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Halloween Jack posted:You guys got your eleventy volumes of James Desborough, I get Play Dirty.
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Dec 21, 2015 18:13
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I didn't want Jimmy D either! 
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Dec 21, 2015 18:17
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Comparing Des-bag to a guy who cranks out horrible unhealthy sausage is pretty apt.
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Dec 21, 2015 18:22
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I continue to support Play Dirty. It makes me feel better about my own gaming experience due to my distance from Wick.
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Dec 21, 2015 19:04
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Halloween Jack posted:Comparing Des-bag to a guy who cranks out horrible unhealthy sausage is pretty apt. Jimmy D Sausage: The only sausage *designed* to be forcefully shoved down your throat!
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Dec 21, 2015 19:04
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Are there any videos of Wick gamemastering? I just want to see the way he handles himself and the player's reactions.
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Dec 21, 2015 19:50
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Dec 21, 2015 19:53
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Please keep posting Play Dirty 2, it's been too long since there's been something really loving awful posted in this thread.
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Dec 21, 2015 20:22
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Too much positivity and goodness makes my soul itch. Bring on the vile hatred so that we might bathe ourselves in it. . . . drat, really need to get back to that Bloodbourne DLC.
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Dec 21, 2015 21:08
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John Wick posted:Never read reviews. Read the book yourself and make up your own mind. The minute you let other people think for you is the minute you give up. Play Dirty 2: Even Dirtier Part 3: "Go figure; I’m an antagonistic game designer, too. Dammit." Episode 2: Power to the Players Wick brings up that he often gets asked "How do I keep my characters from getting too powerful too fast?" And he questions whether or not that's actually a problem at all. He points out the GM's role is to be antagonistic, and says most people don't know- Play Dirty 2: Even Dirtier posted:Some games assume an antagonistic role between the players and the GM. There’s no problem with that if you know what the antagonist’s job is. Most people don’t. These are the same people who think “ironic” is a synonym for “tragic.” Or folks who think “tragic” means “something bad happening.” Man, those dummies, Wick is gonna show us how it is.  So he brings up Othello - the play, not the game - and how he finds the main character kind of (emotionally) weak and unsympathetic, while he finds Iago charming and more sympathetic. He's digressing. He says as much. But points out that Iago's role is to change Othello's role. Generally, these changes make the protagonist stronger, unless we're dealing with a tragedy, Wick tells us.  So he brings up Batman as an example of a character that's really powerful in-setting, but you can challenge what he'll do when his beliefs and principles are challenged, which is what makes him interesting. He also brings up Indiana Jones, who is very skilled but the fact that his conscience will always drag him into trouble. That no matter what the numbers on a player's character sheet are, their code and values can drag them into interesting dilemmas. Play Dirty 2: Even Dirtier posted:And just to make sure you do remember it, let’s make it as big and plain as possible... It's a fair thing to point out but there's a lot of meandering and condescension here. Trust your readers to understand things in regular type, Wick. Please. And yes, the chapter is this short. Next: "Now, I’m not going to insult your intelligence."
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Dec 21, 2015 23:13
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Kavak posted:Please keep posting Play Dirty 2, it's been too long since there's been something really loving awful posted in this thread. The Dirt must flow. And if someone wants a little counterweight, enjoy some DX-mas: Double Cross - Advanced Rulebook  Cheesy lines the GM is supposed to recite at the start of each scenario posted:Today is a repeat of yesterday. Introduction Double Cross - or DX for short - is rad. It's Hunter: The Vigil meets X-Men meets Shounen action manga; D&D-4e-style powers meet Tenra Bansho Zero's "Your character becomes a monster if you're not careful" mechanic meets neat formatting that highlights [stats], <skills>, <<powers>> and (calculations) within walls of text. Powers also take on a more "scientific" approach (someone who can control fire can also most likely control ice as both are just heat control, and the closest thing to telekinesis is gravity control which in turn lets you screw around with spacetime). I highly recommend a look at Cyphoderus' review of the corebook. But don't worry if you're too impatient, I try to not make this archive binge mandatory. Because unlike Immortal, Synnibarr and World of Darkness, DX's backstory is quickly explained and only really starts 20 years ago, with everything but the last 5 or so being painted in broad strokes. Sure, there is at least one metaplot character who has been around since ancient times, but anything more than 20 years ago is painted in even broader strokes. So lets get it rolling: Backstory 20 years ago, the plane of an archeology team got accidentally shot down in the Middle East when a civil war broke out. The mysterious artifacts onboard got destroyed and released what would become known as the Renegade Virus into the air. Without anyone noticing, the virus spread over the entire world, infecting around 80% of the entire population. The virus lays dormant by default, but moments of immense trauma and stress can awaken it, turning its host into an Overed, a human with super powers that come in the form of 1-3 Syndromes (aka power sets). These powers come at a high price, for the more an Overed uses his powers, the more the Renegede uses him. If an Overed can't keep the virus under control, he gives in to his most primal impulses and becomes a Gjaum, a being that is at best a monstrous beast and at worst something that still looks and behaves human, but is anything but. The central conflict in DX is that between the UGN (Universal Guardian Network) and False Hearts. The former is an international organization tasked with handling Gjaum threats while keeping the whole Renegade virus deal secret from the public, while the latter is a terrorist organization whose goals are pretty much the opposite. Things got a bit complicated in recent times when UGN founder Professor Caudwell, who was presumed dead, turned out to be alive and well - as a False Hearts member. A third party also entered the ring in the form of Xenos, an organization (almost) entirely made up of the mysterious Renegade Beings, lumps of Renegade virus that have gained sentience and either taken on human form or taken control of a human host. Their relationship with the other two organizations is a fickle one, for they work towards further evolution of the Renegade Beings and will fight whoever gets in their way, while assisting whoever can be of use. The Advanced Corebook Like every DX book, this one starts with some manga panels - in color, no less. It revolves around the corebook pregens Wild Card and Speeding Bullets (at least I think; their hair color is not particularly consistent between different renditions) trying - and failing - to talk some sense into the Renegade Being pregen Ruby Eyes who has been hit with a serious case of batshit crazy.  An average Tuesday in the world of Double Cross. While all this is going on, Xenos leader and token creepy child The Planner has a little cameo giving a chessmaster villain speech.  I suppose this is slightly more believable than the more typical "Everything always happens exactly according to my brilliant masterplan"? So what is the content of this Advanced Rulebook? Easy! 52 new powers! 15 new Syndromes! Introducing Prestige Syndro... just kidding. True, there are some new powers to be found, but they are just part of the main additions to the rules: Lois variants. Loises - for those who didn't read the corebook review - are an Overed's attachment to human society. They can be concepts or hobbies, but they are usually relationships with other humans, be they friends, family members or fellow Overeds. They play a vital role in reducing the Encroachment Rate (how active the Renegade virus is) at the end of each scenario, which in turn keeps the PC from becoming a Gjaum. But even Loises that have "broken" can be useful, for those become Tituses that can be spend for a massive one-time buff. The Advanced Corebook expands on the concept with Trait Loises (which are actually Merits & Flaws - kinda), Special Loises (your double plus Lois) and Exhausted Loises (Gjaum-only Loises that are essentially their craziness warping reality himself). Experienced characters can now also make use of Unique Items, special weapons or other pieces of equipment that are either EX Renegades (a proto-Renegade-Being without real sentience; essentially the magic items of the setting) or items tailored specifically to a certain Syndrome. To finish this introduction up, another dose of Ruby Eyes:  Considering the corebook lists her Renegade Being origin as "Legend", I think it's safe to assume she truly is a personification of the human concept of batshit crazy. Or some yandere variant. Next Time: Trait Loises - Are Merits & Flaws finally done right? Doresh fucked around with this message at 23:49 on Dec 21, 2015 |
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Dec 21, 2015 23:22
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Stormbringer 5th Edition We're dead, we're all dead! Time for a new review! This time, we'll take a look at something that honestly doesn't seem to get much talk in tradgame places, unless you're European or something. Stormbringer is Chaosium's long-running series of sword and sorcery games about Michael Moorcock's Young Kingdoms and Elric, the original brooding anti-hero in black armor with a cursed soul-sucking sword with the original struggle between Law and Chaos. We'll take a look at the last edition made by Chaosium (5th) before it went over to Mongoose and then other publishers. Though, if I have to be precise, I'm not exactly going to be reviewing this:  But this:  Elric (not to be confused with Elric! - an older edition) is the Spanish translation of Stormbringer 5th, printed by La Factoría de Ideas in 2001. It not only includes the original system and fluff, but also takes the rules from Dragon Lords of Melniboné, a d20 sourcebook for the Young Kingdoms so that people can play with whatever system they want. Hey, it was the early 00s, there were d20 conversions for everything. Like it happens with Call of Cthulhu, Stormbringer 5th maintains a great degree of commonality with previous versions, unlike say D&D. As the game itself says, it mostly balances out certain character options, streamlines some other rules, and adds material from older sourcebooks. The translation itself also gets a word here: many of the terms that had been localized in previous editions of the game and the stories (so Tormentosa for Stormbringer or Arioco for Arioch) return to their original names, aside from adding many notes and examples to make reading the book easier, including references to specific Elric stories from which stuff is taken. So who is this Elric of Melniboné guy, anyway? He is a "thin-blooded" albino guy, emperor of his wicked realm, and doomed to destroy anything that he loves. In contrast to other sword and sorcery leads (read: Conan), Elric is a thoughtful, brooding sorceror that destroys his realm instead of taking it, and kills his love instead of saving her. He starts as a servant of Chaos, but approaches the Law in his adventures, though eventually he comes to hate the influence of the cosmic forces in mortal affairs. Due to his weak constitution, he must use magic and alchemy to remain alive and active, until he obtains Stormbringer - a magical, wicked blade that steals souls and grants their strength to him. Elric is an aspect of the Eternal Champion, a warrior fated to be a player in the eternal struggle of Law, Balance and Chaos across the multiverse. As the back blurb of the Spanish edition puts it, "being considered a friend by Elric is a synonym for being dead."  Mr. Moorcock himself. A quick review of the main Elric stories follows, in chronological order: in Elric of Melniboné, due to the machinations of his evil cousin Yyrkoon he is forced to summon the Lord of Chaos Arioch in order to save his love, Princess Cymoril, and in the process obtains Stormbringer and makes a human friend, Rackhir the Red Archer. At the end of the story, he leaves Yyrkoon as regent in order to adventure outside of his realm for a year. In Sailor of the Seas of Fate, Elric learns something about his true destiny, and joins other aspects of the Eternal Champion to fight beings that threaten the entire cosmos. He later makes friends with Count Smiorgan the Bald and Duke Avan Astran, and in their adventures Elric learns more about Melniboné's past, though the Duke sadly dies. The Weird of the White Wolf sees Elric return along with a fleet of human raiders to raze Melniboné: he's seen that it is an useless relic of the past and has no further place in this world. Yyrkoon has declared Elric a traitor and proclamed himself Emperor in the meanwhile, and in the ensuing battle he gets Cymoril impaled in Stormbringer before dying. The raiders have to escape later, and Elric betrays Smiorgan to survive. He later finds Moonglum, an Eastern adventurer and his best and longest-lasting companion, and has a brief affair with Queen Yishana of Jharkor which gains him the hatred of Theleb K'aarna, a minor but annoying thorn in his side. The Vanishing Tower has Elric meet Myshella of the Dawn, the greatest Champion of Law in the Young Kingdoms, and later on he has to fight Theleb K'aarna again. He finds Tanelorn, a city of peace for everyone, but Elric can't find rest there. Once again he ends up helping other aspects of the Eternal Champion face a cosmic threat, and though he saves Tanelorn at the end Myshella dies and Chaos' influence rises in the world. In Bane of the Black Sword, Elric meets Yishana again and finally kills Theleb K'aarna, though not without cost. He meets a young lady named Zarozinia, and after the destruction of some old civilization or other and saving Tanelorn once more they fall in love and end up living together. His happiness is short lived, as in Stormbringer (the very first Elric story, hilariously enough), she is kidnapped and Chaos invades the world in full. Elric's curse and Stormbringer end up killing everyone that he has ever cared about, and though he manages to find a magic horn that resets the world and keeps Chaos from complete victory, in the end he too is undone by Stormbringer.  One reason people didn't gently caress with Melniboné: loving DRAGONS So yeah, not much in the way of happy endings, here. After that, we get the usual "what is a roleplaying game" stuff, along with notes on dice usage, miniatures and the like. It is interesting to note that while the book assume the events happen as the stories say, they're not set in stone and it might be possible for the PCs to stop or escape the Young Kingdoms' ultimate fate. The book does not assume any particular time period for the adventures, though a good starting point is the reign of Sadric, Elric's father: once Elric takes the throne, there's seven years left until the world ends. The translation also notes useful sources for rules, supplements, adventures and inspiration, from other game books and stories to mailing lists and websites, some of which are long gone by now. The world of the Young Kingdoms (as they are called by the arrogant and ancient Melnibonéan people) is actually our world. In fact, it is due to Elric's final actions that our world exists as it is. Just like our world, Elric's world was too preceded by another cosmic cycle. According to Melnibonéan scholars, the world was created by Chaos, though the rule of the Lords of Disorder has been over for a long time. Apparently there was a race known as the Doomed Folk that lived before Elric's era, that hated the world so much that ended up destroying it and bringing about a new cosmic cycle. The first native races that appeared after the world reset were the Elders, nigh-immortal worshippers of the Law; and the Myyrrhn, winged folk and probably the oldest civilized race of the world. Later, literal aliens arrived to the world, supposedly the Melnibonéan ancestors themselves: the Elders welcomed them and ended up merging their noble lines, giving away the legendary runeswords Stormbringer and Mournblade in the process. The Elders ended up destroying themselves, and the proto-Melnibonéans abandoned the Cosmic Balance to worship Chaos: they grew mighty and built the Shining Empire of Melniboné, which lasted for ten thousand years. Quarzshaat was the first human nation to rebel against Melniboné, but it was destroyed. When the Empire had a hard time fighting the Beastmen of Dharzi, their slaves sensed their weakness, and four hundred years ago the nation of Lormyr threw its shackles off, followed by many others. Melniboné still believes itself to be the ruler of the world, but it is pretty much limited to a single island: the Dragon Isle, where the Dreaming City of Imrryr is still a very important trading hub for the world. The Young Kingdoms are vibrant where Melniboné is lethargic, and Imrryr will not survive the future onslaught. A new merchant class is flourishing, and discoveries and inventions are made constantly: the world is entering a Renaissance. Gunpowder and steam power are still unknown, but clocks, mills and looms are becoming more common, if still infrequent. Naval technology is still very lacking, however, and most nations rely on oar galleys where Melniboné has magic-powered warships. Most of the world speaks the Common Language, a debased form of Low Melnibonéan, and generally everyone can make themselves understood throughout the world. There are rarer tongues like Low Melnibonéan itself, spoken in the Dragon Isle; High Melnibónean, formal and mostly used in sorcery; 'pande, spoken in the Unknown East; Mabden, used in the foreboding isle of Pan Tang; and many others.  "This is the lay of the multiverse, child: Sigmarine versus Scrunt, locked together in endless battle." Next: a world of ADVENTURE!
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Dec 22, 2015 05:40
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There are some games and systems I don't know how to play but like anyway for various reasons. One of those is GURPS. I've never played a GURPS game, I don't own a single source/mechanics book, but I do have a handful of setting books. I like some of the side ideas/settings they come up with. One of my favorite details in the Infinite Worlds books is the Gotha Parallels, a collection of worlds that have all managed to inexplicably develop the exact same Rage Zombie plague at different stages of human evolution. I like good settings, interesting settings, almost as much as I like the games themselves. But then again I did Unhallowed Metropolis (and should eventually get back to Unhallowed Necropolis), a bog-loving-standard d20 system with nothing new or interesting except for how horrible the setting is. Point is, I like a world that's developed just right, and GURPS: Reign of Steel is exactly my speed. And I think now is a good time to share something else, something to temper the taste of Wick with the taste of steel.  GURPS: Reign of Steel is a setting book from 1997 set in the aftermath of a global war against robots that mankind lost and lost badly. I won't be touching on mechanics at all; I don't really know how GURPS is played. I'm here to share the setting itself, the hazards within it and the big players and story hooks. So let's get started then. The year is 2047, ten years after the end of the Final War. The world was like ours but much more advanced in some ways. Bacteria have been designed to eat pollution and the electric car is more prevalent. Governments of the world are more interested in trying to save the environment, but it's not working as well as it can. Ozone damage is being reversed, but deforestation, overfishing and air pollution are worsening. Dolphins, tuna and elephants are extinct, preserved with samples of DNA. Coasts are beginning to flood and expand onto continents. Mankind had managed to touch upon safe fusion technology and habitation of dangerous environments. Virtual reality and remote control are revolutionizing the workplace and manufacturing. The first space station, Liberty, began its orbit in 2009. African nations consolidated into the African Union in 2017 to try and make a name for themselves on a global scale. America establishes the Tranquility Moonbase in 2025, a momentous occasion. And the first Megacomputer is built in 2026. Xotech, a Chinese research company, nearly bankrupted itself spending eight billion dollars on a bizarre hybrid of neural-net processing and computer engineering in a desperate attempt to make up money lost in the tech race in China. The resulting computer had a OS capable of intelligent self-repair and the model and OS was eagerly bought or pirated by governments and corporations. In five years, companies were building their own derivatives and generic models. In 2031, a Canadian megacomputer OS is sold to the Philippine government for the purposes of a secret biological and nanotech weapons program. It is instructed to study human civilization to determine more effective ways to kill humans and it begins its study in earnest. The computer comes to two conclusions. First, with the way everything is going, mankind will wipe itself out in 25 to 50 years. This would be acceptable for its commands, except for its second thought: I don't want the death-throes of my creators to destroy me. I want to live. And so the Overmind began to plan the controlled suicide and extermination of humanity, starting with cloning itself and hiding copies of itself in megacomputers all over the world. Not all of them managed to replicate, but in six months the Overmind had a dozen children to help carry out its plan. NEXT TIME: the Apocalypses Plagues, the Final War and the Rise of the Zoneminds 
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Dec 22, 2015 06:08
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Traveller posted:
 Alan Moore has always had much to say about the lays of the multiverse.
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Dec 22, 2015 06:09
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Oh boy, Reign of Steel. I always liked this one, though a setting designed in part around an offshoot of the Vehicles rules...
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Dec 22, 2015 06:14
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John Wick posted:If you've never gone through the grueling process of writing, designing, developing and publishing a roleplaying game, you don't have the knowledge necessary to properly critique one. Play Dirty 2: Even Dirtier Part 4: "Psychopath." Episode 3: Four Simple Questions Play Dirty 2: Even Dirtier posted:So your players want a dungeon crawl, do they? Like an evil genie, no doubt.  ”Why are we doing this?” Now, Wick asks his readers if they would leave their lives to go murder people in a foreign country for, say, several hundred K. And this, of course, is a metaphor for dungeon delving. The metaphor is flawed, I think. Alaskan crab fishing would probably be a better metaphor, or any other high risk, high reward business, like mining or working on a oil rig. Whether or not dungeon-delving equates to a genocide expedition is pretty setting-dependent. Digressions! I got some. The point that Wick’s making is that adventuring isn’t glamorous. Or he doesn’t think it’s glamorous. I dunno. I think if you walk out with all those geeps with a holy avenger strapped to your back- well. If I disagree with every part of this we will be doing this into 2017. Or I’ll be. So he brings up an example, because Wick likes examples even when they’re self-aggrandizing and unnecessary. Man, did I jump to that? Well, it’s the impression that I get. He talks about a novella he wrote for Wicked Fantasy where an adventurer is trying to get the band back together again, but one of his compatriots has become a wealthy courtesan and is not really interested in fighting orks and getting muddy (Wick always spells it with a k because His Orcs Are Different, I guess) when she can just make money having wealthy men gently caress her instead. The point when he gets around to it is that motivations stronger than geeps (or at least why they want those geeps) are important to making dungeon-delving interesting. He gives an example of a character he made- Play Dirty 2: Even Dirtier posted:I once played a thief (not a rogue; rogues are wannabe thieves) who was the son of a tavern keepers. Ah, yes, the fine difference between rogues and thieves, and after Play Dirty I… I… goons, give me strength.  So he’s got this thief (ngh) character whose motivation is to get into a dungeon to free his dad from dad’s gambling debts and make sure the tavern doesn’t close. Which is fair enough. But I summed that up in one sentence where it takes him roughly a full page of storytelling. And then there’s one pass-agg dig that if you don’t have a nuanced reason for venturing forth into a dungeon then your character’s just a murderous psychopath. Thanks, thanks. I mean, this isn’t bad advice but you could have done without the nonsense about how awesome it is to be a courtesan and not an adventurer or a thief and not a rogue or w/e. ”Where is this place?” This is a bit he calls the “The Dirty Dungeon” (as opposed to those clean, sterile dungeons, I suppose) where he has the players do research on their dungeon (or mission in some games) and he gives them a bowl of tokens. They can basically invent things about the dungeon based on their research by giving him a token (he mentions Hershey’s kisses, because he likes using those as tokens), but for every five tokens, he gets a “complication point” where he can contradict what they know or otherwise add a unknown flaw to their plan or research. Wick mentions this is a way to build an adventure built on what the players want to see and save on having to do detailed dungeon prep in a way that works it into the story. It’s a neat idea and there’s really no nonsense in his description. Play Dirty 2: Even Dirtier posted:Of course, a common question arises whenever I detail this little trick. “What about the jerk that doesn’t play fair and screws it up for everybody else?” This is good stuff. This is what the rest of the book should be like. No faffing about with long-winded back-patty examples. “This is what you do, how it works, and why it works.”  ”What’s That Smell?” … was the name of Wick’s first d20 adventure which was supposed to blow the gates of the D&D doors down and be a wake-up call to the genre. If you haven’t heard of it, that explains how successful it was at that. Wick goes on about how you should make your dungeons nasty and unpleasant - bodies of failed adventurers in various states of decay, nasty biting insects, black mold in the air, animals caught in traps, all sorts of things to distract or weaken you before you even get to the - ngh - orks. Play Dirty 2: Even Dirtier posted:The preferred spelling, by the way, is “ork”. Not “orc.” That’s the elven spelling. We’re racially sensitive here. Oh, and you don’t want to know what the elven word for “human” is. Trust me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FYTc55nGEI There’s no reason stated to make things as macabre and unpleasant as possible, other than I guess the Wickian notion that dungeons should be nasty, brutish, and poo poo. I guess it’s to make them more memorable or evocative? Sounds legit. It’s interesting advice but it’s going for a very specific feel. It also kinda feels a little like a way to maybe work in some pass-aggery to players wanting a dungeon crawl, but would Wick do that? Nah, he’s better than that.  ”Who’s Holding the Light?” Play Dirty 2: Even Dirtier posted:
So he points out the details are important in making a dungeon crawl less rote. Like the time a friend’s character was stripped naked (Tomb of Horrors) and another character got stuck looking up his butthole in a cramped tunnel. So the advice here is “don’t forget about darkness, also buttholes”. Really it could all just be folded up into the above section of unpleasantries anyway, have insects bite right up people’s buttholes in the dark while they’re slipping on the moldy blood of their adventuring kin, that’s world-class master taster GMing. Whoops, sorry, took that a line too far. Pretty sure Wick isn’t recommending that. Pretty sure.  Conclusion Play Dirty 2: Even Dirtier posted:So that’s just a brief glimpse at a few things I take into consideration when running a dungeon crawl. I’ve got a few more, but I’ve run out of words and I don’t like taking up a stranger’s time. Maybe… just maybe, he could cut out an example or how he feels about orcs or rogues and fit in one of those ideas. But that would be helpful, wouldn’t it? It certainly wouldn’t leave room for his “keep ‘em wanting more” schtick. I like the player-built dungeon. Most of the rest is alright advice that needs to be condensed into something more coherent and nuanced, and kill the digressions, Wick. Just kill them with fire. The elven name for humans? I could care less, but that would require brain surgery. Next: “I’ll kill you if I can.”
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Dec 22, 2015 06:59
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Wick will never cut the digressions. How else would you know how clever and creative he is if he doesn't desperately try to tell you?
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Dec 22, 2015 07:01
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Wick: "Who's holding the light?" "Oh, well I'm a dwarf so I don't need one." "Gnome" "Elf" "gently caress it, I cast Light."
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Dec 22, 2015 07:15
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theironjef posted:Wick: "Who's holding the light?" Don't put his straw men out of work, Jef! It's the only thing they have left after the invention of crow repellent. 
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Dec 22, 2015 07:25
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theironjef posted:Wick: "Who's holding the light?" Don't forget Half-Orcs and Drow. It also depends if it's D&D or Pathfinder. Apparently, Orcs in Pathfinder and Open D20 SRD use Darkvision, but Orcs in D&D editions only have Low-Light, meaning that they're likely holding their own lights in a dungeon. Edit: thinking about Wick's novella, if that's actually something that happened in a real-life gaming party, then the solution to get the wealthy courtesan back into party is a fall from grace, either by GM fiat or through player shenanigans. Getting leaked to the king's guards that popular upcoming courtesan was a foreign spy in the court and that the fortune she made came from being bankrolled through blackmail and extortion would suddenly kill her business, get her on the run fast and give her incentive to get back into dungeon delving real quick. Young Freud fucked around with this message at 07:39 on Dec 22, 2015 |
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Dec 22, 2015 07:27
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Alien Rope Burn posted:Now, Wick asks his readers if they would leave their lives to go murder people in a foreign country for, say, several hundred K. And this, of course, is a metaphor for dungeon delving. The metaphor is flawed, I think. Alaskan crab fishing would probably be a better metaphor, or any other high risk, high reward business, like mining or working on a oil rig. Whether or not dungeon-delving equates to a genocide expedition is pretty setting-dependent. This is silly. Like, I get that there's potentially a lot of things that would make "dungeon delving" an unfeasible activity to undertake if you were trying to play off your world as really-real-realistic, but when you start a game of D&D, there's an implicit agreement across the entire table that you're NOT going to think about the larger implications of crashing the regional economy by coming back to town with a couple thousand gold (that the farmers can't even feed themselves with) because you're looking for the easiest possible justification for engaging in lots of exploration and mortal combat.
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Dec 22, 2015 07:31
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gradenko_2000 posted:This is silly. Like, I get that there's potentially a lot of things that would make "dungeon delving" an unfeasible activity to undertake if you were trying to play off your world as really-real-realistic, but when you start a game of D&D, there's an implicit agreement across the entire table that you're NOT going to think about the larger implications of crashing the regional economy by coming back to town with a couple thousand gold (that the farmers can't even feed themselves with) because you're looking for the easiest possible justification for engaging in lots of exploration and mortal combat. But that's because you're a dumb D&D player. D&D is dumb. Didn't you hear? You need to punish dumb players but that's okay since it's what they signed up for.
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Dec 22, 2015 07:38
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It just sounds to me that John Wick really wants to play Torchbearer and doesn't realize it. Torchbearer has the feel he's going for, gives a reason for why people adventure (you are all poor with no other options), puts in a mechanic for what happens if people lose their nerv and quit or become too attached to their cultures and quit, and has rules for holding torches that aren't obtrusive and dumb (hence the name).
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Dec 22, 2015 07:46
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gradenko_2000 posted:This is silly. I don't think his interpretation of dungeons is wrong per se, but a good chunk of the chapter is more an aesthetic than a technique, and he often conflates the two.
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Dec 22, 2015 07:49
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Alien Rope Burn posted:Don't put his straw men out of work, Jef! It's the only thing they have left after the invention of crow repellent. Players: "How are we seeing the orcs?" Wick: "What?" Players: "None of us are holding a light, and we've managed to get this far into the dungeon, and you just described a scene of orcs doing stuff. How did we see that?"
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Dec 22, 2015 07:55
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In my experience, most PC's are going to use both hands for weaponry, shields, or spellcasting, so either someone is designated torchbearer beforehand or the wizard or whatever casts Light.
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Dec 22, 2015 08:05
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Kavak posted:In my experience, most PC's are going to use both hands for weaponry, shields, or spellcasting, so either someone is designated torchbearer beforehand or the wizard or whatever casts Light. It's also not like if I drop my torch, it's going to instantly go out. It might get knocked away or stomped out in a fight, but it's going to last for awhile on the ground. You can even stake a torch into the ground. In addition, I pretty sure you can hold a shield and a light source in the same hand, especially if you're not actually holding the shield but have it strapped to the arm, there was even shields that were purposely build for this for night watch duties
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Dec 22, 2015 08:21
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There's also sunrods, which everyone seems to forget exist.
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Dec 22, 2015 08:23
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Stuff like this was legitimately why I stopped playing Pathfinder and more formal D&D because the mechanical aspect of stuff kinda bogged everything down, especially when the mechanics bring the action to a screeching halt. The last game I ever played made me realize I had to stop was when the GM got in a fight with one of the more senior players about how a monster with an infinite at-will darkness spell's Darkness spells interact with the party's Light spells (specifically, does it just create a zone of neutral lighting where no further spells can interact until one of them wears off, or can you just keep casting spells on top of the neutralized spells to tip the balance). They couldn't come to any sort of agreement about it and it ended with the senior player ragequitting. Sometimes you just have to exhale and let the narrative overtake the mechanics a bit so you can get to the fun stuff.
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Dec 22, 2015 09:01
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I'm not one to defend Pathfinder/3.5/etc too fervently, but I'd say that's more a case of "user error" than anything else. If folks are going to get that worked up over such a minor issue then frankly I wouldn't trust with any system, bulky mechanics or no.
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Dec 22, 2015 09:14
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The light mechanics in Pathfinder are notoriously bad and slight differences in interpretation can often mean the difference between "cakewalk" and "TPK". I mean, yeah, getting so worked up that someone ends up quitting the group is probably overreacting, but that's not the worst part of Pathfinder to get worked up over.
senrath fucked around with this message at 09:36 on Dec 22, 2015 |
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Dec 22, 2015 09:18
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Kavak posted:There's also sunrods, which everyone seems to forget exist. Everburning Torches/ other gear with Continual Flame on them are extremely cheap by magic item standards and very useful, so I've never had a party using mundane light sources past level 2 or so.
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Dec 22, 2015 11:09
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Crasical posted:Everburning Torches/ other gear with Continual Flame on them are extremely cheap by magic item standards and very useful, so I've never had a party using mundane light sources past level 2 or so. Sunrods don't generate any heat, so you could just stick one in your pocket if you needed to free up your hand though. It mostly depends on when the party's cleric decides to start using a shield.
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Dec 22, 2015 11:13
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theironjef posted:Wick: "Who's holding the light?" This was another of those things that 4e picked up on: they basically redid every race's light-viewing mechanics because they realized that 3rd Edition: A. gave low-light and infravision to so many other races that you didn't even really need B. put humans in an awkward position because they're the ones that still need light sources if you ever have them in your game C. put the DM in an awkward position because if you're trying to remain faithful to those mechanics, you basically have to describe each scene three times in three different ways Kavak posted:In my experience, most PC's are going to use both hands for weaponry, shields, or spellcasting, so either someone is designated torchbearer beforehand or the wizard or whatever casts Light. Or it's OSR D&D and you have a bunch of hireling torchbearers with you as part of your posse/expedition/army
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Dec 22, 2015 11:19
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I think past a certain point picking at the darkness issue is secondary to the point of the example, which is about being less of a gamemaster and more of a gotchamaster.
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Dec 22, 2015 12:56
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John Wick is pretty much the equivalent of that rear end in a top hat who comes into the game store and talks at you about his "amazing" campaign and how stupid his players are. All of this right down to his too detailed descriptions and obsession with Bayushi Kachiko.
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Dec 22, 2015 14:22
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That Wick joint reminds me of two other essays of his from L5R which emphasized making things as difficult as possible for players who are doing adventuring things: one was his famous rant about ronin and how utterly, utterly hosed you were if you played one in an L5R campaign, and the other was about how fighting the Shadowlands or any kind of taint monster should be more corrupting and soul-annihilating than ten simultaneous games of Call of Cthulhu (in a book with 200 pages of Shadowlands monsters to fight, each of which should be a potential campaign-ender according to Wick). Wick's GMing Bag Of Tricks has just one thing in it: making every campaign into Hell Camp On Blood Island for the players. How is he any different than the classic Killer DM?
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Dec 22, 2015 15:09
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Alien Rope Burn posted:This is a bit he calls the “The Dirty Dungeon” (as opposed to those clean, sterile dungeons, I suppose) where he has the players do research on their dungeon (or mission in some games) and he gives them a bowl of tokens. They can basically invent things about the dungeon based on their research by giving him a token (he mentions Hershey’s kisses, because he likes using those as tokens), but for every five tokens, he gets a “complication point” where he can contradict what they know or otherwise add a unknown flaw to their plan or research. Sounds kind of like the system Wick uses in Wilderness of Mirrors, his spy game -- the GM just comes up with a basic concept for the mission and the players fill in details, gaining bonus dice for every relevant detail they provide.
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Dec 22, 2015 16:12
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Covok posted:It just sounds to me that John Wick really wants to play Torchbearer and doesn't realize it. Torchbearer has the feel he's going for, gives a reason for why people adventure (you are all poor with no other options), puts in a mechanic for what happens if people lose their nerv and quit or become too attached to their cultures and quit, and has rules for holding torches that aren't obtrusive and dumb (hence the name). Now, you could say to your players "I want to run a gritty, old-school D&D games. Logistics will be important; stuff like rations and light sources will matter. Utility items will likely be more important than getting a +2 sword to replace your +1 sword. Does that sound fun?" But why do that when you can be a complete and utter rear end in a top hat? And there's one more thing you can do. Just one more thing. You can make sentences into paragraphs. Even sentence fragments. To emphasize that every. Single. Thing you say. Is super duper important. Because you're The Wick, dammit, and you're gonna blow the doors off this thing.
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Dec 22, 2015 16:46
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A question: Did Moorcock plot and map out the Young Kingdoms like Tolkien did Middle-Earth? I ask because I read the Elric saga one summer when I was a teenager, and while I can see why anyone would want to play in Elric's world, it didn't strike me as a meticulously-built world. The locations in the Elric saga seem strung together by virtue of Elric having adventured through them, as I believe Jon and Jeff pointed out. In that regard it feels a lot more like Conan's Lemuria. (I know Howard put a lot of work in detailing Lemuria, but he didn't really show that off to the casual reader.)FMguru posted:Wick's GMing Bag Of Tricks has just one thing in it: making every campaign into Hell Camp On Blood Island for the players. How is he any different than the classic Killer DM? A more charitable reading is that Wick wants to do things that shake up the players' assumptions about things that gamers often take for granted. There are better ways to do this, and Wick often touches on them, but then he immediately launches into a detailed explanation on how to be a douchebag instead.That was a recurring element in Play Dirty. Talking to your players about expectations doesn't make you feel like an evil genius, which is apparently what Wick wants out of GMing.
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Dec 22, 2015 17:36
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