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Truga
May 4, 2014
Lipstick Apathy
I'm 12 and what is this?

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Octopode
Sep 2, 2009

No. I work here. I manage operations for this and integration for this, while making sure that their stuff keeps working in here.

SirTagz posted:

Could you smart guys please explain to me why should spatial 64bit coordinate system cause precision problems for a 32bit renderer which recenters the coordinates on the player?

Let's take two datatypes - one goes from -32,768 to 32,767 (for spatial positioning) and the second from -128 to 127 (for renderer). If our player is in position 1000 in space and the object he is observing is in position 1100, then translated into the smaller address space, the player's position would be 0 and the object's 100. Nothing is lost. You just cull out all objects which are further than 127 units from the player. The fact that you use 3 points to mark the location in 3d space instead of the one I used shouldn't really change anything.

Please explain to me, what I am missing here? Why should coordinate system translation cause problems in precision? I honestly want to know.

You're not missing anything. The only time you run into trouble is trying to render things outside the space in which you can get reliable precision with 32 bit floats, in which case, you either cull, or implement some other technique to move them into 32 bit precision space, like scale them down in size and moving them closer to the camera to give false distance.

peter gabriel
Nov 8, 2011

Hello Commandos

Truga posted:

I'm 12 and what is this?

it's computer games :3:

Octopode
Sep 2, 2009

No. I work here. I manage operations for this and integration for this, while making sure that their stuff keeps working in here.

D_Smart posted:

1) He wasn't far enough from any object of interest. In fact, he never left the extents of the largest object (station) in the region

2) He never flew from the 1st or 3rd person view with said largest object within the view frustum and other smaller objects

It's there; I was just experiencing it about an hour ago when I was doing a play through with a friend of mine.

On the PTU launch day, before the patch, the jittering was clearly visible when stationary on the exact same platform on that station in the moving rings.

Edit: And at about 1:35, he is clearly in motion with the station in view, as well as the Constellation.

Octopode fucked around with this message at 00:27 on Nov 22, 2015

SirTagz
Feb 25, 2014

Truga posted:

It can cause visual glitches. Your card determines which pixels to render by using the z coordinate (depth). At longer ranges, this can quickly result in one texture glitching through the other, because due to float point imprecision, your card thought one texture was in front of the other, when it's really not.

It's also by no means limited to a game with 64 bit coordinate system, it's just that 64 bits allow you much longer ranges, thus making the glitch much easier to come across.

I understand floating point imprecision. I agree that objects near the border of the 32bit world could get jittery even if the coordinates are correctly translated from 64bit to 32bit - but we know from AC that in their current coordinate density, that is at least several km of space away from the player. The jittering shown in those gifs is significantly closer, it seems to me. It cannot be the floating point imprecision of the 32bit float edge coordinates

D_Smart
May 11, 2010

by FactsAreUseless
College Slice

AP posted:

It's been sorta two days since sale start, they've made ~1 million.

9 days left with 4.5 million until they break 100 million.

If they fix the crashes I think they have a very good chance and they'll get a massive PR boost from having something new that looks impressive (in places) at the same time as breaking 100 million.

They may break $100m by year end if the sales hold up.

What people are missing is that right now there is no "game" and not much to do. It's just an amazing look tech demo still. And over 90% of the stuff they touted, the most important being multi-crew,
isn't working properly.

I think that 2.0 is going to be in the PTU maybe right through the year because there is no way they will take it out of there and make it a live release with all these bugs in it. Which was precisely what I'd said back in Oct that 2.0 probably won't be out until 2016.

Loiosh posted:

How much do you think they'd need to deliver a final something that includes the PU? I would guess they'd need around $130 million to finish it up and make delivery of a PU in 2017. I don't know how much longer you can make money off JPEGs.

I believe I already said 2-3 years and another $75m+. And that's not even taking into account SQ42 expenses.

I still do not believe that this project - as is - will survive 2016. If it does, I would be very shocked indeed.

The Saddest Robot
Apr 17, 2007
It's probably the physics engine spazzing out when the game is trying to update positions from the network server.

Truga
May 4, 2014
Lipstick Apathy

SirTagz posted:

I understand floating point imprecision. I agree that objects near the border of the 32bit world could get jittery even if the coordinates are correctly translated from 64bit to 32bit - but we know from AC that in their current coordinate density, that is at least several km of space away from the player. The jittering shown in those gifs is significantly closer, it seems to me. It cannot be the floating point imprecision of the 32bit float edge coordinates

The jittering in the game you see is because the entire game is janky as gently caress.

SirTagz
Feb 25, 2014

Truga posted:

The jittering in the game you see is because the entire game is janky as gently caress.

I can accept janky, those things can be fixed. I was worried I was observing math. That poo poo is harder


Edit: Had to google it. Here you go, other unhip people.. definition of janky: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=janky
(adjective) inferior quality; held in low social regard; old and delapidated; refers almost exclusively to inanimate material objects, not to people

...so it is a fixer-upper

SirTagz fucked around with this message at 00:33 on Nov 22, 2015

Romes128
Dec 28, 2008


Fun Shoe
If a game gets release goons will ruin it

If it doesn't get released and cig collapses it's lols all around

We can't lose.

redwalrus
Jul 27, 2013

:stoke:

D_Smart posted:

Granted he is playing solo, but this is one of the coolest Star Citizen videos you will see today. Stuff like this is what pisses me off the most about what could've been were the game's scope kept in check :(

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PajwXmZHrFw

the smoke rotates with the ship, not in a good way, looks dumb

Romes128
Dec 28, 2008


Fun Shoe
I like how they've managed to make a more annoying computer voice than in ED

Danknificent
Nov 20, 2015

Jinkies! Looks like we've got a mystery on our hands.
I think their chances of hitting 100 mil are pretty good. I'd expect them to make a pretty big deal about it, and there could even be some media coverage/clickbait "Crowdfunded Game Passes 100 Million" and such - but won't that invite more commentary to the effect of "They've gotten 100 million dollars and they have what to show for it?

SirTagz
Feb 25, 2014

Danknificent posted:

I think their chances of hitting 100 mil are pretty good. I'd expect them to make a pretty big deal about it, and there could even be some media coverage/clickbait "Crowdfunded Game Passes 100 Million" and such - but won't that invite more commentary to the effect of "They've gotten 100 million dollars and they have what to show for it?

Yeah, they have bought enough good will to make it to 100mil. The question CR falls asleep to is if they can make it by the year's end. I would not put it past them to whip out the company credit cards and start Christmas shopping on their own site. The pledge counter only counts the money coming in, not going out, afterall

Romes128
Dec 28, 2008


Fun Shoe
There's already been some questioning of their sales figures in this thread . Some people think they're inflating their numbers to build hype.

Could be one of the many reasons they don't release financials. There's a possibility they could be millions of dollars short of their reported total sales.

Danknificent
Nov 20, 2015

Jinkies! Looks like we've got a mystery on our hands.
The word on the street was that they were eating fees to postpone filing. Can anyone with legit knowledge confirm that those fees are meaningful, or that they impose any measure of urgency?

Rad Russian
Aug 15, 2007

Soviet Power Supreme!

Romes128 posted:

There's already been some questioning of their sales figures in this thread . Some people think they're inflating their numbers to build hype.

Could be one of the many reasons they don't release financials. There's a possibility they could be millions of dollars short of their reported total sales.

Not to mention never subtracting the refunds.

SirTagz
Feb 25, 2014

Romes128 posted:

There's already been some questioning of their sales figures in this thread . Some people think they're inflating their numbers to build hype.

Could be one of the many reasons they don't release financials. There's a possibility they could be millions of dollars short of their reported total sales.

Yeah. My contribution to the theory is that they do not necessarily lie on the counter - the money shown is in-fact the money transferred to their account by ship-sales. What I suggest is that they are buying the ships with the company money - practically counting each dollar several times, minus the transfer fee. I totally have proof of this but I have to wait for Legal to clear this before I post my in-depth investigation.

Enchanted Hat
Aug 18, 2013

Defeated in Diplomacy under suspicious circumstances

Danknificent posted:

The word on the street was that they were eating fees to postpone filing. Can anyone with legit knowledge confirm that those fees are meaningful, or that they impose any measure of urgency?

The fees are tiny, and one of the UK companies finally released an annual report. It's likely to be a complete non-issue unless poor record-keeping starts affecting their tax compliance, which could be an actual problem for them.

Enchanted Hat fucked around with this message at 00:52 on Nov 22, 2015

XK
Jul 9, 2001

Star Citizen is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it's fidelity when you look out your window or when you watch youtube

AP posted:

I have no real clue considering how unstable the people in charge appear to be, but Steve Jobs was apparently an arsehole and got stuff done, so if you assume they can cut down to 3 million a month as a burn rate, another 18 months needs 54 million.

Steve Jobs was the one-out-of-a-billion narcissistic rear end in a top hat control freaks who actually had a completely realistic perfectionist vision for what he wanted that meshed with the real world and the consumer market. Chris Roberts is not Steve Jobs.

SirTagz
Feb 25, 2014

XK posted:

Steve Jobs was the one-out-of-a-billion narcissistic rear end in a top hat control freaks who actually had a completely realistic perfectionist vision for what he wanted that meshed with the real world and the consumer market. Chris Roberts is not Steve Jobs.

I wish Musk managed this project. He knows how to spend 100 mil. But from what I have heard, he is a nano-manager

AP
Jul 12, 2004

One Ring to fool them all
One Ring to find them
One Ring to milk them all
and pockets fully line them
Grimey Drawer

D_Smart posted:

They may break $100m by year end if the sales hold up.

What people are missing is that right now there is no "game" and not much to do. It's just an amazing look tech demo still. And over 90% of the stuff they touted, the most important being multi-crew,
isn't working properly.

Derek it's possible they can be on 100 million in 9 days, we just don't know how much water is left in the well. Seriously the last two 24 hour periods have been ~500k each and they haven't sold the phoenix yet. If they fix the crashes they have something real to show for the first time since Arena Commander in August 2014.

As with the Day Z example, the fact there's little actual game doesn't always matter if they can keep selling a dream. Also the 100 million would take this November's total to roughly what November was last year and it's important to backer confidence not to show a year to year drop. I'd be surprised if their intention isn't to hit 100 million this month, if at all possible, just to tie everything up neatly for the press release.

If it was me and I was shameless, I'd sell the Idris, the Javelin and the 890 Jump again just to do it.

Regarde Aduck
Oct 19, 2012
Probation
Can't post for 6 hours!
Grimey Drawer
Steve Jobs cancelled all Apple's charity contributions just to get a sadistic boner, stole a mans organs and ascended into hyperspace.

AP
Jul 12, 2004

One Ring to fool them all
One Ring to find them
One Ring to milk them all
and pockets fully line them
Grimey Drawer

XK posted:

Steve Jobs was the one-out-of-a-billion narcissistic rear end in a top hat control freaks who actually had a completely realistic perfectionist vision for what he wanted that meshed with the real world and the consumer market. Chris Roberts is not Steve Jobs.

Well no, that's why they have different names.

Romes128
Dec 28, 2008


Fun Shoe

Enchanted Hat posted:

The fees are tiny, and one of the UK companies finally released an annual report. It's likely to be a complete non-issue unless poor record-keeping starts affecting their tax compliance, which could be an actual problem for them.

The director of marketing was handling customer service emails before she said gently caress it and started going on acting auditions. They have problems starting at the top.


Accounting is always the hardest thing to get right and where most companies get in trouble. Also take into consideration they're working under multiple name and in different countries. Unless they have dozens of accountants and competent controllers they'll be in bad shape if they get audited.

trucutru
Jul 9, 2003

by Fluffdaddy

SirTagz posted:

Yeah. My contribution to the theory is that they do not necessarily lie on the counter - the money shown is in-fact the money transferred to their account by ship-sales. What I suggest is that they are buying the ships with the company money - practically counting each dollar several times, minus the transfer fee. I totally have proof of this but I have to wait for Legal to clear this before I post my in-depth investigation.

Never underestimate imbeciles, specially the ones with money. I am positive they have not cheated on that number.

Source: I play freemium games.

peter gabriel
Nov 8, 2011

Hello Commandos

Regarde Aduck posted:

Steve Jobs cancelled all Apple's charity contributions just to get a sadistic boner, stole a mans organs and ascended into hyperspace.

See now this is a game I'd play

Pittsburgh Lambic
Feb 16, 2011

redwalrus posted:

the smoke rotates with the ship, not in a good way, looks dumb

That at least is fixable. If the studio is properly run, graphical polishing like that will take place at a late stage of development, when proper beta testing is taking place so developers can see what other issues creep into the scene when a large-scale player engagement is taking place.

This being CIG, however, someone high up will probably see that video, yell that the smoke looks awful, and divert a bunch of resources that could otherwise be used to make a playable game towards drawing pretty space smoke.

Truga
May 4, 2014
Lipstick Apathy

trucutru posted:

Never underestimate imbeciles, specially the ones with money. I am positive they have not cheated on that number.

Source: I play freemium games.

peter gabriel
Nov 8, 2011

Hello Commandos

Pittsburgh Lambic posted:

That at least is fixable. If the studio is properly run, graphical polishing like that will take place at a late stage of development, when proper beta testing is taking place so developers can see what other issues creep into the scene when a large-scale player engagement is taking place.

This being CIG, however, someone high up will probably see that video, yell that the smoke looks awful, and divert a bunch of resources that could otherwise be used to make a playable game towards drawing pretty space smoke.

They'll fix it by spending millions of dollars making the rest of the game rotate and the smoke stays still

peter gabriel
Nov 8, 2011

Hello Commandos
Also:
http://www.twitch.tv/badnewsbaron

serious norman
Dec 13, 2007

im pickle rick!!!!
is the game out yet?

trucutru
Jul 9, 2003

by Fluffdaddy

peter gabriel posted:

They'll fix it by spending millions of dollars making the rest of the game rotate and the smoke stays still

You lack true vision.

They'll ask players to buy a madcatz robot arm that rotates them while the ship rotates with you and the smoke stays still.

peter gabriel
Nov 8, 2011

Hello Commandos

trucutru posted:

You lack true vision.

They'll ask players to buy a madcatz robot arm that rotates them while the ship rotates with you and the smoke stays still.

In Stock

Tarezax
Sep 12, 2009

MORT cancels dance: interrupted by MORT

trucutru posted:

Never underestimate imbeciles, specially the ones with money. I am positive they have not cheated on that number.

Source: I play freemium games.

how much did you spend chasing christmas sakuya

Tank Boy Ken
Aug 24, 2012
J4G for life
Fallen Rib

Loiosh posted:

...
Anyways, that's just a specific story from one development. I remember back then how people were saying a lot of similar things, both that WoW was doing nothing innovative, but was buggy and terrible and how dare they take so long to work on it. Instancing wasn't new, Anarchy Online had that! Seemless zone loading wasn't new! Gryphon flights were not impressive, gently caress Blizzard taking forever.
...

I played WoW a couple of years after launch for a bit. And the best feature over other MMOs (for me) was the Quests (and the accompanying journal). I guess this just goes to show that not everyone is impressed by the same features. Sometimes a game doesn't need to be innovative to be good. See Killing Floor 2, which is just an upgraded version of Killing Floor (1).

trucutru
Jul 9, 2003

by Fluffdaddy

Tarezax posted:

how much did you spend chasing christmas sakuya

Around 20 bucks. I may be a whale but I'm not as dumb as to chase that.

Mirificus
Oct 29, 2004

Kings need not raise their voices to be heard


https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/3tly5g/psa_just_because_a_ship_loses_value_on_the_grey/

The Saddest Robot
Apr 17, 2007
My backer number is lower than yours so I am better than you.

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Romes128
Dec 28, 2008


Fun Shoe
Derek has anyone mentioned why they're moving from Texas to California other than sandi wants to act and cr wants to make movies?

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