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Omnicarus
Jan 16, 2006

Mans posted:

Technically Rome had very few, almost none, offensive wars. Virtually every single conflict was justified as defending Rome or a very important ally whose integrity is being put into question.

Rome was always the bullwark against tyranny and senseless aggression.

They conquered the ancient world by accident after a series of trade disputes.

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Groogy
Jun 12, 2014

Tanks are kinda wasted on invading the USSR

Mans posted:

Technically Rome had very few, almost none, offensive wars. Virtually every single conflict was justified as defending Rome or a very important ally whose integrity is being put into question.

Rome was always the bullwark against tyranny and senseless aggression.

Rome sympathizing, literally worst person ever.

Dibujante
Jul 27, 2004

Groogy posted:

Rome sympathizing, literally worst person ever.

The destruction of the Second Temple was staged by Polish authorities, working in conjunction with the Allies, to discredit virtuous Roman military heroes.

DivineCoffeeBinge
Mar 3, 2011

Spider-Man's Amazing Construction Company

Mans posted:

Technically Rome had very few, almost none, offensive wars. Virtually every single conflict was justified as defending Rome or a very important ally whose integrity is being put into question.

Rome was always the bullwark against tyranny and senseless aggression.

War is always the choice of the defender. If they truly wished to avoid war, they would give the attacker what they wanted without a fight. Ergo, moral responsibility for war lies with those who choose to defend themselves.

--A Roman, probably

Westminster System
Jul 4, 2009
Rome cornered the market on diplo-annexing to victory.

PleasingFungus
Oct 10, 2012
idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off
I wish victoria 2 didn't crash so much

Psychotic Weasel
Jun 24, 2004

Bang! You're dead.
I don't think I can recall a case of Victoria 2 crashing or locking up on me... weird bugs sure, but never any crashes. Unless this beta patch has screwed something up.

NewMars
Mar 10, 2013
Warhammer 40k mod seems more and more likely. If these mechanics can be tinkered with, along with tech development in general, it might be possible to simulate 40k's terrible tech stagnation except for incredibly advanced stuff that is just dug up situation. Plus, I can see the fallen empire state in general working for a lot of races in general, maybe even the Imperium depending on how exactly it plays.

Gort
Aug 18, 2003

Good day what ho cup of tea
According to Johan's Twitter, Hearts of Iron 4 will not be released in Q1 of 2016.

https://twitter.com/producerjohan

Obviously I'd prefer if it was, but I'll take a game of higher quality over one that releases to an arbitrary schedule any day of the week.

PleasingFungus
Oct 10, 2012
idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

Psychotic Weasel posted:

I don't think I can recall a case of Victoria 2 crashing or locking up on me... weird bugs sure, but never any crashes. Unless this beta patch has screwed something up.

it has a tendency to crash more and more often past the midgame (1880s or so?), in my experience. my spain game is rapidly becoming unplayable. it's saddening to me.

SlyFrog
May 16, 2007

What? One name? Who are you, Seal?

Gort posted:

According to Johan's Twitter, Hearts of Iron 4 will not be released in Q1 of 2016.

https://twitter.com/producerjohan

Obviously I'd prefer if it was, but I'll take a game of higher quality over one that releases to an arbitrary schedule any day of the week.

Good. I hope this means we get Stellaris first. Time for a breath of fresh air, instead of another iteration of spreadsheets for Nazis.

(I want Spreadsheets for Nazis too, but I'm actually excited about Stellaris, and the inevitable crushing disappointment I will feel comparing how it actually plays versus the hype for it in my mind. I'm expecting Master of Orion III levels of crushing here.)

Pooned
Dec 28, 2005

Eye contact counters everything
I'm a little sceptical that Paradox on their first try can make a 4x game that is more fun to play than Hearts of Iron 4.

YF-23
Feb 17, 2011

My god, it's full of cat!


If there's no Space Serbia fallen empire I will not be as happy with Stellaris as I otherwise would've been.

Demiurge4
Aug 10, 2011

SlyFrog posted:

Good. I hope this means we get Stellaris first. Time for a breath of fresh air, instead of another iteration of spreadsheets for Nazis.

(I want Spreadsheets for Nazis too, but I'm actually excited about Stellaris, and the inevitable crushing disappointment I will feel comparing how it actually plays versus the hype for it in my mind. I'm expecting Master of Orion III levels of crushing here.)

Same, I'm so loving hyped for Stellaris I got into Aurora again. I had great fun going with the slow start, research post-newtonian techs, slowly build up and terraformed mars and the moon. Settled the next dual-star system over (it started with a gate) and began setting up automated mining colonies with mass drivers so the colony there could function as a minor refueling outpost for passing ships. Then I decided to start building a military fleet and immediately went :fuckoff: because holy poo poo it's the most obtuse and time consuming bullshit ever. I just want to build an empire and it's great that Stellaris has decided to abstract ship designs.

Fintilgin
Sep 29, 2004

Fintilgin sweeps!

Gort posted:

According to Johan's Twitter, Hearts of Iron 4 will not be released in Q1 of 2016.

I'm pretty sure that the #1 'at all costs' project goal for HoI4 was to avoid a release like HoI3. HoI4 releasing... Q2 2017.

Pooned posted:

I'm a little sceptical that Paradox on their first try can make a 4x game that is more fun to play than Hearts of Iron 4.

Given my opinion of previous HoI games, I couldn't disagree more strongly.

But hey, maybe HoI4 will break that streak. :unsmith:

KOGAHAZAN!!
Apr 29, 2013

a miserable failure as a person

an incredible success as a magical murder spider

Gort posted:

According to Johan's Twitter, Hearts of Iron 4 will not be released in Q1 of 2016.

https://twitter.com/producerjohan

Obviously I'd prefer if it was, but I'll take a game of higher quality over one that releases to an arbitrary schedule any day of the week.

There's another tweet of his from a couple of days ago saying it's still in alpha. We're not seeing it 'til Autumn, guys. At the earliest.

RestRoomLiterature-
Jun 3, 2008

staying regular
Just as long as HoI4 is polished I don't care how long it takes.

AAAAA! Real Muenster
Jul 12, 2008

My QB is also named Bort

I wonder if it will be possible to mod Stellaris to be the Battletech universe...

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos

Bort Bortles posted:

I wonder if it will be possible to mod Stellaris to be the Battletech universe...
I think bird people are a confirmed species archetype so that's the important part already in the base game.

Sky Shadowing
Feb 13, 2012

At least we're not the Thalmor (yet)

Bort Bortles posted:

I wonder if it will be possible to mod Stellaris to be the Battletech universe...

I think so, they've confirmed custom scenarios, haven't they, and given that rebellions are possible this isn't a situation where race = empire.

zedprime posted:

I think bird people are a confirmed species archetype so that's the important part already in the base game.

Obligatory SQUAWK!

Demiurge4
Aug 10, 2011

Sky Shadowing posted:

I think so, they've confirmed custom scenarios, haven't they, and given that rebellions are possible this isn't a situation where race = empire.

Yeah they've implied there will be a lot of events in the game that shakes up major empires. Stellaris probably won't be a game where you paint the entire map your color like in EU4.

AAAAA! Real Muenster
Jul 12, 2008

My QB is also named Bort

Sky Shadowing posted:

Obligatory SQUAWK!
CAW CAW MOTHERFUCKER


Demiurge4 posted:

Yeah they've implied there will be a lot of events in the game that shakes up major empires. Stellaris probably won't be a game where you paint the entire map your color like in EU4.
Indeed. I think it is great that they are building these things into the fabric of the game and letting people know loud and clear that it aint gon' be easy to maintain huge galactic empires. Kinda like how CKII has the facet of "losing is fun" (that I dont always agree with but can definitely see the meaning) in that bad things will happen but so will good things.

ArchangeI
Jul 15, 2010

RestRoomLiterature- posted:

Just as long as HoI4 is polished I don't care how long it takes.

They really bit themselves in the rear end announcing so early.

OoohU
Oct 26, 2013

Bitches ain't shit but genejacks & synths
I'm way more hyped for Stellaris then I am for HoI4. Because one is a new IP while the other I've played to hell and back. I've even started reading the Foundation series because of Stellaris and I'll probably read Dune next in accordance with babies first sci-fi traditions. But with HoI4 there's only so many ways you can skin a cat, and if you've seen one you've seen them all. That said, I'll still enjoy the hell outta it because making ahistorical runs is always glorious fun.

Minenfeld!
Aug 21, 2012



Fintilgin posted:

Given my opinion of previous HoI games, I couldn't disagree more strongly.

But hey, maybe HoI4 will break that streak. :unsmith:

Yeah, seriously. Hearts of Iron, in my opinion, doesn't do wargaming as good as other wargames, and doesn't do nation state game as fun as other nation state games. It's a kind of mashup game that doesn't seem to do anything too well. It reminds me of Sins of a Solar Empire which took the worst aspects of both genres it was trying to blend and turned it into something somehow worse than the sum of its parts.

Maybe HOI4 will be different though. I'm willing to find out.

Palleon
Aug 11, 2003

I've got a hot deal on a bridge to the Pegasus Galaxy!
Grimey Drawer

Autonomous Monster posted:

There's another tweet of his from a couple of days ago saying it's still in alpha. We're not seeing it 'til Autumn, guys. At the earliest.

Paradox is one of the developers that I would think would do quite well in releasing games as Early Access. Assuming they want all the players and feedback, could iron out a lot of balance issues and bugs, and have people pay for the privilege. And they're going to be trusted to finish things up and keep supporting the game long after Early Access is over so you know you won't be getting a DF-9 or other disaster.

Gay Horney
Feb 10, 2013

by Reene
Sins of a solar empire loving unequivocally owned though??

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos

Palleon posted:

Paradox is one of the developers that I would think would do quite well in releasing games as Early Access. Assuming they want all the players and feedback, could iron out a lot of balance issues and bugs, and have people pay for the privilege. And they're going to be trusted to finish things up and keep supporting the game long after Early Access is over so you know you won't be getting a DF-9 or other disaster.
Being in the door early in EU3 and HOI3 I am glad betas are behind an application now because that is evidence I couldn't be trusted not to spend money early on and waste time despite hating my experience with it.

AAAAA! Real Muenster
Jul 12, 2008

My QB is also named Bort

Sharzak posted:

Sins of a solar empire loving unequivocally owned though??
It was pretty good but did not scale up well as the game went on, though. And had some odd mechanics.

Psychotic Weasel
Jun 24, 2004

Bang! You're dead.
I was searching the Paradox forums to see if there was going to be a World War Wednesday today (the answer: no) and ended up clicking on the wrong thread, but because I had it set to only display dev posts it took me a second to realize it was actually full of people bitching and moaning about Johan's tweet. That's when I initially learned of the 'delay' but I gotta say, the most disappointing part about it was learning of Wiz's apparent unwillingness to work himself to death for our amusement...


But seriously I hope HOI4 and Stellaris don't come out right next to each other. I don't know why they would release them like that, knowing that there's probably some serious overlap in markets, but since one of them has been in development forever someone may just decide to shove it out as soon as it's done so it can start earning back some cash. As for which one I want to play first? I don't care, I'll play the hell out of both eventually so just finish one already drat it.

Deceitful Penguin
Feb 16, 2011

Psychotic Weasel posted:

the most disappointing part about it was learning of Wiz's apparent unwillingness to work himself to death for our amusement...
This poo poo always cracks me up because apparently folks in the US don't have any rights to vacation or anything of the sort, whereas Pdox has decent Christmas vacay for a private corp but nothing to write home about.

Not saying its you thinking that btw, just that the entitlement is pretty amusing to me.

AAAAA! Real Muenster
Jul 12, 2008

My QB is also named Bort

Psychotic Weasel posted:

But seriously I hope HOI4 and Stellaris don't come out right next to each other. I don't know why they would release them like that, knowing that there's probably some serious overlap in markets, but since one of them has been in development forever someone may just decide to shove it out as soon as it's done so it can start earning back some cash. As for which one I want to play first? I don't care, I'll play the hell out of both eventually so just finish one already drat it.
HoI4 is in active Beta testing and has already been delayed twice now while Stellaris is still in Alpha and was just announced. Paradox has tons of cash from Cities: Skylines and whatever so they are probably letting Wiz do his thing so HoI4 has good AI and bugs/kinks/exploits are worked out.


Deceitful Penguin posted:

Not saying its you thinking that btw, just that the entitlement is pretty amusing to me.
Its loving hysterical.

Decrepus
May 21, 2008

In the end, his dominion did not touch a single poster.


Guys what is there is a STAR WARS MOD??

DivineCoffeeBinge
Mar 3, 2011

Spider-Man's Amazing Construction Company

Bort Bortles posted:

I wonder if it will be possible to mod Stellaris to be the Battletech universe...

Oh man I hope so desperately that someone makes this happen.

Larry Parrish
Jul 9, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Most people in the US don't mind about not having a vacation period for most jobs because virtually everything except the service industry and government shut down for at least part of December

NewMars
Mar 10, 2013
I think the most important question of all is: Will Stellaris allow for the storyline of star control 2 to unfold exactly as it did in that game?

Seriously though, star control mod.

Edit: I will be sad if there's no slave shielding for defeated enemies and even sadder if the only reason there isn't is because no one thought of it earlier on in production.

Demiurge4
Aug 10, 2011

NewMars posted:

I think the most important question of all is: Will Stellaris allow for the storyline of star control 2 to unfold exactly as it did in that game?

Seriously though, star control mod.

Edit: I will be sad if there's no slave shielding for defeated enemies and even sadder if the only reason there isn't is because no one thought of it earlier on in production.

Slave shielded worlds inside the territory of fallen empires. Subjugated victims or murderbot containment? Only one way to find out!

Riso
Oct 11, 2008

by merry exmarx

SlyFrog posted:

Good. I hope this means we get Stellaris first. Time for a breath of fresh air, instead of another iteration of spreadsheets for Nazis.

(I want Spreadsheets for Nazis too, but I'm actually excited about Stellaris, and the inevitable crushing disappointment I will feel comparing how it actually plays versus the hype for it in my mind. I'm expecting Master of Orion III levels of crushing here.)

There's no nazis like space nazis.

Pimpmust
Oct 1, 2008

Baronjutter posted:

I really liked the policy matrix from SMAC.



You could make just about any society from it, specially after you unlocked the "future" policies. They were vague enough that it let you fill in the blanks with your own narrative. You could make a brutal soviet style empire with a police state, planned economy, and power value. Or you could make utopian communists with a democratic planned economy.

The choices we've seen so far for stellaris seem a little less flexible, or too specific. It's probably all super easy to mod though if any of it offends. I just hope for a system flexible and general enough that you could make anything from the Empire of Man to Culture to Star Trek to Alien in terms of your society.

So I looked up what the hell "Eudaimonia" is and learned a word.

I think the problem with having the political/social/culture "matrix" be too generic/simplistic is that while the player can certainly fill in the blanks and it's easy to have "anything" represented by a vague label it's harder to have meaningful mechanical differences, or even unique stuff like there's for some religions in CK2 or government types in EUIV. So basically the "slider" problem of EU2/EU3.

There's a whole host of possible sci-fi concepts from the Bioengineering, Android/Replicants and Cybernetization extremes (mostly out of a cultural/society aspect than just the tech) that are all things that probably will need (or should have) some special mechanics to set them apart beyond just +% boosts or a title triggered by having the right political matrix+tech.

République Vénus from Battle Angel, or yes, anything from Star Control 2 :getin:

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zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos

Pimpmust posted:

So I looked up what the hell "Eudaimonia" is and learned a word.

I think the problem with having the political/social/culture "matrix" be too generic/simplistic is that while the player can certainly fill in the blanks and it's easy to have "anything" represented by a vague label it's harder to have meaningful mechanical differences, or even unique stuff like there's for some religions in CK2 or government types in EUIV. So basically the "slider" problem of EU2/EU3.

There's a whole host of possible sci-fi concepts from the Bioengineering, Android/Replicants and Cybernetization extremes (mostly out of a cultural/society aspect than just the tech) that are all things that probably will need (or should have) some special mechanics to set them apart beyond just +% boosts or a title triggered by having the right political matrix+tech.

République Vénus from Battle Angel, or yes, anything from Star Control 2 :getin:
Don't forget the socio-political matrix in Stellaris is just the tip of the iceberg for defining the basic way the government works, there's a whole buffet of Policies and Edicts in standard EU4/CK2 fashion. So you can presumably have stuff like a caste based hyper collectivist not recognize robots as citizens, while a xenophobic empire treats every other race as dirt but sees their synthetic friends as racial brothers.

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