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BravestOfTheLamps posted:The real Superman almost drunkenly murders people by throwing them under subway trains. Let he who has not done something dumb and dangerous while heavily intoxicated throw the first stone.
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Nov 28, 2015 15:49
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double negative posted:They've already cast the villains for Luke Cage. Alfre Woodard as Black Mariah and Mahershala Ali as Cottonmouth. Before JJ, I'd have said that's too out there and controversial for Marvel to tackle, but between JJ and the new Daredevil season featuring Punisher as an antagonist, I'm hopeful. These series have been dealing with some heavy stuff.
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Nov 28, 2015 15:57
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Mooseontheloose posted:I wonder if they could use Tombstone, normally a Spider-Man villain and adjust him for Luke Cage. Keith David voiced an incredible Tombstone on an animated Spider-Man, where he was sort of a stand-in for Fisk. Far as I'm concerned he could still handle him in live action, too. 
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Nov 28, 2015 15:59
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Andrew_1985 posted:I also loved the moments Rytter dipped back into her Gia/Apartment 23 personas. "Congratulations! You've won a XBox One!" The flashback where she hustled the annoying guy for free drinks was pure Chloe.
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Nov 28, 2015 16:40
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Woden posted:AFAIK they've still only optioned 60 episodes, so 26 for Daredevil(2 seasons), 13 JJ, probably 13 Cage and 8 for the ensemble makes the 60. So second a season for JJ, first for IF, 3rd for DD or 2nd for Cage will take some renegotiation. you are forgetting about Iron Fist
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Nov 28, 2015 18:31
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Gyges posted:I think the Hogarth divorce plot is suffering from the same thing the Simpson as a super soldier plot is with viewers. The show clearly could have been cut by a few episodes and since those things don't directly tie into the plot for the most part, they're near the top of things to cut in viewers heads. Right along with the Weirdo Twins. Killgrave plot would probably be up there normally, but almost everyone likes Killgrave as a villain and weren't tired of him. I understand this point of view, but I totally disagree with it. Not every piece of the narrative needs to advance the plot. A story is made of both events and characters, and the inclusion of subplots that do not advance the main plot can still advance the story by providing context for the main characters. A lot of Jessica's character development is facilitated by showing how she treats other people and what she does for them. Hogarth and Simpson's subplots help illustrate that Jessica is neither interested in spite or revenge. Even the twin's serve a purpose. While Jessica initially pushed everyone away because she doesn't want Kilgrave to target them, the twins are a reminder that strong relationships can be more than the sum of their parts. Jessica's final victory over Kilgrave works because she trusts Trish and accepts her help, she rejects using people she can't trust, like Hogarth, and she doesn't let her personal feelings about Kilgrave cloud her judgement of what needs to be done. Each of those ideas are illustrated by those three subplots. Sure you could have the main plot without them, but it wouldn't really be the same story, because we wouldn't have the same context, as viewers, for Jessica's choices.
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Nov 28, 2015 18:59
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The divorce plot is fine, but it didn't need to repeat the same two points/scenes over and over. "Hogarth, I know we had scene last episode where I wanted 70% of your money, but now I want 71%!" "Jessica, I really need you to get those papers signed!" Once would've been fine. The rest was just padding.
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Nov 28, 2015 19:05
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VagueRant posted:The divorce plot is fine, but it didn't need to repeat the same two points/scenes over and over. Yeah I'm not claiming the dialogue was perfect. I would still rather have those scenes than not, though.
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Nov 28, 2015 19:42
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Snak posted:I understand this point of view, but I totally disagree with it. Not every piece of the narrative needs to advance the plot. A story is made of both events and characters, and the inclusion of subplots that do not advance the main plot can still advance the story by providing context for the main characters. Yes, but the issue is that when people are mentally re-cutting scenes in their head for what they think would better tighten the narrative, those are the scenes they're most likely to go to. Killgrave stuff is probably where the cuts should come, since there's enough of it and we more than get that he's a monster. But that's not what most people are going to point to when they notice that the series is 2-3 episodes longer than it needed to be. There was a lot of restating that Jeryn was a total prick and Wendy was vindictively demanding an unreasonable amount in the divorce out of pain. The big problem with Robyn is that she is both fairly unlikable and is the driving force behind one of the dumbest actions in the series. She's supposed to be there pulling Malcolm back from leaving and giving up on helping people, but she offers very little to counteract the pure causticity of the character. You need to do more than just toss out twins, pisces, yin-yang to get the audience to care.
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Nov 28, 2015 20:11
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If you are constantly recutting scenes in your head rather than taking time to absorb and appreciate the whole art first, that might be the problem. The issue is that people make up their mind what the show is about. There seem to be a lot of people who decided that the show was about Jessica hunting down Kilgrave and stopping him. Their opinions of what things should be cut are based on this premise. If even agree that that would be a good way to tighten up the series if that was the point of the story. But since I don't believe it is, since from my perspective it's a story more about human nature itself, these "more cuttable scenes" feel like important parts of the narrative. And it's fine if not everyone feels that way. For me, Jessica Jones provided everything that I thought was missing from Daredevil. The cuts that are being suggested would have given it a lot of the same flaws as Daredevil, in my opinion. I mean, I'll just through this out there: Sense8 was one of my favorite shows of the year, so anyone who thought that it was boring pretension garbage can just stop listening to my opinions right now. It was not a perfect show either, but it strongly prioritized the human element of its characters over the importance of the plot, and I really liked that. That's what I liked about Jessica Jones. The best episodes of Daredevil were also like this.
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Nov 28, 2015 20:24
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Gyges posted:The big problem with Robyn is that she is both fairly unlikable and is the driving force behind one of the dumbest actions in the series. She's supposed to be there pulling Malcolm back from leaving and giving up on helping people, but she offers very little to counteract the pure causticity of the character. You need to do more than just toss out twins, pisces, yin-yang to get the audience to care. And when he died I was a little like "oh, that was his entire character and now I'm meant to be sad?" I guess every one of their scenes managed to be offbeat and unpredictable but it just threw me every time. The scene with Malcolm and Robyn putting up missing posters should have been heartbreaking but her general weirdness just left me as confused and unemotional as every other scene she was in. It was like she was taken from another show, another genre. (Also oh my god, Hogarth's first name was actually Jeryn? I thought it was Jeri the entire time and that people were just typoing it.)
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Nov 28, 2015 20:35
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I think she's just supposed to be a human being. I think that we aren't really meant to be sad about Ruben, but we are supposed to be sympathetic to Robyn and Jessica's sadness over his death. I thought the point of them was kind of "even weird, annoying, abrasive people are still just people". We shouldn't wish ill of them or cast them aside because they are different or annoy us. Jessica avoid's Robyn's pain because it makes her uncomfortable. It makes Malcolm uncomfortable too, but he works past that and tries to help her heal.
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Nov 28, 2015 20:44
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Ended up binge-watching the hell out of this. Really liked it. Kilgrave was amazingly creepy. I thought most of the characters were pretty good. I forgot Luke was supposed to be getting his own series eventually, looking forward to that. I hope he punches through a wall every episode. I liked that even though they kept capturing/confronting Kilgrave only for him to escape, it managed to stay believable for me. Also all the Kilgrave rules-lawyering stuff was great. And whenever he was forcing someone to be completely honest and ended up hearing something he didn't like. The humour was quite good when it happened, never really felt forced. "Hey, rear end in a top hat" is still making me laugh. I need to start watching Daredevil again I think. Liked the first couple of episodes but I just stopped watching for some reason.
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Nov 28, 2015 21:02
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McDragon posted:
This is funny to me because, having watched DD 3 times now, I feel like the first few episodes are a slog. It doesn't actually get moving until the villain is introduced. edit: Also I think it's basically established that Marvel Netflix series like to use childhood flashbacks to help establish their characters. I worked well in Daredevil, it worked find in Jessica Jones, it's basically required for Iron Fist. I bet that the Luke Cage series will also use them well. Hopefully Defenders doesn't ruin it by having a flashback to when they all met as children. edit: And made a playground pact to defend Hell's Kitchen from bullies. Snak fucked around with this message at 21:15 on Nov 28, 2015 |
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Nov 28, 2015 21:11
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Snak posted:I think she's just supposed to be a human being. I think that we aren't really meant to be sad about Ruben, but we are supposed to be sympathetic to Robyn and Jessica's sadness over his death. I thought the point of them was kind of "even weird, annoying, abrasive people are still just people". We shouldn't wish ill of them or cast them aside because they are different or annoy us. Jessica avoid's Robyn's pain because it makes her uncomfortable. It makes Malcolm uncomfortable too, but he works past that and tries to help her heal. Yes,her breakdown over her brother's death was a gutpunch for me. Before that I was all, " lol I hope this annoying Bitch gets kilgraved" After that, I was forcibly reminded that this was another human being and petty revenge can have long ranging consequences. I felt terrible.
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Nov 28, 2015 21:19
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Snak posted:Hopefully Defenders doesn't ruin it by having a flashback to when they all met as children. Using their IGH granted superpowers made them all forget they grew up in the same orphanage.
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Nov 28, 2015 21:28
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Soonmot posted:Yes,her breakdown over her brother's death was a gutpunch for me. Before that I was all, " lol I hope this annoying Bitch gets kilgraved" I'm glad I'm not the only one. It's why I liked Wendy's scenes even though they were textually simplistic and repedetive. Wendy came across as someone who was generally a very good person. She's a doctor who does charity work. But she's been emotionally hurt. And it hurt her so much that she just wants to hurt back. She knows it doesn't accomplish anything, but she sees no other outlet for the way she feels. The rock in the center of her life has betrayed her and she has nothing. She lets her pain consume her and it doesn't help anyone, least of all her. Also, concerning the twins, their relationship is interesting in the sense that it portrays an abuser who does love their victim. Robyn is emotionally, and possibly physically, abusive towards Ruben, (oh my god I just realized they are twins named Robyn and Ruben. holy poo poo) but it's because she's an abrasive and impulsive person. This does not excuse her behavior, but it is a reminder that not all abusive relationships come from selfish or malicious abusers. They can also come from ignorance and frustration. Again, this isn't an excuse, but it's a reminder that domestic abuse cannot be stamped out with persecution of abusers alone, but that people, as a society, must be educated how treat others. Empathy is the big theme with this show. That's why the villain is incapable of it.
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Nov 28, 2015 21:36
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Snak posted:Also, concerning the twins, their relationship is interesting in the sense that it portrays an abuser who does love their victim. Robyn is emotionally, and possibly physically, abusive towards Ruben, (oh my god I just realized they are twins named Robyn and Ruben. holy poo poo) but it's because she's an abrasive and impulsive person. This does not excuse her behavior, but it is a reminder that not all abusive relationships come from selfish or malicious abusers. They can also come from ignorance and frustration. Again, this isn't an excuse, but it's a reminder that domestic abuse cannot be stamped out with persecution of abusers alone, but that people, as a society, must be educated how treat others.
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Nov 28, 2015 21:56
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AtraMorS posted:Am I the only one that sees them as co-dependents? Oh I think they are/were. It doesn't mean that Robyn treated Ruben well all the time though. We know she yelled at him a lot and likes to externalize blame by placing it on others. I don't think I'm being inaccurate when I say her behavior could be considered emotionally abusive.
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Nov 28, 2015 22:04
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They were but that doesn't exclude her being abusive. Robyn and Ruben were clearly both mentally ill in some way.
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Nov 28, 2015 22:05
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Snak posted:Oh I think they are/were. It doesn't mean that Robyn treated Ruben well all the time though. We know she yelled at him a lot and likes to externalize blame by placing it on others. I don't think I'm being inaccurate when I say her behavior could be considered emotionally abusive.
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Nov 28, 2015 22:19
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Snak posted:the whole art
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Nov 28, 2015 23:35
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Yes, but regardless of taste, a multimedia project is still technically art. You can't just say "well it's a plot-driven procedural but it has a bunch of scenes that don't advance the plot so it's a bad show". You have to look at what something is, rather than what you want it to be. Jessica Jones is, among other things, and examination of human nature. You don't have to call it good art, but equivocation on the term "art" is pretty loving pointless. edit: Should I be forced to come up with another term, like "multimedia collaboration between writers, artists, and actors, to convey ideas and emotions through a narrative structure". Would be a "more correct" term for you?
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Nov 28, 2015 23:46
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"Art" doesn't really mean anything and arguments about the definition involving a dude with a penis avatar are probably a waste of time.
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Nov 28, 2015 23:50
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Yeah I know. I really didn't even want to use the word in my earlier post, since I knew it was loaded, but I just wanted to get on to my actual point.
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Nov 28, 2015 23:52
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I finished the series the other day. I liked it, although I'm still forming my opinion somewhat. I'd say it's less "fun" to watch than Daredevil, if only for the fact that Daredevil had better (and more) fight scenes. I do kinda have to agree that JJ drags a LOT, and it takes a good while to feel like it gets started. I dunno, my opinion of Daredevil changed on a rewatch, so I'll have to do that for JJ. Also how the hell is Claire Temple still employed?
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Nov 29, 2015 00:21
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Camel Pimp posted:I finished the series the other day. I liked it, although I'm still forming my opinion somewhat. I'd say it's less "fun" to watch than Daredevil, if only for the fact that Daredevil had better (and more) fight scenes. I do kinda have to agree that JJ drags a LOT, and it takes a good while to feel like it gets started. I dunno, my opinion of Daredevil changed on a rewatch, so I'll have to do that for JJ. Why wouldn't she be? From what we see in DD, her boss likes her...
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Nov 29, 2015 00:26
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Camel Pimp posted:Also how the hell is Claire Temple still employed? Well to drag real life into it for a moment, there is a chronic nurse shortage in the USA so unless Claire is drunk and abusing drugs while on duty, she'll be tough to dislodge.
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Nov 29, 2015 00:31
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Yeah I imagine as long as she shows up occasionally she's fine.
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Nov 29, 2015 00:38
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The Sharmat posted:"Art" doesn't really mean anything and arguments about the definition involving a dude with a penis avatar are probably a waste of time. even my avatar is toxicly masculine 
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Nov 29, 2015 00:55
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So that's what the soothing vapors are from.
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Nov 29, 2015 01:00
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Andrew_1985 posted:Do we know what Luke Cage stories they're going to adapt for his season? Has JJ done well enough to warrant a second season? Will we see these guys in the MCU? We just saw JJ for 13 episodes of MCU content.
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Nov 29, 2015 02:54
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I just want to say that threads like this are great despite goony goon arguments because I miss cool things like Simpson being Shithead Captain America and Hogarth being non-magic Killgrave. Also who's paying for therapy for watching this. Also Punisher is being a villain in DD? I saw that movie.
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Nov 29, 2015 03:47
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Kraps posted:Also Punisher is being a villain in DD? I saw that movie. Even better it's jon bernthal of walking dead fame
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Nov 29, 2015 03:56
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Kraps posted:Also Punisher is being a villain in DD? I saw that movie. that explains the questions about therapy
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Nov 29, 2015 04:19
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etalian posted:Even better it's jon bernthal of walking dead fame Wow, nice. The abrupt ending of Kilgrave makes sense I just wish Jessica had suplexed him and caved his head in, that would have been more viscerally satisfying. Also the whole thing about killing him, I love Batman but he has even less reason than Jessica (getting justice for his victims) or Daredevil (religion) to not kill the Joker, and nobody argues about that anymore. Kraps fucked around with this message at 04:41 on Nov 29, 2015 |
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Nov 29, 2015 04:24
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This thread is getting pedantic about stupid poo poo. Seeya for S02 marathon
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Nov 29, 2015 05:26
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etalian posted:Even better it's jon bernthal of walking dead fame I prefer to imagine the Punisher just as his character from the Wolf of Wall Street and he is impossible to take seriously.
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Nov 29, 2015 06:05
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Kraps posted:The abrupt ending of Kilgrave makes sense I just wish Jessica had suplexed him and caved his head in, that would have been more viscerally satisfying. But yeah, that whole final showdown felt pretty flat, after all the Kilgrave stuff prior had been SO goddamn gripping.
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Nov 29, 2015 09:23
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She lifted him by his chin. He was incapable of speech. He knew he was helpless and he was going to die.
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Nov 29, 2015 09:58
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