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Phone posted:4 points are loving dangerous, I'm hesitant to even recommend the Schroth. Dammit. So I take it even getting a "made for a 3 point" sport seat just for a drag strip is risky?  Good to know the regulations and such are totally OK with me having my bare head less than an inch from the headliner though!
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Jan 13, 2016 18:50
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Space Whale posted:Dammit. You'll be fine.
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Jan 13, 2016 19:20
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I mean, you will probably still be better off than a 20 year old car with one or no airbags, and it will put you in a better position, but it is likely less safe than the stock system. And yeah 4-points suck. The one I mentioned "ASM" is schroth anti-subarine, that is supposed to work like a 3-point in a crash and just holds you in place better while driving. I think the least safe I have ever felt in a car was going around the track in the passenger seat of a time attack car, with a 4-point. Bonus points for old tires and lots of sliding around. "please don't crash" was the only thing going through my mind.
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Jan 13, 2016 20:16
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jamal posted:I mean, you will probably still be better off than a 20 year old car with one or no airbags, and it will put you in a better position, but it is likely less safe than the stock system. You are worrying way too hard about a guy who is going to be doing some 7/10ths driving and a trip to the drag strip.
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Jan 13, 2016 20:56
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And also using it as a daily driver. If you get t-boned by a bro truck do you want functioning side/curtain airbags or not?
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Jan 13, 2016 21:33
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Iirc they're in the pillar not the seat. I'll look again after work Edit: Yes, there is an airbag. Space Whale fucked around with this message at 01:09 on Jan 14, 2016 |
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Jan 13, 2016 23:44
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Octopus Magic posted:You are worrying way too hard about a guy who is going to be doing some 7/10ths driving and a trip to the drag strip. Agreed. If you are really traveling fast enough / driving hard enough where you are afraid of what will happen when you wreck, you need to consider something dedicated (full cage, harness).
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Jan 13, 2016 23:48
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The crux of the issue is planning to wreck; no one really plans on wrecking. I'm short so I've never had to deal with the helmet rubbing the headliner business, but everyone here is trying to discourage people from having a compromised safety situation. It's not entirely intuitive, and people don't realize minor detail stuff like seat belts having stitching that rips to give you some slack in the case of an accident. It's easy to look over stuff like that and not realize that safety systems are designed to work together. I haven't seen too many instances of novices putting it into the wall personally, but things do happen. Phone fucked around with this message at 02:15 on Jan 14, 2016 |
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Jan 14, 2016 02:11
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Octopus Magic posted:Good safety tip: Don't crash. You won't get better advice than this kids
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Jan 14, 2016 07:31
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With factory three point seat belts, I usually just pull it as tight as I can and then snatch it to get it to lock. Then I ratchet the seat forward one notch. Is this dumb?
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Jan 14, 2016 08:17
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Laserface posted:With factory three point seat belts, I usually just pull it as tight as I can and then snatch it to get it to lock. Then I ratchet the seat forward one notch. Space Whale have you thought about buying another stock seat and removing some of the foam from the bottom cushion to get more head space?
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Jan 14, 2016 12:53
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They're pretty hard to find, and honestly suck. I also doubt I'd find them cheap. The fact that all the way down the base and rail combined height is 7" also means there's plenty of gutting to do, and a lot of that thickness is just motors and bullshit, not padding or suspension room. A few bolts and a wiring harness isn't that much hassle for track day (or before long trips if less comfortable, which i highly doubt) imo.
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Jan 14, 2016 21:08
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Phone posted:As for cars with good headroom and a V8, have you considered a C5Z06? The interior is practically begging to be ripped out. Hey now.  I'm good in my C5Z06 at 6'1" with a helmet. IDK about 6'3". Guess it would depend on how you like your seat positioned.
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Jan 14, 2016 21:37
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Posting this here as it might get glossed over in the chat thread but im finally going to the Continental Tire Road Race Showcase at Road America this year. For thoes of you who have been up there. Where are the best places/corners to camp?
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Jan 16, 2016 02:05
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I'm a bit late, but those Honda seats are likely factory or euro/jdm aftermarket. Manufacturers do make fixed back seats with bolsters/openings for seatbelt receptacles but I've never found any sold in North America. They tend to only sell the certified seats. If you can route a belt properly through the harness holes (or use a schroth), a fixed back seat is fine IMO. Assuming the seat you're removing doesn't have airbags.
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Jan 16, 2016 02:42
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Crustashio posted:Assuming the seat you're removing doesn't have airbags. The outside of the butt cushion has an airbag thing on it, which might be why it sits too drat high.  Are side curtain airbags really that huge of a loss?
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Jan 16, 2016 04:49
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I wouldn't even put money on the front airbag firing properly. 2009 may still be too old but cars use the position of the seat to time the deployment of the airbags. The safety systems of modern cars are extremely complex and interconnected. Gone are the days of throwing a rollbar, harness and seat in a CRX and being safer.
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Jan 16, 2016 16:24
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Pulling the seat is going to throw an airbag fault and it probably won't fire
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Jan 16, 2016 17:18
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I would consider getting a track beater and leaving the cts-v to be a nice street car. I started at road courses with my weekend driver FD rx7. After a couple years I started a crap-can team but I didn't have the team fully spun up or the car ready, so I continued doing hpdes in the FD. Until one day, I ran out of talent and spun it into a k-wall. Expensive lesson. Very expensive lesson for a newbie who has many more to learn. I had a buddy in the car, he got a good hit on the head. Minor concussion. He's lucky it wasn't something much worse. For me, driving on the track is about pushing the limits. You can do that with any car. Ideally, you will do it in a car you can easily afford to learn lessons on. One you have all the right safety gear in. What do you mean I need to flush the gear box every other weekend? Ohh, well I can get a gear box off the forums for $200. Kiss a wall and bend up a bumper? Get the hammer out and a can of krylon. You spend more time driving and less time spending oodles of money. Also, skip hpde and go right to amateur racing. ~$700/weekend to rent a seat with an established team (costs vary wildly). I bet your seat(s) + hpde costs (tires brakes, registration fees, fuel, etc) are more than getting in your first race.
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Jan 17, 2016 06:15
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parid posted:Also, skip hpde and go right to amateur racing. nope nope nope nope nope nope nope
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Jan 17, 2016 06:17
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It's worked for at least 6 drivers I have had through my team, and dozens more I have met through other teams. Driving isn't dark magic. You don't have to navigate some bizanteen certification process. Take the class. Keep your eyes open, and start learning. Does HPDE time hurt? Far from it but it's hardly required. If you want to go racing, go racing. Lemons, Lucky Dog, WRL, AER, or ChumpCar will all be happy to have you.
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Jan 17, 2016 06:42
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parid posted:Keep your eyes open, and start learning. I think your opinion of what the average human can learn unguided and unsupervised is kinda high.
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Jan 17, 2016 06:47
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It certain isn't the traditional approach. For me, its what I have found running my team and the newbies I have run thought that team and the years staffing for ChumpCar and Luckydog events in the west coast. Personally, its what I wish I had done. My buddy was on me for 2 years to come drive his lemons car before I took him up on it. I had no idea the value of what I was turning down during that time until I took the leap and did it. Do what your comfortable with. Know that there are other options.
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Jan 17, 2016 07:10
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You've might have gotten lucky with your paid drivers, but I've seen some pretty dumb poo poo that's obviously from it being baby's first time on track. The Chump Car driver's meeting is "don't crash, here are the flags". Also your estimate of ~$700 to rent a seat for a weekend is ridiculously low. e: This is east region, so ymmv, etc. Phone fucked around with this message at 07:56 on Jan 17, 2016 |
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Jan 17, 2016 07:51
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parid posted:It's worked for at least 6 drivers I have had through my team, and dozens more I have met through other teams. Driving isn't dark magic. You don't have to navigate some bizanteen certification process. Take the class. Keep your eyes open, and start learning. I think WRL expects someone to have done at least a couple of track days if they've never raced before. I know Chump didn't.
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Jan 17, 2016 14:10
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It's interesting to see people have such varied experiances with this stuff. Maybe part of it is due to the differences between regions? What do other people pay/ask for for a seat? The most I have ever charged was around 800 and that was several days at Laguna (one of our most expensive tracks). Even at that price I have a hard time keeping enough drivers around.
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Jan 17, 2016 16:45
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parid posted:
Yeah, nothing is better than some idiot driving around without a clue what the proper line or braking zones are, while being a danger to himself and everyone else out on the track. Trying to learn how to drive a car around a track while also trying to concentrate on racing a car is stupid. There is a reason Joey has rejected teams for WRL races when their only experience has been Lemons racing. From what I recall you have to be a solo driver with an HPDE group before being allowed to race WRL.
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Jan 17, 2016 16:57
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parid posted:I would consider getting a track beater and leaving the cts-v to be a nice street car. parid posted:Also, skip hpde and go right to amateur racing. ~$700/weekend to rent a seat with an established team (costs vary wildly). I bet your seat(s) + hpde costs (tires brakes, registration fees, fuel, etc) are more than getting in your first race. drgitlin posted:I think WRL expects someone to have done at least a couple of track days if they've never raced before. I know Chump didn't.
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Jan 17, 2016 17:05
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Speaking of WRL it turns out the JAB golf hasn't been retired and we should be racing it at Mid Ohio in April.
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Jan 17, 2016 20:40
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I'll see what the team thinks of running Mid Ohio, it's close enough. We just dropped the Denver (august?) race from our schedule because it's been changed to a 24 hour. Might just do four but most likely we'll pick up a fifth.
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Jan 17, 2016 22:26
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How does everyone think it used to work back when there weren't really just 'trackdays' Just devils advocate, I'm not saying it's a good idea in any way, shape, or form.
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Jan 17, 2016 23:31
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Amateur/club racing has a licensing system which addresses a lot of stuff that is commonplace in crapcan racing. It isn't perfect, can be abusive from an institutional standpoint, and it doesn't even scale up that well (see: "gentlemen racing" poo poo like the Ferrari Challenge which is basically Chump but with 500k cars), but it is a system.
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Jan 17, 2016 23:41
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blk96gt posted:From what I recall you have to be a solo driver with an HPDE group before being allowed to race WRL. Do you think they'd accept having driven solo with Bondurant's Formula driving program? I've done several HPDEs, but never got signoff on soloing there.
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Jan 18, 2016 01:53
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NitroSpazzz posted:WRL requires a racing license or being signed off to drive solo from a well known HPDE. This is why WRL isn't a chaotic mess of contact like all the other leagues. For what it's worth, the Chumpcar races I've done have been clean with the exception of a certain team with a dirt track Chrysler. I just avoided them all weekend but several other cars got rammed and for some reason they did not get kicked out. Inexperienced drivers are less of a problem than rear end in a top hat drivers who think they're invincible. I've had one vehicle give me a very minor tap from behind in about 50 hours of racing and the driver came up and apologized right after our stints. My first time on a track was a race which was a baptism by fire. I would have been better off with some HPDE experience but I managed to learn. User Error fucked around with this message at 03:01 on Jan 18, 2016 |
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Jan 18, 2016 02:59
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Dont you guys have something like http://www.ards.co.uk/ in the US? If you want to do any wheel to wheel stuff here the test is mandatory.
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Jan 18, 2016 10:06
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track day bro! posted:Dont you guys have something like http://www.ards.co.uk/ in the US? If you want to do any wheel to wheel stuff here the test is mandatory. That's because in the UK all motorsport is organized under the MSA. In the US there's SCCA and NASA, both of whom will want you to have done the equivalent course with them (including paying several thousand dollars for tuition), which is why there's now a market for grassroots series like ChumpCar and Lemons where there's no licensing and you don't need to drop $5k on a four day course.
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Jan 18, 2016 13:44
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kimbo305 posted:Do you think they'd accept having driven solo with Bondurant's Formula driving program? I've done several HPDEs, but never got signoff on soloing there. User Error posted:For what it's worth, the Chumpcar races I've done have been clean with the exception of a certain team with a dirt track Chrysler. I just avoided them all weekend but several other cars got rammed and for some reason they did not get kicked out. Inexperienced drivers are less of a problem than rear end in a top hat drivers who think they're invincible. I've had one vehicle give me a very minor tap from behind in about 50 hours of racing and the driver came up and apologized right after our stints. We're strictly WRL now but I may run a couple Chump races with other teams to get a few tracks WRL won't be running.
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Jan 18, 2016 13:48
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parid posted:bizanteen
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Jan 18, 2016 17:58
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I'm basically retarded and some of the driving I've seen by other inexperienced drivers on unsupervised open lapping days makes me look good in comparison. I would never put a novice with no experience in a racing situation for that reason alone.
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Jan 18, 2016 18:02
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kimbo305 posted:Do you think they'd accept having driven solo with Bondurant's Formula driving program? I've done several HPDEs, but never got signoff on soloing there. Like NitroSpazzz said that will probably be sufficient, but I would call or email first. I don't know what the SCCA requirements are, but to get a competition license with NASA you have to complete their HPDE program and then take competition school (prices will vary by region/track, but here in Texas it's somewhere around $300-$350). Depending on how quickly you pick things up, you can easily get through through the HPDE program in two weekends. Then you take comp school the next weekend and then you're off racing that weekend assuming you pass comp school. Also, a lot of people don't realize that you can use a street car for comp school., you don't have to have a race prepped car.
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Jan 18, 2016 18:26
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