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I can see Tomm as scum and would vote him. However I still don't like Ecco's whole "I'm not claiming but nobody has counterclaimed me" stance. I also don't like her really bad code. So CPig, if Ecco isn't scum then who is?
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Dec 3, 2015 19:39
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| # ? Apr 28, 2024 09:19 |
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I am claiming that I killed keane. I am not claiming anything else about my role since it will not relevant and also not something scum need to know (but they would sure want to know) (TMM sure seems to want to know) I was hoping in vain someone would take the "I can't crack it!" bait so we'd have dueling claims today but alas in retrospect that wasn't a reasonable desire since scum aren't that dumb probably. the code wasn't bad it's actually good - AFAIK nobody cracked it and it's also very simple and easily proven. I think what TMM is doing is flipping out that he lost a scumbuddy and is desperately trying to "throw shade" on me in the hopes that something sticks (i gave him opportunities and he's mostly taken them). imo he's scum! why don't people think he's scum? is the case on tommunist totally unrelated to him?
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Dec 3, 2015 21:09
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EccoRaven posted:I killed Keane over him though because honestly I think it wouldn't be too difficult to get a vote going against TMM, because regardless of his alignment he tends to put his foot in his mouth and talk himself into a noose EccoRaven posted:imo he's scum! why don't people think he's scum? is the case on tommunist totally unrelated to him? Can you show/tell me what about his posts in this game are different from how he usually acts regardless of his alignment?
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Dec 3, 2015 21:24
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TMMadman posted:
Probably tomm ##vote tomm Also ecco isnt scum stop being a dumb
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Dec 3, 2015 23:19
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Murmur Twin posted:Can you show/tell me what about his posts in this game are different from how he usually acts regardless of his alignment? TMM is hard because he is so abrasive in all his games, but in this one it feels very forced - like he's putting in the air of being his usual self rather than it happening genuinely. His going really hard on Keane out of nowhere - especially in light of Keane's flip - felt fake as heck, and his flip asap onto chic did likewise. I didn't like how he supported the Jake vote. I know you don't like me bringing it up since I was AFK but I think you'll find my feelings on survivors is very consistent over games and shouldnt be surprising, and I don't see how anyone can reasonably disagree and say voting survivors is a good choice over scum. I think his play against me today has been super opportunistic; sometimes people case me and I get a feeling they genuinely think I'm scum, but TMM seems more like someone who *wants to seem* like he genuinely but cares way more about how he appears than what he actually believes. I have a good feeling about it. Why do you feel differently? Also thread update my knee is still a little janky from my accident yesterday (see the disc. thread) so Im gonna skip volleyball today and go to bed early.
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Dec 3, 2015 23:22
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TMM came out and slammed a vote down on Ecco without much (anything?) to say about her d1, and is curiously not seeking the least bit interested in asii. What's up with that?
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Dec 3, 2015 23:37
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I ask because TMM doesn't usually just let things go and move on to someone else so flippantly. It's strange
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Dec 3, 2015 23:38
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EccoRaven posted:you know very well I have a new job. Tuesday nights (among other nights) require my active attention from the mid-afternoon to late at night - I didn't get home until around three hours after the deadline. I didn't have the time to even check the thread, let alone read posts and coordinate my vote (all on my phone). I think you bringing this up as a point against me is really lovely because it's unfair and not at all an indicator of alignment either way. I didn't mean for it to be taken so badly. The only reason I brought up this point is because when you mentioned you wouldn't be around it was in a very carefree manner. I guess I figured you'd read more invested, say even apologetic, as a town player. I'll discount it entirely and sorry about that, I know real life is still paramount and you having a job is great news. I just got caught up in making the case. EccoRaven posted:100 Years of Attitude I am wondering: do you think I didn't kill keane? Because, surprise, I did! I shot him dead, and he flipped scum. I had my reasons (and you admit in this post they're "reasonable and honest"), and I had reasons for not wanting to kill Kash or TMM instead (because while I also thought they were scummy, the former because of Asiina's case verbalizing my gut, the latter for reasons I've explained already, I figured it'd be easier to just vote them out, rather than keane who I didn't see getting voted out without some effort). You tonally read as reasonable and honest here, doesn't mean you necessarily are being reasonable/honest. And no, at that point I seriously did not think you had killed Keane and felt you were just lying about it. I'm less sure of that since there hasn't been a counter-claim but I did say earlier that I was hoping the vigilante wasn't countering only because they still had a few shots left in them, and there's always a chance of that being the case. Your code does show some foresight but it could just as easily be a false breadcrumb. Still it's less cut-and-dry as before. I have no issue moving my vote back to ##vote tommunist.
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Dec 4, 2015 00:37
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you people are impossible to please. "hey scum died how cool" "I did it." "gently caress you!!!"
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Dec 4, 2015 01:10
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Semi claiming isn't really necessary, scum isn't going to target you again if you're pgo and they'll be gunning if you're not. Might as well shed some light for the rest of us
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Dec 4, 2015 01:13
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if scum kill me they kill me, the information about my role I'm withholding is not important for the town to know until it is. taste how do you feel about TMM?
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Dec 4, 2015 01:17
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Tremendous Taste posted:Semi claiming isn't really necessary, scum isn't going to target you again if you're pgo and they'll be gunning if you're not. Might as well shed some light for the rest of us EccoRaven posted:
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Dec 4, 2015 01:20
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Ignore that post
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Dec 4, 2015 01:24
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That bring ecco's not mine
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Dec 4, 2015 01:25
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Kashuno posted:TMM came out and slammed a vote down on Ecco without much (anything?) to say about her d1, and is curiously not seeking the least bit interested in asii. What's up with that? Kashuno posted:I ask because TMM doesn't usually just let things go and move on to someone else so flippantly. It's strange I've already answered this here: TMMadman posted:I think one of the people on the Kash vote is scum. TMMadman posted:Mafia edit - Also, it's hard to go after Chic when she has been replaced by Asiina, so obviously I can't ask Asiina why Chic did what she did yesterday. Frankly, I'm getting a little suspicious of you Kash. You haven't really made a single read or case at all this game and instead just hop other cases.
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Dec 4, 2015 01:55
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I think it's just that so far this game my reads and the majority reads seem to intertwine. It happens on occasion, although I don't get the tomm case worth poo poo and think 100 is probably scum
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Dec 4, 2015 02:00
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And actually just looked at vote count to see tomm is the clear vote leader so  I don't see the scumminess from tomm other people are. I'll lynch him to avoid a no lunch but otherwise eh
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Dec 4, 2015 02:02
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EccoRaven posted:if scum kill me they kill me, the information about my role I'm withholding is not important for the town to know until it is. I actually think this post is kind of bullshit. I feel like if you are town, you shouldn't be saying that information isn't important for town to know until it is and instead you should be saying that you don't want to give out more information because it might help scum.
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Dec 4, 2015 02:08
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Although I do find it amusing that Ecco continues to try to get people to vote for me because I will have fun watching the reaction when I flip exactly what I said I will flip.
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Dec 4, 2015 02:10
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I'm not really reading the game so I don't have strong opinions but I think it's understandable why people aren't quick to accept the claim. I buy it, but that's because it's the simplest explanation
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Dec 4, 2015 02:13
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Tremendous Taste posted:I'm not really reading the game so I don't have strong opinions but I think it's understandable why people aren't quick to accept the claim. I buy it, but that's because it's the simplest explanation Well I think it would be a lot easier to accept the claim if there had also been a scum kill during the night. As it stands, all we have is a scum player dead and another person saying 'Hey, I did it' and when she gets questioned about her role, she decides to play coy about it with the reasoning of 'town doesn't need to know until it does' instead of 'I don't want to give scum information'. I also find it slightly interesting that even though Ecco has said that some of Keane's posts have bothered her, she hasn't pointed any of them out, especially this one: CCKeane posted:Can you link the game? You'd think that post would be the very first thing that Ecco would point at and simply say "I knew he was lying right here".
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Dec 4, 2015 08:04
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Barring some especially damning night action information on some other day, I will never vote for Ecco in this game.
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Dec 4, 2015 08:27
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Kashuno posted:And actually just looked at vote count to see tomm is the clear vote leader so Do you get the cases? I think they explain how trains of thought pretty clearly. My case is based on his vote on you on D1, that came out after he explained why he was more suspicious of CPig. It was an odd move that didn't make sense contextually. That plus that later today he just says he doesn't find you scummy but if he can't find anyone else to vote for (implying he hasn't really looked) he may just vote Kash again. He's both not really looking for scum and it seems like he's letting his vote be led about what I'm assuming are scum-mates. He also had 1 (one) small interaction with Keane involving Keane riffing off of him. They otherwise fully ignore each other. It's nothing too notable, but I think it's pertinent Keane made an effort to point him out at least once while ignoring really most of the other players.
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Dec 4, 2015 10:03
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EccoRaven posted:who wants to take credit for killing Keane?? speak up you're confirmed town probably. Why the probably here? Just a speech mannerism or slip?
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Dec 4, 2015 10:29
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TMMadman posted:##vote Keane So Keane and TMM's little spat at the beginning can be read as scum just messing around. Heck go ahead and call it a gambit to draw in a 3rd party as it did to Chic. Were that the case it does feel like all too much effort considering it puts them both out in the open. I don't think that's what Keane was going for. Ecco notes his coyness in his interactions with him and Keane promptly checks out only to reinforce his vote on JakeP. There's little of the usual Keane presence of jokes and messing around. It could be he was just busy, because Keane jokes around as scum or town, but I do feel that keeping quiet fits in more with overall scum play. Which is why it'd be weird for TMM to make himself such a target so early on. Note we have our lurkers in this game and no one pays attention to them as usually does, I feel scum always profit from keeping quiet. TMMadman posted:Generally speaking I am an aggressive player, but I do not believe I was being aggressive towards keane. Here are my posts before Chic chimed in as well as Chics first couple of responses. Another point of Ecco's is that TMM feels forced and fabricated. Posts like these (and there are more later on) do sound way too self-conscious. In light of this I can see how TMM's heavy handedness is in fact exaggerated and puts him out unintentionally specifically because it's not natural. It's also notable for me that TMM is incredibly OMGUS. He goes after Chic after all she does is tell him to chill out and outside of his Jake P vote has latched onto Ecco. His reasons to vote Chic were all around pretty awful though it was D1 and there's usually little to go on. His insistence on the voting JakeP can be read as scummy if you consider how executing 3P is unhelpful to town. And perhaps more damning is how he beats that horse dead, but doesn't bother at all looking at other cases unless prompted, claiming he prefers his Chic case over anything else. He absolutely does use the survivor vote as a smokescreen to avoid having to make any other scum hunting effort. TMMadman posted:OK that's an unusual night result. I was actually going to look hard at Keane today too. With all that stubbornness this post seems to come out of nowhere and is contradictory. This happens again after getting on Ecco's case hard, he also starts saying that he'd like not to turbo him. It's out of line with his JakeP attitude who it seemed he was perfectly fine turboing. Of course that led us to this mess of a post: TMMadman posted:I feel much the same way, but I actually am going to urge someone to remove their vote for the moment because other people haven't checked in. If, by some miracle, Ecco is town then I'd really hate to give scum an easy turbo for the day. I can get the sentiment, since people will blame you for absolutely anything in this game, but the fact that it's so incredibly self-aware makes me wonder why you are self-censoring? If anything you should feel free to act in whichever way you want.
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Dec 4, 2015 10:36
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All this to say, I do see how a narrative can be made against TMM. There's some quite odd posts and actions that he takes that substantiate the claim of being fake and he hasn't actually cased anyone outside of OMGUS votes and a smokescreen of a survivor. There's even a link with Keane that can read as scummy. I still like Tommunist vote better because I feel it's a bit more grounded but I could vote TMM.
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Dec 4, 2015 10:39
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Your cases are decent 100, which I like as it gives me more to analyze. Still, I feel like you're tossing other ideas out there without really solidifying your current vote. This Tomm vs TMM situation I think is a great example of that; your case on Tomm is pretty small in comparison to your case on TMM as if to try and get people to look at both of them and split the vote. It makes me think you're trying to push attention elsewhere while muddying things for town. ##vote 100
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Dec 4, 2015 14:24
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As an addendum; this is speculation on future days but, were 100 to be lynched and flip scum, it would be me more reason to check Tomm.
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Dec 4, 2015 14:25
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Kashuno posted:Your cases are decent 100, which I like as it gives me more to analyze. Still, I feel like you're tossing other ideas out there without really solidifying your current vote. This Tomm vs TMM situation I think is a great example of that; your case on Tomm is pretty small in comparison to your case on TMM as if to try and get people to look at both of them and split the vote. That's not my intent. My case on TMM is longer but there's also a lot more to work with there. The reason I feel stronger about the case with Tomm is really because I feel you have to look at TMM with the idea that he's scum. You have to be a bit biased against him to see the narrative especially pertaining to idea of him being fake and of any relationship he may have had with Keane. Those posts can just as well be read as neutral. The real hits against him are the lack of scum hunting and his solid stubbornness on voting JakeP (and lack thereof with his other 2 cases), which regardless if it was good or bad for town was very clearly a smokescreen. Tommunist may have a shorter history and thus shorter list of reasons to be guilty, but there is a larger ratio of scummy material in there and I think the footing is a lot more solid.
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Dec 4, 2015 15:08
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I am incredibly amused at the cases made against me because in the end they are going to have to explain why they ignored me:TMMadman posted:Here, I'll make this easy since I'm not under any real pressure, this is my claim: Now I know, everyone is going to be like "Well, you could be lying", but the fact is that that post is 100% pure, unvarnished truth. So frankly, if I get voted out, I think town should be really suspicious of the people actually putting in effort to case me. I would definitely vote 100Yrs for making that big of an effort post but in the end it's just a big old hedge.
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Dec 4, 2015 15:11
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Vanilla town is not a claim that means anything. At all.
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Dec 4, 2015 15:12
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Kashuno posted:Vanilla town is not a claim that means anything. At all. Then vote me out, but remember you are going to have to explain why you decided to ignore me.
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Dec 4, 2015 15:15
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Especially considering that I'm not inflating my claim. I am telling you a simple truth and you are choosing to not believe it. I claimed vanilla town on D1 when I wasn't under any real pressure. Why would I bother to do that as scum? It's not like vanilla town is a role that needs to be protected, so I wasn't looking to be protected at night and it's not a role that will save me from being lynched. So again, why would I even bother to claim at that point if I am not exactly who I said I am?
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Dec 4, 2015 15:19
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I'm not even voting you~
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Dec 4, 2015 15:21
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Although yes, you did claim under no pressure which is, frankly, bizarre for town or scum.
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Dec 4, 2015 15:22
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TMMadman posted:I am incredibly amused at the cases made against me because in the end they are going to have to explain why they ignored me: TMMadman posted:But that plays into meta argument in that TMM knows his own meta and thus could be willing to play with that meta.  100YrsofAttitude posted:I still like Tommunist vote better because I feel it's a bit more grounded but I could vote TMM. I am free for much of today so I know it's somewhere in your post history but please relink it and I will critique it. 100YrsofAttitude posted:Why the probably here? Just a speech mannerism or slip? probably.
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Dec 4, 2015 15:28
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Kashuno posted:Although yes, you did claim under no pressure which is, frankly, bizarre for town or scum. I did it for a few reasons: 1) To hopefully stop town from focusing on me. I know I always draw a lot of attention and can be an easy vote. By putting my claim out there early and without being under pressure, I want town to understand that I'm telling the truth and look for actual scum. 2) If I am successful in getting town to understand that I'm telling the truth, I hoping to put a thorn in the side of scum and draw a NK because I won't be lynched. If scum have to waste a night killing me, it's night they aren't trying to kill a town power role. 3) Sharing information is the only way town wins. I have shared my information, it's now up to town to choose to believe in it. #3 is always why I still don't like Eccos 'claim' because she says town doesn't need to know information until it does, but I don't believe that is the case.
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Dec 4, 2015 15:40
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Kashuno posted:Your cases are decent 100, which I like as it gives me more to analyze. Still, I feel like you're tossing other ideas out there without really solidifying your current vote. This Tomm vs TMM situation I think is a great example of that; your case on Tomm is pretty small in comparison to your case on TMM as if to try and get people to look at both of them and split the vote. It makes me think you're trying to push attention elsewhere while muddying things for town. You might wanna check vote counts to findout why the tomm case is so small
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Dec 4, 2015 15:40
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TMMadman posted:I did it for a few reasons: this is a garbage post. towns win by finding scum. telling the town information about roles helps the scum, too. if you really are vanilla then you're not a cop or a doctor so the scum are probably not going to nightkill you, defeating the main role vanilla towns play in a setup (absorbing kills meant for power roles). if you are scum (you are), this gives you an easy excuse for why you will never be nightkilled no matter how right or wrong your cases are. the best way to get the town to think you're town is by playing like a townie. making a claim early in day 1 is not the way to do that. at best, you're a lazy townie who doesn't want to put effort in this game. at worst you're scum who is trying to play on your meta as if your claim is sacrosanct and "how dare anyone disagree."
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Dec 4, 2015 15:50
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| # ? Apr 28, 2024 09:19 |
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TMMadman posted:I am incredibly amused at the cases made against me because in the end they are going to have to explain why they ignored me: Obv. town would be suspicious of people trying to get you killed if you're town. That's like the whole process of this game? Why are you stating the obvious? Also it's not a big hedge. I'm allowed to view multiple players as suspect. Considering there's more than one scum nothing wrong in having a preferred vote over another, wouldn't you say? Also you OMGUS'ing yet again. I make a case so now you'd vote me. Are you capable of looking towards any other player than the ones that accuse you? You cannot assume that everyone that suspects you is scum the ratio wouldn't even be possible. TMMadman posted:Then vote me out, but remember you are going to have to explain why you decided to ignore me. Because you could be lying and in light of a lot of other scummy behavior that would be reason that makes the most sense? TMMadman posted:I did it for a few reasons: 1) Who do you want to look for scum the other town players or you? Because you genuinely have not done the latter. 2) Have a bit of self-respect and don't be so naive to think just because you claim town we are to believe you are honest-to-goodness confirmed town. If you are town, play like town instead of being all weird and bristling at any supposed suspicion. Actions speak a whole lot louder than words in this game. It's the only reason why I have to concede to Ecco's claim because he has not in fact been counter claimed, and as Taste said that is the simplest answer.
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Dec 4, 2015 15:54
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