream had already went past its time. It's cool that you can step in at this time and see a game that appeals to you. The problem is that there is no evidence of such a game actually existing, nor is there any way for someone to tell what that game actually is. For all the technical marvel that is Arena Commander 2.0 (and it really is a step above where the were before, and the team should be proud of their accomplishments), I'm not seeing anything that wasn't promised as part of the original scope.
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Nov 20, 2015 16:59
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People saying they aren't making the money this time are looking at the wrong place, I think. By the spreadsheet's count they made over $500k in the first day of the sale.
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Nov 20, 2015 17:01
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