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Hav posted:That's a fairly bold statement. How are they structuring their servers, and how much are the two LOD servers costing you per month? Last time I checked, they didn't have patch servers; and they were not using third-party CDN like Akamai, Edgecast etc. Outside of that, pushing 30GB (!) worth of data with each patch, leads to massive bandwidth costs. Ask any IT person to explain it. LOD doesn't have two servers. It has two server clusters. Each cluster being made up of six servers. Each cluster serves as one cohesive "game server" We don't have bandwidth costs for patches because our entire game is served via Steam, which, via SteamWorks (dev API), is actually a full blown patching system which you feed patch scripts and it intelligently does the rest for clients downloading it.
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Dec 26, 2015 18:46
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DoctorStrangelove posted:How is Lt. Commander higher than Grand Admiral? chris roberts is an idiot, thats how
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Dec 26, 2015 18:46
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This [url=]level of idiocy is unmatched[/url]https://www.reddit.com/r/DerekSmart/comments/3y7xq8/mr_smalls_brags_about_attempted_rsi_hostile_take/cybjkmcquote:Skippy is also it seems trying to bypass his ban by creating alt accounts 15 times and apparently failing lol: Someone needs to send him a smoke signal letting him know that my block count is for the Twitter harassers who I am blocking on sight. As I said before, they're not even trying anymore.
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Dec 26, 2015 18:50
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 https://www.reddit.com/r/DerekSmart/comments/3y7xq8/mr_smalls_brags_about_attempted_rsi_hostile_take/cybvhc2?context=3  https://www.reddit.com/r/DerekSmart/comments/3y7xq8/mr_smalls_brags_about_attempted_rsi_hostile_take/cybthz6
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Dec 26, 2015 18:56
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 this is quickly slipping into Poe territory
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Dec 26, 2015 18:57
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its funny how inconceivable it is to some that Bootcha was actually posting here and was a known investor long before Derek Smart even got involved in this. How deep does the conspiracy go? 
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Dec 26, 2015 19:01
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I can't remember who it was who did the first Sandi succubus pic, but black eyes really do suit her:
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Dec 26, 2015 19:05
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A Neurotic Jew posted:its funny how inconceivable it is to some that Bootcha was actually posting here and was a known investor long before Derek Smart even got involved in this. How deep does the conspiracy go? I think they're currently working on a whole new conspiracy theory now. There should be a new thread popping up as soon as they come up with one. Note that the current conspiracy theory thread involves my "attempted RSI hostile take-over" or better yet these hilarious you-couldn't-make-this-poo poo-up-unless-you-were-high gems quote:Yep - like he said later they would have been able to block him getting access - In fact I am willing to bet he tried to buy in as an investor back when CIG were setting up in 2012. So yeah, they're probably definitely working on it. Two weeks.
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Dec 26, 2015 19:09
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D_Smart posted:Last time I checked, they didn't have patch servers; and they were not using third-party CDN like Akamai, Edgecast etc. Outside of that, pushing 30GB (!) worth of data with each patch, leads to massive bandwidth costs. Ask any IT person to explain it. Here's another question I have been wondering about, with the explosion of low cost indie titles on Steam recently... What does the pricing structure on Steam look like? How do they charge for updates and such?
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Dec 26, 2015 19:10
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Still. going.
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Dec 26, 2015 19:10
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D_Smart posted:Last time I checked, they didn't have patch servers; and they were not using third-party CDN like Akamai, Edgecast etc. Outside of that, pushing 30GB (!) worth of data with each patch, leads to massive bandwidth costs. Ask any IT person to explain it. So, roughly 80,000 people stupidly playing this game = 2,400,000 GB of data per patch. Multiply that by however many patches there have been to date = ??? How much money are we talking about here?
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Dec 26, 2015 19:11
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 https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/3yapkd/people_with_larger_pledges_your_opinion_on_not/cybvdu1
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Dec 26, 2015 19:12
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For patching, why don't they just use torrents and pack it into an .exe file if bandwith is that bad?pftc posted:I made it 15 minutes so far. It only gets worse. We weren't joking when the best parts of that movie are CRoberts giving the thumbs up and the space bulldozer. Also you can tell CRoberts has autism based on what ability the pilgrims had. fuctifino posted:I can't remember who it was who did the first Sandi succubus pic, but black eyes really do suit her: Where we are going, you won't need eyes to see... (Event Horizon is the best WH40k movie)
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Dec 26, 2015 19:14
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D_Smart posted:Last time I checked, they didn't have patch servers; and they were not using third-party CDN like Akamai, Edgecast etc. Outside of that, pushing 30GB (!) worth of data with each patch, leads to massive bandwidth costs. Ask any IT person to explain it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKYQ5ibxslI 5TB costs me $1 these days. 300GB per patch cycle isn't a big deal.
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Dec 26, 2015 19:14
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D_Smart posted:I think they're currently working on a whole new conspiracy theory now. There should be a new thread popping up as soon as they come up with one. It's not a lie if you believe it. - George Costanza
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Dec 26, 2015 19:15
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Samizdata posted:Here's another question I have been wondering about, with the explosion of low cost indie titles on Steam recently... Steam has no rules. You set your price, then push a button alerting them to review it. If they approve it, then it goes live. If they don't, then you have to adjust it. In my experience, they don't reject any pricing at all. And the only way you get a game on Steam, is if they feel that they can make money from it. Just like any publisher. So their cut pretty much factors into their bandwidth costs. It's like how we all regard gaming whales. Some products make more money than others; and their fees which Steam collects, makes up for those games that don't make much money for the service.
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Dec 26, 2015 19:15
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fuctifino posted:So, roughly 80,000 people stupidly playing this game = 2,400,000 GB of data per patch. Multiply that by however many patches there have been to date = ??? [quote] The AWS services have tiered costs for data transfer out ($0.17 per GB for the first 10 TB/month data downloaded, $0.13 per GB for the next 40 TB/month, $0.11 per GB for the next 100 TB/month, and $0.10 per GB for any additional bandwidth beyond 150 TB).[quote] this is assuming they are using aws. they can probably get something cheaper, but lol. other infra goons can tell me how wrong I am.
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Dec 26, 2015 19:17
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D_Smart posted:Last time I checked, they didn't have patch servers; and they were not using third-party CDN like Akamai, Edgecast etc. Outside of that, pushing 30GB (!) worth of data with each patch, leads to massive bandwidth costs. Ask any IT person to explain it. There's a huge difference in scale between a running something on AWS (before you turn your nose up, we have a 40Gb peering link with Amazon and it's been incredibly useful in controlling costs - except for one time when we ended up paying a quarter of a million *over* because of misconfigured routing), running a colo box, running a colocation site, then finally a datacenter. We do all of those. Most people up to the co-location site are paying a 'stock' price for bandwidth; you get an allocation for a set price and get surprise anal for overages, or you have a flat rate. Those pricing strategies then offset the other allocation method, which is _flow_. Flow is charged at bandwidth/sec, depending on the tier one contract and who you peer to. More peering - connecting to other sites - usually gives a higher discount up to a limit, but it also makes you slightly more vulnerable to other people. We lost a shitton of capacity for a couple of hours once because the other end of a peer connection hosed up. Damages and costs become very abstract at that point. What I'm mansplaining to you is that there are multiple pricing structures and agreements at certain levels, and if they were seriously expecting upwards of a half million players, they'd have something at the datacenter level set up with a couple of peers, so bandwidth becomes a drop in the ocean compared with the rest of the datacenter costs. My next step involves getting very drunk and firing up wireshark and nmap to estimate the size of the elephant. Because I don't believe what anyone just _says_.
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Dec 26, 2015 19:17
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 https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/3y99eq/star_citizen_furs/
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Dec 26, 2015 19:19
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fuctifino posted:I can't remember who it was who did the first Sandi succubus pic, but black eyes really do suit her: drat where do I pledge?
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Dec 26, 2015 19:20
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Dec 26, 2015 19:20
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OWLS! posted:
So if they are using aws, it could be around $250k per patch? Maybe this is why Chris announced monthly updates before he went rolling around in the snow.
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Dec 26, 2015 19:21
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OWLS! posted:[quote] The AWS services have tiered costs for data transfer out ($0.17 per GB for the first 10 TB/month data downloaded, $0.13 per GB for the next 40 TB/month, $0.11 per GB for the next 100 TB/month, and $0.10 per GB for any additional bandwidth beyond 150 TB).[quote] It's a much more sensible use of backer funds to spend time in the Whale Lounge than developing a proper update client so they don't blow a quarter of a million USD with each patch.
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Dec 26, 2015 19:21
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MeLKoR posted:
There's a reason why Bootcha won't show his long form birth certificate.
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Dec 26, 2015 19:22
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Dapper Dan posted:
What was he thinking when writing this?
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Dec 26, 2015 19:28
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 https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/3y8rrn/are_star_citizen_and_squadron_42_going_to_be_two/cybtoo5
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Dec 26, 2015 19:32
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Mirificus posted:
Star Citizen: I'm not a large backer ($2600)
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Dec 26, 2015 19:34
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FYI: The patcher isn't actually downloading 30 gigs every time. It's just a really loving bad patcher and goes through all the gigantic zip files on your disk each time and downloads the changed files in them, which is what makes it run so goddamn slow. It still downloads upwards of a gig, and often up to 10gb because apparently this game is in active development with like 250 employees working on it or something and a lot of files have changes between builds.  Meanwhile, a patch is downloaded by what, 50 people? 100? It isn't more than that, and I'm pretty sure CIG can handle a couple TB per year. Also, there are caching services (i.e. cloudflare) that will straight up not charge you for bandwidth, just depending on service level. I'm sure CIG doesn't use these, because they're dumb as gently caress, but hahaha holy poo poo if you think they're paying more than a dollar per TB. Nononono, that'd noticeably eat into CR's coke fund. As a comparison point, I can download just under 50TB per month on my lovely home internet connection, and it costs me 65 euros, and lovely home internet is hilariously expensive compared to what I have access to at work.
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Dec 26, 2015 19:35
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Hav posted:There's a reason why Bootcha won't show his long form birth certificate. I'm shamelessly stealing this.
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Dec 26, 2015 19:37
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pftc posted:What was he thinking when writing this? Only God and Chris Roberts knows. But now imagine this 10 hours with ubskippable cut scenes and videogame dialogue
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Dec 26, 2015 19:43
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 https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/3y7oqq/why_delays_and_setbacks_dont_bother_me/
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Dec 26, 2015 19:45
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Mirificus posted:
Atrocities. 
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Dec 26, 2015 19:47
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Truga posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKYQ5ibxslI Are you somehow confusing data bandwidth with storage? Please show me the ISP that is selling 5TB of bandwidth for $1.
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Dec 26, 2015 19:47
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Hav posted:There's a huge difference in scale between a running something on AWS (before you turn your nose up, we have a 40Gb peering link with Amazon and it's been incredibly useful in controlling costs - except for one time when we ended up paying a quarter of a million *over* because of misconfigured routing), running a colo box, running a colocation site, then finally a datacenter. We do all of those. Not of that has any relevance to my original post. Which I shall quote again. quote:The monthly server costs are phenomenal and there is no way that they can sustain this. Followed by: quote:Last time I checked, they didn't have patch servers; and they were not using third-party CDN like Akamai, Edgecast etc. Outside of that, pushing 30GB (!) worth of data with each patch, leads to massive bandwidth costs. Ask any IT person to explain it. So, we don't know what (ded servers, Akamai, Edgecast, Highwinds, AWS, Google etc) they're using for pushing all the data. But regardless of what they are using, pushing 30GB of data for all clients - with each patch - is still a large cost than pushing small proper binary "patches" which are smaller. fuctifino posted:So if they are using aws, it could be around $250k per patch? Maybe this is why Chris announced monthly updates before he went rolling around in the snow. Which was my point. Regardless of what they're doing, it's costing them BIG to keep pushing that much data with EACH patch. Which also explains why they are now switching to monthly patches. D_Smart fucked around with this message at 19:55 on Dec 26, 2015 |
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Dec 26, 2015 19:53
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Mirificus posted:
Lol
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Dec 26, 2015 19:55
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Truga posted:FYI: The patcher isn't actually downloading 30 gigs every time. It's just a really loving bad patcher and goes through all the gigantic zip files on your disk each time and downloads the changed files in them, which is what makes it run so goddamn slow. Actually it is. I've actually tested and seen it do it. In some cases, they files being downloaded are just new versions. So it doesn't them locally, then uses your PC to reconstruct it. That's why it takes so long even after the download it complete. And when the download is borked, that's why it has to start from scratch - even though it already downloaded ALL the files needed. And when us devs think "patch", we also think in terms of delivery. In which case, smaller is always - better, faster, cheaper. That's why "patching" exists.
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Dec 26, 2015 19:59
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Mirificus posted:
She's recoiling over the internet at these guys. "Oh for god sake stop emailing me, there's only so much hand sanitizer that you can buy with a million dollars!".
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Dec 26, 2015 20:00
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Umm, when did you last test it, because I tested it on 2.0 PTU and it only downloaded the full 30 gigs once. e: And it also wasn't doing the separate downloading/patching phases anymore either. It was just one pass. Truga fucked around with this message at 20:22 on Dec 26, 2015 |
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Dec 26, 2015 20:01
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MeLKoR posted:
Harrison Ford's chin looks like it's going to fall off.
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Dec 26, 2015 20:14
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Crash74 posted:Harrison Ford's chin looks like it's going to fall off. good.
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Dec 26, 2015 20:22
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