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 As our people are heading back to the moon, Reika and Sirius run into each other in the late hours of the night. Neither of them can sleep and, in her case, it’s due to an uneasiness over everything that’s happened and what awaits them at the moon: not REQUIEM, mind, but the truth of the Black History that lies there (she fears it’s something no one should know). As for Sirius, he can’t sleep because of that dream of his, with the rose and the crimson path, etc, etc. He quickly spots Apollo snooping from a corner and Silvia, popping out of somewhere else, complains that it’s because he kept munching on his food. They couldn’t sleep either but Apollo chalks that up to his stomach being empty and figures it’s the same for Silvia, who’s just too proud to admit it. She obviously protests but Apollo’s nose tells him what’s up and he figures she was grabbing a bite when Sirius and Reika came in, prompting her to hide and spy on them. Silvia huffs and calls Sirius to leave but, on the subject of smells, he asks Apollo how he smells like before, as before, quickly recanting the question. He leaves and Reika senses that something’s bothering him but none of this will stop Apollo’s midnight snack.  Back on the moon, we have the intro to ZEUTH’s 52 with Diana’s arrival on REQUIEM and our imminent attack.  Mission 50 (Zaft Route) – I am D.O.M.E….  Also the same as 52.  As before, our people spot REQUIEM ahead but, this time, Meyrin detects 5 minutes before it’s ready to fire and we still need to focus on the two commanding ships to mess with their defense line. Apollo suggests Sirius and Reika take out whatever’s bothering him on these folks while Athrun ponders that neither REQUIEM nor the Colony Laser should’ve existed in the first place – time to take the second one out.  Mission Objective: Shoot down the Alexandria and Girty Lue within 5 turns. Mission failure: Loran, Aquarion or any allied battleship shot down or turn 6 rolls over. Skill Point: Destroy all Federation troops within 3 turns, Bask and Ian last. As before, our people are at max morale so they can easily tear through the Feds. We’ll have enemy reinforcements coming and you’re welcome to maximize your money by engaging but keep a steady pace on the Feds. Ian is worthless but Bask can still handle a pummeling decently enough – go crazy with your SP but keep an eye on EN and ammo for the second half.  Pass some time and Gym and crew pop up, welcoming the Turn X’s brother to the forbidden land of the Moon Race. When Merrybell asks, he tells them to attack both groups as punishment for their trespass – he may have missed the war 15 years ago on Diana’s command but, today, he’s justified in partaking in this battle! Harry and Jamil try convincing him to accept a temporary cease-fire on the argument that countless people will die if we don’t stop REQUIEM but, nope, war is what he wants and he will not take sides other than his own. All he cares about is to charge across the battlefield with the Turn X, fighting to his heart’s content! Corin’s panicking, telling an indignant Loran that he must be stopped lest he bring back the Black History. Gym calls the Turn A to battle and to awaken his power.  Abel is still here: he awakens and dies the same way.  Once shot down, Merrybell figures we’re perfect as opponents for Gym and looks forward to having fun with us again. Harry figures her MS, a model that he’s never seen before, is an excavated mech from one of the moon’s Mountain Cycles.  Shoot down Gym and he talks of how he’s enjoying this far more than the Orb battle… before healing up fully. We don’t have time to waste on him, so Bright tells everyone to focus on the Feds.  Bask and Djibril go down the same, with Scirocco enjoying it so much.  As before, D.O.M.E. stops REQUIEM’s second blast and, when the Revolutionaries arrive, Haman is right with them. Before a three-way battle starts, Diana tells everyone to cut that poo poo out and come inside for THE TRUTH. Gym doesn’t care about that stuff, mind, but Diana says it’s precisely people like him that SHOULD be told about it. In that case, Gym accepts to stand by in the Turn X and watch everything from the cockpit and, this time, Loran offers to stay here and keep an eye on him while Diana’s doing her thing. Gwen, for one, is very much looking forward to all this.  Garrod’s meeting with Tifa and the subsequent start of the convo in D.O.M.E.’s room is still the same, though Scirocco doesn’t take Haman’s sass at him being worse than Durandal when she herself used ZEUTH to destroy the Colony Laser. Everything else is as 52 and Haman still praises Camille for his understanding on Newtypes but, this time, she’s surprised that someone like him grew under Char’s care.  Black History reveal doesn’t change, either. This time, it’s Sirius who sneers at the irony of us coming here to learn the truth and, instead, learning that it’s the outcome of our actions and humanity’s sins. Apollo doesn’t like where he’s getting at but the fact still remains that we’re headed towards the Black History as we speak. The scene goes as before, with Sirius playing the part of Dr. Wily but D.O.M.E. slapping Jamil around will wait for a bit – he turns on the end of the Black History video after telling Zaidel to cut his crap out.  The video scene lasts for just a little bit, as there are those who want to make the contents of this recording a reality again… The base comes under attack and everyone figures Gym’s done waiting and rush back out. Bloodman and Zaidel are crying in a corner and Lancerow tells them off while Tifa (she’ll join as a sub-pilot in the epilogue) asks that Garrod come back safe – they’ve a future to build together.  When Sochie complains that Loran didn’t keep a good eye on Gym, he says the attack came from elsewhere. Yes, it’s the bros and, like before, they blast Zaidel and Bloodman. Gym already likes their pro-war agenda and the bros reveal the Destiny Plan and whatnot. Haman also confirms that Durandal’s going to implement it once the Feds are dealt with and figures he’ll even be happy to hear that Zaidel’s gone. Regardless, she has her own plan – different from ours and Scirocco’s - for how humanity should be led and pulls out. Fast forward, the bros move to destroy REQUIEM with Diana still inside, Loran intervenes (Gym’s about to do the same) and triggers the Moonlight Butterfly. Cue Gym piggybacking on the Turn A’s data to get his own mech going and wrecking Agrippa for trying to get rid of Diana. He leaves and we’re left with an annoyed Sirius and the bros to beat.  Fast forward a few and the Federation arrives, led by Löwen. Scirocco deploys right after but, as before, he’s too busy being smug and scheming to attack us and is still determined to set humanity down the path he wants. He leaves us, fools, to kill each other against the bros and Löwen covers his retreat – Scirocco “thanks” the brothers for their services and, in return, won’t do anything against them today. Shagia asks if he’s planning on letting them loose in order to use them like he did with Djibril and Bask but no: “I hold no such lofty expectations for failures like yourselves, Category-F.”, Scirocco sneers. He runs off, leaving the brothers to rage and us to ponder the danger Scirocco poses – a different kind from Durandal’s but just as threatening to mankind’s future. Löwen calls us out to fight and isn’t fazed that they’ve lost REQUIEM as his everlasting loyalty to Edel has the Chimera’s true ultimate weapon. This is the same as 51.  Löwen has a surprise gift for us, though: Glenn in the Aquarion Alpha. Cue the scene from 48 but with Löwen bragging that they managed to get a hold of the Fallen Angels’ power from a source we know well: Kazami and the research he did on Futaba. He couldn’t study it in depth thanks to our intervention but Löwen promises the Federation will make excellent use of what he sent over. As our people witness the grotesque spectacle, Shagia yells of how humans’ true nature is one that’ll easily abuse others in the interest of self-gain and that’s why, Olba says, this world must be destroyed. Löwen tells the traitors to shut up as their plan puts them at odds with Edel, which makes them targets to be eliminated along with us. He tells Glenn to destroy everyone and all the Aquarion folk can do is try to put a stop to him.  Our people, like in 51 ZEUTH, try to get Löwen to reconsider – this is hardly the time for anyone to try to push their own agenda onto the world – but he’s too Edel-crazy to listen and runs off.  Take out Glenn and things go down like in ZEUTH 48, with Sirius leaving with Touma. The bros are loving this, of course, and Shagia laughs at Sirius despairing over humanity. Apollo asks what the hell they think they know but Olba says they DO know all about the pain that Sirius is feeling and, like it is with them, it won’t go away until everything is ashes. Of course, they mean to make sure we’ll never have a chance to confront Sirius about it. Silvia then tells them to shut up, we get the Aquarion Angel scene and it’s back to work.  Wreck the bros and they run off like in ZEUTH 52. The Elements are pretty bummed out but Apollo tells them to get their stuff together as they now have another job to do. Loran also ponders the revelation that we’re one of the forces that’d bring the Black History about and how the Turn A would destroy the world but he still refuses to allow that to be our future.  Back in D.O.M.E. our people told him of what happened outside and Jamil has his convo with it. Silvia, in turn, asks D.O.M.E. to tap into his Black History archives and give her some explanation over what happened to Sirius but Apollo tells her to stop: “Whatever answer’s in there, it don’t change what we’re gonna do. Ain’t no use breaking your head over this.”, he says. D.O.M.E. agrees and segues into his “the black history is your future, so go change it”, the advent of the Great Power and his and the epilogue from 52. With Haman gone, Char tells D.O.M.E. of how he’ll keep what he said about Newtypes in mind but will look for his own answers – D.O.M.E. approves. Finally, there’s Tifa’s convo to offer her Spirit Commands to Garrod.  Our people will be escorting Diana over the Moon Race’s capital, where she vows to support our struggles from, and she asks that Harry continue to accompany ZEUTH as her soldier and representative of their people. She figures unleashing the truth of the Black History will invite even greater unrest into the world and it’s all the more reason why we must all keep hard at work. She trusts we’ll be responsible with our usage of the Moonlight Butterfly and that it could be a force that’ll allow us to avoid going into the Black History (Gwen says he’ll relay those words to Laura). With that in mind, the only option is to take up arms in order put an end to all the conflict before it all goes to hell and Heizaemon ponders the contradiction of all that. Still, Diana has faith that we’ll pull through so long as we keep that unwavering conviction in our hearts. With the Colony Laser and REQUIEM gone, the battle between the Federation and the Allied Army should cool down for a bit and Holland figures we could use this time to head back to Earth to check on what the demons and OverDevil could be up to – can’t well leave them to their own devices – and, also, Norb wants us to go to the Vodara Shrine. Check the Bazaar after this to grab your G-bits, too.
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Dec 28, 2015 17:46
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Since we hit this point, I've had a question for a while: After Aquarion becomes Aquarion Angel, can it still change forms? Can it turn into a pseudo-Mars and Luna?
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Dec 28, 2015 18:29
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Angel just replaces Mars. Solar and Luna work the same, but with a different legs/back.
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Dec 28, 2015 18:52
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Man, Special Mode was really just "poo poo let's be Santa", just in time for Christmas. Is it fun to stomp on the game like that or does it start to wear a little?
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Dec 29, 2015 05:17
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Okay, I looked up the That One Boss section for this game. I gotta wonder how people can casually beat these hardass bosses with these constraints like "Get boss down to 50% health and kill every mob in 5 turns" for the SR point.
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Dec 31, 2015 04:14
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HR12345 posted:Okay, I looked up the That One Boss section for this game. I gotta wonder how people can casually beat these hardass bosses with these constraints like "Get boss down to 50% health and kill every mob in 5 turns" for the SR point. Spirits make a big difference. And most bosses are in fact not immune to Armor Down and other debuffs. Most bosses in OG1 for instance could be handled with energy draining them to drop their shields. It's just that the Debuffs aren't the greatest in this game, and SRW never REALLY plays with them to the extent it can.
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Dec 31, 2015 04:48
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Onmi posted:Spirits make a big difference. And most bosses are in fact not immune to Armor Down and other debuffs. Most bosses in OG1 for instance could be handled with energy draining them to drop their shields. Counterpoint: OG2. There's that debuff there that basically makes every boss an absolute joke.
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Dec 31, 2015 05:28
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I keep seeing the name ZEUTH involved with the Z series, but how is it pronounced? Zee-Uth or more like Zeus?
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Dec 31, 2015 05:47
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HR12345 posted:I keep seeing the name ZEUTH involved with the Z series, but how is it pronounced? Zee-Uth or more like Zeus? I'd like to say that when people in the sequels (in which you can only rename the new groups and not ZEUTH) say it, they pronounce it "Zay-ooth."
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Dec 31, 2015 05:50
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Spiritus Nox posted:I'd like to say that when people in the sequels (in which you can only rename the new groups and not ZEUTH) say it, they pronounce it "Zay-ooth." That pronunciation makes a lot more sense considering the language of the game; sudden English would be kind of strange.
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Dec 31, 2015 07:02
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HR12345 posted:Okay, I looked up the That One Boss section for this game. I gotta wonder how people can casually beat these hardass bosses with these constraints like "Get boss down to 50% health and kill every mob in 5 turns" for the SR point. That page is for the most part a lot of exaggeration. SRW bosses are by and large a total joke, with the major exceptions being the ones earlier on since by endgame the player's damage output skyrockets to such an insane degree it literally does not matter how much health or whatever barrier the boss is packing. Like, the entry on Z3's final boss? Your average player will kill that doofus in one turn. Maybe two. EDIT: Really, a lot of bosses rely on players not fully understanding their range of options to truly be difficult. If you get Support Attack on everyone, optimize your mechs properly, and read up on whatever tag system of the day the game is using (if it has one), you can walk into just about any fight blind and utterly steamroll them underneath a wave of giant robots. BlitzBlast fucked around with this message at 07:32 on Dec 31, 2015 |
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Dec 31, 2015 07:22
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SRW bosses are just big bags of hitpoints that maybe have a map attack or a status effect or two. It's a major weakness in the games' design.
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Dec 31, 2015 11:18
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WrightOfWay posted:SRW bosses are just big bags of hitpoints that maybe have a map attack or a status effect or two. It's a major weakness in the games' design. It's honestly an SRPG problem I've found. But I've rambled about Boss design in SRPGs already so eh.
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Dec 31, 2015 11:39
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BlitzBlast posted:That page is for the most part a lot of exaggeration. SRW bosses are by and large a total joke, with the major exceptions being the ones earlier on since by endgame the player's damage output skyrockets to such an insane degree it literally does not matter how much health or whatever barrier the boss is packing. Yeah it really is that easy. I took him out entirely in a single turn, thanks to saving all my maximum Breaks for him, even with him healing up after I did about 1/3 of his health. It was not difficult. The games were a bit harder back when you didn't have so many customization options. Like Alpha Gaiden, for example.
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Dec 31, 2015 19:10
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I thought poo poo like that was hard many, many years ago, when I was a child who just picked up OG1, saw the Valsion's barrier, and didn't understand it was a resource management game.
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Dec 31, 2015 19:24
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Onmi posted:It's honestly an SRPG problem I've found. But I've rambled about Boss design in SRPGs already so eh. Others find ways to make things a bit more interesting, though: Fire Emblem has its weapon triangles to prevent any one unit from becoming too powerful (with a few exceptions) and supports, and Spectral Force has its side quests and slightly better character optimization. SRW, by contrast, has...skill points. And instead of trying to keep those interesting, they almost always boil down to "kill things quickly in a certain order." Why not add something else, like base customization, or romance sub-plots you can actually alter, or give the maps some puzzles that need to be solved to beat the boss? SRW has more processing power and memory than what they started with; it can actually do more things now, without sacrificing animations or levels. And yet, the games seem to march on without changing.
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Jan 1, 2016 02:58
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thetruegentleman posted:Others find ways to make things a bit more interesting, though: Fire Emblem has its weapon triangles to prevent any one unit from becoming too powerful (with a few exceptions) and supports, and Spectral Force has its side quests and slightly better character optimization. Yeah but 9/10 FE bosses suck complete balls because they're either A. A joke or B. ridiculously bullshit. Ultimately an SRPG needs to remember that we're here for the varied enemies and terrain and other such nonsense (not so much SRW though) and focusing on that. It is not a final battle filled with nothing but 8 units of the boss you just killed NO SRW OG2 YOUR FINAL STAGE IS NOT FUN IT'S TEDIOUS BULLSHIT.
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Jan 1, 2016 03:11
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Well there's Fantasy Maiden Wars.
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Jan 1, 2016 04:30
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Sadly, skill points were the most interesting in the first game that had them, where you got skill points for stuff like "don't view the tutorial," "don't engage the enemy here," "let this person leave" and "let Bright kill the Yin-Yang Angel with the Reinforce Jr.'s beam ram"  You could also lose them on certain stages by killing everything or making bad decisions otherwise.But at the same time, all the skill points were hidden and I don't think they even announced them when you got them, the counter on the intermission screen just incremented when you got them.
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Jan 1, 2016 05:44
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thetruegentleman posted:Others find ways to make things a bit more interesting, though: Fire Emblem has its weapon triangles to prevent any one unit from becoming too powerful (with a few exceptions) and supports, and Spectral Force has its side quests and slightly better character optimization. SRW J had Puzzle Robo, which was a between stage thing where you had to literally puzzle out how to beat the stage with a pre-defined set of resources. it was interesting. I would love to see some move in the direction of base customization or something. You could say the Z Crystal in Z3.2 is a tiny minuscule step that way. But at the same time it would be hard to do a base. battleship customization beyond existing upgrades maybe.
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Jan 1, 2016 07:56
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Wounded Land posted:Sadly, skill points were the most interesting in the first game that had them, where you got skill points for stuff like "don't view the tutorial," "don't engage the enemy here," "let this person leave" and "let Bright kill the Yin-Yang Angel with the Reinforce Jr.'s beam ram" Technically they were on your main character's stat page as well, but yeah, Alpha is pretty great. Really flawed in some ways (being on certain squares on certain maps makes you always take hits, the defence stat stops existing on the final map), but enjoyable.
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Jan 1, 2016 09:50
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 We open with the same convo between Sirius, Touma and the Fallen Angels from ZEUTH 50. After that, it’s over to Trinity City where Teral and co are being informed of ZEUTH’s return to Earth. Tsukikage says they’ll be converging with the Freeden and Iron Gear before setting out to their next objective. Everyone sends their regards but Kouzuki’s a bit miffed that they couldn’t even stop by to say hello. Arthur has been briefed on how D.O.M.E. revealed the truth of the Black History and that, in turn, has set our sights on a new objective; meanwhile, Jane has heard of Kazami’s betrayal and Quinstein matter-of-factly states that this man who’s discarded scientific ethics in pursuit of power is no longer the peer we knew. Now, he’s Earth’s enemy. It’s a strange parallel, Kouzuki thinks: we’re getting along with Teral and, on the other side, Kazami and the Eldar are teaming up. Regardless, Teral expects Gagarn to intensify his offensive now that he has the professor on his side which means a massive invasion of Earth is likely. Michi sees that this prospect worries Teral and Aphrodia and Jane understands: an all-out invasion would mean many deaths on both sides of the conflict. Tsukikage and Arthur inform Teral of our newfound determination to create a new, better future after D.O.M.E.’s lecture and, thus, they believe the galactic war in Teral’s future will also be averted. The rest of this scene is like ZEUTH’s 50, with them discussing the parallel worlds, Tsukikage and Quinstein’s plan of releasing the two commanders in hopes of them acting as our messengers to the aliens and Teral’s convo with Aphrodia concerning her doubts. Fudou’s absurd “I CAN’T REACH ZEUTH!” scene is omitted and, instead, Quinstein informs that they’ll handle transporting them to the moon and Teral vows to see his task through in the name of peace for Earth and the Universe.  From ZEUTH 48, Dewey explains the Limit of Questions and the Ageha Project to Dominic. Afterwards, our people have given the Earth-bound crew the rundown of everything that happened in space. The follow it up with the scene from 49, concerning Reika’s worry that she could’ve stopped Sirius from running off and how our people don’t really care about petty stuff like “wings” after all the craziness this world’s seen. Reika wants to sever her own misfortune and apologize to Sirius. Follow it up with 48’s scene concerning Norb and Holland explaining about the Vorada Shrine, what we’ll do there and whatnot. Ryouma, while he understands the importance of all this, is worried about what the Hundred Demons and OverDevil could be doing – Cotsett and crew were trying to gather info on their movements during our absence but didn’t find anything significant. Jiron figures everyone’s massing their strength to go for the gold in one move. Rena takes Kazami’s place in explaining how the enemies themselves will be gunning for us since we’re THE group to beat for any would-be world conqueror and how we’re at the crux of the Black History events, as show at the moon. Pierre is all over that idea, eager to deal with all those problems, and Ryouma figures those groups will likely make their move by the Vodara Shrine if they noticed our return to Earth. Jiron’s ready to take on all comers and Rena quickly pulls Apollo over to predict that Sirius will be coming over during the next battle.  Mission 51 (Zaft Route) – The Crimson Path  Our people arrive at the shrine and Gainer doesn’t see anyone living there – from what Norb’s told Holland, all of the Vodarac priesthood set out to travel the world after the first Break. This strikes Kei as odd as the standard is for believers to SEEK their holy land, not leave it behind, but Roger remembers Tiptree, way back in Siberia, saying that all of the Vodarac’s people wanted was to live in accordance to the “flow” of nature. More importantly, Marin has noticed a small distortion in the dimensional walls inside the shrine and Julie figures that’s to be expected from a place said to house a hint towards communicating with the Coralians. We gotta get Renton and Eureka in there to see what that is but Norb sees some uninvited guests coming.  It’s the Ageha squad and they’re not going to let us reach Sakuya easily. Olson notices Chiram troops with them and, like before, it’s the revenge-seeking Henry. As in ZEUTH 48, Dominic launches the Assault Aquarions and our people deploy to intercept. Pierre is riding with Apollo and Reika and that Vector Omega that replaced Mars is working fine (though he’s a bit embarrassed over that Aquarion Angel name). Silvia wanted to be out there with them but Apollo cuts her complaints short as the battle begins. Cue the Jurgens, Anemone and Dominic convo from ZEUTH 48 and Renton/Eureka lead the charge towards the shrine – anything to stop the Black History from becoming a reality.  Mission Objective: Shoot down the Aquarion Alpha Mission Failure: Any allied battleship or Aquarion shot down Skill Point: Clear the map in 5 turns. Not difficult, if you know what’s coming. We’ll have enemy reinforcements behind us, so don’t rush too far ahead. Victory in here hinges simply on destroying set units, so build your morale as needed and, when you’re ready to end things, take out the enemy leaders.  Pass enough time and in come the Hundred Demons, with Hidler very eager to finally get payback on us. Our people aren’t taking his bravado seriously but Glenn is reacting to them: it’s due to the sins of humanity, says Sirius. He shows up with Moroha and we have both his spiel from ZEUTH 50 as well as the demons gloating of their enhanced soldiers from 48. In the end, Sirius deems that humans have no point or right to exist and he and Moroha decide to ignore the demons and Feds in the interest of taking us out first. The demons are all over that but Dominic wants to pull back lest things blow up in their faces. Anemone isn’t having it, though, as that’d risk Dewey thinking that she isn’t useful anymore and Dominic has no choice but to rescind his order and tell their troops to keep fighting ZEUTH. Toshiya isn’t happy that they’re all ganging up on us and Talho tells everyone to focus on the leaders. Sirius yells that mankind will perish within this unending battle they’ve created but Apollo ain’t about to lend his ear to a traitor. Gainer isn’t too keen on fighting the guy but Apollo argues that that’s only another Fallen Angel there.  The mission objective changes to shooting down Hidler and either Sirius, Moroha or Glenn. As before, destroying Moroha will get you one ending point while Glenn will take away one. Plus, if you want the Assault Aquarion, make sure you down the Aquarions Delta and Omega before taking Moroha out.  Take out Moroha and everything from mission 50 plays in one sweep: Glenn wakes up and kamikazes him while Silvia tells Sirius off. With the Assault Aquarions done, Dominic deems it’s too dangerous to continue and orders all troops to pull back – all that’s left now is to deal with the demons.  Wreck Hidler and tells Gura to run and finish his dimensional manipulator. Our people hear this and try to capture the fleeing scientist but Hidler flings his ship against the Gekko in order to hold us back. Those guys having the capacity of manipulating dimensional power paints a grim picture to Ryouma but, from what we can tell, their device isn’t perfected yet. We gotta take them out before it comes to that.  We get little time to think about this as a bevy of Megadeus Archetypes show up all around us. Roger quickly explains of these mechs being found in Paradigm City’s underground and while he doesn’t know what’s up with them, they’re clearly moving to attack us. Our resources are dwindling after the previous battle, so Holland sends Renton, Eureka and Norb into the shrine while we hold the line (Tifa quickly reminds Eureka not to fear change – it’s a natural thing for her, us and the entire world).  Same convo from 48, with Renton, Norb, Eureka and Sakuya. Once the kids make it back outside, Sakuya does her thing but with the Archetypes this time: “Vanguard of the Great Power, asleep within the miniature garden… you may well be just as worthy of pity as the Fallen Angels…”, she says before warping them away. Alan Gabriel takes this opportunity to jump from the shadows and kidnap Dorothy. He quickly introduces himself but our attention is diverted…  The OverDevil enters the area and Alan figures the “monster of the Black History” was also drawn here by the Great Power. As before, Gainer tries rescuing Cynthia and gets absorbed by the thing before it runs off – Alan also escapes, laughing at how we’re, unknowingly, caught in the Great Power’s maelstrom. We’ve now lost two of our own and the question becomes what to do about them.  Gura relates Hidler’s death, how his research is nearly complete, etc. What changes from ZEUTH’s 48, however, is his research’s next step: he’s detected (and confirmed in today’s battle) that one of ZEUTH’s machines is using Dimensional Power. That machine needs to be captured which only makes it more evident to Brai that they’ll need to dispatch us in order to solidify their dominance. He orders all troops on alert and ready to strike at ZEUTH as soon as their fortress island is airborne.  The Assault Aquarion event is largely unchanged but Tsugumi also pitches in her speech from ZEUTH’s 50. After the pilots are assigned their new Vectors, Silvia is no longer moping and stands ready to fight against anyone – even Sirius. Apollo is a taken aback of she tells him not to worry, what with her also being a fully-fledged ZEUTH member. Apollo bounces back and tells her to give everyone a show of her brutish strength come our next fight and she balks that the Getter Team would be so much more supportive to each other. Quietly, Pierre laughs at how clumsy Apollo can be with his words. Still, Reika sees that both Silvia’s and her fighting spirit have been rekindled – whether or not Apollo is the Wings of the Sun, his inner light has managed to touch all of them.
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Jan 1, 2016 16:40
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One thing I learned about the SRW games is this: you need a character spreadsheet showing all the relations each character has to one another from not only the parent shows, but original generation characters as well.
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Jan 2, 2016 01:05
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Don't forget the cross series relationships!
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Jan 2, 2016 17:49
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Dr Pepper posted:Don't forget the cross series relationships! Speaking of which, OG characters never have a romantic interest in characters from non-OG series, or even characters from OG games that aren't from the same original game. That's always kind of bugged me, to be honest, because it's like all the male/female character pairings have some weird, invisible barrier between them that doesn't allow for characters to get too close to each-other; oh, they'll get angry on each-others behalf, but don't expect someone to take a bullet for another, even if they would do so for someone in their own series...
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Jan 3, 2016 02:18
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thetruegentleman posted:Speaking of which, OG characters never have a romantic interest in characters from non-OG series, or even characters from OG games that aren't from the same original game. That's always kind of bugged me, to be honest, because it's like all the male/female character pairings have some weird, invisible barrier between them that doesn't allow for characters to get too close to each-other; oh, they'll get angry on each-others behalf, but don't expect someone to take a bullet for another, even if they would do so for someone in their own series... Well, it's pretty understandable. Even if the stories are being rewritten, character relationships are kind of important, and I can see why they wouldn't attempt to change that. No matter what, Shinn's ending with Luna, even if he's had a good friendship with Setsuko here and Stella is still alive. I don't think it is a bad thing. Friendships are still formed, and very clear and strong ones at times (Rand and Gain in this game comes to mind for OG/not OG, or the trio of Garrod/Renton/Gainer for all not OG), it just won't go beyond that and understandably so.
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Jan 3, 2016 04:17
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thetruegentleman posted:Speaking of which, OG characters never have a romantic interest in characters from non-OG series, or even characters from OG games that aren't from the same original game. That's always kind of bugged me, to be honest, because it's like all the male/female character pairings have some weird, invisible barrier between them that doesn't allow for characters to get too close to each-other; oh, they'll get angry on each-others behalf, but don't expect someone to take a bullet for another, even if they would do so for someone in their own series... ...To be honest I've never really seen SRW focus that much on developing romances. There's some in OG, largely on account of that being in Alpha, but elsewhere it's very rare for that to really be looked at. The only major example that comes to mind is the likes of Aki and Blade in W having a big scene to themselves with shots from the anime and all. Even Rand and Mel here only get a handful of scenes really focused on them as a couple and how that affects things, for the most part she's just a slightly over-affectionate partner. ...I dunno, I guess the format doesn't suit it well. Everyone's still frames with only very very seldom more artistic scenes of them, and in that sense it's hard to really sell people falling in love over people hanging out and sharing a beer, which SRW does do a lot of.
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Jan 4, 2016 02:20
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Gyra_Solune posted:...To be honest I've never really seen SRW focus that much on developing romances. There's some in OG, largely on account of that being in Alpha, but elsewhere it's very rare for that to really be looked at. The only major example that comes to mind is the likes of Aki and Blade in W having a big scene to themselves with shots from the anime and all. Even Rand and Mel here only get a handful of scenes really focused on them as a couple and how that affects things, for the most part she's just a slightly over-affectionate partner. ...I dunno, I guess the format doesn't suit it well. Everyone's still frames with only very very seldom more artistic scenes of them, and in that sense it's hard to really sell people falling in love over people hanging out and sharing a beer, which SRW does do a lot of. It probably doesn't help that Banpresto is really, really bad at writing a romance scene unless it's lifted wholesale from its original anime.
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Jan 4, 2016 04:22
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Materant posted:It probably doesn't help that Banpresto is really, really bad at writing a romance scene unless it's lifted wholesale from its original anime. see i didn't want to say it directly lol
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Jan 4, 2016 05:50
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Considering all these routes between ZAFT and ZEUTH, which one ended up being the canon one in SRW2? I know I've yet to read to that point, even on Rand's side.
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Jan 4, 2016 06:56
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HR12345 posted:Considering all these routes between ZAFT and ZEUTH, which one ended up being the canon one in SRW2? I know I've yet to read to that point, even on Rand's side. ZEUTH, and it's considered that Rand AND Setsuko's story both happened.
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Jan 4, 2016 10:11
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Onmi posted:ZEUTH, and it's considered that Rand AND Setsuko's story both happened. Quite frankly, I'm not sure why they didn't merge the stories after a point since they more or less forgot about the other protagonist roaming around for like half the game. Retconning both into happening is definitely one of the smarter choices Z2 made.
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Jan 4, 2016 11:48
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Looking back, it would have made a lot of sense for Rand to have been a part of the Iron Gear crew in Setsuko's route and Setsuko to have been a part of AEUG in Rand's route, and have them split up accordingly once Zeuth splits. It could have worked really well with Asakim if they'd held off on him messing with Zeuth until after they'd split up, having him helping one side while antagonizing the other, and would have made a better point of contention between the two sides when they fight each other, then have his sudden but inevitable betrayal happen after or during the big confrontation. As it is it's a real shame that we never really get to see how Setsuko and Rand/Mel would bounce off each other, pretty much all of their interactions in game are strictly business, and the non-chosen character doesn't really get to do much in game.
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Jan 4, 2016 12:06
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Onmi posted:ZEUTH, and it's considered that Rand AND Setsuko's story both happened. It's a mix of both, actually. Rey officially survives but not Talia, while Haman makes mention of Shinn sticking with Durandal over in Z3.1.
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Jan 4, 2016 13:17
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There's no canon route, bits and pieces from each route are carried over to the next game in both Z1 and Z2. It's kind of confusing, yes.
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Jan 4, 2016 19:43
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"Continuity" between the games is more a suggestion than anything. The sequels take a very loose approach to it, and it...shows. In really weird ways. With Setsuko and Rand it was kind of forced, but I have no idea why they decided to take bits from both the ZAFT and ZEUTH route splits, or why the good route of Z2.2 is not canon at all.
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Jan 4, 2016 19:48
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Blaze Dragon posted:"Continuity" between the games is more a suggestion than anything. The sequels take a very loose approach to it, and it...shows. In really weird ways. With Setsuko and Rand it was kind of forced, but I have no idea why they decided to take bits from both the ZAFT and ZEUTH route splits, or why the good route of Z2.2 is not canon at all. I'd say it's so that people that started with Z3 for some weird reason rather than playing the first two wouldn't be confused when they saw Lelouch and Suzaku talking about how supportive and trusting the Black Knights were and how alive Euphemia and Shirley are.
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Jan 4, 2016 23:59
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EclecticTastes posted:spoilers Yeah, sticking more or less to the series canon allows new people to play the games without feeling lost, and the SRW developers don't have to worry about fans whining about how certain people surviving totally ruins the plot/motif/characters. Basically, letting people survive or avoid being stupid in each game is just fan service for people playing the games, barring the blatant cases of "creator's pet", where such changes are likely to become SRW canon. Maybe each new series helps build a new timeline made up from different dimensions, so "secret" routes are much less likely to be canon, as such timelines are much more rare than their non-secret counterparts? Basically, if someone dies in 80 timelines out of 84, then they don't have very good odds of appearing in the new timeline; on the bright side though, at least that means that they're more likely to end up in some 'safe' timeline that doesn't have to worry about fighting some multi-dimensional abomination. So basically, the fictional characters don't have to worry about dying. Yay!
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Jan 5, 2016 01:55
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 We open back in Paradigm City where, like in ZEUTH 49, Beck has done his work on the Big Fau. The convo stays the same until the end where Alex mulls how the lesser world is reaching its climax; everything’ll be reset once more and Alex intends to be at the helm of that process. Beck turns down Alex’s job offer and runs off, like before. After he leaves, Alex and Alan laugh at the simpleton hoodlum – he’s incapable of appreciating the significance of this city. When Alex asks whether Roger is coming over in pursuit of Dorothy, Alan believes ZEUTH’s actually in the middle of a scuffle with the OverDevil right about now. That’s a suitable final opponent for such a foolish man, Alex sniffs, as Roger would’ve been safe from the hassles of the lesser world were he still in Paradigm City. Alan says that there’s one who uses a portion of “that power” within Roger’s group and Alex ponders if they can afford to ignore that as well… if our group prevails against the OverDevil, he’ll have another job for Alan. Meanwhile, he’ll just enjoy the lesser world’s spectacle from the safety of Paradigm City.  We’re fighting the OverDevil again and the scene opens with Roger telling Dorothy to hang tight – he’ll be coming to get her back after the thing’s dealt with. Asuham is leading his team straight towards a place called Liman Megalopolis but everything else plays the same as ZEUTH’s 50. This also includes the follow-up scene, with Gainer freezing Sara.  This scene is also the same but… Kids is now wearing some t-shirt and Chil asks what happened to his usual suit. Maria and Birin say it got dirty during the last battle, so they needed a replacement and that was the only thing that fit a man his size (Kids is miffed). Fast forward and our people have the target’s destination: Liman Megalopolis. This city’s the location of the Siberian Rail’s HQ and the main hub that connects all their railways across the entire world. Those rails are actually a system with which to freeze the whole planet – all tracks are equipped with special Muscle Engines and the OverDevil’ll use those to run the OverFreeze energy everywhere. These were part of Kids’ plan before the whole thing went awry and Bello isn’t happy with the Siberian Rail’s rotten antics. Regardless, it’s now up to us to clean up this mess.  Mission 52 (Zaft Route) – Gain Over  Same deal as 50, there’s the scene with the frozen kids and whatnot. They have a plan, this time: the OverDevil is already getting to work and the world’ll be completely frozen in seven minutes. Looks like we’ll have to save the three of them and society as a whole while we’re at it.  Mission Objective: Shoot down the OverDevil within 7 turns Mission Failure: Any allied battleship or Gain shot down or turn 8 is reached Skill Point: Destroy everything within 5 turns, the OverDevil last. (7 turns if your difficulty is on easy, 6 on normal) OK, this is a complete reversal of the ZEUTH route: while in there, you were encouraged to take things slow in order to kill everything and have the morale, SP and EN left to deal with the distant OverDevil, in here the OverDevil is smack-dab in the middle of the arena and you’ve a rather harsh time limit if you’re on hard mode. Prior knowledge of events is a godsend so, with that in mind, you should absolutely do your best to down Sara and then Gainer ASAP. Neither are resilient and, once you do that, everyone’ll max out their morale, all mooks (except the Black Dominators) will flee and the OverDevil’s morale is reset. I had it all wrapped up by turn 3 but that’s with NG+ upgrades. To be safe, you should get that done by turn two and use the next couple turns to hunt down as much as you can before finishing everything off by turn 5. You won’t get the cash from all those mooks but it’s the best way to get this Skill Point on hard mode (make sure you send MAPers like Renton, Kira and Loran up to the Black Dominators).  When you attack any of the named Gainer enemies, Mel and Setsuko feel their Spheres reacting to something. Marin sees what’s up when he detects a small dimensional quake happening nearby: it looks like an Orange was dropped in the region.  That, in turn, leads to the area being flooded in Antibodies and Holland wonders if Dewey deliberately made these spawn in a bid to take us out. Obviously, this is hardly the time or place for such shenanigans but Gainer sniffs that such is the nature of humans and it’s precisely why people like Sirius and the Frost Brothers turned their back on us. Garrod tells him to zip it and Renton demands to know what happened to the passionate “bro” he knew – the bro who pushed him to work even harder? Gainer doesn’t feel like wasting his breath of a kid and Renton’s starting to worry that we can’t save him. Eureka believes we can pull this off, though – if there’s one thing she learned speaking with Sakuya, is that there are no obstacles for love and friendship. Tifa ponders that Gainer and Cynthia’s OverSense is being used as nourishment by the OverDevil, so our best option at melting Gainer’s ice will be if we get Sara back on our side. So, for now, our first step in turning this around is to stop Sara’s Overman and get her rescued ASAP; Holland tells us to ignore the Antibodies and keep focusing on the OverDevil’s team. Sara objects that her heart and soul belongs to Master Gainer and Lady Cynthia but Adette counters that she’s too young to be playing both sides: time for the teacher to slap her students back to reality.  Destroy Sara’s Jinba and both her and Gauli free themselves from the OverDevil’s ice, like in ZEUTH’s 50. Kids comes over and tries to get in on that world-freezing action, so Kejinan and co. tender their resignations and all that’s left is to get Gainer back before wrecking the OverDevil.  Once Gainer’s down, everyone says their part and the kid comes back to normal. Interestingly, this bit gets flashier in this version:  : Gainer! Go get King Gainer and Cynthia! : Right! : Gainer! *Giant Gainer runs into the OverDevil!*  : He was absorbed again! : No, he’s--! : It’s time for a new Exodus! : Roger that!   : There’s the King Gainer! : Don’t relax yet, Gainer! The OverDevil’s coming for you! : !   : Gainer, you can’t fight that OverFreeze with more ice!: Then, HOW ABOUT THIS!!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAGsYvYPrG0 Yet another special event that I had no idea was hidden in the Zaft route.  As the scene continues the same way as before, Asuham’s aghast that the OverDevil’s ice was defeated and things only get worse for him when all the Breaker mooks turn tail and run off. Their minds were being controlled by the awe they felt towards the OverDevil’s power and Duke figures the fire from Gainer’s soul set them free – that said, the named folk are still around. Greta is fired up after this display of “power of love” and now just wants a good brawl, OverDevil be damned, and Renton’s a bit intimidated at the old lady’s gumption. Timp’s also interested in just letting loose and doing whatever he feels like, which means whacking that Melonhead that’s always messing with his life.  The Coralians bail as well, Holland figuring they were also touched by Gainer’s passion and this further boosts his hope that humans and Coralians can communicate with each other. A very happy turn of events, this. Finally, Kids sacrifices himself to the OverDevil and the scene follows the rest as per ZEUTH’s 50 – everyone maxes out their morale at the end.  Everyone buggers off in the same way as the other side and the follow up scenes are all the same, including Asuham, his sister and whatnot. Gainer and his friends steel themselves for a new Exodus and, nearby, Banjou and Roger ponder all the potential for the future that lies within these youngsters.  This is interrupted when Norman shows up to inform that they’ve a visitor inbound. Considering the location, Roger figures it ought to be someone unwelcome but it’s actually Angel. She says she’s got something important to him with her: that morose android…  Over by the Skull Moon Base, we’ve Teral getting the memo that Gagarn wants to take over the universe. The scene goes just like in ZEUTH’s 53 but it changes after Teral’s taken away. Kazami has been given his troops with which to crush God Sigma and seize full ownership of the Trinity Energy, so he’ll be heading down to the surface with those and some other folks. Gagarn sniffs that those people are useless anyway, so he can do whatever. While all that’s going on, Gagarn says the Alliance will be pulling from this base and asks Kazami to take care. Dr. Wily isn’t concerned, what with all the knowledge he has on us, and quietly vows to get both the Trinity Energy and the Dimensional Power from our people.  Finally, check the bazaar to finish the Haro secret. Brunom1 fucked around with this message at 17:33 on Jan 5, 2016 |
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Jan 5, 2016 17:30
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Gyra_Solune posted:...I dunno, I guess the format doesn't suit it well. Everyone's still frames with only very very seldom more artistic scenes of them, and in that sense it's hard to really sell people falling in love over people hanging out and sharing a beer, which SRW does do a lot of. SRW story scenes are literally VNs from 20 years ago, so I don't think that theory holds any water at all. Granted, they are tremendously stingy when it comes to showing anything resembling a scene, whereas your average VN would still include something like a character punching another or some other dramatic reveal. But SRW's big thing is doing it cheap, even if it means the format is almost entirely tell-don't-show.
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Jan 5, 2016 18:40
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