Star Citizen: Big MoMA's House

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Romes128: Dec 28, 2008; Fun Shoe

Sandi could be your space mother in law

Oh gently caress new page
UHHHHH.

Hi sandi.

# ? Jan 22, 2016 07:18

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# ? Apr 25, 2024 11:10

Runa: Feb 13, 2011

awkwaaaaaaard

# ? Jan 22, 2016 07:21

Mirificus: Oct 29, 2004; Kings need not raise their voices to be heard

THE VISION

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/6271899/#Comment_6271899

# ? Jan 22, 2016 07:22

Romes128: Dec 28, 2008; Fun Shoe

Totes

# ? Jan 22, 2016 07:22

trucutru: Jul 9, 2003; by Fluffdaddy

Gwaihir posted:

Player counts and events that the server has to track are an n-squared problem, aka each additional player in an area makes for exponentially more CPU and network time consumed. In addition, there's the part about how game servers work- They run on a fixed tick rate, or frame rate, on the server side, and once you add enough events that need processing in each frame such that the server can no longer get to them all in 25ms/50ms/whatever tick rate they use, then poo poo goes decidedly tits up. This game, like every other online game that gives a poo poo about cheating in some form, is server authoritative, so once those frames start rolling over bad poo poo starts happening in all forms. Everything slows down, gets more jittery, rubber bands, or just plain hard locks in place until the server can catch up.

Add to that, that the people smart enough to do it well are both unicorns and are probably already working for blizzard and valve, and lol.
(And even they aren't magic, look at what happens in Diablo 3 when you hit greater rift 80+ with 4 people and you can only pull a couple mobs at once and can't even use any area damage or dots lest you bring the server to it's knees and hard lock your game till you die)

This is my area of research and there are plenty of ways to deal with this specific issue, just like Eve or any other competently programmed multiplayer game shows. Of course, each one has its own compromises but they tend to be reasonable using the proper techniques. They could even directly implement a simple interest management algorithm they find in some published paper and immediately improve their performance (The fact that players received updates from Vanduul ships thousands of kilometers away show that they are not doing any interest matching worth a crap, they probably just extended the range on the default values in cryengine). Doing that is feasible but your replication engine has to be built around it, so they are hosed unless they get a couple of capable people in there and give them the time and resources to address the issue.

So, hire me CIG, I do know about that poo poo.

# ? Jan 22, 2016 07:22

Romes128: Dec 28, 2008; Fun Shoe

trucutru posted:

So, hire me CIG, I do know about that poo poo.

That's like applying to be a waiter on the titanic even with the knowledge the ship is going to sink and you'll die a cold horrible death.

# ? Jan 22, 2016 07:24

WhiskeyWhiskers: Oct 14, 2013

Romes128 posted:

Oddly enough all this talk about adding the most boring and tedious poo poo to the game like jobs and cat poo poo removal and I've haven't seen anything about having a space girlfriend. Or are backers so worried about realism and fidelity that they'd get rejected in game too?

Same thread.

# ? Jan 22, 2016 07:27

trucutru: Jul 9, 2003; by Fluffdaddy

Romes128 posted:

That's like applying to be a waiter on the titanic even with the knowledge the ship is going to sink and you'll die a cold horrible death.

Hey, if they pay well my mercenary soul will be able to cope with it. (And after the ship is down I get to publish some nice papers).

# ? Jan 22, 2016 07:28

Colostomy Bag: Jan 11, 2016; C-Bangin' it

Romes128 posted:

Oddly enough all this talk about adding the most boring and tedious poo poo to the game like jobs and cat poo poo removal and I've haven't seen anything about having a space girlfriend. Or are backers so worried about realism and fidelity that they'd get rejected in game too?

Yeah, that sounds like fun. Not only do I need to hang drywall and transport cargo in the Verse, I have to deal with the better half when firing up this space escapade from hell.

I can hear it now..."Why didn't you buy the Reliant model with news cameras? I liked the color."

# ? Jan 22, 2016 07:29

Mirificus: Oct 29, 2004; Kings need not raise their voices to be heard

Scruffpuff posted:

Star Citizen backers are infamous for holding contradictory thoughts simultaneously. My favorite is that "you can't get refunds and don't expect anything special because the money you gave CIG is a donation and your ship is just a thank you gift", but also, "I paid a lot for this expensive ship so I want to make sure nobody else can get one with this kind of power without a lot of in-game grinding, if ever."

Will the Idris/Javelin be obtainable in game on release by players?

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/6271152/#Comment_6271152

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/6271783/#Comment_6271783

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/6273594/#Comment_6273594

# ? Jan 22, 2016 07:29

Loel: Jun 4, 2012; "For the Emperor."

There was a terrible noise.
There was a terrible silence.

So , they want dwarf fortress, except a hundred planets, plus what's in space, with the graphics of eve Valkyrie, in the next year.

Seems totally doable.

# ? Jan 22, 2016 07:36

Mirificus: Oct 29, 2004; Kings need not raise their voices to be heard

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/6274158/#Comment_6274158

# ? Jan 22, 2016 07:37

Khanstant: Apr 5, 2007

xanif posted:

It's canon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9WFw56Mv1w

Is there additional context to make any of this make sense? How does that dumptruck work in space and just shove that spaceship off like there's normal gravity? Why the gently caress would they do that anyway, surely those materials can be of use and obviously you don't want a bunch of heavy and dangrous debris floating around your station..? Why even do they need to clear it off immediately with no concern or respect for the pilot?

# ? Jan 22, 2016 07:39

Khanstant: Apr 5, 2007

spacetoaster posted:

I made a thing.

33:05 of the latest AtV.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96EV43rvI5Q

"We're saving you money every week by not buying new envelopes!"

# ? Jan 22, 2016 07:45

ZenMaster: Jan 24, 2006; I Saved PC Gaming

peter gabriel posted:

Well I made it so have a nosey!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTvMIH71rQc

irrationally mad at 4:10 you missed that secret area

# ? Jan 22, 2016 07:45

trucutru: Jul 9, 2003; by Fluffdaddy

LowellDND posted:

So , they want dwarf fortress, except a hundred planets, plus what's in space, with the graphics of eve Valkyrie, in the next year.

Seems totally doable.

No, they want fidelity, an actual simulation. Like you function as the brain of your pilot and when you decide to do something the game simulates the electrochemical messages that tell your avatar to move its hands, which in turn manipulate the ship controls, which interact with the PID controller, that gives feedback to the avionics computer that controls the engines/ailerons/etc which are then used in the physics simulation to control your ship.

It's actually pretty simple when you think about it.

# ? Jan 22, 2016 07:47

Randarkman: Jul 18, 2011

United Earth Empire is bad name

# ? Jan 22, 2016 07:58

JazzPaws: Aug 10, 2014; - Ponzi Scheme Survivor -

trucutru posted:

No, they want fidelity, an actual simulation. Like you function as the brain of your pilot and when you decide to do something the game simulates the electrochemical messages that tell your avatar to move its hands, which in turn manipulate the ship controls, which interact with the PID controller, that gives feedback to the avionics computer that controls the engines/ailerons/etc which are then used in the physics simulation to control your ship.

It's actually pretty simple when you think about it.

Sadly by the time the actual game is "finished" all the technology featured in-game will be obsolete. We would have left Earth a millennia ago, and left a small outpost on Mars on the way through.

# ? Jan 22, 2016 08:00

ZenMaster: Jan 24, 2006; I Saved PC Gaming

Mirificus posted:

"there are rumors that CIG has made a ton more progress than we actually can see"

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/41tzs9/a_bit_concerned_after_finally_coming_back_as_an/

so, we don't understand game development, or we are looking at it correctly for a AAA title, just not for what SC is and how it will be made??

COME ON REDDIT PICK A SCRIPT

# ? Jan 22, 2016 08:06

Loel: Jun 4, 2012; "For the Emperor."

There was a terrible noise.
There was a terrible silence.

trucutru posted:

No, they want fidelity, an actual simulation. Like you function as the brain of your pilot and when you decide to do something the game simulates the electrochemical messages that tell your avatar to move its hands, which in turn manipulate the ship controls, which interact with the PID controller, that gives feedback to the avionics computer that controls the engines/ailerons/etc which are then used in the physics simulation to control your ship.

It's actually pretty simple when you think about it.

So, they want the Matrix :v:

# ? Jan 22, 2016 08:11

trucutru: Jul 9, 2003; by Fluffdaddy

LowellDND posted:

So, they want the Matrix

That's basically it, yeah. They want to wait for their crates to arrive, use their grabby hands to load them into their chariot, take a lunch break to recover their energy, continue loading the ship, then paying their helpers and doing space taxes.

I don't like making fun of spergs but these guys may have a problem.

# ? Jan 22, 2016 08:18

WhiskeyWhiskers: Oct 14, 2013

trucutru posted:

That's basically it, yeah. They want to wait for their crates to arrive, use their grabby hands to load them into their chariot, take a lunch break to recover their energy, continue loading the ship, then paying their helpers and doing space taxes.

I don't like making fun of spergs but these guys may have a problem.

You know, maybe it is possible that two insane German auditors are very passionate about this game.

# ? Jan 22, 2016 08:20

trucutru: Jul 9, 2003; by Fluffdaddy

Like, you know that there must be people who think that moving blocks/crates around was the best part of the old-school tomb raider games. Well, those guys are waiting for SC to make their dreams a reality.

# ? Jan 22, 2016 08:25

Ghostlight: Sep 25, 2009; maybe for one second you can pause; try to step into another person's perspective, and understand that a watermelon is cursing me

WhiskeyWhiskers posted:

You know, maybe it is possible that two insane German auditors are very passionate about this game.

There's actually like four or five of them. Karl and Matilda are just the most vocal.

# ? Jan 22, 2016 08:29

Romes128: Dec 28, 2008; Fun Shoe

Colostomy Bag posted:

Yeah, that sounds like fun. Not only do I need to hang drywall and transport cargo in the Verse, I have to deal with the better half when firing up this space escapade from hell.

I can hear it now..."Why didn't you buy the Reliant model with news cameras? I liked the color."

Requesting Chris roberts add depression levels, anger, and other emotions in the game to simulate my pathetic life.

# ? Jan 22, 2016 08:29

Romes128: Dec 28, 2008; Fun Shoe

trucutru posted:

Like, you know that there must be people who think that moving blocks/crates around was the best part of the old-school tomb raider games. Well, those guys are waiting for SC to make their dreams a reality.

They seem like the type of people that like the water temple level in OOT

# ? Jan 22, 2016 08:30

mrking: May 27, 2006; There's No Limit To What We Can't Accomplish

Every time some Star Citizen posts about what they want the game to be I am sure that they have a very different idea of fun than I do.

# ? Jan 22, 2016 08:33

EightAce: May 10, 2015; Watch it all come crashing down on his head and wonder why any of us gave him money in the first place.

CIG has more money than everyone thinks and will definitely see out 2016. SQ42 will not come out in its promised form but you will be getting between 3 - 9 missions that are embarrassingly basic. The real showpiece will be the shockingly bad cut scene nonsense showing shiny A lister's reading Chris appalling script .
There is some sort of rally being held by the Fuehrer in LA next week and the final plans will be put into place as to how they will drip feed the news that most of what has been promised is now to be dropped or pushed back indefinitely. Those not in the Cult will have seen this happening these past couple of weeks as I said it would. The odd Whale will kick off and that will be that .

# ? Jan 22, 2016 08:53

Mendrian: Jan 6, 2013

sanctimoniousqfd posted:

Not caught up yet, so entirely feasible someone has already answered this, but...

Basically it all boils down to architecture and data budgets.

When designing an engine, the architecture of the engine is determined based on a set of requirements drawn up very early on and taking into account technology now and (e: *possibly*) projected technology a couple of years out. That determines how much run time a given thread gets, how quickly file IO requests will be serviced, how data pipelines will be organized to guarantee a particular memory fill and drain rate and reduce CPU/GPU stalls, at what frequency inputs are processed in order for them to be translated, serialized and sent to the simulation (whether server-side, client-side or some combination of both) to make the game feel responsive. How gameplay events are processed (e.g. interrupt, single-, double- or even triple-buffered) by the various gameplay systems, what inputs must be authoritative vs extrapolated for the physics and animation systems to do their work, what order gameplay events are processed by the gameplay components that consume them, etc, etc.

As a result of laying down all of these specifics, an engine builds up thresholds in its tolerance to changes in the underlying assumptions made in order to turn the engine into a viable product... "cruft", if you will. For the CryEngine, evidently one of those thresholds was that it can handle simulation inputs for 16 players, but going above that starts to create instabilities in other systems - perhaps important messages are now dropped by the networking systems due to buffers not being big enough to handle the additional influx of data.

I am not overly familiar with CryEngine, but this may or may not scale linearly, resulting in a geometric or (eek!) exponential increase in resource requirements - in any given instance, the simulation server needs to be able to simulate a possible X*(n*(n-1)) interactions in a given timestep (where X is the number of interactions possible by a player in a given timestep, and n is the number of players), and the clients need to be able to handle the increased event load that comes with it. Going from 16 to 24 players means more than doubling the number of possible interactions in given timestep, all of which is sent to and from the server with varying guarantees of delivery (lost packets may be re-requested, resulting in a delay in processing, or dropped altogether and so never known about).

Now, there are steps that can be taken to greatly mitigate the increased traffic, such as defining interaction "causality bubbles" where fine-grain interactions are only sent to peers in the general locality, but the engine still needs to be able to cope under the strain of all players choosing to be in the same place at once.

That's why engine limitations like number of supported players are usually set in stone and do not tend to fluctuate much over the course of an engine's lifetime without large-scale changes to how those interactions are implemented. From an engineering standpoint, depending on the the original specifications for an engine it can often be easier to throw it all away and start again... but that is enormously costly, in terms of time, money and lost experience. This is why COD still runs on a heavily modified Quake engine, why Bethesda games still run on Gamebryo, why the latest Splinter Cell still ran on an extremely mature version of the Unreal Warfare engine that was used for the very first Splinter Cell, etc, etc.

Wow, my first effort post on SA... hope you enjoyed it :-)

I did, yes thanks!

I mean I don't have a real technical background. I was a CS student for a little over 2 years. I understand the principles behind the things you're talking about, but I've never been a programmer, so I appreciate the information. Seriously, I claim ignorance on this stuff, I don't pretend to know.

I mean it sounds like you basically answered the important question: can CryEngine ever really be scaled up to meet the requirements of their MMO idea? And the answer seems like, no, of course loving not, because it would require hardware and software engineering feats that even major companies don't like to make.

# ? Jan 22, 2016 09:00

Marching Powder: Mar 8, 2008; stop the fucking fight, cornerman, your dude is fucking done and is about to be killed.

EightAce posted:

CIG has more money than everyone thinks and will definitely see out 2016. SQ42 will not come out in its promised form but you will be getting between 3 - 9 missions that are embarrassingly basic. The real showpiece will be the shockingly bad cut scene nonsense showing shiny A lister's reading Chris appalling script .
There is some sort of rally being held by the Fuehrer in LA next week and the final plans will be put into place as to how they will drip feed the news that most of what has been promised is now to be dropped or pushed back indefinitely. Those not in the Cult will have seen this happening these past couple of weeks as I said it would. The odd Whale will kick off and that will be that .

I hope to God you aren't making this up. 3-9 missions? Hahaha gently caress.

# ? Jan 22, 2016 09:01

RearmingStrafbomber: Jan 29, 2009; 1-1-2029, tonight the stars are shining bright

Armored Warfare runs smooth 15v15 matches on CryEngine.

I assume Frankfurt is busy unfucking 32+32bit positioning and San Diego is hamfist playing with player count maximums. Or is StarEngine fundamentally worse than CryEngine?

# ? Jan 22, 2016 09:01

Justin Tyme: Feb 22, 2011

EightAce posted:

CIG has more money than everyone thinks and will definitely see out 2016. SQ42 will not come out in its promised form but you will be getting between 3 - 9 missions that are embarrassingly basic. The real showpiece will be the shockingly bad cut scene nonsense showing shiny A lister's reading Chris appalling script .
There is some sort of rally being held by the Fuehrer in LA next week and the final plans will be put into place as to how they will drip feed the news that most of what has been promised is now to be dropped or pushed back indefinitely. Those not in the Cult will have seen this happening these past couple of weeks as I said it would. The odd Whale will kick off and that will be that .

I'll be curious what the "Star Citizen: A True Hollywood Story" will pin the shortcomings on.

# ? Jan 22, 2016 09:02

Mendrian: Jan 6, 2013

EightAce posted:

CIG has more money than everyone thinks and will definitely see out 2016. SQ42 will not come out in its promised form but you will be getting between 3 - 9 missions that are embarrassingly basic. The real showpiece will be the shockingly bad cut scene nonsense showing shiny A lister's reading Chris appalling script .
There is some sort of rally being held by the Fuehrer in LA next week and the final plans will be put into place as to how they will drip feed the news that most of what has been promised is now to be dropped or pushed back indefinitely. Those not in the Cult will have seen this happening these past couple of weeks as I said it would. The odd Whale will kick off and that will be that .

While embarrassing, I hope this is true. It would be nice to see CIG show some humility, even if it's drip-fed humility.

# ? Jan 22, 2016 09:04

Iglocska: Nov 23, 2015

mrking posted:

Every time some Star Citizen posts about what they want the game to be I am sure that they have a very different idea of fun than I do.

Are you sure? Have you heard about the fourth stimpire?

# ? Jan 22, 2016 09:07

EightAce: May 10, 2015; Watch it all come crashing down on his head and wonder why any of us gave him money in the first place.

Mendrian posted:

While embarrassing, I hope this is true. It would be nice to see CIG show some humility, even if it's drip-fed humility.

Someone on here summed it up. Star Citizen cannot fail ..... It can only be failed. Everything from the tech to Derek Smart will get blamed for redacted features

# ? Jan 22, 2016 09:10

Mendrian: Jan 6, 2013

EightAce posted:

Someone on here summed it up. Star Citizen cannot fail ..... It can only be failed. Everything from the tech to Derek Smart will get blamed for redacted features

I would be fascinated to hear how Derek Smart went back in time and made them select CryEngine.

Really blaming negative publicity for anything at this point would be so far beyond hilarious it might actually become serious again. Like, it would look like boldfaced madness. Consider: they have more money than they ever thought possible. The only way to argue that bad publicity has affected them would be if it impacted the bottom line, which it clearly hasn't.

poo poo like, "these support tickets are eating up development time!" is just too stupid for words.

# ? Jan 22, 2016 09:15

mrking: May 27, 2006; There's No Limit To What We Can't Accomplish

Iglocska posted:

Are you sure? Have you heard about the fourth stimpire?

Pirate rape threads are more my speed honestly

# ? Jan 22, 2016 09:16

EightAce: May 10, 2015; Watch it all come crashing down on his head and wonder why any of us gave him money in the first place.

Mendrian posted:

I would be fascinated to hear how Derek Smart went back in time and made them select CryEngine.

Really blaming negative publicity for anything at this point would be so far beyond hilarious it might actually become serious again. Like, it would look like boldfaced madness. Consider: they have more money than they ever thought possible. The only way to argue that bad publicity has affected them would be if it impacted the bottom line, which it clearly hasn't.

poo poo like, "these support tickets are eating up development time!" is just too stupid for words.

Since when did any sort of professionalism, accountability or logic come into any of this ?

# ? Jan 22, 2016 09:21

Chalks: Sep 30, 2009

Mirificus posted:

"there are rumors that CIG has made a ton more progress than we actually can see"

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/41tzs9/a_bit_concerned_after_finally_coming_back_as_an/

There are rumour that the "Open Development" thing is a load of old poo poo, and I do rather agree.

To be frank it's stupid that we can see as much "progress" as we can because it's all buggy as gently caress and the issues the game has don't require alpha testers to find.

# ? Jan 22, 2016 09:22

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# ? Apr 25, 2024 11:10

Rudager: Apr 29, 2008

alf_pogs posted:

someone in this thread mentioned that the SC alpha at the moment doesn't have any bug-reporting feature, automated or otherwise.

is this true? it seems (to my feeble, non-game-development brain) that without something like this, it's nearly impossible to determine common issues, let alone their causes. so i guess my question is, what exactly are CIG learning from this whole thing? how are they checking the game?

I mentioned it before, I remember it being on some kind CiG wishlist or something, but just searching things like 'Star Citizen bug reporting" and seeing all the hits asking how to report bugs is pretty damning in itself. A lot of them are old, so maybe they changed it, but even then, why release any public "alpha" without bug reporting is dumb as hell.

# ? Jan 22, 2016 09:26

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