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Ethiser
Dec 31, 2011

It took me a minute to realize what was going on in the last chapter but once I did it blew my mind.

Also I'm glad it looks like the southern people aren't going to be the source of the mystery metal or the Set's evil schemes.

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Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

---FAGNER---
TEAM-MATE
Do you think the Lost Metal could be malatium? It's an Atium alloy, so there's presumably little left. And it was mentioned quite a lot in Secret History. But I'm not quite sure what it could be used for.

rndmnmbr
Jul 3, 2012

I'm pretty sure I figured out how Allomantic FTL travel is supposed to work: Supposing, say that this "ettmetal" can store a virtually unlimited Allomantic charge limited solely by it's weight. A sufficiently large mass could store multiple individuals flaring their metals (or for that matter, even Duralumin-charged metal bursts) for extended lengths of time. You take two of those, load one with duralumin- or nicrosil-pushed cadmium burns, and the other with similarly pushed bendalloy burns. Once in space, make an absolutely massive bendalloy flare, then a smaller cadmium flare encompassing the ship, which should create a bubble of accelerated time with a smaller bubble of slowed time inside for the passengers. Then zip across the accelerated time bubble at some appreciable fraction of c. It should look, to both an outsider and someone in the slowed time bubble, like your ship just ran way faster than lightspeed.

There's a lot of conjecture there, mostly assuming that multiple people duralumin burning the same metal while storing their Identity will contribute to a unified pool, allowing for duralumin burns that last for longer than an instant.


Thoughts?

rndmnmbr fucked around with this message at 00:21 on Jan 28, 2016

Rygar201
Jan 26, 2011
I AM A TERRIBLE PIECE OF SHIT.

Please Condescend to me like this again.

Oh yeah condescend to me ALL DAY condescend daddy.


rndmnmbr posted:

I'm pretty sure I figured out how Allomantic FTL travel is supposed to work

Duralumin is only effective with either a Mistborn or a Hemalurgist, which reduces it's utility sharply. You can probably just sub in Nicrosil Mistings though.

M_Gargantua
Oct 16, 2006

STOMP'N ON INTO THE POWERLINES

Exciting Lemon

rndmnmbr posted:

Thoughts?

Thats still not FTL, its just a long distance traveled in a short time for the passengers. In your system you'd leave Sel and arrive on Scadriel X100 real years later, not very useful. I'm sure cadmium is used to make the trip less arduous for the passengers, just the food savings or the need for less living space is a huge benefit.

OAquinas
Jan 27, 2008

Biden has sat immobile on the Iron Throne of America. He is the Master of Malarkey by the will of the gods, and master of a million votes by the might of his inexhaustible calamari.
Wasn't there a Word of Brandon about overlapping speed bubbles that would prevent that though?

In any case, Sci Fi Scadriel won't be for another 6 years+. Maybe longer since he's now considering doing Shadowrun Scadriel after Reaganomics Scadriel. (era 2.5 to Alloy of Law's 1.5)

Law Cheetah
Mar 3, 2012
An allomancy hack that lets you slip into the Cognitive Realm makes way more sense than any physical spaceship stuff. They all already have FTL travel.

spootime
Oct 31, 2010

Law Cheetah posted:

An allomancy hack that lets you slip into the Cognitive Realm makes way more sense than any physical spaceship stuff. They all already have FTL travel.

Yeah FTL technically exists in the universe already. People like Hoid and Iyatil are capable. Just gotta get a spaceship in there. That being said I hope its actual space ships with badass scifi space fights and poo poo.

How are you guys reading Secret History? Doesn't come out till the 30th on amazon.

spootime fucked around with this message at 15:37 on Jan 28, 2016

Proteus Jones
Feb 28, 2013



spootime posted:

Yeah FTL technically exists in the universe already. People like Hoid and Iyatil are capable. Just gotta get a spaceship in there. That being said I hope its actual space ships with badass scifi space fights and poo poo.

How are you guys reading Secret History? Doesn't come out till the 30th on amazon.

Smashreads. They have the epub for sale early I guess.

MildShow
Jan 4, 2012

spootime posted:

Yeah FTL technically exists in the universe already. People like Hoid and Iyatil are capable. Just gotta get a spaceship in there. That being said I hope its actual space ships with badass scifi space fights and poo poo.

How are you guys reading Secret History? Doesn't come out till the 30th on amazon.

It's available everywhere except Amazon for some reason. I grabbed my copy from the Nook store.

spootime
Oct 31, 2010

flosofl posted:

Smashreads. They have the epub for sale early I guess.

Just bought it, thanks man.

If you guys have been reading on Kindle's, it's really hard to see the newspaper. Heres a full image of the one from Bands of Mourning.

Narmi
Feb 26, 2008

spootime posted:

How are you guys reading Secret History? Doesn't come out till the 30th on amazon.

I got it off kobo.

Rumda
Nov 4, 2009

Moth Lesbian Comrade
Just got bands of mourning this afternoon and one little thing is bothering me I know you shouldn't assume that there using Arabic numerals but how the hell do you mangle a 4 into a 3

OAquinas
Jan 27, 2008

Biden has sat immobile on the Iron Throne of America. He is the Master of Malarkey by the will of the gods, and master of a million votes by the might of his inexhaustible calamari.

Rumda posted:

Just got bands of mourning this afternoon and one little thing is bothering me I know you shouldn't assume that there using Arabic numerals but how the hell do you mangle a 4 into a 3

Doable if you write sloppy and don't connect the left slant to the crosspiece, then curve the bottom a bit. Probably easier to make that error if you're left handed, too (natural curve to that direction).

Also, the cosmere novella just dropped for kindle users!

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE
Aug 1, 2004

whoa, what just happened here?







College Slice

OAquinas posted:

Doable if you write sloppy and don't connect the left slant to the crosspiece, then curve the bottom a bit. Probably easier to make that error if you're left handed, too (natural curve to that direction).

Also, the cosmere novella just dropped for kindle users!

Well I like how definitive the Lord Ruler reveal went. "gently caress this poo poo, I outtie" *drops mic, walks into black hole*

Rygar201
Jan 26, 2011
I AM A TERRIBLE PIECE OF SHIT.

Please Condescend to me like this again.

Oh yeah condescend to me ALL DAY condescend daddy.


broken clock opsec posted:

Well I like how definitive the Lord Ruler reveal went. "gently caress this poo poo, I outtie" *drops mic, walks into black hole*

Rashek is all about the non stop Power Moves. He really owns every scene he's in. I also love how much Leras favored him due to his Shard. That's a good touch

Rygar201 fucked around with this message at 23:35 on Jan 28, 2016

Captain Capitalism
Jul 28, 2009

Just finished the audio book and Secret history and I got to that Bands of Mourning was a ton of fun!

(spoilers for both)

The fact that Michael Kramer gives the Southern people a Swedish accent is kind of awesome, but I was really glad to start to see some pieces falling in place. The Secret History was even more chock full of Cosmere facts, including Hoid's name, or at least one of them. I wish we had more of an idea of how Kelsier came back and a little bit more of the history of the southern people, but there's plenty hook left for the last book. Wish it was coming out in a few months like the wait between the last two, but I'll be happy if Oathbringer comes out sooner because of it.

Rumda
Nov 4, 2009

Moth Lesbian Comrade

Rumda posted:

Just got bands of mourning this afternoon and one little thing is bothering me I know you shouldn't assume that there using Arabic numerals but how the hell do you mangle a 4 into a 3

Actually reading on with numbers in the back of my mind I've realised the chapter symbols are actually probably a base 16 numerical system and assuming simplified every day numerals and your standard sloppy 'filling in petty cash receipts' scrawl it actually works.

eszett engma
May 7, 2013

Rumda posted:

Actually reading on with numbers in the back of my mind I've realised the chapter symbols are actually probably a base 16 numerical system and assuming simplified every day numerals and your standard sloppy 'filling in petty cash receipts' scrawl it actually works.

http://coppermind.net/wiki/Steel_alphabet

Superstring
Jul 22, 2007

I thought I was going insane for a second.

Maaaaan. Kelsier is going to end up being a bad guy isn't he?

RC Cola
Aug 1, 2011

Dovie'andi se tovya sagain

Superstring posted:

Maaaaan. Kelsier is going to end up being a bad guy isn't he?

I hope not

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

---FAGNER---
TEAM-MATE

Superstring posted:

Maaaaan. Kelsier is going to end up being a bad guy isn't he?

It wouldn't surprise me.

So in Words of Radiance, when Szeth died, he probably was in that space-in-between before passing on to the beyond, similar to Kelsier. Since he held quite a bit of power before, he could probably remain longer in that realm than normal mortals. That gave Nalan the time to revive him, right?

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE
Aug 1, 2004

whoa, what just happened here?







College Slice

Superstring posted:

Maaaaan. Kelsier is going to end up being a bad guy isn't he?

Is it kind of implied that he actually started the Set?

Rygar201
Jan 26, 2011
I AM A TERRIBLE PIECE OF SHIT.

Please Condescend to me like this again.

Oh yeah condescend to me ALL DAY condescend daddy.


"[/spoiler posted:

broken clock opsec" post="455599134"]
Is it kind of implied that he actually started the Set?

No, it's implied he ensured the knowledge of Hemalurgy wasn't destroyed by Sazed. While this eventually aids the Set, it's not the same thing as Founding it.

OAquinas
Jan 27, 2008

Biden has sat immobile on the Iron Throne of America. He is the Master of Malarkey by the will of the gods, and master of a million votes by the might of his inexhaustible calamari.
Although it might not be out of the question, though the actions of the Set imply an extra-planetary influence (another Shard or pre-existing worldhopper group). Actually, now that I think about the exact phrasing used at the end of Bands, the Set are the local humans and they are being backed by....something else. "Will not require the full Set hierarchy" implying that either the Set is separate from the group the red-eyed kandra(???) belong to and are just partnered with it, or these are beings are Set members but are influenced or allegiant to some external force.

Kelsier has never been a proper hero. He tried to liberate the skaa primarily to stick it to the man, not because they deserved liberation. He freely fed his people into an allomantic woodchipper in service to his overall goal of offing the Lord Ruler. True, he tried to save what and who he could, but he never flinched from seeing people killed if he felt it was needed in service to his goals.

So that being said, he's now an immortal 'ghost' only able to touch the world via crazy people and hemalurgy. He doesn't see hemalurgy as being evil, since he KNOWS Ruin as an independent force is dead. Who knows how far he'll go over the centuries to see his goals done? What even are his goals, besides the fundamental "SURVIVE" command? When did he get a body to appear to the masked people--was it during the time he was laying low from Ruin?

If his goals were to advance the knowledge and capabilities of Allomantic/Feruchemic power then the Set would actually be perfectly in line with him. But if he did found it for that purpose, its either since been influenced and co-opted by this outside Shard/worldhopper group, or its core goals were twisted and co-opted by the human members (who are now being shanked in turn by this external group).


Oooh, CRAZY theory: the Kelsier/Survivor appearance was Hoid, lightweaving to appear as Kelsier. He can appear in the physical realm, he can alter his appearance, he knows Realmatic theory inside and out to teach them how to make the medallions, and his inscrutable goals could be serviced by a magitechnologically advanced Scadrial. Plus, he was the one who gave the metalmind to Wax.

M_Gargantua
Oct 16, 2006

STOMP'N ON INTO THE POWERLINES

Exciting Lemon

OAquinas posted:

Plus, he was the one who gave the metalmind to Wax.

I think we should start calling them Coppercoins

Mortanis
Dec 28, 2005

It's your father's lightsaber. This is the weapon of a Jedi Knight.
College Slice
Finished Bands of Mourning and Secret History today. drat there's a lot to process.

If Kelsier got his body back to show the southerners the secrets of Allomancy, he's likely still around in some fashion. I really enjoyed Secret History, but that last chapter worried me. Now I feel as if all the cool Lord Mistborn stuff we got to hear about in the W+W books is actually just Kelsier pushing Spook around, robbing him of his agency. He didn't become his own awesome ruler, Kelsier was standing around badgering him all that time.

Based on Bands, I'm guessing FTL is going to be an Allomantic/Feruchemical version of the Alcubierre Drive. Space and time are linked, so compressing time in front of a ship compresses space; expanding time behind a ship expands space.

M_Gargantua
Oct 16, 2006

STOMP'N ON INTO THE POWERLINES

Exciting Lemon
Or travel will just be what the rest of the planet hoppers do, just on an industrial scale. Moving their physical selves through the cognitive realm since there seems to be no real trans-planetary distance there.

OAquinas
Jan 27, 2008

Biden has sat immobile on the Iron Throne of America. He is the Master of Malarkey by the will of the gods, and master of a million votes by the might of his inexhaustible calamari.
Nah, I think it'll be more space opera than Cognitive faux-hyperspace. Now, shadowrun era might have a lot more cognitive shenanigans as they interpret it to be the matrix realm...

Mortanis
Dec 28, 2005

It's your father's lightsaber. This is the weapon of a Jedi Knight.
College Slice
While doing it like Hoid et al do likely is the easiest, that wouldn't make for a book like ALLOMANCERS IN SPAAAAAACE. You need a physical star ship and allomantic-warp-drive or it loses the thematic connection.

I'm all for Shadowrun Realmatic fuckery becoming the Matrix. This needs to happen now.

Evil Fluffy
Jul 13, 2009

Scholars are some of the most pompous and pedantic people I've ever had the joy of meeting.
Bands of Mourning finished. It was interesting though I think Shadows of Self might've been better overall. Character development for people like Steris is always nice though. Starting on Secret History now.

Geisladisk
Sep 15, 2007

Finished Bands of Mourning.

Overall it was enjoyable. It was cool to see Sanderson finally explore what can be done with the weirder metallic powers, like Investiture and Connection - I was really scratching my head about those, after reading about htem in the appendices.

The end left a extremely sour taste in my mouth. Introducing a new Cosmic Enemy Who Wants To Destroy The World in the last ten pages, presumably to set the stage for the final book, is such an obvious afterthought. It's also one of the most common and tired tropes in fantasy literature, and very hard to do properly. It's one of the things which has put me off Jim Butcher's writing in the past few years, because he seems totally incapable of writing a book without reaching for that tired, threadbare trope.

He already explored that trope with Ruin in the first Mistborn trilogy, and did it very well. The second trilogy had so far been on a much more human level, with the struggles being between human adversaries with differing views on the world, instead of a cosmic battle between good and evil. The cosmic battle was taken care of, and now we were exploring what happens after the Angels win, which was, to me, one of the things that made the Wax/Wayne series so very enjoyable. But now, in the last ten pages, as an afterthought, we find out that Suit/Set has been working for this new, spooky Cosmic Enemy this whole time.

It really, really strains the suspension of disbelief that this Red Mist or whatever has been lurking in the background this whole time. Sazed doesn't even mention it in the chapters where he's ascending to become Harmony, despite being a omniscient god-being. Did he just not feel it was important? Until now, the Mistborn world has felt fantastically solid, and consistent - It's felt like a very real world that Sanderson is exploring, instead of making it up as he goes.

Geisladisk fucked around with this message at 10:02 on Feb 1, 2016

Ethiser
Dec 31, 2011

The thing from the very end of Bands has been in every other Wax/Wayne book. The whole Trell thing at the end of the first book and the mystery metal at the end of the second one. It's been building across three books. Also it's not something that is originally from Mistborn world so there was no reason it would come up in the original series. Though I do agree that I liked the idea of the Wax/Wayne books being set on a more personal instead of a cosmic scale.

Geisladisk
Sep 15, 2007

That's correct, also people have since pointed out to me that it's all part of Sanderson's giant meta-series, which apparently encompasses almost all his books, and will at some point intertwine more heavily. I still don't like it. :shrug:

omnibobb
Dec 3, 2005
Title text'd

Ethiser posted:

The thing from the very end of Bands has been in every other Wax/Wayne book. The whole Trell thing at the end of the first book and the mystery metal at the end of the second one. It's been building across three books. Also it's not something that is originally from Mistborn world so there was no reason it would come up in the original series. Though I do agree that I liked the idea of the Wax/Wayne books being set on a more personal instead of a cosmic scale.

Bands:
Trell was one of the religions that Sazed spoke about to Vin or Kelsier during the original trilogy.

Wild speculation based on Secret History:
Kelsier has gone crazy. Kelsier is Trell. Hail Trell.

What I think really happened after secret history:
Kelsier spent 30 years studying metal arts and he's the sovereign in the southern continent and created the bands of mourning.

omnibobb fucked around with this message at 15:13 on Feb 1, 2016

OAquinas
Jan 27, 2008

Biden has sat immobile on the Iron Throne of America. He is the Master of Malarkey by the will of the gods, and master of a million votes by the might of his inexhaustible calamari.

Geisladisk posted:

That's correct, also people have since pointed out to me that it's all part of Sanderson's giant meta-series, which apparently encompasses almost all his books, and will at some point intertwine more heavily. I still don't like it. :shrug:

Yeah, the implication is that Ruin and Preservation were going at it and no one wanted to get in on that action. Once they were both defeated and combined, however, that spooked some of the other Shards (basically gods). It's rumored that the interloper Shard is Autonomy, which would get miffed at all of Sazed's shepherding of humanity. Not sure if he's the one giving the "Wipe them out...All of them" order; we could be seeing several entities trying to mess with the newbie.
After all, Sazed at the time of Bands has only been doing this gig for about 300ish years. Cosmically that's nothing, plus with the way Shards tie themselves down to a planet it can take a while for them to move around. "Colossal Cosmic Beings and How to Avoid Them" would probably be a good book for Sanderson to accidentally write.

Ultimately, I think this is the hook that's going to pull Harmony way into the background. After book 4 there's going to be a time jump for Mistborn of about 100-150 years; the next series is going to be 1980s era. Knowing Sanderson's sensibilities it'll probably be more Wall Street than Scarface, but who knows? Probably 2-3 years for that to kick off though.

Torrannor
Apr 27, 2013

---FAGNER---
TEAM-MATE

Geisladisk posted:

That's correct, also people have since pointed out to me that it's all part of Sanderson's giant meta-series, which apparently encompasses almost all his books, and will at some point intertwine more heavily. I still don't like it. :shrug:

All of Sanderson's books that don't play on Earth or an alternate version of Earth. He's written a lot of those books, but they are more Young Adult.

Evil Fluffy
Jul 13, 2009

Scholars are some of the most pompous and pedantic people I've ever had the joy of meeting.
I couldn't help but notice that in Secret History we get told, among other things, Hoid's real(?) name which was interesting.

e: Finished the novella. It was neat how it tries to tie things in together and I can buy that it's something he'd had as an idea for awhile. Not a great work, but the extra info it gives for Mistborn and the Cosmere in general is nice.

Evil Fluffy fucked around with this message at 03:27 on Feb 2, 2016

aparmenideanmonad
Jan 28, 2004
Balls to you and your way of mortal opinions - you don't exist anyway!
Fun Shoe
Novella: Kelsier figuring out how spren work to some degree was pretty cool. Some of his interactions with characters were alright, but the dialogue was clumsy and forced in a lot of places without his crew there to bounce it off of/smooth it out. I don't have any real complaints though, it worked as a way to get this info to fans of the Cosmere who wanted it.

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Subvisual Haze
Nov 22, 2003

The building was on fire and it wasn't my fault.
As much as I enjoy Sanderson's work, his characters tend to neatly classify as either heroes, well intentioned extremists or sociopaths. Kelsier is actually pretty unique in Sanderson's writing in that he's both a hero and well intentioned extremist.

I don't think though that the Set were founded by Kelsier though. In Alloy of Law, Marsh gives up Spook's diary to Wax/Marasi because he thinks Wax is furthering his brother's work. That wouldn't really make sense if the Set were his brother's work.

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