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Tuxedo Catfish posted:#2 is absolutely unforgivable*, everything else is a matter of taste and whether the mechanics highlight or detract from the skills the game is trying to test. A good example is the minotaur maze in crawl. #1 - sure, not mandatory but the default #2 - see above #3 - yep see 1 #4 - completely workable. This knowledge must incorporated into gameplay, where fog of wars complication doesn't make for interesting decisions etc.
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Jan 13, 2016 23:08
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:#2 is absolutely unforgivable*, everything else is a matter of taste and whether the mechanics highlight or detract from the skills the game is trying to test. Teleglitch is a huge exception to this. It wouldn't be nearly as horrifying and claustrophobic if obscured areas weren't pitch black.
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Jan 13, 2016 23:23
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Zombie Samurai posted:Teleglitch is a huge exception to this. It wouldn't be nearly as horrifying and claustrophobic if obscured areas weren't pitch black. It has a map that operated on the Fog Of War idea though.
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Jan 13, 2016 23:38
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Rrussom posted:Hey, so i've been playing DOOM RPG quite a bit and have just found out that its apparently also Multiplayer Compatible. would any of you want to give it a go? I'm not a big fan of Doorpeg but I'm down with just DoomRLA. Previous testing says I can't host, though.
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Jan 13, 2016 23:39
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If it's a single player tiled game I think it's cute when you can see the edges of huge critters even when you can only see the tile beside them.
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Jan 13, 2016 23:52
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I get irrationally angry when I fail rolls with a 75% or better chance and start telling my monitor about the loving BULLSHIT that's going. I am an adult
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Jan 13, 2016 23:54
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Zombie Samurai posted:Teleglitch is a huge exception to this. It wouldn't be nearly as horrifying and claustrophobic if obscured areas weren't pitch black. The EM Detector item does a lot to mitigate that - it shows enemy locations near the mouse cursor (as a little white circle), which gives the attentive player a hint about what's behind the next door, but won't pre-emptively alert them that an enemy is sneaking up behind them where their attention isn't focused, unless they're paranoid enough to check behind themselves. The map also doesn't completely operate on fog of war because it shows the level's global state at the instant of pausing. Where this becomes evident is when you notice already-seen doors are sometimes open whenever a patrol party is going through an already-seen door, allowing you to check where those guards the camera spawned are, or how close that search party originating from the blast doors is to your current position. -- In general, I'm fine with Fog of War as long as there's some sane way to deal with ranged enemies that are inside the fog of war. I want to know what the rules are for stepping around a corner or into some sniper's line of sight.
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Jan 14, 2016 00:20
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alarumklok posted:I get irrationally angry when I fail rolls with a 75% or better chance and start telling my monitor about the loving BULLSHIT that's going. I am an adult In the same vein, it's a stroke of brilliance that Renowed Explorer's game over page has 'Don't get frustrated! Try a lower difficulty level!  ' on it. Holy poo poo, I'm convinced their goal is to make you so angry you explode.
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Jan 14, 2016 00:25
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alarumklok posted:I get irrationally angry when I fail rolls with a 75% or better chance and start telling my monitor about the loving BULLSHIT that's going. I am an adult https://zippy.gfycat.com/ImpishTightAsianwaterbuffalo.webm
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Jan 14, 2016 01:18
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madjackmcmad posted:Goonthoughts on: 1: Fine for exploration games/etc. Outdated newbie-hate for RTS style of stuff. 2: Puzzle games etc? In terms of fog of war it's rather odd. 3. Standard FoW, good rts staple, etc. 4. Also depends on the game, for many games FoW unnecessary.
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Jan 14, 2016 01:44
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madjackmcmad posted:Goonthoughts on: It depends on the game. Games can use an unusual player-sight system to good effect, just as they can use a conventional system poorly. I'm curious if this issue is something that many developers even consider. And it wouldn't surprise me if platform games all look like they do because "that's how Donkey Kong and Pitfall did it", or if roguelikes just copy rogue (  ).One of the coolest uses of this idea I remember was in the original Unreal, the single-player game that was before Unreal Tournament. I remember watching my cousin (RIP) play this after we'd picked it up in a discount bin, and there's a section in an early level where you are in an underground tunnel, stuck there somehow. Buy as you look down the tunnel you see the overhead lights click off, one, by, one. Of course, the next step is to blast the baddies who come out in the dark. But it was very cool because it played with the idea of the player's "senses" in both a gameplay and thematic way. It's something I think has potential to develop into diverse and unique designs, much more than it has as of now.
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Jan 14, 2016 02:14
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madjackmcmad posted:Goonthoughts on: 1. Perfectly fine. You shouldn't know what you have seen until you have seen it, barring scrying or some sort of precognition (a few spaces ahead of where you will be). 2. Not total darkness? Possibly grey it out, with an afterimage of what had been there previously? Not the biggest fan of mapping and I have a crap sense of direction, so if there is a forge or fountain or something, a reminder might be nice. Possibly a flash of a monster if there's some sort of perception mechanic. 3. Ummmm, see my answer to 2? 4. Despite my RTS heritage, not the biggest fan of fog of war without a mechanic for extending lines of sight. In a fantasy milieu, you could use something like scrying wards or Eyes of someoneorother. At least in RTS games, you can build structures to expand visibility and/or ground control. In an RPG? Not so much, which I think will add an element of "gently caress you!". Unless that's the kind of game you are building.
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Jan 14, 2016 03:42
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drat that stone.
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Jan 14, 2016 04:54
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Has anyone been playing Delver? I bought it on Android a few years back, and they haven't been updating that version for a while now, but I see that new betas have been released on Steam every few months. I'm curious about anyone's opinions for how it's been progressing.
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Jan 14, 2016 05:01
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madjackmcmad posted:Goonthoughts on: For roguelikes? #2 is a real pain, unless it's only in some specific maze level or something. I don't think I've played any roguelikes that do #4 (or that don't do #1), unless you count the lategame in *bands where you're constantly spamming magic mapping and monster detection. Priests even have a high level spell that maps and lights the whole level instantly. #3 seems like the standard, "natural" way to do things. Almost every roguelike does it like that and it works well, although some old versions of nethack/angband did a bad job keeping track of what the player knew so you could see doors opening or tunnels being dug outside of your line of sight.
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Jan 14, 2016 06:28
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What is that anyway? An Xcom?
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Jan 14, 2016 06:32
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Samizdata posted:What is that anyway? An Xcom?  (It's XCOM EU/EW.)
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Jan 14, 2016 06:35
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Its X-Com, that map is in the 1st release of the new gen of X-Com circa 2013 or whenever it came out in 3d. Alright so here's what's up with ToME4: Its pretty awesome. I love smashing through the various dungeons. There are a lot of character classes available, and each has a pretty unique set of skills/spells. The problem with ToME is that once you reach the first major boss you will basically be at a dead end. I have reached this major boss -- who, from what I can gather, is at about the 50% progress level through the game -- on three different characters. Each character smashed their way through the game until.. bam, brick wall. This boss is just far beyond any challenge that you are able to willingly accept before him. So after hitting that brick wall (about 6-8 hours in the game) for the 3rd time, I uninstalled and quit videogames. The end.
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Jan 14, 2016 06:36
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StrixNebulosa posted:
Well, haven't played that one, and some of the elements looked a little more unpolished than I expected from an XCom.
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Jan 14, 2016 06:37
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That tome boss used to be the final boss until they got the east put in. He definitely falls into the "need to figure some poo poo out to beat him" though. By that time you should have enough stuff that if you're in over your head you have options to cut and run. With the optional content around on the first continent you should be able to get a good edge via some more levels/gear to get him. Dunno if this still works, but I believe the levels of monsters are set when you first enter a floor, so you could go to the tower as soon as you can and delve down to his floor, leave and go do optional content to get a pretty good level advantage. Things like making sure you have strong healing/shielding runes and poo poo are a huge difference.
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Jan 14, 2016 06:46
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METATERREN posted:Alright so here's what's up with ToME4: The Master is hard for a starting player but there's a ton of ways you can mitigate or outright disable him and once you're good at the game he's mostly an (entertaining) speedbump. First and foremost remember that monsters do not generally tend to heal, so you should always have an escape button on hand. Teleportation if you're not antimagic, lots of movement or a psychoport if you are. Get away, heal up, get all your stuff off cooldown, come back. Similarly, his second form does not have most of the fancy abilities his first does, so that's a good point to take a breather. You should always have a wild infusion or something else to strip debuffs away. Debuff him, too: lots of classes have access either to silence or to things that put talents on cooldown - those can destroy his initial defences and let you beat him up a lot. Any melee class should have stuns and unbalances and a way to close the distance (Rush, mostly) all of which are essential tools for any character. Dodge behind cover, drag him into single-width passages, do what you can to limit vision and reach to yourself and that will help with his ranged attacks and with his minions. He will happily come to you if you wait behind a corner, and will happily place himself in melee range if need be.
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Jan 14, 2016 06:48
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METATERREN posted:The end. You should give it another go and ask for a little advice before giving up. The Master is a frustrating dickhead due to his disables, summons, and firepower but with a little knowledge you can beat his rear end into the ground and the rest of the game is just about clear sailing from that point on. Antimagic Berserkers are super easy to play and turn him into vampire mulch.
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Jan 14, 2016 07:53
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RPATDO_LAMD posted:For roguelikes? #2 is a real pain, unless it's only in some specific maze level or something. I don't think I've played any roguelikes that do #4 (or that don't do #1), unless you count the lategame in *bands where you're constantly spamming magic mapping and monster detection. Priests even have a high level spell that maps and lights the whole level instantly. #3 seems like the standard, "natural" way to do things. Almost every roguelike does it like that and it works well, although some old versions of nethack/angband did a bad job keeping track of what the player knew so you could see doors opening or tunnels being dug outside of your line of sight. ChessRogue does #4, but I can't stand playing it for too long because it also uses smart AI. Enemies will avoid capturable positions unless forced into them by terrain/other pieces blocking all other valid moves. Since you also have to capture pieces in order to upgrade your movement/capture options, it starts to turn into Smart Kobolds without the humor.
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Jan 14, 2016 14:30
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Lutha Mahtin posted:Has anyone been playing Delver? I bought it on Android a few years back, and they haven't been updating that version for a while now, but I see that new betas have been released on Steam every few months. I'm curious about anyone's opinions for how it's been progressing. What I can say about it is that it's totally ok. It's not great, but it's enjoyable for a couple hours every week or two.
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Jan 14, 2016 17:05
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Floodkiller posted:ChessRogue does #4, but I can't stand playing it for too long because it also uses smart AI. Enemies will avoid capturable positions unless forced into them by terrain/other pieces blocking all other valid moves. Since you also have to capture pieces in order to upgrade your movement/capture options, it starts to turn into Smart Kobolds without the humor. I think I played that once. It felt sort of like Hydra Slayer in that you have to think about all your moves way in advance to get anything done. Hydra slayer seemed much easier to me, though I don't know if it actually is or if it was because I'm more familiar with math than chess. I really liked the mechanic of gaining new movement patterns from killing enemies, but the game was too hard for me to get into it. e: Okay I downloaded it again. It's still cool but also still too difficult for me. A careful player is supposed to lose by failing to think ahead and getting surrounded or something, but mostly I just die early on by moving into check. RPATDO_LAMD fucked around with this message at 00:14 on Jan 15, 2016 |
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Jan 14, 2016 23:33
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gently caress Adom. I wish I wasn't so addicted to this lovely game. I had finally killed Keethrax and was on my way up to get my reward. I had found a (+3, 1d7+2) broadsword, a nice robe, and a [+3, +1] shield. On DD6 a loving slug dissolved my sword, shield, and a few of my scrolls. A huge bummer, but I had a good selection of spells (playing a wizard), so I figured I'd have no problem getting back to town to fetch my stupid reward. On DD5 I killed a fairy dragon in a hallway and entered the next room only to find another slug. My first magic missile missed and the mother fucker one shotted me with an acid bolt. I honestly don't know what I could have done differently. I got lucky as hell with this character. I had farsight, strength of atlas, slow monster, acid bolt, and magic missile. gently caress... Almost 40 hours in and I have only made it to CoC once. This game is brutal and I suck.
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Jan 16, 2016 04:28
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As someone with hundreds+ hours of adom back in the day and multiple ultras I unashamedly say that by modern standards it is a lovely game and you should play something better. The new tiles are nice I guess.
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Jan 16, 2016 05:59
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Lutha Mahtin posted:
I think you're right, the only example of this recently I can think of is the Shovel Knight boss with the lightning flashes (Lich I think?) the illuminate the level and the boss periodically and really challenges you on your sense of space and timing. God, did I ever hate that level.
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Jan 17, 2016 11:24
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Sproggiwood has now consumed my entire family. My 20mo son will now take mom by the hand, drag her over to her laptop, and attempt to > USE MOM ON LAPTOP until she folds it into tablet mode and starts sproggiwood. At that point, he'll take it away from her, select a dungeon, class, and loadout, and then sit there opening and closing the menu until he gets bored.
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Jan 17, 2016 16:10
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Happy Hedonist posted:gently caress Adom. I wish I wasn't so addicted to this lovely game. I had finally killed Keethrax and was on my way up to get my reward. I had found a (+3, 1d7+2) broadsword, a nice robe, and a [+3, +1] shield. On DD6 a loving slug dissolved my sword, shield, and a few of my scrolls. A huge bummer, but I had a good selection of spells (playing a wizard), so I figured I'd have no problem getting back to town to fetch my stupid reward. On DD5 I killed a fairy dragon in a hallway and entered the next room only to find another slug. My first magic missile missed and the mother fucker one shotted me with an acid bolt. I almost never do the Druid Dungeon first. Herbalism and the black torc can wait, because getting them is less important than not having Keethrax drain all your stats and also likely being forced to kill a cat due to having few utility options at your disposal because it's early game. Also slugs can be mean when you've got corrodable gear and no HP, but when you're stronger they're just walking sources of Cat Removal. I just kinda don't get around to doing the Druid Dungeon until I set out to clear Pyramid and Griffyard because hey I'm in the area then but it's probably doable sooner than that, I'm just very cautious. I like to try diving the UD with characters that go for the druid dungeon since hey I've already got healing so why not, but you could also just play it safe and clear the tutorial dungeon and then try the puppy cave or infinite dungeon until you feel tough enough to walk to the CoC without dying to random encounters on the way.
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Jan 17, 2016 18:51
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Kobold Sex Tape posted:I almost never do the Druid Dungeon first. Herbalism and the black torc can wait, because getting them is less important than not having Keethrax drain all your stats and also likely being forced to kill a cat due to having few utility options at your disposal because it's early game. Also slugs can be mean when you've got corrodable gear and no HP, but when you're stronger they're just walking sources of Cat Removal. I just kinda don't get around to doing the Druid Dungeon until I set out to clear Pyramid and Griffyard because hey I'm in the area then but it's probably doable sooner than that, I'm just very cautious. I like to try diving the UD with characters that go for the druid dungeon since hey I've already got healing so why not, but you could also just play it safe and clear the tutorial dungeon and then try the puppy cave or infinite dungeon until you feel tough enough to walk to the CoC without dying to random encounters on the way. The Druid Dungeon is pretty stupid and the torc is a cursed artifact. It pushes your crowning back if you go for it early and Keethrax is a pretty stupid monster. You can get by without herbalism with blessed scrolls of uncursing/some holy water and enough knowledge of how herbs behave. Also don't sweat killing cats too much. The cat guy's ring is nice and all but not something to lose sleep over not getting.
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Jan 17, 2016 19:04
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ToxicSlurpee posted:The Druid Dungeon is pretty stupid and the torc is a cursed artifact. It pushes your crowning back if you go for it early and Keethrax is a pretty stupid monster. You can get by without herbalism with blessed scrolls of uncursing/some holy water and enough knowledge of how herbs behave. Also don't sweat killing cats too much. The cat guy's ring is nice and all but not something to lose sleep over not getting. Honestly not killing cats is less about not getting the ring but more about avoiding this: a post i saw the other week posted:dude i have never even gotten to the cat lord, im not spending an hour luring every cat to a room to lock it in on the off-chance this run is my best ever and i meet him that same dude, 2 days later posted:welp, died to the cat lord. i had that coming. But yeah the torc is of limited use, unless you're going for ultras (definitely don't until you've won a normal victory) or want a returning thrown weapon for a bit. Also I just thought of another reason to do the quest late: You can give Keethrax's corpse to Guth'Alak for a potion of cure corruption and it's unlikely a fresh character could do that very effectively/at all without access to teleports, holy water, or high level food preservation.
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Jan 17, 2016 19:33
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The cat lord is a humanoid and by that point you should have humanoid slaying ammo. He's kind of a pain but not that terrible once you get to him. He can get huge if you stab every cat along the way to death but even then if you know how to deal with him he's still a pushover.
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Jan 17, 2016 19:35
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Kobold Sex Tape posted:I almost never do the Druid Dungeon first. Herbalism and the black torc can wait, because getting them is less important than not having Keethrax drain all your stats and also likely being forced to kill a cat due to having few utility options at your disposal because it's early game. Also slugs can be mean when you've got corrodable gear and no HP, but when you're stronger they're just walking sources of Cat Removal. I just kinda don't get around to doing the Druid Dungeon until I set out to clear Pyramid and Griffyard because hey I'm in the area then but it's probably doable sooner than that, I'm just very cautious. I like to try diving the UD with characters that go for the druid dungeon since hey I've already got healing so why not, but you could also just play it safe and clear the tutorial dungeon and then try the puppy cave or infinite dungeon until you feel tough enough to walk to the CoC without dying to random encounters on the way. Hey, that's good stuff. I'm going to do the tutorial, puppy cave, then head to the infinite dungeon and see what happens. I've been killing cats left and right in the druid dungeon, so I'll try to refrain myself when I actually do make it back. I'm dead set on finishing this stupid game.
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Jan 17, 2016 19:41
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Happy Hedonist posted:Hey, that's good stuff. I'm going to do the tutorial, puppy cave, then head to the infinite dungeon and see what happens. I've been killing cats left and right in the druid dungeon, so I'll try to refrain myself when I actually do make it back. I'm dead set on finishing this stupid game. Even after clearing the tutorial dungeon the puppy cave can still be a pretty spooky newbie trap and if I were to head to the infinite dungeon at all it'd be before going to the PC, but I hate the infinite dungeon so I never do. If you're lucky you'll find the down stairs on floor 2 before the ants find you, and the cavernous level will play nice, and the vault on the bottom floor wont be mixed. If those things don't cooperate don't be afraid to just leave, because there's even less reward for completing the PC than the druid dungeon. I'm probably biased towards liking the PC more than I really should since my first victory came off the back of finding Kinslayer in the bottom floor vault, so yeah. If you run out of ideas and hate the infinite dungeon as much as I do then you can always just try walking straight to the CoC, most of the random encounters aren't too bad once you're not Literally Level One as long as you stay off the road tiles. If you're lucky one of the low level random dungeons will spawn along the way and you'll get to farm it. If you're super duper lucky it'll be the Putrid Cave and it'll have an altar in it and you can get the easiest pre-crowning of your life. edit: but also i play mostly races that start with highish toughness so that's where most of my game perspective is from. idk much about playing squishier races so keep that in mind Kobold Sex Tape fucked around with this message at 20:09 on Jan 17, 2016 |
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Jan 17, 2016 20:01
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ToxicFrog posted:Sproggiwood has now consumed my entire family. My 20mo son will now take mom by the hand, drag her over to her laptop, and attempt to > USE MOM ON LAPTOP until she folds it into tablet mode and starts sproggiwood. Are you sure you didn't wait too long to get him into roguelikes? By the time they're that old, they've already missed their chance to ever be a master. 
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Jan 17, 2016 20:27
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ZeeToo posted:Are you sure you didn't wait too long to get him into roguelikes? By the time they're that old, they've already missed their chance to ever be a master.  Right after all those posts about a game that uses the term "pre-crowning" and locking cats in rooms is a pro strat.
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Jan 17, 2016 20:38
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ToxicFrog posted:> USE MOM ON LAPTOP this is a pro adventure game strat right here
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Jan 17, 2016 23:50
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So did any of the standard builds in sil change viability or are the changes not a big deal?
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Jan 18, 2016 03:49
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Happy Hedonist posted:gently caress Adom. I wish I wasn't so addicted to this lovely game. I had finally killed Keethrax and was on my way up to get my reward. I had found a (+3, 1d7+2) broadsword, a nice robe, and a [+3, +1] shield. On DD6 a loving slug dissolved my sword, shield, and a few of my scrolls. A huge bummer, but I had a good selection of spells (playing a wizard), so I figured I'd have no problem getting back to town to fetch my stupid reward. On DD5 I killed a fairy dragon in a hallway and entered the next room only to find another slug. My first magic missile missed and the mother fucker one shotted me with an acid bolt. As has been said going right for the Druid Dungeon if you have healing is generally bad news. 95% of my starts are small cave/unremarkable dungeon->puppy cave->druid dungeon/coc depending on how strong I feel. Most of the stuff in the druid cave is rough, but slugs are nasty and Keethrax himself can be rough depending on your class. I'll usually at least poke into the puppy cave just because of the guaranteed vault at the end which often gets you a decent piece of gear. Grinding the infinite dungeon's early levels is also a fairly safe start (probably the safest, to be honest) but it's also super-dull. Also, unless there's been a bunch of balance changes since I played forever ago you generally want to go spear/shield, as they have the best bonuses from skill advancement. Another thing to do is remember to take advantage of the tactics settings-coward gives you a boost to speed if you're low hp so it's great for running.
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Jan 18, 2016 10:43
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