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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:
Well, yeah, that's exactly what I said. She's killing it in her role and I wish it actually mattered.
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Nov 21, 2015 19:58
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Hogarth the character has a long Marvel history and is actually Danny Rand (Iron Fist) lawyer. It's a gender swapped role. I dunno I got bored of the drama but it absolutely has a point.weekly font posted:Well, yeah, that's exactly what I said. She's killing it in her role and I wish it actually mattered. She's Kilgrave. Like her motivations are all about manipulating people, lying, etc.. It's really interesting and a good point to make about the show is the show is all about consent and manipulation . Her go to strategy is always " They were not in control, there fore they are not repsonsible" ,but she was completely in control when she let Kilgrave out At first it seems that way but by the end of the series it has a definite point. Hollismason fucked around with this message at 20:04 on Nov 21, 2015 |
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Nov 21, 2015 20:02
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Hollismason posted:Hogarth the character has a long Marvel history and is actually Danny Rand (Iron Fist) lawyer. It's a gender swapped role. I dunno I got bored of the drama but it absolutely has a point. The problem is really just that there's too much of the drama and it starts to detract from the rest of the story. This might be the most sex, drugs, and violence in an examination of existentialism yet. Gyges fucked around with this message at 20:10 on Nov 21, 2015 |
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Nov 21, 2015 20:08
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Gyges posted:The problem is really just that there's too much of the drama and it starts to detract from the rest of the story. It serves also as a reflection of Kilgrave from a feminine role. If they didn't have her in the role it wouldn't have fleshed out Kilgrave as much. Remove her roles or skip it and then you have the issue not just be about men but just abuse of all forms. Entire show is about abuse. Drug Abuse Spousal Abuse Sexual Abuse There's no spousal abuse without her arc because Kilgrave doesn't have a spouse.
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Nov 21, 2015 20:14
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weekly font posted:Well, yeah, that's exactly what I said. She's killing it in her role and I wish it actually mattered. My bad, misread what you wrote. Hollismason posted:She's Kilgrave. Like her motivations are all about manipulating people, lying, etc.. It's really interesting and a good point to make about the show is the show is all about consent and manipulation . Her go to strategy is always " They were not in control, there fore they are not repsonsible" ,but she was completely in control when she let Kilgrave out But she hesitated and didn't let him out in the end. Then they just toss in the contrived dead baby mind control poo poo to really make her seem evil because lol Hollismason posted:It serves also as a reflection of Kilgrave from a feminine role. If they didn't have her in the role it wouldn't have fleshed out Kilgrave as much. Remove her roles or skip it and then you have the issue not just be about men but just abuse of all forms. Uh you are gonna need to clarify that point because what
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Nov 21, 2015 20:15
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:My bad, misread what you wrote. She didn't have time to let him out so she cut the wire. She's absolutely not a good person and it's made evident through out the show. Like her motivation is to control people and her relationship with her wife is a mirror of what's going on with Kilgrave. It infuriates her that her wife won't sign the papers. That's her motivation. She doesn't have Kilgrave's backstory etc.. She is just a controlling and manipulative person CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:
The entire show is about abuse ,but it's heternormative, this was a queer perspective on spousal abuse. Also by showing a feminine aspect of abuse you have all aspects of abuse in the show. Without having the queer perspective you don't see abuse and it's effects from all sides, but also it makes it so the show isn't just about male vs female abuse. In fact Robyn is also a domestic abuser. It also shows that you don't need Kilgrave's background to be a manipulative person. It also serves the purpose of showing that Kilgrave was just a flat out manipulative person to begin with just like she was. Hollismason fucked around with this message at 20:24 on Nov 21, 2015 |
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Nov 21, 2015 20:19
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1x12 Uuughh Kilgrave is such a cowardly awful evil pathetic little poo poo. Get him Jessica! God what an episode, time to see how this ends.
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Nov 21, 2015 20:22
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Hollismason posted:She didn't have time to let him out so she cut the wire. She's absolutely not a good person and it's made evident through out the show. Like her motivation is to control people and her relationship with her wife is a mirror of what's going on with Kilgrave. It infuriates her that her wife won't sign the papers. That's her motivation. She doesn't have Kilgrave's backstory etc.. She is just a controlling and manipulative person Eh, she could've let him go. Once he was free it wouldn't matter if anyone was coming back because Kilgrave would just kill them all. She hesitated and didn't let him go. Yea she isn't a good person, but her last 2 scenes where she reveals the baby poo poo and then doesn't correct Pam on her version of the events just seemed like a really clumsy way to paint her as EVIL as opposed to bad person. Hollismason posted:The entire show is about abuse ,but it's heternormative, this was a queer perspective on spousal abuse. Also by showing a feminine aspect of abuse you have all aspects of abuse in the show. I guess. Then there is also Trish's mom as another perpetrator of abuse CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK fucked around with this message at 20:32 on Nov 21, 2015 |
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Nov 21, 2015 20:27
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Here's a list of all abusive relationships in the show Robyn and her Brother - Physical and Verbal abuse between family members. Sibling Abuse Malcolm and Simpson - Drug Abuse Hogarth and her wife - queer view of spousal abuse Kilgrave and Jessica - Heternormative rape and abuse Patsy Walker and Her Mom - Child Abuse , Parent to Child Simpson and Patsy - Spousal Abuse Jessica - Alcohol Abuse I don't think I've missed any. I think almost every type of abuse is covered in this show. Hollismason fucked around with this message at 20:32 on Nov 21, 2015 |
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Nov 21, 2015 20:29
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1x2 Whats up with all the piss? I'm two episodes in and theres already been three allusions to people pissing themselves and multiple kidney conditions.
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Nov 21, 2015 20:33
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Hollismason posted:Here's a list of all abusive relationships in the show Hollismason posted:She didn't have time to let him out so she cut the wire. She's absolutely not a good person and it's made evident through out the show. Like her motivation is to control people and her relationship with her wife is a mirror of what's going on with Kilgrave. It infuriates her that her wife won't sign the papers. That's her motivation. She doesn't have Kilgrave's backstory etc.. She is just a controlling and manipulative person Ending spoilers Pam, Jeri's secretary and lover also executed her control and power over Jeri in order to push her to do whatever it would take to finalize this divorce. Jeri wouldn't have freed Kilgrave if it wasn't for that scene where Pam was like I know you love me as she was moving Jeri's hand around(literally physically controlling her). using sex and Jeri's love of her as a leverage point to finally push Jeri over the edge. She gave Jeri an Ultimatum and talked about how the reason she fell in love with her was because of how she took whatever it it she wanted consequences be damned. This ended up with Pam being arrested for Murder, and ruining that relationship. This show is just really a tour de force in showing all forms of control, abuse, and manipulation and the consequences there of from drat near every character. Dexo fucked around with this message at 20:41 on Nov 21, 2015 |
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Nov 21, 2015 20:38
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Hollismason posted:It serves also as a reflection of Kilgrave from a feminine role. If they didn't have her in the role it wouldn't have fleshed out Kilgrave as much. Remove her roles or skip it and then you have the issue not just be about men but just abuse of all forms. Not arguing against it's inclusion, arguing that there was too much of it at the detriment to other aspects. madey posted:1x2 Whats up with all the piss? I'm two episodes in and theres already been three allusions to people pissing themselves and multiple kidney conditions. Fear allusion. It reinforces the terror aspect of Killgrave.
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Nov 21, 2015 20:41
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Gyges posted:Not arguing against it's inclusion, arguing that there was too much of it at the detriment to other aspects. Yeah but without those scenes even though I wasn't enthusiatic with them her character doesn't have a arc. I don't know if her arc though is parallel to Jessica's. Also it's a stark realistic example of the downward spiral that can happen. edit: I actually can't think of any scenes where a man saves a woman in a cliche fashion in the series. Anyone? Hollismason fucked around with this message at 20:47 on Nov 21, 2015 |
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Nov 21, 2015 20:44
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Hollismason posted:Yeah but without those scenes even though I wasn't enthusiatic with them her character doesn't have a arc. I don't know if her arc though is parallel to Jessica's. Also it's a stark realistic example of the downward spiral that can happen. We didn't need all of the scenes though. A great many of them are simply repeating the same character beats. I mean, sure the character needs to do something more than once to establish it as integral to the character instead of a happenstance of circumstance. I just think that 3 times is enough and we didn't need to constantly go back to it, reinforcing and reinforcing the idea. Especially since the last scene in the house is a whole shitload of stating what is going on. Edit: It's entirely possible that the scenes are looming larger in my memory than is warranted due to streaming. quote:I actually can't think of any scenes where a man saves a woman in a cliche fashion in the series. Anyone? 1X13 Killgrave and Simpson both attempt to do so but are stopped by Jessica and Patsy. Killgrave looks to save the woman and children being held hostage by shooting the offender with a big ol gun. Simpson tries several times to prove he's the alpha there to protect the weak women and is shown up by both Jessica and Patsy, which is part of what drives him to hate Jessica. In contrast Luke never tries to save Jessica like a damsel in distress. While he is always up to help her out, she's the one taking the lead. Unless I'm forgetting a fight.
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Nov 21, 2015 21:00
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Gyges posted:We didn't need all of the scenes though. A great many of them are simply repeating the same character beats. I mean, sure the character needs to do something more than once to establish it as integral to the character instead of a happenstance of circumstance. I just think that 3 times is enough and we didn't need to constantly go back to it, reinforcing and reinforcing the idea. Especially since the last scene in the house is a whole shitload of stating what is going on. This show isn't trying to be subtle it is bludgeoning you in the head with everything it does. 1x13 Killgrave's punishment to Jeri, was Death by 1000 cuts, Jessica early on yells "You raped me, both mentally and literally"
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Nov 21, 2015 21:06
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Yep that was amazing. I liked this way better than Daredevil.
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Nov 21, 2015 21:25
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Hollismason posted:edit:
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Nov 21, 2015 21:30
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Snak posted:1x1-1x8(or 7, I can't remember where I stopped) I feel like DD S2 is going to be way more thematically consistent, if Punisher is going to be the villain. Daredevil/Punisher has always been a great feud, because they're moral opposites. Matt puts all of his faith into justice, while Frank believes no-one is incorruptible. So the series can explore the conflict of Matt becoming a vigilante while trying to stop a man who is the logical conclusion of Matt's methods. Too much of Daredevil was spent on side characters, which was sadly necessary because it was the first series.
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Nov 21, 2015 21:38
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AtraMorS posted:I'm only through episode 11, but Simpson's entire character arc has been him trying and failing to be John McClain. He's almost a pure deconstruction of the masculine ideal of the man of will and how toxic it is. Every time he tries to step in to protect a woman (usually because she's a woman), he just gets in the way and fucks things up even worse. Even when it gets him and his partners blown up, he still doesn't get the message. He just goes even further off the "gotta be more dudely" cliff. I believe he exclusively refers to other super black ops team guys as "my boys" as well. He's like pure patriarchy. Becoming more and more unhinged as Jessica and Patsy subvert his power and authority.
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Nov 21, 2015 21:39
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Hollismason posted:It serves also as a reflection of Kilgrave from a feminine role. If they didn't have her in the role it wouldn't have fleshed out Kilgrave as much. Remove her roles or skip it and then you have the issue not just be about men but just abuse of all forms. There'd still be parental abuse from multiple characters so even without Hogarth it's not just about men abusing women, they've done a good job about showing a bunch of different angles. But yeah removing Hogarth would detract from this.
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Nov 21, 2015 21:41
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It's not just subverting patriarchal views but specificaly WHITE patriarchal views.
Hollismason fucked around with this message at 22:14 on Nov 21, 2015 |
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Nov 21, 2015 22:04
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Did everyone post already about the typo in episode 11?
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Nov 21, 2015 22:27
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If Malcolm seems very familiar to some of you, you might be thinking of his role as the pigeon-keeping gladiator in Spartacus.
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Nov 21, 2015 22:27
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puchu posted:Did everyone post already about the typo in episode 11? What typo
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Nov 21, 2015 22:31
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This show is depressing.
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Nov 21, 2015 22:38
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1x08 - Bitches right?
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Nov 21, 2015 22:52
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Hollismason posted:It's not just subverting patriarchal views but specificaly WHITE patriarchal views. Goons analyze TV .txt
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Nov 21, 2015 22:55
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The Sharmat posted:Goons analyze TV .txt Needs more fascism.
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Nov 21, 2015 23:02
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It's odd that they never include the Avengers tower in skyline shots, despite it being in marketing materials and easy to insert.
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Nov 21, 2015 23:05
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Simpson was pretty eye rolly to me. Instead of deconstructing anything they were using him to tack a bunch of issues onto instead of giving him something cohesive to do. He took all these weird left turns out of no where because....well I'm not sure why. As soon as he seemed to make character development, like talking to Trish and swapping stories, the writers went "oh snap he might be sympathetic and relatable now quick someone hand this guy the Idiot/Conflict Ball!!!" Like we have Kilgrave as a villain already, do we need Sgt CopMan as one too? It made the series feel super bloated, like the writer's room ran out of ideas halfway through and decided the easiest way to pad it out to 13 episodes was to swerve the guy into unearned dipshittery. We didn't get any logic or justification behind it except "I'm supposed to save people." Okay that's a good start, what else? IDK, it just annoyed the hell out of me when the episodes came to a screeching halt to deal with Simpson and his dumb useless problems. It was boring, the pills were boring, the everything was boring.
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Nov 21, 2015 23:13
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Hollismason posted:What typo At one point there's a text message from 'Unknown' but in the body of the text unknown is spelled without the first n edit: watch from 24 minutes in / 27 minutes to go and it's that text message
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Nov 21, 2015 23:32
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gently caress this show is dark 
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Nov 21, 2015 23:51
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I just finished ep 5 I think and I love this show. I love how human it.is. So many other shows are just content to show people being victimized , but Jessica Jones has the compassion to slow the plot long enough to recognize their suffering and worth. This is a more nuanced and emotionally intelligent show than most anything on TV right now, and I dont know if its bc of the heavily female crew and cast and I dont care. I just want more like it.
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Nov 21, 2015 23:54
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Gyges posted:I believe he exclusively refers to other super black ops team guys as "my boys" as well. He's like pure patriarchy. Becoming more and more unhinged as Jessica and Patsy subvert his power and authority. This show was deeply personal for me. I'm often painted as a gigantic SJW killjoy because I don't appreciate how a lot of shows deal with issues like this, and the responses I get that move beyond just  :jerkoff:, are often akin to "do you just want every show to be sunshine and rainbows? God, I hate that YOU PEOPLE always need to talk about this stuff."It happened in this very thread to a few people concerned with how the show was going to treat PTSD. So to have a show that talks about it, and treats it with respect, and isn't just "here's some shocking poo poo for shock value," it's a rare and incredible treat, and this was a genuine pleasure to watch.
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Nov 21, 2015 23:59
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HIJK posted:Simpson was pretty eye rolly to me. Instead of deconstructing anything they were using him to tack a bunch of issues onto instead of giving him something cohesive to do. He took all these weird left turns out of no where because....well I'm not sure why. As soon as he seemed to make character development, like talking to Trish and swapping stories, the writers went "oh snap he might be sympathetic and relatable now quick someone hand this guy the Idiot/Conflict Ball!!!" 1X13 It's because he has severe mental issues and then starts taking shitloads of super science pills way, way beyond the recommended dose for Oh poo poo, we're in a war situations. He wasn't really all that stable to begin with, then Killgrave hosed with his head some more, then he went off the deep end on paranoia, xenophobia, and the like while inadvertently being egged on by Jessica. They did stuff a little too much of that plot line in for the season 2/defenders set up, but a lot of that plot line was integral to the 1st season. He's yet another pile of unintended consequences that comes from Killgrave controlling people on a whim.
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Nov 22, 2015 00:00
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Hollismason posted:Yeah but without those scenes even though I wasn't enthusiatic with them her character doesn't have a arc. I don't know if her arc though is parallel to Jessica's. Also it's a stark realistic example of the downward spiral that can happen. Again, only up to ep 5 but I really live that this hasn't happened yet, and when it threatens to, its quickly deflated.
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Nov 22, 2015 00:09
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Gyges posted:1X13 Episode 13 Also, Nuke was created as part of the Weapon Plus program, a program notrious for creating mentally unstable powered people, like Wolverine, Sabertooth, and Deadpool.
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Nov 22, 2015 00:10
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Gyges posted:1X13 I guess. I just found it extra insufferable after the wheels were already coming off with with Kilgrave trying to play house and then Jessica trying to get him to be a good person and all that junk. LividLiquid posted:This was one of my favorite parts of the show, and that's saying something for a brilliant season of television that manages to talk about abuse and mental illness without getting all exploitey. So basically all the people who said "watch the show before freaking out over the portrayals of trauma and aftermath" were proven correct and the handwringing amd teeth gnashing was all for nought? Imagine that.
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Nov 22, 2015 00:10
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This show makes Agent Carter seem kind of childish in comparison to how it handled a related theme.
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Nov 22, 2015 00:19
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Best quote of the entire show : Kilgrave: I once told a man to go screw himself, can you imagine?
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Nov 22, 2015 00:28
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