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MarquiseMindfang posted:I hope you're going to do what I think you're going to do. If you think he's going to do what I think you think he's going to do, I hope he doesn't, for reasons I'll explain when it's no longer spoilers.
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Jan 29, 2016 05:39
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MarquiseMindfang posted:I hope you're going to do what I think you're going to do. I think what you think he thinks isn't probably what he's going to do. What I think he thinks he's going to do is something more related to the "Afterlife" Bell.
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Jan 29, 2016 06:03
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I honestly have very little recollection of what happens in the Labyrinth from this point on (though I did make sure to verify where exactly the point of no return is so I don't pass it by accident before I have a chance to put the final decision to vote), so my intent actually is to punch stuff a lot, with maybe exploring and refreshing my memory as secondary objectives. :3 That said, thinking about it now, we might actually go through Yurakucho Tunnel first even if only to get things rolling on the, uh, time-sensitive event there. I'm not sure yet. Llab posted:This update was pretty intense. Futomimi might not have been human, but he's been very decent to us, which is more than we can say about any of our former friends and other humans(I'm assuming everyone here is done with any bullshit Reasons that are left for us to choose.) I'm assuming once Shikawa's god is summoned, we'll pretty much be ready for the endgame? There's no more fiends left to beat up, either. Yeah, we're pretty close to running out of mandatory main story dungeons, but considering how Serious Business they are, I'd say we still have a good chunk of game left. I don't recall exactly how long they are, but I suspect one of them won't fit in a single reasonably-sized update. Mifunashiro was short and simple, but that's the calm before the storm. Of course, we still have the remaining Kalpas to go through, and there's at least one other optional location I can think of. FredMSloniker posted:So we're officially locked out of two endings at this point, right? More than that actually, but I shouldn't go into details right now for reasons that will probably become clear at some point. But at this moment, even I don't know which of the remaining endings we'll get, so there's definitely room for choice left. Shitenshi posted:On the other hand, if the pacifistic Futomimi had managed to kill Chiaki, and he is surprisingly tough, even stronger than the bloodthirsty Sakahagi, would the rest of the angels bow to him seeing their beloved leader dead at the feet of someone stronger or would they turn on him anyway out of some strange sense of loyalty to their dead savior? The latter option has no place in Yosuga, ironically enough, for all that they revere her, and because of his strength, if he willed just living peacefully, they would be honor bound to obey. That's assuming the angels have any code of honor, especially after ganging up to slaughter a bunch of helpless Manikins, instead of actually proving their strength by redeeming their honor against Nihilo. That's a good question. But I suspect the angels are following Chiaki not because she's strong (though she definitely is), but because she's the origin of the Reason that gives them the biggest boner. If Futomimi beat her before Baal Avatar showed up, I think that would just have ended Yosuga right there, the remaining question would have been "can Manikins actually create their own Reason?", and the angels would probably have gone back to doing whatever they were doing before Chiaki and Gozu-Tennoh hooked up. Shitenshi posted:And Baal Avatar is always one scary looking bitch. Isamu beat the others to the punch in summoning, but they're still getting their chance. Noah looks like a simple lump that would rest in its own corner of smug self-satisfaction while Baal Avatar looks ready to fight. Right, Baal Avatar hits those old cosmic horror themes of this glorious, proud, immensely powerful entity, that has not one smidge of mercy or compassion and just doesn't give one half of one poo poo about anything it can kill, which is a lot. Man this gets me wondering about the alternate universe LP where we're straight going through the Yosuga path. Zed'd probably be calling her his beautiful mighty goddess or something like that.  : Aw man what, why are you even saying that stuff? I think I'm gonna puke. : Dude, the Internet's a big place. I'm sure there's a forum out there that would have voted for it. : Not helping!
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Jan 29, 2016 07:07
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I just noticed you don't have Platinum, Frank, or I'd PM you about the endings that remain.
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Jan 29, 2016 07:18
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Don't forget to update the TOC on page 1 when you have the time Frank.
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Jan 29, 2016 11:54
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cdyoung posted:I think what you think he thinks isn't probably what he's going to do. What I think he thinks he's going to do is something more related to the "Afterlife" Bell. See, that bell is what I was hoping this was all going to be about, actually! Gosh, this is all so cryptic.
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Jan 29, 2016 12:37
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FrankZP posted:
Aside from that, I don't know if it's just me, but Avatar Baal's body looks like it's made out of the Nihilo's base architecture. Not sure what to make of that... Miacis fucked around with this message at 15:39 on Jan 29, 2016 |
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Jan 29, 2016 13:41
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FrankZP posted:I honestly have very little recollection of what happens in the Labyrinth from this point on (though I did make sure to verify where exactly the point of no return is so I don't pass it by accident before I have a chance to put the final decision to vote), The exact point of no return for what you are thinking of is standing on the elevator that leads to Lucifer at the end of the fifth Kalpa, which is immediately after the hallway you first saw after becoming the Demi-Fiend and fighting the tutorial fights. Furthermore, you are locked out of the Lucifer ending after you step inside the final Kagustuchi tower for the first time.
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Jan 29, 2016 14:36
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FredMSloniker posted:I just noticed you don't have Platinum, Frank, or I'd PM you about the endings that remain. Sorry mang, I gotta be real careful with my dinero these days. :3 Gideon020 posted:Don't forget to update the TOC on page 1 when you have the time Frank. Oooh, dang, thanks for the reminder. I guess Futomimi's passing perturbed me more than I thought! MarquiseMindfang posted:See, that bell is what I was hoping this was all going to be about, actually! I vaguely remember what the bell refers to but every detail surrounding it is lost to the mists of memory, so I guess it's just as well, heheh. Miacis posted:Dionysus is a cool bro with a badass design and a fun unique skill in Wine Party. I hope we'll get to see his animations and hear his voice clips somewhere down the line. Dionysus is replacing Kushinada as our Life Drain-equipped healer, so I'm sure we'll see him in action before long. As for the concentric circles, they might be more related to the markings on Uzume's legs and fans, which I think would make them glorious sun discs, whereas on Shijima structures they're probably representing the Buddhist concept of the wheel of Samsara, which is to say the cycle of reincarnation, despite how Hikawa's efforts are a gruesome perversion of that entire worldview. ModeWondershot posted:The exact point of no return for what you are thinking of is standing on the elevator that leads to Lucifer at the end of the fifth Kalpa, which is immediately after the hallway you first saw after becoming the Demi-Fiend and fighting the tutorial fights. Furthermore, you are locked out of the Lucifer ending after you step inside the final Kagustuchi tower for the first time. Right, that's what I gathered, but it's good to have additional confirmation!
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Jan 29, 2016 17:22
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Goddammit Chiaki.
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Jan 29, 2016 18:34
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And this is why we punch angels until they die. Seriously, gently caress Law/Yosuga, no matter what SMT you play, angels are giant dicks and deserve their wings plucked off one feather at a time if they're not on your team.
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Jan 29, 2016 21:36
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Kemix posted:And this is why we punch angels until they die. Seriously, gently caress Law/Yosuga, no matter what SMT you play, angels are giant dicks and deserve their wings plucked off one feather at a time if they're not on your team. I second this motion wholeheartedly. I was kind of surprised to see the archangels at this point, but looking at your level again, that's around the right time for them to show up. Also, apparently Gabriel is been depicted with feminine features, and SMT seems to go back and forth on whether Gabriel is a masculine or feminine angel.
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Jan 29, 2016 22:55
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I'm pretty sure Manikins can't find their own Reason. For all that this whole affair is supposedly about people finding their own Reasons, the caches of Magutsushi each seem to favor certain approaches. And the Manikins' role is to hold onto Magutsushi until someone with a Reason that involves breaking their faces rolls up and steals it.
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Jan 30, 2016 00:14
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ManlyGrunting posted:Well, there goes another ally. They say that all of the reasons are LAW based but I don't know, it seems pretty survival of the fittest CHAOS to me. It's almost as if the endgame for both sides were practically identical or something. Yosuga is still LAW since it's playing within the rules that God has stated. Chaos is rejection of the rules. Neutral will be explained in time.
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Jan 30, 2016 18:04
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mauman posted:Yosuga is still LAW since it's playing within the rules that God has stated. Shitenshi fucked around with this message at 23:18 on Jan 30, 2016 |
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Jan 30, 2016 23:15
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Shitenshi posted:A lot of people get that all the Reasons are technically Law, but merely stating that while ignoring some of the blatant similarities each of the three has to the traditional SMT alignments only makes it a banal truism. Especially with how each of the three Reasons are represented by the exact opposite demons you'd expect, they definitely come off as deliberate satires of Law/Neutral/Chaos and expose their dark sides. I suppose it could be said that they all capture fundamental parts of Law (Shijima=Peace, Yosuga=The fist to enforce that peace against any actual or so-called deviants for whatever the powers that be deem to be, Musubi=Absolute sovereignty of the relatively privileged people to do whatever they please within the confines of the limited paradise they live in), but sticking to that reading alone is both Law-centric and strips each of the Reasons from the ironies in how they come to be as well as the types of followers who flock to them in the first place, not even getting into just how twisted each Reason would fully play out in any setting, even beyond the poo poo of the Vortex World. This is pretty true. If one breaks them down into proper alignments. Then the three reasons are the following: Shijima: Law-Law Mubushi: Law-Neutral Yosuga: Law-Chaos They're all still LAW because they're all using the Great Will's rules to define their world, but each world is not a world of Absolute Law, aside from Shijima mostly because of it's adherence to the eradication of free will and emotion.
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Jan 31, 2016 05:53
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I'd say it largely depends on your perspective. If you're from a position inside of a Vortex World looking at your options for the next cycle, then yeah the Reasons are vastly different in traditional alignment. But if you're in a position outside of any Vortex World looking at the entire Amala Universe over a long period of time, then they're all fundamentally the same in the grand scheme of things, and the only Chaos entities are the ones who would throw a wrench in the whole system. Neither perspective is incorrect, and in fact even Lucifer, who is clearly espousing the latter perspective, still leaves it to us to decide for ourselves what's more important to us even if that would mean us choosing the former.
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Jan 31, 2016 06:26
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FrankZP posted:I'd say it largely depends on your perspective. If you're from a position inside of a Vortex World looking at your options for the next cycle, then yeah the Reasons are vastly different in traditional alignment. But if you're in a position outside of any Vortex World looking at the entire Amala Universe over a long period of time, then they're all fundamentally the same in the grand scheme of things, and the only Chaos entities are the ones who would throw a wrench in the whole system. Neither perspective is incorrect, and in fact even Lucifer, who is clearly espousing the latter perspective, still leaves it to us to decide for ourselves what's more important to us even if that would mean us choosing the former. By the by, SMT Lucifer is a pretty chill dude most of the time (When he isn't in the guise of a little girl in a space-time anomaly, but we don't talk about that incarnation) and is fine (for the most part) when the time for allegiances come around and you have to pick sides of the conflict. Even if you're on opposing sides to his ideals, he'll still treat you like a worthy foe and fight you fairly for his ideals in the grand scheme of things, definitely an SMT entity I'd go out with for a coffee and chat with, even if I'm in the camp of "gently caress all y'all, I'mma make the world a place where humans make their own drat world with their own hands, we don't need no gods or masters!" Kemix fucked around with this message at 07:33 on Jan 31, 2016 |
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Jan 31, 2016 07:31
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Kemix posted:By the by, SMT Lucifer is a pretty chill dude most of the time (When he isn't in the guise of a little girl in a space-time anomaly, but we don't talk about that incarnation) and is fine (for the most part) when the time for allegiances come around and you have to pick sides of the conflict. Even if you're on opposing sides to his ideals, he'll still treat you like a worthy foe and fight you fairly for his ideals in the grand scheme of things, definitely an SMT entity I'd go out with for a coffee and chat with, even if I'm in the camp of "gently caress all y'all, I'mma make the world a place where humans make their own drat world with their own hands, we don't need no gods or masters!"
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Jan 31, 2016 16:11
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Sylphosaurus posted:Isn't Lucifer basically cool with this option as well in most of his SMT incarnations? Yeah very much. He's cool with anything as long as you choose it of your own will. Which does mean he's the most benevolent, or rather most humanist, of the big movers and shakers of the SMT world.
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Jan 31, 2016 16:20
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He wasn't that chill in SMT1 where in the last floor of the Chaos section of the final dungeon, where he said you should visit an island outside of the dungeon and said there would be a powerful weapon but it's actually Beelzebub sent there to kill you.
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Jan 31, 2016 18:01
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Did he actually say that the weapon was for you to use?
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Jan 31, 2016 18:15
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Rigged Death Trap posted:Yeah very much. True, but he does have an unhealthy habit of deciding that total, absolute anarchy where the world is covered with demons is obviously what's best for humanity and clearly what they would want anyway, right? Fact of the matter is, though, when the guys in Law are regularly massive loving pricks that want to totally enslave humanity, it makes Lucy's position seem a lot nicer...
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Jan 31, 2016 19:10
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SkinCrawling posted:He wasn't that chill in SMT1 where in the last floor of the Chaos section of the final dungeon, where he said you should visit an island outside of the dungeon and said there would be a powerful weapon but it's actually Beelzebub sent there to kill you. Look man, he's the Prince of Lies, and he has monthly quotas. You could handle it.
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Jan 31, 2016 19:25
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I think the core of Lucifer's whole thing is that he respects free will and he's extraordinarily patient because his only hope of victory is playing the long game, but he still has goals, he still has plans, he always has pieces on the board, and he really doesn't like to lose.
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Jan 31, 2016 20:10
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FrankZP posted:I think the core of Lucifer's whole thing is that he respects free will and he's extraordinarily patient because his only hope of victory is playing the long game, but he still has goals, he still has plans, he always has pieces on the board, and he really doesn't like to lose. This, pretty much. With the tendency of the best option in SMT games being 'gently caress you all, put this poo poo back the way it was' it seems that the protoganists rather consistently choose their free will. Lucifer has his own idea, but he does understand corruption better than anyone else. The long con of corrupting said will is his best shot, and is supportive of stalling for time as long as it's not total law enslavement.
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Jan 31, 2016 21:57
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The obelisk was annoying enough a level to finally make me figure out fusions other than "fuse my knuckles with your face" and now I have this fellow: Mana Refill has spread through my ensemble like an STI through a summer camp and with fusing in Makatora I now have a perpetual motion machine. It dispenses pain.
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Jan 31, 2016 23:06
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ultrafilter posted:Did he actually say that the weapon was for you to use? Well, you unlocked Baelzebub afterwards for fusion which was the highest level demon in SMT 1 so technically he wasn't lying.
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Feb 1, 2016 00:36
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Chaos is appealing if only because the strongest can fight for their own utopia and crush any evildoers, but at the same time the devil himself is the elephant in the room. Kind of like how Law guarantees paradise, yet you are completely bound to obey YHVH's law no matter what, isn't the caveat of Chaos being that if there is a strong stable order devoted to peace and protecting the innocent, then Lucifer will deliberately smash it down no matter what because it fits his narrow definition of stagnation? The old world itself was pretty chaotic, not in spite of but because it was ruled by powerful and corrupt nations, and even that wasn't good enough for the violent Gaians.
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Feb 1, 2016 02:28
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The Caveat for Chaos is that the strong are the upper class and the weak are the lower class, It holds no distinction if a strong person losing to a weak person. They simply change class. Every one it out for their own lordship.
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Feb 1, 2016 04:41
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Lunar Suite posted:Mana Refill has spread through my ensemble like an STI through a summer camp and with fusing in Makatora I now have a perpetual motion machine. It dispenses pain. The satisfaction of crafting a well-oiled death engine of a party is real. And the MP recovery skills are really the unsung heroes of Nocturne; the peace of mind they afford you is unmatched, especially considering how long some of the dungeons get.
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Feb 1, 2016 07:09
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: Guys, I'm not gonna lie, I don't feel like hanging on to those Candelabra any longer than I have to. : They are no longer a threat to you. : We are all vainquished.: Yeah, but... : You're curious about what's going on in the Labyrinth, aren't you?: Aren't you?: Yeah, sure. But, I don't know if going there has ever been a good idea. : IT HAS GRANTED US VALUABLE KNOWLEDGE. : Sounds like the monkey lost his nuts!: Yuck it up, tipsy. If the boss wants to go down there, I'm going down with him. But we can't forget we have other problems here too. : Either way, it's kind of a long walk back to Ginza, isn't it? Can't we keep going until we find another terminal at least?: Hmm. Yeah, good point. Alright then, let's get a move on. And keep an eye out, we don't want to stumble on Nihilo's rear guard if we can help it.  *: Unlike the other stations we've visited, there are two staircases down here.  The western one takes us to a well lit platform...  ...while the eastern one plunges us into darkness.  There's no way to tell which one will take us towards the Diet Building, so we might as well start with the eastern one. We run into fights with Loki, Quetzacoatl and Shiki-Ouji down here. A few Cubes around the area get us a Muscle Drink, a Bead, a Medicine, and an encouter with four Loa. The Blessed Fan actually takes a couple of them out! They drop an Attack Mirror.  Both sets of stairs leading to the eastward tunnels are blocked off, so we retrace our steps towards the first lit platform. Boy am I glad I decided to look at this side first! On the way back, Horus levels up through Watchful; he learns Mediarama, replacing Liftoma, and Mana Gain transforms into Mana Surge (+30% max MP).    : I just saw a human woman! She was headed for Kasumigaseki. She was creepy, like she was possessed by something... She was hot, though! : Is Ms. Takao going after Hikawa herself?: I want to say that's crazy, but maybe Aradia has a plan.: You really believe that?: ...I don't know.*: As usual, there are two tunnels leading westward. I choose the northern one. Here's to hoping we get the dead end with loot first!   A dead end with a spirit, I'll take it.  : Ah, right, I've heard about you. Find anything good? : After years a pokin' around, I finally located the treasure right here! But... The earth here's as hard as a rock turtle with frostbite! So, I can't dig, ya dig?: Wouldn't a frozen rock turtle be especially brittle?: Don't even, it's not worth the trouble.: ............!! Ya got demons with ya!? Hoo-doggie! Could ya spare one a them demons a yers? If ya do, I promise ta split the treasure with ya!: Ehh, I don't know... : There's a sentence I never thought I'd hear. Anyway, I admit I'm curious.: Really!? Hoo-doggie! Thanks! *whistle* : I don't know if you've noticed, but I'm a bird.: Yeah, no.: *whistle* How about Black Rider?: I'm not lending you Famine just so you can put a pickaxe in his hands. He may be a schmuck, but he's a prestigious schmuck.: I appreciate the compliment, sir.*: Shige pretty much goes through all your allies one by one; I suspect the developers didn't want to make a demon selection interface just for this one guy. I'll spare you the repetition.  : Hmm, that might actually not be a bad idea. What do you think, big guy?: Yeah, sure, no problem, I'll have this done in a jiffy. Are you going to be alright without me?: To be honest I'd rather keep you around, but there might be something cool in here.: Well, I'm up for it.: It's settled, then. You got your worker.: Whoa! This one's as ornery as a bobcat with his tail on fire! : I'm sure I don't want to know how you came across that information.: Look forward to ma results!: Aight, I'll be checking in again in a bit. See ya later, sport!: Later, boss man.*: We return to the platform and take the southwest tunnel this time. We run into an obnoxious amount of five-Quetzacoatl groups; let's just say it helps to have three allies immune to physical damage and Death effects. Wu Kong learns Hassohappa, a group-targeting physical attack that scales off HP. I let it replace Sukukaja, since Black Rider has us covered there.    : It's a maze in there. Plus, there are steep slopes. You'll slide right down to the bottom! If you jump in unprepared, you might die of starvation, or worse...: I appreciate the heads-up, but I really can't turn back. : Or, uh, maybe I can. Just this once.*: This is in fact a Large Terminal, and we head to Ikebukuro to heal up, register, and shop. Asakusa isn't a safe place anymore, and we used up a bunch of Mazio Stones against the Quetzacoatl hordes, so I figure it won't hurt to stock up on attack items again before we head to the Labyrinth. We had nine Tickets to begin with and we spend enough to get eleven more; picking the white box twice earns us Strength and Vitality Incense! That should be preparation enough; we drop a save and warp to the Labyrinth. We could use the shortcut to the third Kalpa, but I want to hear what Kamala has to say now that Dante's the only Fiend left.   : You don't have to worry about them anymore! Yay!: That's great news! Thanks Kamala, you've been a big help.: I, um...: Shhh.*: As we cross the Third Kalpa to reach the remaining pedestals, it occurs to me to visit the last Luck door we couldn't open before... and it opens! We have 22 base Luck at this time, so the break point is probably at 20. Behind we find a Burial Chamber for Ongyo-ki, Mara, and Black Frost. There are also Chests containing Strength Incense and a Great Chakra. And that's all for the northern branch!   : The Emperor has returned!!: Eh wot?: I want his autograph, hee ho, so I'm gonna go look for him!!: COULD HE MEAN...?: Probably. I guess this is where plans to become evil will take you.: What does that say about us?: ... : Well, we can leave whenever we want. That must count for something.: Yeah.  quote:Lv47 Deity Atavaka *: We've used up a fair bit of Gogmagog and Titania's MP getting down here, so I ask Dr. Dark for a 5k full heal.  : Yikes! We'll do without for now, thanks.: Whatever happened to all the money, I wonder?: Very funny.*: Yeah, dude's hiking up his rates. We could afford it, but I think we'll be fine at the moment.   quote:Lv45 Kishin Mikazuchi *: I'm a little surprised to see new demons down here, but the Kalpas actually scale with your level somewhat and tougher opponents start appearing as you grow stronger. I'm sure this is to make it harder if you decide to wait until the endgame and clear the Labyrinth all at once.  Pale Rider, Mother Harlot, Trumpeter. Majesty, Beauty, Godliness. And Sovereignty is mine to keep.    : I know.: Not only is it dangerous, it's VERY dangerous!!: That's okay, so am I.: I mean, it's EXTREMELY dangerous!!!: Dude, I'm not leaving.: If you still insist on going, I won't try to stop you, but... Make sure you go straight. Don't ever, ever turn left! Okay?: Uh... sure.: ...Please believe me.: Alright. Oh crap. Well. He did say it would be EXTREMELY dangerous.  *: We have an opportunity to go left. We don't take it.    The color scheme feels like less immediately gross and unpleasant than the third Kalpa's, but it does kinda feel like someone set a bunch of fires in the first Kalpa and didn't mind the smoke damage.  Ah, okay, we're back to looking pretty gross.  We have more choices here, but I'm gonna keep going as far right as I can.   quote:Lv55 Holy Chimera    : It's only a short distance to the other side, but every time you enter, you end up somewhere else... You'll see what I mean once you try it yourself... No pain, no gain. Let's go.   Hell's Vault, eh? *: Trying to use the automap button returns a "It can't be used here." message. Whuh oh.    Teleporters, and no automap. Glorious.   quote:Lv63 Raptor Gurr   quote:Lv63 Haunt Rakshasa *: In addition to these new guys, we keep running into lesser Haunts like Pisaca, Legion and Yaka, so the Blessed Fan keeps coming in handy. Zed levels up, masters Satan and learns its final skill, Deadly Fury, a group-hitting physical attack with a high critical chance. We replace Xeros-Beat with it; it has served us well for a long time, but it was really time for an upgrade. Next on the list will probably be Miasma, so we can upgrade Shock to Glacial Blast. It should also tip our alignment to Dark so we can open that one door in the third Kalpa. Aaanyway. The aforementioned teleporter sends us to a room with four dead ends and a Chest containing a Bead of Life. Going to the western dead end warps us to a room that looks a lot like the entrance to the Twelve Meters of Eternity...  Ah.  : If you want to go back, then return through the 12 Meters of Eternity. It's really strange... From the other side, the phase of Kagutsuchi determines where you'll end up, but from this side, you can only return to the entrance.*: This'll require further exploration for sure, but I'm curious about that ladder here.    : I am, but not nearly enough for this!  : It looks like you can get to the other side from the Kalpa above, so...: Huh, really? Well this'll be annoying.: Why don't you try to make your way across?: I bet it's that golden door we couldn't open. There's one behind the switch here too, see?: Ah, you're right. We just need to find the key, then.*: Apart from small room with a Tetraja Rock and a locked gate, there's nothing else down here. We gotta hit the Twelve Meters again.  Welp, here goes nothing.  *: Hell's Hall, this time. We can't use our map again.  Oh balls. *: We use a Repulse Bell right away, and start heading east. This area seems pretty huge! The first door we encounter looks like it would take us to the Twelve Meters again, so we turn back and keep exploring.   : Well, the sooner we kick his rear end the sooner we can get out of here, hopefully. : BE CAREFUL!! Great, I'll add it to the pile.  : Gaaaah, sure, fine. Here.*: Restoring our HP in here is a silly proposition, but we could use a MP refill if the leader of this place is close by.  The other doors here so far have been the same blue swirly type that we first saw in the third Kalpa, but this one is the red pulsating type. Hmm!  Wicked King's Hall. Welp!  > Will you enter? It's that or walking back through that awful place. We go forward.  Cutscene + Boss battle: The Wicked King: Holy crap! High fives!: Aw yeah!: MARVELOUS!: Kid, I owe you all the drinks.: Well, I-: Haha, gimme a hug, you bony bastard!: Ah? H-hey!: I take back every time I've called you a schmuck. : I don't mean to cut the celebration short, but... What's with this "creating a demon" business?: There's an excellent question.: Hmm. I suppose that is worrying. Yo, Riders, you know anything about that?: Uh...: Everything Lord Beelzebub told you is correct. Beyond that, we could not say.: ...right.: You could not say, huh? Because you don't know, or because someone ordered you to keep quiet?: ...: Well...: How useless you both are!: Hey, that's a little harsh.: THERE ARE POWERFUL FORCES INVOLVED HERE, AND WE ALL HAVE A ROLE TO PLAY.: To hell with that! Speak up before I shove my staff where the sun don't shine!: Wu Kong, stand down!: But...!: I know how you feel, but if they can't tell us, they can't tell us. We'll just have to find someone who can. And if we don't like their answer... : We shall give them a right good thrashing!: We shall give them a right good thrashing.quote:Tyrant Beelzebub *: The first obstacle to whittling down Beelzebub's 16000 HP is that he reflects Expel and Death, nullifies ailments, and resists everything else except fire. The second obstacle, of course, is that he fights back. His signature move is Death Flies, which instantly kills all opponents who are not immune to Death effects and inflicts a fair chunk of Almighty damage to everyone else. He also knows Dekaja, Dekunda, Mazionga, Mazanma, Maziodyne, Mazandyne, Megidolaon, and Focus. Fortunately, he doesn't have Beast Eye or Dragon Eye, and he only has his basic attack to spend the Focus buff on (though he's level 95 with 30 Strength, so it'll still hurt a fair bit). Zed's Focused up Divine Shot is strong enough that it still contributed non-insignificant damage through Beelzebub's physical resistance, but Dionysus's Agidyne and White Rider's Fire Boosted Prominence did most of the heavy lifting, especially when the latter hit twice for around 700 damage total. Besides, using Fog Breath often was essential, as B-bub's Agility is so high that even Prominence has a big chance to miss, and if your healer doesn't get a turn on account of a miss then you might be in big trouble. Makakaja and Tarukaja are nice while they last, but even when they don't last, an icon spent on Dekaja is not an icon spent removing Fog Breath or calling Death Flies. I think I could have been done a little faster and spent fewer MP items if I hadn't been so afraid of a Focused attack that I thought I had to keep Tetrakarn up so much, but otherwise I'd say the battle went about as smoothly as it could.   *: There's another door on the other side of this Hall.  Oh-ho!  Of course.    Not too shabby! But this doesn't seem to get us any closer to the next Kalpa. The key we're looking for must be somewhere else.  Oh hey, the horrible smog is gone. Excellent.  : Yyyyup.: THEN, YOU SHOULD LOOK FOR THE STAR KEY! IT CAN UNLOCK THE GOLDEN DOORS. IT'S SOMEWHERE IN THIS LABYRINTH, WHERE IT USED TO BE CURSED... THERE'S ANOTHER DEMON WHO KNOWS WHERE IT IS. IF YOU CAN GET THE STAR KEY, MAYBE YOU CAN MAKE IT TO THE BOTTOM!: Aight, I'll keep looking, thanks for the hint.*: We make it back to the Twelve Meters without further incident. Let's see if other K phases would take us to interesting places.  1/8th waxing sends us to The Road to Hell. It's a simple descending hallway that looks like it will return us to the Twelve Meters, but...  Hmm.  Yup, that was a hidden passage.  : This is a dead end. You spent all that precious time coming here for nothing.: Dick.: Just so you know, there's a place nearby that looks like a dead end, but you can actually go through it. Have fun looking for it.: I don't care, you're still a dick.*: The only other available path leads to a Deathstone, and...  ...another hidden path. There's only a Burial Chamber behind, for Aciel, Skadi and Albion, so we return to the Twelve Meters. Half K takes us to Hell's Vault again, but we can take a different path. We faff around a bit, finding a Great Chakra and an Attack Mirror, until we're teleported to a room with an actual door... which takes us back to the entrance. Alright, I've had enough of this for now, let's give the Twelve Meters one more go.  2/8th waning takes us to Hell's Maze. Is that a Manikin?   : Once you're inside, you can never get out.: We'll see about that.: But, if you do find a way out, please let me know! *: We have two doors from here. Let's go east first.  We can't go back, but here are two more doors. If we had our automap this would probably be trivial, but I'll just have to draw my own at some point.  : There was a guy who managed to escape this prison, and that's what he used to say. I wonder what he's doing now...Music: Manekata  : Aight, shoot. : Uh... You probably wouldn't know it from the way I've been acting down here, but, yeah, I do. : I've been called worse.  *: We actually run into some Manikin random encounters here too. Strange!  : Do you think he can find his way out of here?: I don't know... He'll probably give up, and then run home and cry about it. *chuckle*: Joke's on you, assholes. I don't have a home.: Come on, he can't do that. Think about it. How can he run home if he doesn't know where the exit is?: Oh... That's true. ...So, this poor demon's lost and he's all alone? How sad. ...Hey, you there. If you wanna go home, head north. You'll find your way out of here eventually. : But, which way is it...? North or south, east or west...? Good luck finding it. By the way, I know exactly where it is. : You might as well give up all hope. Just look at me... I'm going absolutely nowhere... : ...that haircut... : I contributed to society by doing just that. My company grew as a result, and became highly regarded. : If your company is the only aspect of your life worth mentioning, then I assume that it wasn't. : Just when I thought I'd achieved happiness, my fortune collapsed like a house of cards. You should be careful. You never know what tomorrow may bring...  : Have you talked to either of them?: Both, actually.: Oddly enough, it feels like I've met them somewhere before...: That businessman... That was Sakahagi, wasn't it?: Yeah.: He seemed... regretful.: That's unlike him.: IT IS SAID THAT REGRET CAN CHANGE THE NATURE OF A MAN.: Bah, it's easy to be regretful when you've been condemned to eternal torment.: If that was Sakahagi, does that mean the other one was Futomimi?: He didn't strike me as the knife-licking type.: Maybe regret changed him too. : ...Just kidding. You think this is the exit? There was a guy who escaped from here, with something he called the Afterlife Bell. He was saying that the bell has the power to resurrect the dead. If that's true, I wonder if he's come back to life in a cemetery somewhere...: A cemetery, hmm? Not a lot of those left. *: At any rate, we enter the nearby vortex to get the heck out of here. It does return us to the Twelve Meters, but this time we turn back and return towards the Kalpa's entrance; we did pass a number of "left turns" on our way, and maybe they're less EXTREMELY dangerous now that Beelzebub is gone.  : That means the Wicked King has been defeated, but... Who could it have been? ...It wasn't you, was it?: Is that so hard to believe?*: We run into Dr. Dark again up here, but we pass.  : ...then you can call forth the deaths that you have conquered, just as you have created new demons. It all depends on the light of Kagutsuchi, though...  : ...I'll sell you something special. Interested?: Mmmmmaybe.: Here's what I'm selling... ...a demon that wields an assortment of powerful attack spells. It's a charming and dependable companion! I'm asking 50000 Macca. I know it's kinda high, but it's well worth the price... So, you want it?: I got plenty of demons who wield assortments of powerful attack spells. Maybe later, I guess.: That's fine. If you change your mind, feel free to come back anytime.*: This Broker is selling a level 60 Mothman with all Ma-dyne spells, Mahamaon, Mamudoon, Megidolaon and Mana Refill, which isn't too shabby if you want to fuse some of those onto something else, since you can find another Wilder and make an Element out of them, and combine it with another Element to make a Mitama. A Chest in the same room contains a Soma. While we're waiting for full K, Black Rider learns Mana Drain, which will be super helpful, as his skills that make him effective in random battles are very expensive.  : Of course!: I heard that your innate abilities, such as your agility and strength, affect your performance in there. If you plan on collecting Macca in there, then you might want to train yourself first.*: Ooh, right, I forgot about that. If your Agility is at least 15, you get a bit of a maneuverability boost, and I think you need a Strength of at least 15 to break some of the larger obstacles.  : Whuh-oh. : ...Who is he? Sorry, I can't give out his name. But... He's so noble, we call him the Lord of the Flies! I can't stop thinking about him...*: Turning left at the very first intersection leads us to a wide hall with many doors. The first one has 25000 Macca behind, the second one another 25000, the third one is a Burial Chamber for Specter and Sakahagi, the fourth one...  : Ehhh, mostly I guess.: It can take you to different places like the vault or the maze, but... I'm warning you, don't go through it when Kagutsuchi shines the weakest.: Why?: ...Why? Whaddya mean, "Why?"! If you wander into the Wicked King's room, you won't come out alive!: Haha, right, sure.*: ...and the fifth one contains a Deathstone.  I think this whole halllway would have been under the curse if we had come here without taking out Beelzebub first.  : Ha, well said.: It was VERY dangerous!!: Uh...: I mean, it was EXTREMELY DANGEROUS!!!: I KNOW.: ...It's a thing of the past, though.*: We keep climbing out. I'm pretty sure I know where the key is, and I also realize I forgot something important. In the central room of Dante's first maze...   : Heeeeee hoooooo! I guess I'm a little too late.: What the...: I tried so hard to get here, too!  : Yyyyyeah.: The "Emperor of Kabukicho" has finally made his comeback!!: Not the best choice of venue, though.: Um, if you're wondering how I managed to make a comeback... that's a secret.: You have no idea, do you?: Don't ask me why I shrank in size, either. Okay, hee ho?: I couldn't care less, honestly.: Anyway, once again I'm aiming to be the best! If I tag along with you, hee ho, I think I can become super-cool and super-strong!: I... Uh, that's not...: He's not wrong!: Yeah, fair enough.: So, let's go! Heeeeee hoooooo!!  *: Of course he starts at level 66. Black Frost lost his innate ailment reflection and his physical resistance is back to the standard 50%, but he does keep the rest of his immunities, and in fact the last three skills he learns are Void Mind, Void Curse and Void Nerve. Now for the key. We climb further up to the Second Kalpa, and go see that one Efreet.  : You can go now.: Don't mind if I do! *: Indeed, the corridor is back to normal, though the tough random encounters still occur. : You got something for me now?  : My drinking buddy is somewhere up in Tokyo having a drink. He's got the key that opens the golden doors.: Ah. Well, okay, I'll, uh, find him then. Thanks again for the other day!: That's not as helpful as we'd like, in any case.: Eh, there's only one decent bar in this craphole world, so it does narrow it down.: Do you think his buddy could be Loki?: Oh cripes, I hope not.  : Well, not even he can stop our master's plans now.*: That was the Flauros at the entrance to the second Kalpa. He's still talking about the voice we heard the first time we came down here. Anyway, we take the shortcut out of the Labyrinth and warp back to Yurakucho Tunnel.  Hmm, Titan must be doing good work.   : Oooh, good news then.: I owe ya, lil' buckaroo! We'll split the treasure, as promised! There's four chests ahead, so pick two of 'em.  *: Two Chests and two cubes. We pick the two Chests, earning us a Sapphire and a Great Chakra.   : Yer more useful than a cat in a barnyard fulla mice! Here's a little somethin' fer ya! It was in one of ma chests, but I don't reckon I need it. Ya might be able to find a use fer it.> You obtained a Kimon Ball. : Huh... I wonder...*: The Cubes contain 10000 Macca as well as the Kimon Ball; if you pick the Ball you essentially get cheated out of a pick, since Shige'll give it to you no matter what. If we talk to him again... : Hey, uh, where's Titan? : ...what? He died? What the hell, man?: Well, if it's any comfort, he'll be joining his puree'd brothers.*: So, yeah, don't lend Shige a demon you want to get back. Weak demons take longer to dig the tunnel though, so you don't want to cheap out. Besides, you can still get them back from the Compendium if you really gotta. Next time: we find a bar, we find a graveyard, and we unravel the mysteries of the Kimon Ball!
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Feb 1, 2016 07:09
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Ahahaha what a dick move. "Congrats! Here's your treasure. Oh your demon? He dead, haw."
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Feb 1, 2016 07:26
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I love how you can cheese Beelzebub into using spamming Dekunda even when he hasn't been debuffed, just by constantly spamming Tetrakarn/using Attack Mirrors in turn after he uses Focus. I don't know if it's a glitch or the programmers deliberately providing a failsafe to prevent you from softening him up too much when you do decide to let him whack you, but it is convenient enough that he also decides not to use Dekaja at all.
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Feb 1, 2016 07:39
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Man, that's a pretty early kill on Beelzebub, that guy doesn't go down easy. Also, one thing I really like about this game, as weird as it sounds, is the demon size. When you first start out you're a regular human and all your demons are tiny things, so the fact that you don't know what you're doing is sort of compounded because all your allies are little shrimps that don't look like they're going to be much help. Then as the demons get more powerful they get much bigger, and you're still a kind of short shirtless teenager and you're on their level or higher. It's a pretty great way to convey the character gaining strength and raising the stakes, and it makes you feel badass because you've got these hulking twelve-foot colossi on your side and you're the one bossing them around and even outstripping them.
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Feb 2, 2016 01:51
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I'll agree with that. You'd think it'd look goofy, but there's something about the height differences and the way the MC carries himself that actually makes it work. Not to mention having said shirtless teenager turn around and punch a demonic kaiju-sized god fly for 500+ damage.
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Feb 2, 2016 02:07
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Beelzebub really isn't all that bad, but god drat is Death Flies a kick in the teeth the first time you encounter it. Well, he's only testing you anyway.
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Feb 2, 2016 02:12
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cdyoung posted:The Caveat for Chaos is that the strong are the upper class and the weak are the lower class, The actual caveat is that by their own rules, YHVH's rule is just because he's the strongest. They are hypocrites.
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Feb 2, 2016 02:21
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Wait, his lifelong dream was to dig a tunnel in a place that didn't exist until he died?
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Feb 2, 2016 03:51
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Glazius posted:Wait, his lifelong dream was to dig a tunnel in a place that didn't exist until he died?
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Feb 2, 2016 04:08
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