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Paladinus posted:That's actually quite cheap compared to other games. Indeed. Unless they change their minds of course. Also, I have my doubts that any of the really expensive ships will be useful to any individual gamers. I mean unless they can somehow convince an army of people to sit in turrets and point and click all day, all those big ships are utterly useless to anyone outside of clans.
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Nov 23, 2015 16:05
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Beet Wagon posted:And that time estimate is (like everything else related to star citizen) extremely subject to change. Well yeah, obviously. I'm still of the opinion that even with what we have here in these threads, by far the most hilarity this game could generate would be if it was shipped exactly as pitched. Riddled with super retarded mini-games for people who hate combat, large ships being completely useless to whales who bought them due to the requirement of having friends, and playing with 10 friends you could buy a $250 spaceboat in a weekend of casual play a couple hours each. It'd be the best thing. I'll live with just D_Smart of all the nutcases making GBS threads on Crobbits though. That's pretty high up there too. Agrajag posted:if bought out the thousands of dollars spent of multiple jpegs are gone. there is a 100% chance that whoever bought it out will make massive massive cuts to get anything out the door and everything that was promised during their crowdfunding outside of kickstarter is void. Ah but why would anyone sane give them money outside of kick... ohhhhh
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Nov 23, 2015 16:06
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Iglocska posted:Seriously a 60 hour head-start on progression in an MMO is not pay to win. What would be pay to win would be a ship that is exclusive to backers. I'll post my thoughts again, to make the point clearer: There's a serious balancing problem with the value of ships that CR has brought onto himself. Either they'll make the ships attainable through doable grinding. This means, due to people being the way they are, that within a few days of release people who payed the bare minimum to get into the game will be riding around in ships that whales have been paying thousands of dollars for. This will make whales extremely unhappy. Or, the big ships will be nearly unattainable for anyone but the most insane. Whales will be happy, but the game will be blatantly pay to win (or at least, pay to gain massive advantages). e: Seriously, if you sell something for 2.500 loving united states dollars, you attach a certain notion of value onto it. Erenthal fucked around with this message at 16:12 on Nov 23, 2015 |
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Nov 23, 2015 16:09
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Paladinus posted:Another thing. I believe Croberts claims that almost all ships will be later available for in-game currency but will cost more. So, uhm, to buy the shittiest champion in League of Legends I can either win one hour-long game or pay something like two dollars. In Hearthstone to unlock one wing of an adventure (that give new cards) I can either spend 5 hours during one week to complete daily quests and grind for gold or pay five dollars. How long will one have to play to buy a ship that costs more than $100 now? Supposedly the $250 Constellation will take less than 100 hours to earn. Possibly 60.
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Nov 23, 2015 16:10
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Iglocska posted:Indeed. Unless they change their minds of course. All the turrets should've been remote controlled with an automation options. The Retaliator's interior is completely ruined because you need to have physical access to all the turrets around the ship. And who the gently caress wants to be on constant turret duty? That seems like the most boring poo poo ever. With remote/automated turrets a single co-pilot could seamlessly jump between them while also managing other ship systems (is this what Elite is going to do?).
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Nov 23, 2015 16:11
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Iglocska posted:If it turns out to be as good as Freelancer was then I think a lot of people would be happy though. Pretty much this. This game only ever needed to be basically Freelancer 2.0 / Starlancer 2.0 (no Freelancer doesn't count for this, as it was the privateer to wing commander's WC2). Now it has FPS and extra shite it never actually needed. I went into Starlancer and Freelancer with absolutely no expectations, and had a blast. Starlancer was actually fun, and Freelancer (while having a cliche story, yes) was also fun - moreso in multiplayer with other people to fight with/against on PvP servers. SC so far is looking like it's trying to appeal to both crowds at once in relation to those games (not necessarily bad - hypothetically) and then stumbling over its own bootlaces (the game engine, and rewrite). Most of the problem comes from hype and "marketing" coupled with significant feature creep (aliens are fine, alien languages are pointless - what, they don't have future translators that are better than babelfish or google translate? really?). I'm guessing we will get *something* out of this though. My money says that it will be nothing like what the SC community hype machine would have you believe though.
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Nov 23, 2015 16:12
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It's not quite as bad as it seems, I think. Most expensive ships are multicrew, and AI will suck. Probably. And bombers are relatively inexpensive to earn up for. I'm going to guess it will take fewer people to take down a Javelin than it does to man it. Couple gladiators with some fighter cover. I have a feeling that if this lasts, yes, I know it won't, but if it does, we might wind up with something very Euro Truck Simulator with the combat toned down.
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Nov 23, 2015 16:13
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Truga posted:I'm sorry you live in the wild west. Here in the 21st century, scams get prosecuted. Who would take CIG to court and how would they be able to prove that it was fraud or a scam? The only times these sort of things ever go through the courts is if the company is dumb enough to piss off: 1)A Bank 2)A Government (that was acting like a bank) And its mostly just to liquidate assets to pay them back. Incompetently handling a situation is not illegal in this country. (Well at least in the private sector) Cao Ni Ma fucked around with this message at 16:17 on Nov 23, 2015 |
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Nov 23, 2015 16:15
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For even more entertainment, ponder the idea of charging $1 for 1000 space bux when a glorified golf cart costs 15,000.
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Nov 23, 2015 16:16
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Iglocska posted:Indeed. Unless they change their minds of course. You know autism is a thing right?
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Nov 23, 2015 16:17
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Erenthal posted:I'll post my thoughts again, to make the point clearer: There's a serious balancing problem with the value of ships that CR has brought onto himself. In my opinion (and I've spent around $700 on the game in total) - anything that you can get via pledges should be trivial to get for players actually playing the game. If it makes whales extremely unhappy so be it. Any ship that you get is a token gift to you for donating money for them, whoever doesn't agree with this is an idiot.
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Nov 23, 2015 16:17
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:For even more entertainment, ponder the idea of charging $1 for 1000 space bux when a glorified golf cart costs 15,000. And the guns cost anywhere from 4000spacebux through to 16000 or so. Anyone wanna guess what happens *if* clothing options are ever released? (obviously this assuming that a character creator is ever developed).
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Nov 23, 2015 16:18
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Truga posted:Well yeah, obviously. This whole thing has been sweet sumptuous butter as far as I'm concerned. I hope they make it far enough to crap out some kind of stable release just for the amazing trolling possibilities, but if not then at least I will have gotten a ringside seat to a prizefight between two irrelevant old dinosaurs. Hell, I've spent more time playing this ARG than I have in any other game this month.
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Nov 23, 2015 16:19
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:Supposedly the $250 Constellation will take less than 100 hours to earn. Possibly 60. How many of those hours are spent watching overly slow animations with no control of your character's head?
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Nov 23, 2015 16:19
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Iglocska posted:Any ship that you get is a token gift to you for donating money for them, whoever doesn't agree with this is an idiot. I know that this is the "official" reasoning, but it is complete bullshit. People aren't "donating", they are buying ships. They are blatantly buying ships. Look at the marketing. The sales. The web-store. The people bragging about their purchases. CIG can claim all the way that it is friendly donations with token gifts as thanks, just as you say above, but we know it ain't true.
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Nov 23, 2015 16:20
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neonbregna posted:You know autism is a thing right? Hey if they can really man a capital ship with people willing to play a turret - more power to these guys.
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Nov 23, 2015 16:20
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Danknificent posted:How many of those hours are spent watching overly slow animations with no control of your character's head? At least 10 hours 
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Nov 23, 2015 16:21
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Danknificent posted:How many of those hours are spent watching overly slow animations with no control of your character's head? Currently all of them since the game then immediately crashes.
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Nov 23, 2015 16:23
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Erenthal posted:I know that this is the "official" reasoning, but it is complete bullshit. Could be, but I am still hoping it is true. I have luckily not seen any official communication about anything you get amounting to a major advantage in-game (devs have claimed again and again that LTI is useless, the ships you get come with crappy equipment and getting a base ship ingame won't take long). Is it a bit dishonest against people that obviously seem to be "min/maxing" their crazy expensive fleet? Maybe. Do I care about that as long as the game stays play to win? Hell no, let them whine.
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Nov 23, 2015 16:23
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Iglocska posted:Hey if they can really man a capital ship with people willing to play a turret - more power to these guys. The desire is there. It seems like every time I check on reddit there's a handful of people REALLY excited to be like "Radioman #2" or whatever. So the problem is building gameplay that doesn't immediately ruin that desire to be part of a big crew, and that's where I think they are gonna have trouble.
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Nov 23, 2015 16:23
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CIG's decision to make LTI super common is also going to fundamentally change how the game is played. The super hardcore heavy on consequences game some of the true believers are still dreaming about won't ever exist because insurance is effectively free and infinite.
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Nov 23, 2015 16:25
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Beet Wagon posted:The desire is there. It seems like every time I check on reddit there's a handful of people REALLY excited to be like "Radioman #2" or whatever. So the problem is building gameplay that doesn't immediately ruin that desire to be part of a big crew, and that's where I think they are gonna have trouble. I can't understand why they would want that, but no matter what game I play I always run into the most obscure gameplay features that obviously appeal to some people. However, just going by the numbers (let's say you need 10 people to efficiently man an Idris) - you won't find THIS many people willing to be on turret duty, that I am sure of. We'll end up seeing $2500 ships piloted by 2-3 people with 90% of the armaments just sitting idly by while we get to hammer away at them in our cheap ships. I can't wait!
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Nov 23, 2015 16:27
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kikkelivelho posted:CIG's decision to make LTI super common is also going to fundamentally change how the game is played. The super hardcore heavy on consequences game some of the true believers are still dreaming about won't ever exist because insurance is effectively free and infinite. That seems like a way less risky route to take than going the other direction and having some idiot lose his five thousand dollar spaceship because somebody he let onboard decided to get drunk, kill him, and fly it into the sun or whatever. I mean that sounds incredibly fun but could you imagine the blowback on them?
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Nov 23, 2015 16:27
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kikkelivelho posted:CIG's decision to make LTI super common is also going to fundamentally change how the game is played. The super hardcore heavy on consequences game some of the true believers are still dreaming about won't ever exist because insurance is effectively free and infinite. That is not necessarily true. The biggest punishment you can sentence a gamer to is boredom (be it having to regrind their assets or simply having to wait) - if insurance is implemented well then players will have to wait a considerable time to get their ships back. That's consequence enough imho.
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Nov 23, 2015 16:28
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Erenthal posted:Seriously, if you sell something for 2.500 loving united states dollars, you attach a certain notion of value onto it. Actually I think you'll find that is a donation and you are not buying anything. Don't get confused just because they use words like "sale" and jpegs can be "in stock" or "out of stock" and people call it an "investment". You are helping Croberts achieve his dream, anything else is just extra. Iglocska posted:Any ship that you get is a token gift to you for donating money for them, whoever doesn't agree with this is an idiot. Sure! it dont matter fucked around with this message at 16:33 on Nov 23, 2015 |
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Nov 23, 2015 16:29
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  Lotta donating going on here. No selling of ships, no siree. I almost thought I visited UNICEFs homepage by mistake at first.
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Nov 23, 2015 16:31
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I was going to help some kids in Africa get clean water or save some endangered species but then I came to my senses and realised that no, this chubby failed director who dreams of space needs my money even more. This is right and just.
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Nov 23, 2015 16:33
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kikkelivelho posted:CIG's decision to make LTI super common is also going to fundamentally change how the game is played. The super hardcore heavy on consequences game some of the true believers are still dreaming about won't ever exist because insurance is effectively free and infinite. There's plans for cargo insurance and weapon/modules insurance, money making ships would have cargo/ore whatever and fighting ships would have better modules/weapons. LTI is just an even playing field, it doesn't change anything at all, you just assume everyone has it and levy a small charge on those that don't. The real money sink is in the extra insurance not covered by LTI. In December 2013 they had an issue of making LTI useful so people who backed early didn't feel cheated by it not being worth much and an issue of dealing with the people who didn't have it and wanted it. They have solved this issue as everyone can get it now if they want it. People used to say LTI was a happy accident they didn't intend and therefore forgive the issues that came with it. I don't believe that, LTI is a pure example of CIG marketing. Buy now or you miss out, really buy now or you miss out, buy now last chance, ok buy now we won't offer this again, buy now, there's a sale on you should buy now.
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Nov 23, 2015 16:33
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Good lord I just spent 75 dollars to get E:D and the Horizons beta and that feels like a lot, and I'm pretty comfortable. Kind of puts the SC spending figures in this thread in perspective for me. Yeesh.
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Nov 23, 2015 16:34
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Can you get charged VAT for donating money?
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Nov 23, 2015 16:38
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Danknificent posted:Good lord I just spent 75 dollars to get E:D and the Horizons beta and that feels like a lot, and I'm pretty comfortable. I just spent 15 dollars on sweatpants and I' m pretty comfortable 
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Nov 23, 2015 16:39
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kikkelivelho posted:CIG's decision to make LTI super common is also going to fundamentally change how the game is played. The super hardcore heavy on consequences game some of the true believers are still dreaming about won't ever exist because insurance is effectively free and infinite. That was going to be the case even without LTI, except you'd need to run a mission once per 3 months. According to CIG, a month of insurance should cost less than the reward of one mission, and insurance would only tick on days you log in. Speaking of LTI, is elite horizons beta live yet?
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Nov 23, 2015 16:39
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I feel there's a bit of a feeling of defeat by people in this thread with regards to the 2.0 build. Aside from the crashes, 2.0 is relatively a game - it's got ships and quests and destinations to go to. I think some of the new "recovered" goons are a bit taken aback by this. It suddenly looks like Roberts is getting somewhere with this game. That is not the case. Again, it's all about the scam. Remember, what you're seeing is the foundations of a video game. Nothing worth spending more than $60 for. At its current iteration, the game should be free, if any price is appropriate, because it's broken and still developing. But Roberts has charged more money for this foundation than any other game in history. And to keep the money coming, these foundations must be shown. It's like a casino. If no one got anything back, no one would go. But the casinos want you to see winners - they want you to see the person cheering, or the person having a great time. 2.0 is just the disguise of future sucess - and behind that curtain is failure. The game will fail due to 1) feature creep 2) unmanageable player expectations 3) a broken economy even before release Since none of those things are yet addressed, there's no way this game can be redeemed. The moral of my story is fret not new unbelievers; this game can go nowhere
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Nov 23, 2015 16:41
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Cao Ni Ma posted:Can you get charged VAT for donating money? No.
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Nov 23, 2015 16:44
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Just to be clear: I don't think LTI or cheap insurance are bad things if the game is balanced around them. There is however a large group of true believers who still cling to crobert's death of spaceman post and the idea of strong permadeath. IMO those things cannot coexist with the current insurance system
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Nov 23, 2015 16:44
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E:D's implementation of insurance is just fine. Everything comes with insurance, dying just means having to pay something like 10% of your ship cost so there's an element of risk and loss in playing but it's never enough to actually hurt unless you make a habit of riding dirty.
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Nov 23, 2015 16:46
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Cao Ni Ma posted:Can you get charged VAT for donating money? In the UK the government will actually chip in extra if you pay income tax. CIG should check that out will all the donating going on.
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Nov 23, 2015 16:52
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Alchenar posted:E:D's implementation of insurance is just fine. Everything comes with insurance, dying just means having to pay something like 10% of your ship cost so there's an element of risk and loss in playing but it's never enough to actually hurt unless you make a habit of riding dirty. The real death penalty is having to watch the get out of bed, choose your jpeg, climb into your jpeg, get in your seat etc animations over again. That's got to be a good few minutes of torture.
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Nov 23, 2015 16:55
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Star Citizen is actually a charity for failed actors and directors. It's like Make a Wish. People donate money so that Chris can make a movie with all those popular actors and Sandi can star in the same film with them.
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Nov 23, 2015 16:56
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Madcosby posted:I feel there's a bit of a feeling of defeat by people in this thread with regards to the 2.0 build. Aside from the crashes, 2.0 is relatively a game - it's got ships and quests and destinations to go to. The majority of backers paid less than $60 so if they get a normal game as a result that seems fair and a minority of backers have lost their minds and spent much more than this. They're not going to get what they expect and they were never going to get what they expect. They're likely to be extremely upset about the release state of SC no matter what that is. In terms of success or failure though, is it a failure if they fail to meet the impossible expectations of a minority of insane people? If they produce a reasonable game at the end of it that people play for a bit, is that really a failure? Sure, they over hyped things and the morality of abusing the faith of an unstable minority to milk ludicrous amounts of money for something you're never intending to delivery is extremely shady, but ultimately they're making a computer game and they're probably going to succeed in doing that. My prediction is that we're going to see a really amusing flip in position of this forum and the SC die hards when the game eventually comes out. I think people in this thread who have rightly criticised the game might actually end up buying it if it turns out to be a kinda fun space game. They'll probably grief some people and have fun doing it and probably mellow in their attitude towards CIG before moving on to something else. On the other hand, the die hards with their $5,000 investments will become furious with CIG for taking their money and not delivering the next coming of Jesus Christ in spaceship form. Their delusion that CIG could ever deliver this will be diverted into demonisation of CIG for throwing away the opportunity. Just as goons put down their "CIG sucks" banners and have a bit of fun playing a mediocre game, the redditors will pick them up. It's gonna be really funny to watch.
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