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MeLKoR posted:It's not just that. I feel like we've been played for fools by everyone. D_Smart has obviously been pulling everything out of his rear end but what really hurt was that CIG released buggy poo poo on purpose so we would laugh and go all obviously. Please explain what exactly it is I had pulled out of my rear end, when in fact, every loving thing I've said since July, has actually happened as predicted and stated. Denial is not a river in Egypt.
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Nov 21, 2015 15:22
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and then they were like "oh sorry, we forgot this little patch" and 
awesome game.
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People saying it's jittery are totally right but it's not a terribly damning criticism given the clearly unfinished state of the game. Star citizen is an elaborate lobby system where players load into instanced dogfighting levels in their space ships, some of which have fps levels within them. Slap on some progression and some NPCs that sell things and give out missions and that is the entire game. Most of the concepts are shown in this latest release in their basic form, you add another year or two of fixing bugs and adding assets and you will have a game. It might not be a good game but I feel like we're passed the point of thinking they'll never release anything now.
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Nov 21, 2015 15:22
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no_recall posted:Any examples you can share regarding the 32 * 2 bit versus pure 64? Tia I don't understand the question. I wrote this, in case you missed it: http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1snt99v http://pastebin.com/VKd7qHfp
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Nov 21, 2015 15:23
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So they almost developed one part of Planetside for 95 million dollars.
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Nov 21, 2015 15:24
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http://www.twitch.tv/badnewsbaron Been online for 2 hours now. Less than 10 mins of actual game play.
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Nov 21, 2015 15:28
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D_Smart posted:I don't understand the question. I wrote this, in case you missed it: Yeah I read those. What I meant is technically, what's 32 * 2 bit precision and how is that different to pure 64 bit precision. I do web development, not game engine programming. Would utilizing SIMD - 128 help? quote:As I tweeted this morning, this is done by going the (32-bit * 2) route, whereby you use a 32-Bit positional reference for that fixed object, then treat the player position as a 32-Bit value by using that fixed object as a reference. When you refer to 32-bit reference, in 2.0, would that be the station / celestial body or... ? Consider me dumb and curious. F/E: More curious than dumb.
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Nov 21, 2015 15:31
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no_recall posted:Yeah I read those. What I meant is technically, what's 32 * 2 bit precision and how is that different to pure 64 bit precision. I do web development, not game engine programming. Would utilizing SIMD - 128 help? Dumbed down as I understand it: Imagine a 2D grid in (x,y) coordinates. In true 64-bit land, you'd have 64-bits of precision in both directions. But this means changing a bunch of stuff internally to make that possible. 2*32-bit is instead saying something to the effect that the grid is 32-bits of precision in both directions, and if we choose a point then this is our 'fixed point' on that grid, but then treat that *fixed point* as a new origin for *another* 32-bit grid.
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Nov 21, 2015 15:37
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Decrepus posted:So they almost developed one part of Planetside for 95 million dollars. Never in a million years is the fps going to be a good as planetside. If I was to predict a big criticism of sc at released, it would be that it's a jack of all trades. Why not play a game that does the bit you enjoy better?
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Nov 21, 2015 15:38
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fuzzknot posted:He's already taking a break himself. He's enjoying a bit of peace and quiet and ignoring the gradually-increasingly-creepy Redditors. Aw, man! Then that's 30 mins of my life I'll never get back for singing 'Goon-de-yadda' into my mic for nothing.  It was a great idea at any rate, or at least I thought so, but eh - fine...a break it is I suppose, as well as on my end then. Thanks for telling me at least.
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Nov 21, 2015 15:39
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Shamelessly ripped from an Elite Dangerous forum on 64 bit coords:quote:Why 64bit numbers are important is precision of location. Not an engineering answer, but one the common goon can understand
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Nov 21, 2015 15:44
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Chalks posted:People saying it's jittery are totally right but it's not a terribly damning criticism given the clearly unfinished state of the game. I played the E:D alpha back in the first iteration. It was basic and crashed about 1-2 times in a roughly 3 hour session. I play Naval Action currently, which is in alpha. I have been playing the UT alpha for months. It's still mostly greyboxed. Now of these have any sort of jittery nonsense. It's not just the shaking. Is like when you stop moving your mouse and the view stops turning, then half a second later it makes one more movement. This happens when you move forward slightly. Those things are not because it's early, it's because they broke the engine. I really think one of you 2.0 players need to call my bluff. I think 2.0 is a collection of tossed-together maps pretending to be one single area. Prove me wrong.
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Nov 21, 2015 15:46
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no_recall posted:Yeah I read those. What I meant is technically, what's 32 * 2 bit precision and how is that different to pure 64 bit precision. I do web development, not game engine programming. Would utilizing SIMD - 128 help? Every ship (and player) is made of triangles, and each corner of each triangle is a vector of 32bit numbers. As you get further away from 0,0,0 you have to use more of those bits for recording the big distance from 0,0,0 and less for recording the small distance between the triangles. When that happens, ships start jittering and triangles start touching when they shouldn't. There are plenty of ways around this problem, but none of them work if your lead designer has decided on having a universal coordinate system. 64 bit has the same problem, but you can go further before you see it. efb by the ED faq
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Nov 21, 2015 15:49
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OhDearGodNo posted:I think 2.0 is a collection of tossed-together maps pretending to be one single area. Prove me wrong. Could be, I want to know about the hardware too though. World of Warcraft for example uses custom built server blades for each realm, you can google what they look like as they sold some to the public a few years ago for charity. Would be interesting to see what potatoes SC is running on.
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Nov 21, 2015 15:55
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Dongsturm posted:Every ship (and player) is made of triangles, and each corner of each triangle is a vector of 32bit numbers. As you get further away from 0,0,0 you have to use more of those bits for recording the big distance from 0,0,0 and less for recording the small distance between the triangles. When that happens, ships start jittering and triangles start touching when they shouldn't. So what I understand is they created an MMO map that's however million km large with its reference point at the main star? And its filled with nothing???? What I read earlier the game is huge because the maps are filled with "nothing". If this is true... Lol.
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Nov 21, 2015 15:58
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OhDearGodNo posted:I played the E:D alpha back in the first iteration. It was basic and crashed about 1-2 times in a roughly 3 hour session. If 6 months from now it's still like that then sure, but I imagine at one point e:d was jittery too. They didn't let people play it in that state but they could have, it wouldn't have meant their game would never be released. It's important to look past poo poo that they're probably gonna fix. There are underlying flaws but if you say jitters mean they're doomed then they patch it out tomorrow then it's gonna seem kinda silly.
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Nov 21, 2015 15:59
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A. Beaverhausen posted:The parts of the star citizen threads when people are complimentary towards anything involved in star citizen are the worst parts. This can't be overstated. You guys are ruining my immersion.
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Nov 21, 2015 16:02
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OhDearGodNo posted:I have been playing the UT alpha for months. It's still mostly greyboxed.  The UT alpha is a good alpha
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Nov 21, 2015 16:04
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Ok here's another question. When CR mentioned "grids", is it a separate map used only by the guys in that multicrew ship? Or is it shared with the "large" world?
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Nov 21, 2015 16:06
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OhDearGodNo posted:The best part of this thread is Octopode going full smug because 2.0 isn't a complete disaster. This is what happened when we had the Doobie/SC/DayZ thread in gbs all of SC games rushed the thread when Arena Commander came out and were all like "Now who looks stupid" A week later, after they all experienced it, they were done with it
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Nov 21, 2015 16:23
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just watch this now: http://www.twitch.tv/badnewsbaron it's loving terrible
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Nov 21, 2015 16:24
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So......"refunded" back in early October. Money has not there. And my RSI account is gone. And nobody is answering my emails.  Chargeback time? How do I start that process?
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Nov 21, 2015 16:25
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no_recall posted:Ok here's another question. When CR mentioned "grids", is it a separate map used only by the guys in that multicrew ship? Or is it shared with the "large" world? I think he was referring to GRIDS, which stands for Galaxy-Related Income-Deficiency Syndrome.
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Nov 21, 2015 16:26
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peter gabriel posted:just watch this now: i think he's going to have a stroke e: "I would treat [Derek Smart] as Jon Stewart would treat any guest." lol
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Nov 21, 2015 16:27
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I think he just had a melt down at me but I have sound off lol
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Nov 21, 2015 16:28
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spacetoaster posted:So......"refunded" back in early October. Money has not there. And my RSI account is gone. You call the bank or credit card company and report that you want to chargeback for a product that has not yet been delivered and should have been delivered a YEAR ago.
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Nov 21, 2015 16:28
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D_Smart posted:obviously. Please explain what exactly it is I had pulled out of my rear end, when in fact, every loving thing I've said since July, has actually happened as predicted and stated. Denial is not a river in Egypt. I think he/she is being ironic Derek.
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Nov 21, 2015 16:28
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Watch that stream though, I watched for 15 minutes and saw loading screens, his desktop and nothing else apart from excuses in the chat, thank you Star Citizen
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Nov 21, 2015 16:29
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I got permabanned from the stream for asking if they thought Roberts was running a cult
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Nov 21, 2015 16:31
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I kept asking why it was so bad then he started talking at the camera and started going red and then banned me but I had sound off so it was just a man going red to me, I loved that
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Nov 21, 2015 16:31
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no_recall posted:Ok here's another question. When CR mentioned "grids", is it a separate map used only by the guys in that multicrew ship? Or is it shared with the "large" world? It's a local zone nested inside an area zone. Each ship has it's own zone and the players are relative to that when inside the ship. When you exit the ship (and you see the gravity vector change) you've moved into the area zone. If you have debug enabled you can actually bring up the display and see the zone information. They were showing some of the zone code in an earlier Bug Smashers while fixing an LOD issue. Mmm, good morning, all. It's way too early.
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Nov 21, 2015 16:36
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Being a regular twitch streamer seems like a special kind of hell.
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Nov 21, 2015 16:36
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spacetoaster posted:So......"refunded" back in early October. Money has not there. And my RSI account is gone. Call your bank and tell them you have emails saying you're getting a refund and they're not acting on it in addition to them not delivering a product etc.
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Nov 21, 2015 16:53
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Dark Off posted:your absolutely right its a buggy mess. im impressed on the fact that its not complete disaster yet (i was expecting lot worse). None of this makes any sense. You would use double precision floats for position data, not 32 bit integers. And instead of your weird tree structure, you would just have the physics engine do calculations relative to the ship's position. I'm not sure how CryEngine implements this, but I'm sure it's built-in functionality. In Unity, you would just make the player a child of the ship's game object (base class for everything in the engine) and do all your movement calculations against the ship's local space. The engine would handle all the nasty conversions under the hood (they're actually not too bad, you just generally don't want to directly modify quaternions. You could write a function to do this yourself, but it's already handled, so why would you?) I could probably get a simple example coded in less time than it would take me to find and import a ship model to test with. The bigger issue is syncing all that data between players. But why bother? Only send player position data to people inside the same ship, where you can actually see them.
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Nov 21, 2015 17:08
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Loiosh posted:It's a local zone nested inside an area zone. Each ship has it's own zone and the players are relative to that when inside the ship. When you exit the ship (and you see the gravity vector change) you've moved into the area zone. If you have debug enabled you can actually bring up the display and see the zone information. They were showing some of the zone code in an earlier Bug Smashers while fixing an LOD issue. If I'm getting that right, it means that if I'm sitting in ship A, your location in ship B won't be updated to me right. right?
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Nov 21, 2015 17:09
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peter gabriel posted:just watch this now:
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Nov 21, 2015 17:12
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peter gabriel posted:just watch this now: lol tried like 6 times to enter a ship to fly it and the character kept clipping back out to the bay.. goes to a different ship.... CTD  relaunches game get's disconnected server full lol
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Nov 21, 2015 17:14
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no_recall posted:If I'm getting that right, it means that if I'm sitting in ship A, your location in ship B won't be updated to me right. right? The server updates all locations. You can watch players walking around inside their ships, though good luck with it right now because it likes to disconnect and crash. Connie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oC17567Zg8Y&t=1m15s I noticed that they've fixed the particle system LOD issue, but you can see the shadow system has a very similar issue with zones. Once you enter a large ship, the shadows will flicker as LOD turns them on and off. I did like seeing the damage state in the Constellation (he exits the ship after it activates the ship damage state: https://youtu.be/oC17567Zg8Y?t=6m53s) - It looks like the ship activates the failure mode no matter the damage level right now. Another detail I liked is how the screens do a brightness adjust based on ambient light. I guess they're using a ray to read the light level and have a brightness adjust on the display screens. That little touch is cool. Also, CIG just updated they'll be releasing another patch either tomorrow or Monday to catch the crashes that have been seen yesterday and today. Loiosh fucked around with this message at 17:25 on Nov 21, 2015 |
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Nov 21, 2015 17:21
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Here's something to put you all in the xmas spirit. I think there may be a few bugs.
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Nov 21, 2015 17:25
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no_recall posted:So what I understand is they created an MMO map that's however million km large with its reference point at the main star? And its filled with nothing???? What I read earlier the game is huge because the maps are filled with "nothing". That is actually the right way to do it. The wrong way to do it is to use two 32bit vectors, and try to fake it, perhaps by having invisible zones. E. G. One vector points to a space station, the second points from the station to your ship. That's the 2*32 people are taking about. It's the nightmare of x86 segmented addresses, bought back to life by an insane games developer. Nobody knows exactly what they have done, but it's looking like they done it wrong.
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Nov 21, 2015 17:26
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peter gabriel posted:just watch this now: lmao there is a bug which makes you spin uncontrollably and the only way to fix it is to kill yourself
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Nov 21, 2015 17:27
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