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victrix posted:Wait what? When I last played Gold+ edition or whatever, all the expacs did was add more horrible item/crafting/class bloat so everything I found was like a 1% chance of being useful and/or usable. check the source of your quote
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Jan 27, 2016 23:23
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victrix posted:Wait what? When I last played Gold+ edition or whatever, all the expacs did was add more horrible item/crafting/class bloat so everything I found was like a 1% chance of being useful and/or usable. They released the Pilgrim, Juggernaut and Necromancer DLCs. One of the latter two added ammo crafting and I think some re balancing.
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Jan 27, 2016 23:24
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FactsAreUseless posted:What's a good resource for roguelike creation? I don't plan to make one, I'm just curious what goes into building a game like Nethack or Crawl. http://www.roguebasin.com/index.php?title=Articles lots of articles on roguebasin of varying usefulness
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Jan 27, 2016 23:31
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Stelas posted:if your code's designed well it should be relatively simple - you'd just want to make sure that your 'draw everything on the screen' function is totally separate from the rest of your code so that you only have to change one particular bit of code when you want to add something (as opposed to having to find 50 different places you copy-pasted it to) good advice, thank you
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Jan 27, 2016 23:33
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Helical Nightmares posted:They released the Pilgrim, Juggernaut and Necromancer DLCs. More crafting? It's like my own personal roguelike hell.
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Jan 27, 2016 23:35
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madjackmcmad posted:Cryptark is the truth. I know visuals and audio aren't usually a big deal for roguelike fans but the game feels great because of those things. Good times shooting and dodging, nice thinking when you put together your build while trying to achieve the bonus credits offered for gimping yourself. Sold! Mr. Dungeonmans.
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Jan 27, 2016 23:44
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Overwined posted:The notion of paying a surcharge for more procedurally generated content makes me laugh. I'm sure someone will try it some day. Blizzard's Diablo has done it for at least 16 years 
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Jan 27, 2016 23:50
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victrix posted:More crafting? More being able to convert one ammo type into another (which should have been included in the base game to be honest).
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Jan 27, 2016 23:51
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Eonwe posted:good advice, thank you this applies to all code by the way - where possible, try to extract functions you'll use again and again and again and keep them separate. try to make code that can work in any case - rather than give each monster its own block of code to describe its attacks, try instead to make a generic and overriding monsterAttack() function that takes 'str', 'dex', 'dice', 'effect', and/or 'whatever the gently caress else you use' or even that looks them up from a table of stats depending on which monster you called it with. that way if you need to rebalance monsters you can just play with their basic stats and troll.monsterAttack() or whatever should Just Work* * it will rarely be this simple in practice, but initial design should run along these sorts of lines also depending on time constraints, brainstorm first and write down lists of 'bits of code you'll need' rather than trying to just mash on a keyboard and have code fall out because you will absolutely miss stuff
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Jan 28, 2016 00:37
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Tony Montana posted:I'm looking for a sci fi rougelike, I've put a lot of time in Crawl and I like it. space station 13
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Jan 28, 2016 00:59
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Ss13 rules id play it all day if i could
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Jan 28, 2016 01:47
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Stelas posted:this applies to all code by the way - where possible, try to extract functions you'll use again and again and again and keep them separate. try to make code that can work in any case - rather than give each monster its own block of code to describe its attacks, try instead to make a generic and overriding monsterAttack() function that takes 'str', 'dex', 'dice', 'effect', and/or 'whatever the gently caress else you use' or even that looks them up from a table of stats depending on which monster you called it with. that way if you need to rebalance monsters you can just play with their basic stats and troll.monsterAttack() or whatever should Just Work* thank you!
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Jan 28, 2016 01:51
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Angry Diplomat posted:Someone needs to make ShadowrunRL. Does Decker count?
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Jan 28, 2016 02:02
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Eonwe posted:assuming I could get the art created by someone, and I ever decide to make the game I'm thinking of, how hard is it really to implement a tileset rather than ASCII?
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Jan 28, 2016 04:07
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Not really sure if this is the right thread but since the OP said go for it... Have any of you guys checked out Starward Rogue? It's like a hybrid bullethell/roguelike with progression & permadeath. It's made by Arcen and they have a pretty solid track record for supporting their releases. Can consider this a shameless plug but it is a good game, and I'm not the best "plugger" :P Disclaimer: Not an arcen employee/paid person but I've beta tested some of their releases 
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Jan 28, 2016 05:47
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lordfrikk posted:After seeing several positive things about Deathstate I've decided to buy it. After putting in several hours I've finished the game as several characters and I have to say it's not a very good game. The atmosphere and the music is pretty good but that's about it. Player movement leaves a lot to be desired, combined with super narrow levels after the first one make it very frustrating to play smoothly. This game is supposed to be more bullet hell-y than the likes of Isaac and it is but in a bad way. The cramped levels in later areas are chock full of enemies and most if not every single of them is constantly spewing projectiles your way so playing on Desecration is virtually impossible. Desecration is kind of hard mode that has 3 tiers with Desecration 3 being the craziest bullshit. Quoting this as it's part of what led me to buy it literally half an hour ago. I'm enjoying it! A solid cross between Binding of Isaac and the Touhou games, with an aesthetic I dig. Three runs in and I just died to the Crystal Mother - her giant green wave attack got me. edit: Trip report on using the mech that stops time unless you move or fire: oh my gosh, I didn't know it could be done. Tactical bullethell where you can stop and think about how to weave through those patterns. Should I shoot or move further out of the range of that bullet spread? It's a vastly slowed down pace, which I adore. I might not be able get myself to stop using this mech to try the other ones! StrixNebulosa fucked around with this message at 06:19 on Jan 28, 2016 |
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Jan 28, 2016 05:56
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Angry Diplomat posted:Someone needs to make ShadowrunRL. Isnt this literally invisible inc?
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Jan 28, 2016 07:43
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Lilli posted:Isnt this literally invisible inc? Not really at all. Invisible inc's guards are a little too smart, adn the runners are a little too... Idk, they're not ShadowRunners.
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Jan 28, 2016 07:49
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Jan 28, 2016 07:49
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I'm sure someone could manage a decent Roguelike in the SR returns campaign builder if they had enough time and masochism.
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Jan 28, 2016 08:00
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Eonwe posted:assuming I could get the art created by someone, and I ever decide to make the game I'm thinking of, how hard is it really to implement a tileset rather than ASCII? DC:SS's tiles are public domain. So you don't have to convince someone to make art for you in order to have tiles.
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Jan 28, 2016 08:25
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Poison Mushroom posted:I'm sure someone could manage a decent Roguelike in the SR returns campaign builder if they had enough time and masochism. I think there is a mod for Shadowrun Returns that generates "random" runs. Closest I've seen.
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Jan 28, 2016 08:44
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RPATDO_LAMD posted:DC:SS's tiles are public domain. So you don't have to convince someone to make art for you in order to have tiles. Is there a library of public domain tiles somewhere?
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Jan 28, 2016 08:44
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Helical Nightmares posted:Is there a library of public domain tiles somewhere?
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Jan 28, 2016 09:29
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Helical Nightmares posted:I think there is a mod for Shadowrun Returns that generates "random" runs. Closest I've seen.
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Jan 28, 2016 10:52
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lordfrikk posted:So as a perfectly logical being I went and bought another bullet hell-y roguelite, Starward Rogue. https://arcengames.com/great-work-on-starward-rogue-team-now-youre-all-laid-off/
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Jan 28, 2016 11:06
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You'd think after this happened earlier they'd learn how to better manage their money? I mean, Starward Rogue had zero marketing and came out competing against Darkest Dungeon and XCOM 2 among other things. Of course it didn't sell. ... And yet it's a good game, I'm enjoying it, and I'd like Arcen to do well off of it. 
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Jan 28, 2016 11:11
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I had no idea the game was even out, or was a thing, or they were making it, etc. Arcen games are... pretty raw. They always feel more experimental than solid, which can be a good thing, but I think I was put off their work after AI War for a long time, they released a string of games that just felt messy, unfinished, or unfun to me, so I stopped paying attention. And apparently that included not paying attention to them releasing a new game again, oops. Also, not to bag on the polish quality of a tiny company, but they put out some deeply, deeply unappealing products aesthetically. It can't just be a budget issue either, they're consciously choosing art/music/sfx I find anywhere from uninteresting to actively repellant. I can't hold UX design against them, that tends to be a Big Boy forte, but even so... I usually don't like those either It also feels like I'm always reading about Arcen doing very poorly somewhere in the news or forums, which is a real bummer. So much of their success is (was?) tied up in how Steam managed sales and promotions, and without any means of attracting a large base of buyers elsewhere, welp. edit: This reads like I'm slamming Arcen  I think they're a pretty cool company really! They just make decisions that look questionable from over here in my comfy couch that isn't supporting a tiny indie dev company. Like how often do you see the company head posting about a layoff, not the affected employees first? Anyway, maybe I should check this game out, youtube vids don't look that appealing, but if GoonReviews say its solid, maybe there's more there.
victrix fucked around with this message at 11:46 on Jan 28, 2016 |
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Jan 28, 2016 11:38
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victrix posted:I had no idea the game was even out, or was a thing, or they were making it, etc. Apparently the Last Federation did them well enough to have money in the bank, but they turned around and delayed their next 4X over and over and over again, making Starward Rogue instead and hoping it would make enough bank to support them finishing this other game. That's not a sound decision by any means, and I just - I like this company, but they keep making bad decisions. Also, agreed with regards to the aesthetic problems - Tidalis has a terrible look and plot, Shattered Haven looks really low quality, and with the rest of their games you can just feel the indie dev coming off of it. Which, compared to something like Darkest Dungeon and its near AAA mirror sheen - feels amateurish.
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Jan 28, 2016 11:53
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And if you're overly reliant on a solid launch to keep financing your company, releasing it with a bunch of competition with much larger fanbases probably isn't the greatest idea. Eventually word of mouth will get around if your game is good and it'll sell well, but release is about hype, and who the gently caress was hyped enough for a new Arcen game to buy it over DD (either one) or an XCOM2 preorder?
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Jan 28, 2016 12:19
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Yeah but those crappy aesthetics often hide cool games, it's like 80s B-movies : it looks and sounds crappy but it's at the same time appealing and funny just because of it... In their last games, listening to the music in the menus made me want to cut myself, it was so horrible, but at the same time, it's completely unique and funny in a way... It's really a strange company in the gaming business ! Anyway, i was weak and purchased the game just because they whined about it, i hope it's cool...
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Jan 28, 2016 12:20
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Ugrok posted:Yeah but those crappy aesthetics often hide cool games, it's like 80s B-movies : it looks and sounds crappy but it's at the same time appealing and funny just because of it... In their last games, listening to the music in the menus made me want to cut myself, it was so horrible, but at the same time, it's completely unique and funny in a way... It's really a strange company in the gaming business ! StrixNebulosa posted:Also, agreed with regards to the aesthetic problems - Tidalis has a terrible look and plot, Shattered Haven looks really low quality, and with the rest of their games you can just feel the indie dev coming off of it. I don't even think indie dev is fair, Sproggiwood looks bright and sharp, Dungeonmans has rad music and clean graphics and UI. Hell, as much as I don't like it, The Pit is pretty sharp too. And you need only look at DoomRL or even Brogue for examples of super clean presentation on a shoestring budget. These are smaller operations than Arcen (just), so it's not like they can't do something of equivalent production value. ... although I guess TOME kinda leans in that direction, that game is visually rear end
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Jan 28, 2016 13:08
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Yeah, you're right. Arcen Games seems to be determined to hit the kind of low-budget experimental aesthetic that you see in, eh, Spiderweb Software's stuff. (Thinking of Geneforge specifically and that's super old!) It feels like the company needs some different people to help them nail a more professional feel + survive financially. It's more likely they'll limp along until final death, though, which is a shame as I don't think anyone else makes quite the same games they do.
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Jan 28, 2016 13:24
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You're definitely right about the graphics, they tend to range from eyesore to acquired taste for me. That said, I think Starward Rogue doesn't really suffer from this problem anymore. I can't imagine what that game would look like with a Blizzard or Valve (if they were still making games! har har) level of polish, though (and marketing  )
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Jan 28, 2016 14:01
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I think the issue with most of Arcen's games is less one of aesthetic, and more that they're just not tactile. For all the numbers and sprites whizzing around in something like A Valley Without Wind, it somehow feels less solid and grounded than, say, Dwarf Fortress. That's saying something, considering that it's meant to be a platformer - a genre entirely built around mass and motion. Even Starward Rogue falls into that pit to a degree - it's a bullet hell shooter, but nothing seems to be actually hitting anyone. There's no feedback, no mass, nothing for the mind to hold onto. This isn't nearly as much of an issue in AI War and The Last Federation, as space combat can get away with some level of abstraction and you don't really expect to feel the impact of every shot when there's 3000 ships fighting it out, but for anything more zoomed in, they seem to hit this brick wall of not quite knowing how to make things touch and connect.
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Jan 28, 2016 14:45
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I'd like to know more about the changes to steam he mentioned that made things harder for them
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Jan 28, 2016 14:59
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lets hang out posted:I'd like to know more about the changes to steam he mentioned that made things harder for them there are literally thousands more games on steam than a few years ago, and they release at a significantly faster pace. Steam used to be an indie dev's magic ticket. It isn't anymore. See: Sproggiwood (I haven't played this arcen game but I guarantee Sproggiwood is better than anything Arcen games has made)
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Jan 28, 2016 15:03
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Helical Nightmares posted:Is there a library of public domain tiles somewhere? there are public domain/free game graphics out there. you might just have to start digging around on game making websites though, which isn't ideal but depending on what you need might work OK.
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Jan 28, 2016 15:09
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Arcen did about as close to nothing, to the point of almost being intentional about it, when it came to the launch and run up to the launch of Starward Rogue---Things Changed and all, but even I can't muster up all that much sympathy when it comes to even as basic a thing as using your damned Twitter. It is a comparable, though different, fumbling to the AVWW debacle---which is even more inscrutable given they weathered the AVWW debacle and thus should've be more savvy versus such. If you swing for the king in Isaac, you have to at least make an effort higher than Full Mojo Rampage did back in the day(as in a bad one) before they fell off the face of the earth and only now are dallying with a console port and presumably a mix of Try Again/Continue? on the PC. This was just thrown out there, with ample overtly unfinished bits at that(the damned credits screen wasn't even fully situated upon a win), with the expectation for magical something something to carry the secretly imperiled day despite conventional wisdom and trends for the past year+ easy---the hell folks? AI War was a mix of timing and luck for them---to say the grains have slipped from between their fingers ever since would be extremely generous.
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Jan 28, 2016 16:16
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Dominic White posted:That's saying something, considering that it's meant to be a platformer - a genre entirely built around mass and motion. Even Starward Rogue falls into that pit to a degree - it's a bullet hell shooter, but nothing seems to be actually hitting anyone. There's no feedback, no mass, nothing for the mind to hold onto. I have noticed that, the hit detection on your guy is .. weird. And feedback is awful. I often cannot tell when/if I'm being hit, even if it's obvious to me that I should be. Spikes are similar. It should be *readily* obvious when I step on spikes. But it's not.
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Jan 28, 2016 16:29
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