Star Citizen: Big MoMA's House

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G0RF: Mar 19, 2015; Some galactic defender you are, Space Cadet.

Alright gents, this is a bloody long Effort Post that remains, despite considerable time spent, incomplete. But I figured it would be worth putting some of the key Star Marine dates into a single hyperlinked timeline. Forgive me in advance for minor errors. I know most of this isn't news to the Regulars here; my hope is to enlighten the casual visitors, particularly those who are skeptical of our skepticism. I may be overestimating the power of deductive reasoning here.

If so, drat you hopelessly irrational nerds!

Okay, here we go!

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PAX AUSTRALIA - November 5th, 2014

Chris Roberts debuts promising footage of the upcoming FPS shooter component of Star Citizen to a rapturous audience. Later in the presentation, he introduces Illfonic, the contractor developing the game.

---

STAR CITIZEN PAX EAST PRESENTATION - March 6th, 2015

Chris Roberts shows improvements made in the last quarter to the FPS component. He explains that the FPS will release in "3 weeks time", as soon as they finish transition animations and finish modeling trickier elements like Zero-G combat. He then states that CIG's goal is to have "the best playable soldiers on the simulated battlefield".

Not long thereafter, he introduces the in-game fiction name of their combat module, "Star Marine", apparently unaware that the trademark has already been registered by another party for use in video game and film properties.

---

INTERVIEW WITH REDBULL.COM - June 4th, 2015

In an interview with RedBull.com, Chris Roberts says of his FPS ambitions that "Star Citizen has to be as good or better than anything out there." He later speaks of his plans to add a procedural system for destructible environments, to improve upon Battlefield 4's scripted events.

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POLYGON, OTHERS REPORTS "STAR MARINE" MAY BE DELAYED INDEFINITELY- June 30th, 2015

Seizing on either ill-chosen or confessional disclosures in the latest "Letter from the Chairman", Polygon reports:

quote:

"Chris Roberts' Star Citizen, the spiritual successor to the Wing Commander series and unprecedented crowdfunding success, has encountered serious technical and gameplay issues that will indefinitely delay one of the game's key modules, a first-person shooter called Star Marine."

These rumors generate consider alarm in the fanbase.

---

BEN LESNICK POSTS "SOME THOUGHTS ON CONCERNS!" IN THE RSI FORUMS - July 2015

Seeking to dispel the alarm of backers, and to take shots at those promulgating them, Ben Lesnick writes a lengthy missive at RSI. It opens with an update on the status of Star Marine:

quote:

"What is happening? The weekly updates from the team will give you a better idea, but the short story is that Star Marine was not ready for launch when we had hoped (and planned.) We spent several weeks expecting that resolving a then-current crop of blockers would allow a PTU publish. When this didn�t happen, we conducted a full review of the module lead by our top technical folks from around the company. What they determined was what you read in Chris� letter two weeks ago: we need to rebuild several �boring� backend pieces and we need to fix serious animation issues before there would be any benefit to a release.

It would not be my place to give you a timetable, but with the number of people I�m seeing who genuinely believe that we somehow now aren�t doing the FPS module I will say that we are talking about a delay of weeks and not months/years/decades."

---

GUIDE TO STAR MARINE - July 2015

This is a well-made, fan-generated overview of the game from July of 2015. Note that there is no speculation here; the fan has simply condensed material (video, lore, weapons, interfaces and gameplay info) that had been previously disseminated by CIG since they debuted FPS gameplay at PAX Australia in November of 2014.

Introduction
Game Modes & Maps
Customization
The Armory
Advanced Mastery
Access

The Firestorm: Microwave Cannon (Don't mind this; it never existed!)

---

DEREK SMART PUBLISHES "INTERSTELLAR CITIZENS"- July 6th, 2015

Game Developer Derek Smart offers his first lengthy critique of Star Citizen. It is notable for a variety of reasons, including the fact that he writes over 4000 words (not kidding) of preamble before finally addressing his concerns with Star Citizen and commenting on the rumored setbacks with Star Marine.

Derek Smart posted:

"The RSI devs have all the same insurmountable problems that I have encountered over two decades of chasing this whale, and which have not only led to their delays, but also the recent announcement that the first person module was on hold came as no surprise to me.

I have it on good authority that it�s not even on hold, but that they�re probably not going to finish it both because it won�t work within the current framework and it wasn�t in the original design as spec�ed, since it has ballooned to what it is today. So naturally, it�s the first thing to go, or put on indefinite hold while they figure things out.

Remember: the game, first and foremost, is a space combat game, not a first person combat game.

At least you will still have your hangar (which is completely and 100 percent detached from the game framework, by the way), in which you can still walk around in first person mode to look at your ships. And Arena Commander.

Why wasn�t I surprised that they�ve started cutting things out, starting with this? Well, because after spending over two decades making a game like this, you pretty much know what to expect.

Right from the start in 2012 when they said that they were using CryEngine3 as their baseline, I was skeptical. But if they kept the scope, and scene sizes manageable, I felt that it was totally doable.

Once the feature creep and increased scope started to unfold, I knew they were in trouble."

In response to the chaos caused by his first strike, the over decade long love/hate cycle between Derek Smart and Goons sees the first flowers of Spring bloom.

---

GAMESCOM 2015 - August 7th, 2015

One month after that fan video was released, Chris Roberts shows a live, multiplayer playthrough of illfonic's "Star Marine". In an attempt to rebut rumors that Star Marine had been cancelled, Chris Roberts states:

Chris Roberts posted:

"Just to show you basically its not cancelled, that its in development, it exists... We're hoping to have that to you guys before CitizenCon."

Later in the presentation, Chris Roberts states that Star Marine v1: The Battle for Gold Horizon will be available at the end of September 2015.

This was the last build of Illfonic's now-scrapped game that they showed at a Citizen event. Janky though the player animations were, it appeared to have more weapons (including grenades and an electric shotgun) that have since vanished.

(It is mildly interesting to note that CIG has left their low-res Gamescom presentation on Youtube as their master-- but they deleted their Twitch master. A note on the Youtube account promises, "In cased you missed it LIVE on Twitch, here's the entire, uncut, raw Gamescom Presentation. May take a little longer for the 1080p version to process with YouTube, but we wanted to get this to you as soon as we could. Thanks to everyone for making this possible!")

---

CITIZENCON - October 10, 2015

Curiously, there was a much-derided hype teaser for Star Marine right before CitizenCon 2015. The chilly reception of fans (and open mockery of critics) prompted CIG to table discussion of "Star Marine" at the show.

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STAR MARINE STATUS UPDATE - October 17th, 2015

After weeks of openly frustrated progress reports by Jason Hutchins, the last entry in CIG's ongoing series of Star Marine updates appears on the RSI site. It is here that an early conflation of "Star Marine" with the PTU Alpha begins, though it's worth noting that even at this date, "Star Marine" was still being referred to as a module akin to "Arena Commander".

quote:

"Meanwhile, work on Star Marine proper continues. Some of the deeper features are taking a back seat this week we roll out the basic movement and gunplay that will be available to all players on the Crusader map. This allows us to focus our attention on making the time players are outside their ships a good experience. What�s not included in Star Citizen Alpha 2.0? Game systems such as the score screen and Star Marine lobby UI, as well as some gameplay engineering and design work that is needed for Headquarters game mode. Have no fear, though, for Star Marine will return and your appetite for first person combat will be whetted by the action on Bravo station in the Crusader map. We will continue developing features and gameplay modes that are ultimately for use within Star Citizen, and we will continue to use Arena Commander and the Star Marine modes as a test bed for them. For now, and into the future, the FPS experience will be an integral part of Star Citizen Alpha, and we can�t be more happy about that!"

---

10 FOR THE PRODUCERS - November 23, 2015

"Just stick to the script, Jason"

In an interview with Jason Hutchins (don't forget the name), he describes Star Marine as "a test bed for new features, new game types, new mission objectives and maps" and later, a means to roll out "new enemy AI behavior for certain monsters or other NPCS out there". The point, he notes, is to allow upcoming FPS gameplay additions to be tested in the module before they are added into the game proper (the PTU).

Jake Ross adds, "And Star Marine is also used like 'Arena Commander' is used, like a simulation to practice your dogfighting skills. This is a simulator to practice your first person shooter skills."

---

10 FOR THE CHAIRMAN - January 25, 2016

Aside from discussion by Jason Hutchins in 10 FOR THE PRODUCERS, and despite ample opportunities available during both CIG's Anniversary and Holiday Livestreams, little attention was paid to "Star Marine" in the months of November and December.

Chris Roberts finally addresses the elephant in the room during his first "10 for the Chairman" interview of the year.

Chris Roberts posted:

"So yes it is still in the pipeline. I do actually kind of like to say something because I sort of get annoyed sometimes when I see this pop up in comments like �Oh Star Marine is cancelled or Where�s Star Marine!?� Star Marine was just a game mode for people to play the FPS elements of Star Citizen until we could combine everything together: Flying, walking around, shooting, doing all the rest of the stuff, all together, that is what is in 2.0, that�s what it�s 2.1.

With SC Alpha 2.0 onwards, you have basically what we were planning to do from Star Citizen and from the very very beginning. If you could back and look at the original pitch we didn�t say �Hey we�re doing Star Marine,� We said we will have FPS and Board, well you have FPS and you have boarding right now and so what�s really happening is there will not be features that will only be for Star Marine outside a sort of competition match and scoring that isn�t going to be in the game and so we�re actually rolling out the FPS features.

So 2.2 will have some more features on the FPS side and 2.3 will have some more and so on until we sort of what we consider the basic functionality. 2.2 has cover and some other things in it and we�ll obviously have future, there�s things like vaulting and sliding and different kind of stances that we have and there�s a lot more weapons that we have and they�re all getting rolled out and honing it and you guys are going to be able to play it in 2.2 and 2.3 and 2.4

When we�ve got that basic set together we will sort of turn on the map for Star Marine because all Star Marine is, is a game mode. Basically allows you to play a game, have two teams, have some points and so you can just sort of have a Arena Commander style match, but for FPS. That�s useful for you to hone your FPS skills without sort of being in the mini PU and risking some other stuff, but you already have FPS in the game so it�s not like FPS got cancelled or anything like that.

It�s definitely in and Star Marine was originally our idea of how to get people to play the FPS before we could put everything together, but since that obviously took longer than we expected to get FPS to the level that we are comfortable with. By the time we got it to the level we said �Okay you guys can play this.� Well we already had all the other things combined with the Large World and the 64-bit coordinates and the zone system so that was it. So there you are, we will have Gold Horizon, we will have Star Marine, but that will come online once all the basic FPS features are out in and live in the mini PU."

In the span of only a few minutes, Chris Roberts introduces a revisionist fiction that completely contradicts literally hundreds of public statements made by him and other members of CIG and Illfonic over the course of the last year. There will be no Star Marine module, and there need not be one, as the features formerly promised are now available in the PTU. Deal with it.

(As an aside, it's worth noting how this eerily parallels his wife's recent act of historical revisionism. After going to pains to deny that she was the wife of the founder of the world's most successful crowdfunding campaign, after demanding employees do the same, she acknowledges a once unspeakable fact and declares it as widely known. That the two most powerful figures in the organization both easily engage in public acts of brazen dishonesty should, for a fair-minded individual, be cause for alarm. Yet for many believers, hope springs eternal, even in the face of outright lies.)

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DEREK SMART REPORTS THAT CIG PRODUCER JASON HUTCHINS HAS RESIGNED - January 26th.

If Jason Hutchins has truly left CIG, I don't take any joy in it. He seems like one of the good guys and had a thankless role. Frankly, it seems like most all the roles are thankless when all successes are claimed the work of the Roberts, and all failures declared someone else's fault.

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This is the end of my incomplete timeline. Sorry for the wall of words. I hope to redeem myself with this video I've been working on forever. Two weeks.

GORF out!

G0RF fucked around with this message at 02:32 on Jan 27, 2016

# ? Jan 27, 2016 02:27

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# ? Apr 18, 2024 05:39

B_of_InfoRedux: Oct 6, 2015; WANT A MELTDOWN? KEEP READING FROM YOUR MOTHERS BASEMENTS WHILE YOU BEAT YOUR TINY DICK SECRETLY THINKING OF SANDI YOU HYPOCRITICAL PIECES OF HUMAN GARBAGE.

So I just woke up after finally coming down from my sperg freak pout high - anything important happen? Anyone else walk that we know of?

# ? Jan 27, 2016 02:27

peter gabriel: Nov 8, 2011; Hello Commandos

Beet Wagon posted:

Hey I know you were all waiting with baited breath, but don't worry. My soup came out just fine.

Soup done

# ? Jan 27, 2016 02:28

Mirificus: Oct 29, 2004; Kings need not raise their voices to be heard

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/315430/this-is-why-we-re-one-of-the-luckiest-communities-in-pc-gaming

# ? Jan 27, 2016 02:31

redwalrus: Jul 27, 2013

Mirificus posted:

Ben closed this this thread while caressing his Pilgrim's Cross

is the other cool game posting on forums outside of cig and getting banned on cig forums?

if they don't want people to be mad about star citizen they should try giving actual star citizen news instead of livestreaming disco lando sleeping on a $6,000 airplane wing table.
and stop selling $3,000 spaceships that won't be in the game until 2020 and also release a game one day

# ? Jan 27, 2016 02:33

peter gabriel: Nov 8, 2011; Hello Commandos

I'm still guffawing at the thought of some loving nerd crouched in a crate for hours until 'the coast is clear' :lol:

# ? Jan 27, 2016 02:35

peter gabriel: Nov 8, 2011; Hello Commandos

"Dude your knee is clipping through the crate we can all see you"

# ? Jan 27, 2016 02:36

peter gabriel: Nov 8, 2011; Hello Commandos

*crate spins wildly into space and explodes*

# ? Jan 27, 2016 02:36

redwalrus: Jul 27, 2013

Mirificus posted:

total cost of battlefront $110
total cost of star citizen $30000

# ? Jan 27, 2016 02:36

peter gabriel: Nov 8, 2011; Hello Commandos

redwalrus posted:

total cost of battlefront $110
total cost of star citizen $30000

'Paid DLC' 'sad when this happens to a beloved franchise' :psyduck:

# ? Jan 27, 2016 02:38

redwalrus: Jul 27, 2013

Mirificus posted:

Evil EA, releasing games you can play with your eyes open.

# ? Jan 27, 2016 02:38

eonwe: Aug 11, 2008; Lipstick Apathy

peter gabriel posted:

*crate spins wildly into space and explodes*

# ? Jan 27, 2016 02:38

Scruffpuff: Dec 23, 2015; Fidelity. Wait, was I'm working on again?

peter gabriel posted:

I'm still guffawing at the thought of some loving nerd crouched in a crate for hours until 'the coast is clear'

What's absolutely killing me about this is that he came up with this imaginary "adventure" entirely on the fly, with no indication that the things he came up with will ever be in the game. This meant the sky was the limit - and that is the best thing he could come up with. What a boring gently caress.

And he also implies that other players are going to multicrew ships for the express purpose of cruising the galaxy for crates.

# ? Jan 27, 2016 02:38

redwalrus: Jul 27, 2013

peter gabriel posted:

*crate spins wildly into space and explodes*

*pieces of explosions stay on the server forever*
*cloud compute shits its pants trying to determine converted 64->32bit integer accuracy for pieces of crate and spaceship to every new player joining the server*
*cluster eventually reboots*

CIG announces new cronjob to reboot game server services as revolutionary new technology

redwalrus fucked around with this message at 02:42 on Jan 27, 2016

# ? Jan 27, 2016 02:40

Berious: Nov 13, 2005

Scruffpuff posted:

And he also implies that other players are going to multicrew ships for the express purpose of cruising the galaxy for crates.

Ruff tuff real mean cruising the galaxy for crates. They know what they like, and they like a lot of it.

e: just to be clear, I'm talking about bum sex

Berious fucked around with this message at 02:45 on Jan 27, 2016

# ? Jan 27, 2016 02:41

peter gabriel: Nov 8, 2011; Hello Commandos

Scruffpuff posted:

What's absolutely killing me about this is that he came up with this imaginary "adventure" entirely on the fly, with no indication that the things he came up with will ever be in the game. This meant the sky was the limit - and that is the best thing he could come up with. What a boring gently caress.

And he also implies that other players are going to multicrew ships for the express purpose of cruising the galaxy for crates.

The only way this would work in the game is if everytime you looked in the direction of a crate loving <<USE>> popped up, good luck with your much loved manual moving of cargo guys, how's that going to work? <<USE A>> to lift up a crate and <<USE B>> to get in a crate and crouch for hours?

# ? Jan 27, 2016 02:43

dogboy: Jul 21, 2009; hurr; Grimey Drawer

Iron Tusk posted:

So what's the next feature to fall to Backpedal, Delay, Hand-wave away?

I have been told noone really wanted to have "space" marines anyways but its all about the PU (planetary something) FPS all along so I guess that sinks last?

# ? Jan 27, 2016 02:44

peter gabriel: Nov 8, 2011; Hello Commandos

Having played the game for some time now every time I hear of any new idea like clothing, crates, whatever, every fibre of my being wants them to happen because god drat if you put crates in the game as it stands anything could happen and all of it would be hilarious.

# ? Jan 27, 2016 02:44

Berious: Nov 13, 2005

G0RF posted:

GORF out![/i]

Thanks for taking the time to do this, I shall study it in the morning

# ? Jan 27, 2016 02:44

Scruffpuff: Dec 23, 2015; Fidelity. Wait, was I'm working on again?

peter gabriel posted:

The only way this would work in the game is if everytime you looked in the direction of a crate loving <<USE>> popped up, good luck with your much loved manual moving of cargo guys, how's that going to work? <<USE A>> to lift up a crate and <<USE B>> to get in a crate and crouch for hours?

If there's a guy in the crate when I pick it up, will it be heavier? I need my spaceman to show back pain! My immersion! :qq:

# ? Jan 27, 2016 02:45

CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK: Sep 11, 2001

peter gabriel posted:

Having played the game for some time now every time I hear of any new idea like clothing, crates, whatever, every fibre of my being wants them to happen because god drat if you put crates in the game as it stands anything could happen and all of it would be hilarious.

i need realistic clothing physics. i want it to move properly in the space breeze

# ? Jan 27, 2016 02:45

Gonkish: May 19, 2004

What will happen first: Chris admits he was bullshitting this entire time, or Sandi admits that she was wrong about literally anything?

Also if this game doesn't have space bulldozers I will literally poop.

# ? Jan 27, 2016 02:46

peter gabriel: Nov 8, 2011; Hello Commandos

CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:

i need realistic clothing physics. i want it to move properly in the space breeze

*collar moves, a ship rotates slowly away*

# ? Jan 27, 2016 02:47

dogboy: Jul 21, 2009; hurr; Grimey Drawer

Haha but I am so bad with all those acronyms, planetary unit persistent universe promises uncountability woo my head is spinning here what do I know

# ? Jan 27, 2016 02:48

peter gabriel: Nov 8, 2011; Hello Commandos

Gonkish posted:

What will happen first: Chris admits he was bullshitting this entire time, or Sandi admits that she was wrong about literally anything?

Also if this game doesn't have space bulldozers I will literally poop.

I think when Chris's pop up book autobiography comes out he'll admit he was winging it all the time then wink and say 'That's why I am known as the 'Wing Commando''

# ? Jan 27, 2016 02:49

dogboy: Jul 21, 2009; hurr; Grimey Drawer

I mean we could start with some sq42 cutscenes and some flash games inbetween and improve from here? Press w repeatedly fast enough to save the carrier and see gurl rear end?

# ? Jan 27, 2016 02:51

trucutru: Jul 9, 2003; by Fluffdaddy

peter gabriel posted:

I'm still guffawing at the thought of some loving nerd crouched in a crate for hours until 'the coast is clear'

Imagine his surprise when he carefully removes the cover of the crate to take a peek and *blammo* he realizes that his right in the middle of a space sex-dungeon and the space-gimp is giggling at him.

# ? Jan 27, 2016 02:51

Madcosby: Mar 4, 2003; by FactsAreUseless

How is it that citizens can hear a line like "we're not going to keep working on x, but it will be there at release" and be happy with it? There's no release date, and promising things "by release date" means absolutely noth

agipgpnwignanipwgnianiwfgnipqwtnanpig

# ? Jan 27, 2016 02:53

trucutru: Jul 9, 2003; by Fluffdaddy

Madcosby posted:

How is it that citizens can hear a line like "we're not going to keep working on x, but it will be there at release" and be happy with it? There's no release date, and promising things "by release date" means absolutely noth

agipgpnwignanipwgnianiwfgnipqwtnanpig

To be fair lately they have been saying that the x feature (private servers, etc) is going to be ready after release. Makes you think.

# ? Jan 27, 2016 02:54

2DCAT: Jun 25, 2015; pissssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss ssssssss sssssssssssssssssss sssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss ssssss ssssssssssssssssssssssssssss sssssssssssssss; Gravy Boat 2k

Is it true croberts canned the star marine module in favor of a scarf module?

# ? Jan 27, 2016 02:54

Beet Wagon: Oct 19, 2015

Scruffpuff posted:

Will there be soup in the game?

Rendered in the highest fidelity imaginable. We're working on the splash physics now!

# ? Jan 27, 2016 02:56

Ezekeel: Nov 18, 2015

Mirificus posted:

Ben closed this this thread while caressing his Pilgrim's Cross

Ben is such a terrible sad person. He deserves everything that is coming to him once the project crashes and burns. Heck, one of his former fanatics could chain him up in his basement and go full 4th stimpire on him and all I could say would be: Fair game. What goes around comes around.

# ? Jan 27, 2016 02:57

trucutru: Jul 9, 2003; by Fluffdaddy

that Dorito's ship is coming, I feel it in my bones

Thoughts on in-game advertising by real-life companies...? self.starcitizen

submitted 37 minutes ago by Good_God_Ash

http://strawpoll.me/6650700

quote:

I saw a dev on the forums discussing this briefly, and was wondering what the community thought.

By in-game advertising, I mean, for example, a fast food store called McDonalds, but it would look "updated", to fit the look and feel of the SC universe, or cans of drink and/or vending machines with the Coca Cola logo. I could post more examples, but I'm hoping these one gives you an idea.

My reasoning for being open to this is advertising is a big market, and SC will have a substantial player-base, so doing in-game advertising would generate a lot of revenue. It would also work very well in SC because of the high fidelity of the game, in-game, right now, you can read the small print on magazines and signs in amazing detail, something I've not seen in any other game.

Another reason is that CiG currently have over 300 people working on SC, with over 20 more jobs available on their website. I don't know CiG's finances, but with almost every game release, the team is downsized and this extra revenue would hopefully mean that's less likely to happen. It would also be a steady source of income for CiG post release, as, at the moment, CR has only stated that the only post release revenue will be from new players buying the game, selling UEC and future expansions to SQ42.

And my last thought on this is, there are going to be things built in SC, regardless of whether there's in-game advertising by real life companies, things like restaurants, bars, clubs, space stations, vending machines, soda cans, alcohol, equipment, etc, so why not simply offer a real life company the ability to put their logos on it and make money from it?

http://strawpoll.me/6650700

# ? Jan 27, 2016 02:57

Matlock Birthmark: Sep 24, 2005; I wanted this to happen!!; Soiled Meat

trucutru posted:

that Dorito's ship is coming, I feel it in my bones

Thoughts on in-game advertising by real-life companies...? self.starcitizen

submitted 37 minutes ago by Good_God_Ash

http://strawpoll.me/6650700

Hmm yes. I want 30 second sitting animations and people not to run since that breaks my immersion. But sure, ads for 5 guys and Geico are fine here in the 24th century or whatever.

No one knows what this game is.

# ? Jan 27, 2016 03:07

peter gabriel: Nov 8, 2011; Hello Commandos

They could have 'Sponsored by Vaseline' billboards on the landing platforms as ships slowly slide off them, it could be really immersive

# ? Jan 27, 2016 03:09

Mirificus: Oct 29, 2004; Kings need not raise their voices to be heard

RSI Forums: Romatics vs Realism (wall of text warning)

Camss posted:

Hi all.
I have been reading quite a lot around the forums lately, and I have seen a lot of dreams, hopes and ideas floating around. Not unusual, on the contrary, quite normal. I have my hopes and dreams on this game too, on how great its gonna be, and all the features in a complex game we have never seen before, and that this game might be the ultimate realistic game of our dreams. (Screw apps with P2W gems and unlocks, they should burn in hell).

I know CIG also have many of these dreams. And its great. If they could not vision them, we could never hope for them.
Before I get to my points, let me share a selection of the most common romantic vision on these forums. (generalized)

#1: Repairs:
The dream: Its gonna be so freakkin awesome with multi-crew people. Opportunities to repair ships, not just out of combat, but under the pressure of being deleted in fight, and turn it around just in the last moment, triumphing a very narrow victory. Or, when the battle is over, how cool its gonna be driving your beaten up ship into another ships bay, exit and start repairing it. Seeing scratches on it as a memory of won battles.

#2: Search and rescue, medical.
The dream: Its gonna be so freakkin awesome with medical focus. So cool that we will need search and rescue ships that will look for ejected pilots after a battle, or after a pirate raid. So nice with the realism in it.

#3: Being the hero
The dream: Finally a game where realism makes heorism true. I can get a loving large ship and have all these people work for me. I will have my capital ship in the middle of the war, and the swarm of fighters will chew through enemy lines will I direct this battle from the cockpit.

#4 : Exploring
The dream: Its so cool that we can explore things, find brand new jumppoints and get it named after me. That's gonna be so sweet.

#5: the full PVEP experience
This is kinda the worst one:
The dream: A full realistic PvP persistant universe where I wont be killed by other players unless its ok. Not that its ever OK, I just don't want pirates to kill me when im flying my new Hull C to the riskiest system in the game cause ill make a fuckload of UEC there. Its unfair if someone will steal it from me, but it would e soo cool if I could automaticly spawn a series of small NPC fighters that would destroy these pirates. That would be so cool. I want the players there, I just want them to act like players, killing me, the honest guy.

Its all good. It would be really cool if all this could happen.
My guess?
It wont.
So lets skip right to the realities of it:

#1: Repairs:
Reality: Battles will go too fast when they first start. Real players in digital ships will never stop shooting until all ships have exploded, and a small box with a green neon light around it can be targeted for tractoring to the cargo hold. When the shields go down, it will take way way way too long for an engineer to physically run around in a ship to change components. Repairing in battle will not happen, cause battles are too fast, and players too trigger happy.
The capital ships might be repaired after the battle, but only if it cant fly anywhere. After that, players will fly all ships to the nearest base where it will be repaired via point and click. Or, they will just self-destroy the ship and respawn in the nearest base, where insurance has paid for a brand new ship. Even with financial fees, people will mostly accept it and move on. Repairing the ship is a waste on their dream of being the top celebrity of the server.

#2: Search and rescue
Reality: A niche job for a dozen lost souls that think these kinda missions are a cool story. They will almost never rescue a stranded player after a battle. Those that dosent manage to get in another ship will self destruct in someway and as #1, accept the casualty. I find it hard to believe that a majority of 1 million players will find it acceptable to be hanging around in space for 15 mins, just staring at the screen waiting for a pick up, that also will be griefed to death by horny 14 year olds guys with rich dads buying the largest ships. The real playing world is just not that romantic, hence why "griefing" became a word in the first place after WoW launched.

#3: Being the hero.
Reality: Only the ones that quit their day job, use 23 hours a day in the game, and are available 25 hours a day on the cell phone, will ever be a name in this game (unless ure a dev). A normal causal player will never have a shot of controlling vast networks of ships, industry or the likes. Its all natural. The more time u spend ingame, the better the status you will get ingame, and unless you kick your wife out, qui your job and withstand a life with no sleep, you will never be the top of anything important, so just deal with it. Its been like this since internet was created.

#4: Exploring
Again, its time that's essential. The ones that can clear their schedule when the game resets for full launch, that pay extra bucks for the best exploring ships and that can be up for 72 hours straight, might have a shot at exploring anything. Other than that, exploring will be NPC based, something everyone can do. And the its not gonna feel special at all.

#5: The full PvEP experience.
Reality: Will never happen. Stop dreaming about the perfect game where you cant be touched in a PvP environment. And especially the really hopeless one that says: "I paid for this game, so I demand to fly safely around to all the systems, but pirates are cool for immersion, so they should be in, I just need a pvp-slider that lets me be untouchable". This is the worst one. Either you embrace the fact that its PvP, and that idiots will take full advantage and make the fight unfair as much an as often they can. And if you don't want to take that risk, then there are plenty of Android apps to suit your needs.

Now, before you start commenting, read the following:
"I hope CIG has some solutions". Cause as I said, I have many of the same hopes and dreams for this game as the most of you. These are worries. The main point of this pessimistic post, comes from the fact that this is a *ta-da* a computer game. We sit in front of a screen, safely in our homes. We are safe, and not in mortal danger, and our brains are to complicated to try and trick with fancy graphics and realistic flight models. We know we are not gonna get hurt in real life, so the motivation will never be there to take the same choices we would if SC was the real life. That is why such thing as repairs, SAR, exploring and PvP are so hard. In real life you wouldn't have a choice. In a game, you can always log off. Therefor, we don't gather intels about our destinations before we head of with a shitload of valuable cargo. That's why we don't bother waiting 10 mins to hire protection and insurance. That's why you never go cautisoly around trying to figure out if the route is safe, or if the target you are attacking is superior to you. Its not worth it, cause you just respawn again and go at it.

My ultimate dream?
That CIG are aware, and are working to counter all of the fears of realism I have listed.

voodoo.child posted:

I am a Romantic Realist...

I agree with many points you make, and real key is that no game can ever be as good as the one that only exists in someone's mind... what people are imagining SC will be, is probably far beyond what it truly will be.

That said... I dare to dream and actually assume for the most part it's all going to come together swimmingly. The main reason for that is a long history with some of the people on this project. The first CR game I played was Times of Lore... that was before Wingcommander... I had it on my C64... Tony Z? Freaking LOVED the Crusader games... etc. These guys have pulled impossible rabbits out of improbable hats many, many times over the decades.

'Impossible' means something different to CIG than to most people.

So based on that track record, I honestly tend to not sweat the details too much and assume that this team is going to give us interesting compelling game play for all of the situations you mention.... will people have unrealistic expectations for some of it? Absolutely, that can't be helped. But at the same time, with this team, I sincerely think it's OK to have ridiculously high expectations.

Knowing some of the names on the project, and seeing resume highlights of others on the team... I honestly hold CIG to a different standard. I have high expectations, but that is only because history with these people has taught me that is OK... even with stupid high expectations, these guys have usually EXCEEDED them in the past. Freelancer was a slight disappointment... but that had everything to do with it never being really finished, and CR leaving after Microsoft 'pulled an EA' on Digital Anvil... I don't blame him for that... and it was still a great game.

In fact, I probably would have been one of those skeptics that was saying this game would never get made, that the scope was impossible etc... that's my inclination, I am a natural skeptic. But this team? I've seen them do the 'impossible' too many times before. Even if CR were the only name I recognized on the team.... what's his batting average releasing games?

I am enjoying watching this project come together... but at the end of the day, CR and company have EARNED a level of trust that no other development studio has from me.

I honestly assume every gameplay aspect you list will come out fine, and be fun to play, in the final game.

That would be naive of me... except, like I said... history. My trust was never given to CR or CIG... but it has been earned.

So I am a realist in that I know that the disconnect between expectation and how people imagine things never quite lines up with reality... but even keeping my feet on the ground, my head is still in the clouds regarding this game.

# ? Jan 27, 2016 03:10

CashEnsign: Feb 7, 2015

Another sheep returns to the pen

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/42so2y/star_citizen_hater_converted/

# ? Jan 27, 2016 03:11

Marching Powder: Mar 8, 2008; stop the fucking fight, cornerman, your dude is fucking done and is about to be killed.

G0RF posted:

effort

never stop doing this poo poo. it's valuable.

# ? Jan 27, 2016 03:16

Matlock Birthmark: Sep 24, 2005; I wanted this to happen!!; Soiled Meat

Mirificus posted:

RSI Forums: Romatics vs Realism (wall of text warning)

Sure is funny reading all these "rawr rawr support CIG" posts after every bit of bad news. Amusing if nothing else, oh and one small thing.

quote:

what's his batting average releasing games?

Well, better than me as someone who doesn't work in games, but pretty poo poo all things considered.

# ? Jan 27, 2016 03:18

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Apr 18, 2024 05:39

Madcosby: Mar 4, 2003; by FactsAreUseless

trucutru posted:

To be fair lately they have been saying that the x feature (private servers, etc) is going to be ready after release. Makes you think.

*head explodes*

*cure for head explosion released before private servers*

# ? Jan 27, 2016 03:20

The Something Awful Forums > Archives > Comedy Goldmine > The Goodmine > Star Citizen: Big MoMA's House

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