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KakerMix posted:I can't really imagine the writers in Bethesda going 'lets aim for middle of the road and start with expending a ton of effort on making voice PC characters' but hey maybe Todd Hitler Howard really is just the worst and that is exactly what they did. It seems a lot more likely that they wrote out the main plot and sort of ignored the open world nature of the game that undercuts the forced '~my baby~' because they had a story they wanted to tell. Nobody intentionally wants to make something lame or middling besides Vanilla Ice. I can imagine it, every single person that cares about the two series plays it the exact same way (ignore the main story, dick around for 200 hours) and it's dumb to imagine that is just the fans 'getting one over" on those dumb dumbs that keep doing the same ultra successful formula totally randomly by mistake. Where they really MEANT us all to be super into the main story and not be able to tear ourselves away from getting to the thrilling conclusion.
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Nov 30, 2015 20:24
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Tenzarin posted:Skyrim, You are the DRAGON BORN god. In Skyrim and Morrowind you don't start out that way, it's revealed later in the story (even slightly so, but still) where as Fallout 4 actually starts with you and your significant other exchanging quips about the night ahead and how cute each other are. Then after that, baby. Owlofcreamcheese posted:I can imagine it, every single person that cares about the two series plays it the exact same way (ignore the main story, dick around for 200 hours) and it's dumb to imagine that is just the fans 'getting one over" on those dumb dumbs that keep doing the same ultra successful formula totally randomly by mistake. People aren't nearly as aware of themselves as you are assuming. KakerMix fucked around with this message at 20:28 on Nov 30, 2015 |
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Nov 30, 2015 20:25
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Or maybe if a thing has been a part of a series all along maybe the people who have deemed it huge game destroying problems are incorrect and it's actually design people like or are not impacted by. Look at how mad you are.
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Nov 30, 2015 20:26
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MisterBibs posted:Sorry, from a few pages back:
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Nov 30, 2015 20:26
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I found a rocket launcher with +50% damage to humans. I tested it out on some gunners. All the limbs 
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Nov 30, 2015 20:28
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^^^^ FYI, all shop legendary weapons are static. Everybody else found it at KLEO's shop as well.Strudel Man posted:The easiest way is just to quicksave and quickload. Allows them to be pleased again. 
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Nov 30, 2015 20:28
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is Cannibalism efficient in FO4? in New Vegas the long animation ruined it.
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Nov 30, 2015 20:28
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Iceshade posted:I found a rocket launcher with +50% damage to humans. I tested it out on some gunners. All the limbs I'll trade you for my Fat Man with bonus damage to Mirelurks 
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Nov 30, 2015 20:30
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coyo7e posted:^^^^ FYI, all shop legendary weapons are static. Everybody else found it at KLEO's shop as well. Pah, the nerve of some people! I found this thing off a raider, thank you very much. I have not met this KLEO yet.
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Nov 30, 2015 20:31
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Zephyrine posted:is Cannibalism efficient in FO4? in New Vegas the long animation ruined it.
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Nov 30, 2015 20:32
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Zephyrine posted:I'll trade you for my Fat Man with bonus damage to Mirelurks You can do things in lots of orders but if you are early on in the minute man quests that might be a super useful weapon.
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Nov 30, 2015 20:32
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coyo7e posted:The fact that you find it out later is not immaterial, it's the entire point of the argument about why the story was badly handled in this one. Was the story of the other games that much different?
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Nov 30, 2015 20:32
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I picked up a missile launcher with +50% damage to super mutants. It's pretty hilarious 1-shotting Behemoths from a mile away. The Heavy Weapons perk upgrades its damage, too, so it does some ridiculous amount that nothing so far seems to survive. This is on Survival difficulty, too.
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Nov 30, 2015 20:34
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The Cheshire Cat posted:This is something a lot of people didn't know about the previous fallout games but you can do it in fo4 as well - Son of a bitch. I have over 120 hours into this game and never even realized.
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Nov 30, 2015 20:37
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if you click on the title at the top of an inventory list you can filter it by type.
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Preechr posted:Son of a bitch. I have over 120 hours into this game and never even realized. You can also do this when trading with followers, shops, workbench, etc. So you can filter your inventory and theirs to find what you need.
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Nov 30, 2015 20:40
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coyo7e posted:The fact that you find it out later is not immaterial, it's the entire point of the argument about why the story was badly handled in this one. It's almost as if the first thing (that you finding out who you are being in the beginning or the middle is entirely immaterial) completely undercuts the second thing (that the story was supposedly handled badly because you find out who you are in the beginning)! If your argument hinges on something immaterial, re-examine. Hell, if anything you should be thankful that the game tells you upfront, rather than make you realize what's going on later on. Or even worse, having to wait for the next game to find out what you really did and having to go back to play that path. Preechr posted:Son of a bitch. I have over 120 hours into this game and never even realized. As the dude said, that's been a thing since Fallout 3. To be fair, sometimes the little < and > don't show up, but for the most part they do. MisterBibs fucked around with this message at 20:43 on Nov 30, 2015 |
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Nov 30, 2015 20:41
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Tenzarin posted:Was the story of the other games that much different? No, they all told you straight up who you were and what you were doing, and even imparted a greater sense of urgency on you in the case of the first game with an actual time limit. They're comparing Fallout to TES games mostly because there isn't a meaty argument to be had when you compare Fallout to Fallout.
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Nov 30, 2015 20:46
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Zephyrine posted:is Cannibalism efficient in FO4? in New Vegas the long animation ruined it. It takes a bit. It's more annoying that you can't use it in power armor. 
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Nov 30, 2015 20:47
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Iceshade posted:I found a rocket launcher with +50% damage to humans. I tested it out on some gunners. All the limbs I made the fabled double shot mirv fat man. Took it to diamond city market and watched the bodies go flying. I think I win at fallout.
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Nov 30, 2015 20:48
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Naramyth posted:It takes a bit. It's more annoying that you can't use it in power armor. It's also annoying that you can't get the Lover's Embrace perk in power armor. Don't kink shame Bethesda 
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Nov 30, 2015 20:50
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Magmarashi posted:No, they all told you straight up who you were and what you were doing, and even imparted a greater sense of urgency on you in the case of the first game with an actual time limit. They're comparing Fallout to TES games mostly because there isn't a meaty argument to be had when you compare Fallout to Fallout. Fallout 2 also had additional cutscenes that would pop up to remind you to do the main quest.
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Nov 30, 2015 20:50
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RBA Starblade posted:Fallout 2 also had additional cutscenes that would pop up to remind you to do the main quest. Someone needs to mod in a force ghost of your spouse looking on disappointingly whenever you complete a sidequest
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Nov 30, 2015 20:53
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Ak Gara posted:Is true unarmed still better than weapons like knuckle dusters, like in FO3? True unarmed, when high enough level let you knock opponents the gently caress out. I'm not talking about paralyzing palm either. I have no idea actually! Haven't tried true unarmed yet, I'm pretty sure my SPECIAL build would make it so I'm doing comparatively poo poo for damage. But I may give it a try, see if I can KO any of my settlers or something.
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Nov 30, 2015 20:53
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RBA Starblade posted:Fallout 2 also had additional cutscenes that would pop up to remind you to do the main quest. Fallout 1 had them too, complete with not just one but TWO "You took to long!" Game Over cutscenes depending on which Game Over timer runs out!
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Nov 30, 2015 20:56
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Does the sneak attack bonus apply only to the target you aimed at? If I sneak attack with say... a fat man, is it doing 4x damage to everyone in the blast radius?
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Nov 30, 2015 20:58
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Magmarashi posted:No, they all told you straight up who you were and what you were doing, and even imparted a greater sense of urgency on you in the case of the first game with an actual time limit. They're comparing Fallout to TES games mostly because there isn't a meaty argument to be had when you compare Fallout to Fallout. I found it more annoying that lock picking and hacking took a backseat as they are completely unneeded in the game.
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Nov 30, 2015 21:00
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Being told/learning you're the Dragonborn and the Neravavrarine are much easier to gel with and much more flexible really on a "This is your character" level than "This is your wife/husband, YOU LOVE HER/HIM. This is your son, YOU LOVE HIM. OH poo poo IT'S GOING DOWN." and maybe it makes me some autistic golem but despite how much the game really wants me to, I don't care a lot about the family they gave me like five minutes with. Plus I don't remember anywhere near as much dialogue or it was just much less annoying, about being either of those, compared to the heaps of "MY SON! WHERE IS MY SON?" which yes I know you can ignore but there's some conversations where basically every option really does come to that.
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Nov 30, 2015 21:01
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Akion posted:Does the sneak attack bonus apply only to the target you aimed at? If I sneak attack with say... a fat man, is it doing 4x damage to everyone in the blast radius? They'll notice you before the missile or grenade or mini nukes hits.
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Nov 30, 2015 21:04
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I figured we were comparing TES with Fallout since the folks who made the former are now designing and defining the latter, for what it's worth. i am tim! posted:Fallout 1 had them too, complete with not just one but TWO "You took to long!" Game Over cutscenes depending on which Game Over timer runs out! Don't forget that if you did something to expand the first time limit, it silently (iirc) reduced the time limit for the second one. Congrats, your Vault has another 100 days of water, but now you've told the Super Mutant army where it is! And while I'm on the topic, but F2 had an alternate 'ending' if you literally dicked around for 11 years or something, since the limit was hard-coded. (there's also an alternative 'ending' for Fallout 4. Try and explore too much of Pre-War Sanctuary and China gets impatient.) MisterBibs fucked around with this message at 21:08 on Nov 30, 2015 |
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Nov 30, 2015 21:05
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Son of Thunderbeast posted:I have no idea actually! Haven't tried true unarmed yet, I'm pretty sure my SPECIAL build would make it so I'm doing comparatively poo poo for damage. But I may give it a try, see if I can KO any of my settlers or something. Specifically, a normal punch had a low % of knocking them out for a few seconds, and a heavy punch had a much higher % of knocking them out, and it would be for several minutes. Unrelated but Deathclaws were really easy to kill once you realized their leap forward animation can be easily side stepped. I'ma go find a Deathclaw and see if they still do it!
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Nov 30, 2015 21:06
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Yardbomb posted:Being told/learning you're the Dragonborn and the Neravavrarine are much easier to gel with and much more flexible really on a "This is your character" level than "This is your wife/husband, YOU LOVE HER/HIM. This is your son, YOU LOVE HIM. OH poo poo IT'S GOING DOWN." and maybe it makes me some autistic golem but despite how much the game really wants me to, I don't care a lot about the family they gave me like five minutes with. I can identify with caring about another human being enough to murder your way across the wasteland to find them, because I am a human being and I do care deeply about those important to me, more than I can identify with being SUPERNATURAL FORCE'S ONE CHOSEN CHAMPION.
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Nov 30, 2015 21:07
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Yardbomb posted:Being told/learning you're the Dragonborn and the Neravavrarine are much easier to gel with and much more flexible really on a "This is your character" level than "This is your wife/husband, YOU LOVE HER/HIM. This is your son, YOU LOVE HIM. OH poo poo IT'S GOING DOWN." and maybe it makes me some autistic golem but despite how much the game really wants me to, I don't care a lot about the family they gave me like five minutes with. Why not just not click on any of the "where is my son" dialog if you don't want to say it? Like is your requirement both that you not say it AND the game gives no option to say it? Because you can play the whole game minus like maybe 3 conversations never ever mentioning your son to anyone and having it just be unused options you never said.
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Nov 30, 2015 21:07
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Preechr posted:Son of a bitch. I have over 120 hours into this game and never even realized. How is that even possible when you've also played Oblivion, Skyrim, and FNV?
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Nov 30, 2015 21:10
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Just wait 2 months and someone will mod out all the baby dialogue and replace Shaun with Dick Dastardly.
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Nov 30, 2015 21:10
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Iceshade posted:Just wait 2 months and someone will mod out all the baby dialogue and replace Shaun with Dick Dastardly. Kellogg breaks into the vault and steals your beanie baby collection
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Nov 30, 2015 21:11
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Azhais posted:Kellogg breaks into the vault and steals your beanie baby collection Nuclear fallout happens, you flee from you goon den with your beloved doritos. Invited to the vault because you are mlg pro at dota.
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Nov 30, 2015 21:12
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Azhais posted:Kellogg breaks into the vault and steals your beanie baby collection That motherfucker. Now that's a goddamn emotional connection from the start right there.
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Nov 30, 2015 21:12
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Yardbomb posted:Being told/learning you're the Dragonborn and the Neravavrarine are much easier to gel with and much more flexible really on a "This is your character" level than "This is your wife/husband, YOU LOVE HER/HIM. This is your son, YOU LOVE HIM. OH poo poo IT'S GOING DOWN." and maybe it makes me some autistic golem but despite how much the game really wants me to, I don't care a lot about the family they gave me like five minutes with. Yeah, being told you're some destined hero in a way that is completely disconnected from your character's background is easier to swallow. It doesn't matter who your character was before coming to Skyrim--they're the Dragonborn not because of what they've done, but by virtue of their birth, and that birth could be literally anything. The only thing that's set in stone is that at some point you were arrested (like every Elder Scrolls game), but it's up to you how that happened. When it comes to feeling a connection with the family, I think it comes down to how video games are structured. Players are naturally going to feel more connection with characters they actually spend time with as the game goes on. Players care about Ellie in The Last of Us because you spend most of the game with her, watching her and Joel bond, and eventually even play as her for a chapter. For perhaps a more pertinent example from the same game, players care about Joel's daughter from the prologue because, again, you actually play as her, and also because she's written with a lot of personality. You have a very short time with her but her interactions with Joel are vivid enough that the game manages to make many players care anyway. Shaun, by contrast, is an infant, so he can't be characterized. And your spouse is bland and generic. They only get a few lines before they're killed and none of them are more than "we sure are married, huh?" and "I hope my family can be safe in this vault!" I understand that they didn't want the prologue to drag on subsequent playthroughs, but they could've maybe used the Memory Den to offer optional flashback sequences where you can retroactively determine your relationship with your spouse and how you felt about having a child. That alone would be enough to get me a little more invested, I think. The Shadowrun Returns games do a great job of this, by letting you retroactively build your character's backstory and relationships through dialog choices throughout the game, and that's cool. Owlofcreamcheese posted:Why not just not click on any of the "where is my son" dialog if you don't want to say it? Like is your requirement both that you not say it AND the game gives no option to say it? Because you can play the whole game minus like maybe 3 conversations never ever mentioning your son to anyone and having it just be unused options you never said. Because there are only four choices, and in a lot of cases, the only choice that isn't "I want revenge for my spouse" or "I need to find my son" is something sociopathic. There's no way around the fact that your family and the fact that your character cares about their family is built into the entire main storyline. That, in and of itself, is not the problem that I have. Just like how I feel about Dragon Age 2, if they want to tell a more personal story in a Fallout game, I'm all for it. The problem is that the game does extremely little to make the player care while simultaneously hanging the entire story around the assumption that the player cares. The problem (for me) isn't that they tried to tell a personal story: it's that they didn't do so well.
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Nov 30, 2015 21:12
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Tenzarin posted:Was the story of the other games that much different?
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Nov 30, 2015 21:16
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coyo7e posted:Yes, because they don't fill in all the bullshit backstory and unnecessary emotional baggage. They're essentially just like the Elder Scrolls games in that you wake up, are given a reason to go outside of your home, and then poo poo happens and you probably forget what you were doing the first time through and everybody dies of thirst because you forgot about water chips oops Nuclear fallout happens, you flee from your goon den with your beloved doritos. Invited to the vault because you are mlg pro at dota.
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Nov 30, 2015 21:18
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