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turn it up TURN ME ON
Mar 19, 2012

In the Grim Darkness of the Future, there is only war.

...and delicious ice cream.
So this thing came to iPad a few days ago and I've been playing it instead of sleeping. The controls are terrible thanks to the virtual keyboard, but man if the game isn't fun. I haven't even survived for a day yet, though, because I am having such a hard time finding a building that's not infested with zombies. Or maybe it's because I always take a starting dude who has a gun and guns are loud.

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goatsestretchgoals
Jun 4, 2011

One of the recent experimentals combined the UPS and rechargeable battery mods, which is pretty nice.

SquadronROE posted:

So this thing came to iPad a few days ago and I've been playing it instead of sleeping. The controls are terrible thanks to the virtual keyboard, but man if the game isn't fun. I haven't even survived for a day yet, though, because I am having such a hard time finding a building that's not infested with zombies. Or maybe it's because I always take a starting dude who has a gun and guns are loud.

Grab night vision as a perk and sneak around the first few nights. If you see a zombie you don't want to deal with, just move away from it. Stay on the periphery of town at first, downtown areas will have more zombies and any building that takes up more than one tile will have more zombies who are also harder/higher tier on average than the ones you see elsewhere.

E: And yeah, guns are loud as hell. I tend to play melee with a burst fire or shotgun backup as an oh poo poo button. Archery with a melee backup is probably more powerful overall, but it can be a bit more tedious having to go grab all your arrows on a real keyboard, so probably not a good idea on a virtual one.

E2: Forgot about auto-pickup, highlight an arrow/bolt/whatever in the (/) advanced inventory screen, hit (p), and you'll pick them up automatically as you run over them.

goatsestretchgoals fucked around with this message at 08:40 on Jan 21, 2016

CheeseThief
Dec 28, 2012

Two wholesome boys to brighten your day

Have NPCs been updated to need feeding or something? I had a shelter spawn NPC fall stone dead out of nowhere while I was sleeping.

Shady Amish Terror
Oct 11, 2007
I'm not Amish by choice. 8(
I wouldn't know about that, although I think they can be affected by bleeding, radiation, and possibly other chronic conditions which might do them in.

turn it up TURN ME ON
Mar 19, 2012

In the Grim Darkness of the Future, there is only war.

...and delicious ice cream.
I played a few more games last night and got a bit better. Going for black belt with a couple extra points in unarmedcombat, using Muay Thai or whatever, is a pretty good way to go. Of course, as soon as I did that I managed to stumble into a gun shop with all sorts of amazing weapons/modifications/ammo and no where to store any of them, nor any skills to use them.

Angry Diplomat
Nov 7, 2009

Winner of the TSR Memorial Award for Excellence In Grogging
NPCs can definitely fall prey to infection as well as other maladies. They don't seem to be smart enough to do anything about it, so don't get too attached.

Shady Amish Terror
Oct 11, 2007
I'm not Amish by choice. 8(
Not on their own, but you can look at their health, and see if they have infection or bleeding (the wounded part will show up in a different color just as it would for you). If you're on good terms with them, hand them an appropriate healing item to deal with the issue. They're not very good about taking care of themselves, but in my limited experience they will preferentially patch up a wounded part with a bandage, disinfectant, or first aid kit as appropriate.

turn it up TURN ME ON
Mar 19, 2012

In the Grim Darkness of the Future, there is only war.

...and delicious ice cream.
I spent an absurd amount of time trying to fill my canteen from a toilet. Getting water while I had the canteen in my inventory wasn't enough. Wielding the canteen and trying to get the water didn't work. I eventually just drank the toilet water straight from the bowl.

goatsestretchgoals
Jun 4, 2011

SquadronROE posted:

I spent an absurd amount of time trying to fill my canteen from a toilet. Getting water while I had the canteen in my inventory wasn't enough. Wielding the canteen and trying to get the water didn't work. I eventually just drank the toilet water straight from the bowl.

(e)xamine the toilet and the first prompt should be what container in inventory you want to dump 10 units into. If your canteen had clean water in it, the toilet water is (dirty) water and the game won't let you combine them.

RPATDO_LAMD
Mar 22, 2013

🐘🪠🍆
And if you don't like randomly vomiting, there's a crafting recipe for boiling dirty water to purify it.

palamedes
Mar 9, 2008
I've been thinking about guns and reading the source too much so here's

Why You're lovely With Guns or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love The MP7

When you fire a gun, the game rolls a random number based on your dispersion and checks to see if it's less than a target number (4615/range, there's some geometry magic going on). Lower is better, rolls lower than target/10 are headshots. Pretty simple.

But dispersion isn't just gun and ammo dispersion. Here's all the other poo poo. When I say rng(X, Y), I mean a random number between X and Y.
  • Guns and ammo add rng(0, gun dispersion) and rng(0, ammo dispersion)
  • Marksmanship skill adds rng(0, 15*(10 - skill)). Each skill level below 10 adds 15 possible dispersion. Higher than 10 has no extra effect.
  • The gun skill for the weapon you're using adds rng(0, 45*(10 - skill)). Three times as important as marksmanship. Higher than 10 has no extra effect.
  • Eye encumbrance and arm encumbrance each add rng(0, 6*encumbrance). This is huge. Each 10 encumbrance on eyes and arms is like losing two levels in both shooting skills.
  • Dexterity and perception each add rng(0, 15*(12 - stat)). Higher than 12 has no extra effect. Going from 8 to 12 in both stats is like gaining 2 levels in both shooting skills.
  • Recoil adds to your dispersion. If you're not driving it's rng(recoil/4, recoil). So on average you get extra dispersion = .625*recoil. You reduce your recoil by aiming but it can never go below the sight dispersion of your gun. Recoil is tracked during burst fire; the 30th bullet from that MAC-10 burst is a hell of a lot less accurate than the first.
  • Rifles have a scaling bonus past 10 range, worth around 20% less dispersion at 20 range and 33% less at the edge of max vision.
  • All guns except shotguns have a penalty at ranges lower than the floor of their volume/3. Volume 5 is good everywhere, 6 to 8 are penalized at range 1, etc. This poo poo almost got me killed when I missed most of a point blank G3 burst against a shocker brute.
  • The targeting CBM cuts dispersion by 25%, which is pretty sweet.
The actual useful part here is probably the encumbrance penalty. You might try to choose the perfect weapon and mod it to kingdom come, but if you're waddling around in heavy survivor gear that's 240 dispersion right there. That alone is enough to give you a chance to miss at 20 tiles away. Add in gun, ammo, skill, and stat dispersion and it becomes pretty clear why it takes forever to plink away at range.

As for recoil, the game fails to tell you something very useful. Every shot gets built in recoil reduction from your strength (rng(7*str, 15*str)) and gun skill (rng(0,7*skill)). So if you can get the gun recoil + ammo recoil below 7 times your strength, there's never any recoil. No matter how large a burst you fire. This can be pretty good if you have Hydraulic Muscles CBM and turn machine guns into laser-accurate bullet hoses.

So after reading all this game code and dying to a few shockers hiding in buildings, I have a new favorite hulkstopper for the early game. I used to ignore the MP7 because of low damage and small clip. But it fires a 20 round burst and has gun + ammo recoil of 30. If you have at least 5 strength, every single one of those bullets is as accurate as the first. Even with no skill at all. Plus you find hundreds of bullets for it in security vans, it has 7 volume so optimal range is 2 and it's still great point-blank, and unskilled SMGs/pistols take half as long to fire as unskilled rifles/shotguns.

That last part was a shock to me and made me throw away my shotguns. It's a tragedy. Here's the last list of this stupid post. The basic rate of time is 100 time units per 6 seconds.
  • Pistols: 80 base time to fire, -10 per skill level, minimum 10. This includes the RM228 short shotgun and RM232 SMG-thingy, both of which count as pistols.
  • SMGs: 80 base time to fire, -10 per skill level, minimum 20.
  • Rifles: 150 base time to fire, -15 per skill level, minimum 30.
  • Shotguns: 150 base time to fire, -25 per skill level, minimum 70. 70! Goddammit shotguns, I loved you once.

palamedes fucked around with this message at 16:07 on Jan 27, 2016

Shady Amish Terror
Oct 11, 2007
I'm not Amish by choice. 8(
Wow, that's a very in-depth write-up and some very confusing gotchas. I didn't realize that minimum firing time was why shotguns always seemed so slow.

I assume negative recoil values are rounded to 0, unless it's actually possible to make a gun more accurate by modding it into negative recoil?

palamedes
Mar 9, 2008
Yeah, recoil gets rounded to zero when firing. But that's not until after the gun and ammo recoil are added together. So you can mod a gun to have heavy negative recoil and that will compensate for the ammunition's recoil. Unlike dispersion, where no gun is good enough to improve lovely ammo.

Angry Diplomat
Nov 7, 2009

Winner of the TSR Memorial Award for Excellence In Grogging
Sorry but the best gun is that one jerry-rigged fusion laser rifle that produces deafening Michael Bay explosions. This is followed by the largest machine gun you can get with as many mods as you can jam onto it and fired in full-auto, followed by any rocket launcher, followed by the pneumatic bolt driver and that other pneumatic gun that shoots pebbles.

e: someone mod in Warhammer 40k guns so I can shoot zombies with a rocket machine gun, a laser bazooka, and a multi-barreled shotgun the size of an adult human

Angry Diplomat fucked around with this message at 16:38 on Jan 27, 2016

palamedes
Mar 9, 2008
The best gun is actually the RM99 future revolver, the second best gun is the cowboy hat you wear while firing the RM99, and the third best gun is the deputy's badge you wear while wearing the cowboy hat.

This sucker fires five round bursts and weighs as much as a child, might do the job for you. There's a lot of room for improvement I guess.

Shady Amish Terror
Oct 11, 2007
I'm not Amish by choice. 8(
Best gun is clearly either the laser rifle so I can EXCEL at being boring and efficient...or a 40mm grenade launcher of any kind, because who DOESN'T love blanketing an area in explosions?

Real-talk, MP5's and MP7's are loving boss, and shotguns are fine for early work.

E2: Actually no wait the best guns are my character's Str 30 hydraulic biceps

Shady Amish Terror fucked around with this message at 17:06 on Jan 27, 2016

Angry Diplomat
Nov 7, 2009

Winner of the TSR Memorial Award for Excellence In Grogging
The best gun is an entire school bus covered in military composite armour, on armoured wheels, with a milcomp ram on the front, powered by two V12 diesel engines, traveling at maximum speed.

e: and it's absolutely full of explosives and fuel

Killer-of-Lawyers
Apr 22, 2008

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2020
Shotguns have their uses though, shot is fantastic for hitting skeletons early on.

CheeseThief
Dec 28, 2012

Two wholesome boys to brighten your day

Getting bored of my current world, was thinking about generating one with low city density and increased distances between cities. Big/close cities seem too easy to survive in with abundant resources and I feel like all the coolest stuff spawns out in the wilderness, has anyone tried a world like this?

EDIT:

Made that world, died from a triffid gang bang while driving around looking for antibiotics for an infection. Found a really cool unmarked location along the way, a house that was partially collapsed and over grown with a barn full of dead humans and survivor gear. One entrance to the barn was all barricaded up with kitchen appliances and it had an item I'd never seen before, "Rotting Teddy Bear", just outside the barn.

I thought I had seen most of what this game had to offer but if there are unmarked locations like this maybe there's more for me to see.

CheeseThief fucked around with this message at 02:56 on Jan 30, 2016

nightwisher
Dec 24, 2004

CheeseThief posted:

Getting bored of my current world, was thinking about generating one with low city density and increased distances between cities. Big/close cities seem too easy to survive in with abundant resources and I feel like all the coolest stuff spawns out in the wilderness, has anyone tried a world like this?

Yep. Get ready to drive for a loooooooooooooonnggggg time at 8 city distance, I think I crossed two overworld maps before I found one on a highway. Makes surviving a hell of a lot more challenging when you can't just pop into the local towns dotted everywhere for a quick top-up. I really like it, I set it with 9 city size and 2.5x spawns with wandering spawns so that cities are very rewarding but incredibly dangerous.

edit: As an example, with city size 10 and city spacing at 8, in a 3x3 world map area there were only 2 cities, and one was more a small town than a city. I think the only issue with that might be that overworld map roads don't seem to link up, so actually finding the cities can be borderline impossible.

nightwisher fucked around with this message at 23:37 on Jan 29, 2016

goatsestretchgoals
Jun 4, 2011

My mid-game loadout now is a scabbard with a broadsword or machete (Pentjak Silat owns), a survivor harness with a folding stock gun, and a fireman's belt with a crow/halligan bar. Add in wearable binoculars, and my goal of minimum inventory bullshit is a go. Also you always have 3 weapons on you for that moment an NPC wanders into your LMOE shelter and tells you to leave.

Shady Amish Terror
Oct 11, 2007
I'm not Amish by choice. 8(
Pretty good, yeah; I'm personally usually just so lazy that I generally take whatever the midgame gives me and work with that. I've recently been taking great joy in using Sledgehammers with strength characters; it's pretty fun just brutalizing everything in one or two hits as you're building up your combat skills, and if you get hydraulic muscles you can just smash your way through most obstacles, because gently caress subtlety. The main problem is that the sledgehammers seem to get damaged fairly often, probably as a consequence of constantly smashing things up with hydraulic strength.

Also, pretty much ANY gun is fine for everything but the most specialized work (taking out hulks, robotic enemies, or terrain-feature specials). There are very few guns I've encountered in the game that I haven't used at some point just because they're convenient and I had ammo for them at some point. Wandering spawns sort of changes that formula around, admittedly.

goatsestretchgoals
Jun 4, 2011

Shady Amish Terror posted:

Pretty good, yeah; I'm personally usually just so lazy that I generally take whatever the midgame gives me and work with that. I've recently been taking great joy in using Sledgehammers with strength characters; it's pretty fun just brutalizing everything in one or two hits as you're building up your combat skills, and if you get hydraulic muscles you can just smash your way through most obstacles, because gently caress subtlety. The main problem is that the sledgehammers seem to get damaged fairly often, probably as a consequence of constantly smashing things up with hydraulic strength.

Also, pretty much ANY gun is fine for everything but the most specialized work (taking out hulks, robotic enemies, or terrain-feature specials). There are very few guns I've encountered in the game that I haven't used at some point just because they're convenient and I had ammo for them at some point. Wandering spawns sort of changes that formula around, admittedly.

Electric Jackhammers are great, especially once you're using UPS stuff in general. With rechargeable power, its basically a free 'gently caress you wall' button.

turn it up TURN ME ON
Mar 19, 2012

In the Grim Darkness of the Future, there is only war.

...and delicious ice cream.

buttcoinbrony posted:

Electric Jackhammers are great, especially once you're using UPS stuff in general. With rechargeable power, its basically a free 'gently caress you wall' button.

Since I've been using a blackbelt build and generally being more careful around towns, I'm surviving longer. What are some reliable ways of breaking into gun stores and filtering water? Should I figure out how to build a fire and then boin the water?

Coolguye
Jul 6, 2011

Required by his programming!
Early on, it is most effective to just get a funnel from a house (it's not hugely common, but far from unheard of) and set it up using [a]pply any time it rains, using whatever container makes sense to you. Some people just prefer a water bottle. Some prefer a gallon jug. I prefer a 3L bottle, personally. Your canteen will also work. The funnel will collect rain water, which is technically dirty but has such a low chance of being bad that in practical terms it's clean.

As far as actually cleaning dirty water, you need a heat source, something to boil the water in, and something to empty the boiled water into. The heat source can be anything from a hot plate to a campfire, and as for what to boil it in, you can easily find a pot in most homes that will serve. Personally, I just drink rain water and don't worry about it until I either find or craft an atomic coffee maker. You can find them rarely in coffee shops, but they're also not too onerous to craft once you get your electronics skill up. The nice thing about the atomic coffee maker is that it counts as both the heat source and the thing to boil it in, and has infinite power to boot. The fact that I routinely just drink rain water until this relatively late phase should go to show how reliable rain water tends to be.

Beyond that, you should always be checking vending machines when you see them. If you have NPCs off, vending machines are the only thing you can spend money on, and vending machines will frequently have glass bottles of mineral water (basically San Pellogrinos) that have even more Quench than normal water and are guaranteed clean.

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!
I'm using experimentals with the Medieval Weapons poo poo, is there any way to learn the Medieval Swordsmanship skill other than by starting with it?

tooterfish
Jul 13, 2013

The book spawns in mansions, it was really common last time I played too.

Also, you can boil water in an empty tin can.

CheeseThief
Dec 28, 2012

Two wholesome boys to brighten your day

SquadronROE posted:

Since I've been using a blackbelt build and generally being more careful around towns, I'm surviving longer. What are some reliable ways of breaking into gun stores and filtering water? Should I figure out how to build a fire and then boin the water?

Gun stores are pretty much always alarmed, have barred windows and metal doors. If they're locked you're probably better off ignoring them then going through the effort of breaking in, normal houses have a decent chance of spawning a basement full of guns that's at least equal to a gun store's stock. If you're dead set on getting inside one I think a lockpick will open the front door but will also set off the alarm, the barred windows can be cut open with a acetylene torch I think and finally you can just smash the walls down with a jackhammer or something because the walls have a lot less HP/Damage resistance than the doors and windows. I've gotten inside one by kiting a tank (accidentally mind you) through the walls.

Any zombies inside that spot you will start beating on the windows/doors and setting off the alarms too, broadly speaking I'd say gun stores aren't worth the time and effort but they do make for a very durable base if you can get into one without setting the alarm off or leaving a hole in the wall.

Fire is easy, you can start one by [a]pplying matches/lighters/etc then selecting a square, as long as there's burnable material in it a fire will start. Just try to follow the same sort of safety rules you would in real life e.g. don't just start throwing poo poo on the floor and setting it alight, throw your fuel into a fireplace/stove/brazier or just dig a shallow pit otherwise it's going to burn out of control. Don't start fires in enclosed spaces and ensure there's proper ventilation. Once you've got a fire going purifying water is easy; go to the crafting menu with [&], select the food category by scrolling to it with [>], then drinks in the sub menu with the arrow keys and select clean water. You just need something to boil it in, dirty water, a source of heat and an empty container.

Now get out there and burn some buildings down, go burn down that gun store and see what happens!

Turtlicious
Sep 17, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
How far would "realistic" city spacing be? How long is a square in game?

The Butcher
Apr 20, 2005

Well, at least we tried.
Nap Ghost

SquadronROE posted:

I spent an absurd amount of time trying to fill my canteen from a toilet. Getting water while I had the canteen in my inventory wasn't enough. Wielding the canteen and trying to get the water didn't work. I eventually just drank the toilet water straight from the bowl.

Haha I did the same first play through. Couldn't figure out why my dude was constantly sick, weak and puking. Which then made him more thirsty.

Turns out drinking post apocalyptic toilet water constantly isn't a great idea.

girth brooks part 2
Sep 6, 2011

Bush did 911
Fun Shoe

SquadronROE posted:

Since I've been using a blackbelt build and generally being more careful around towns, I'm surviving longer. What are some reliable ways of breaking into gun stores and filtering water? Should I figure out how to build a fire and then boin the water?

A makeshift lockpick, and not poo poo dex, should be able to get you into a gunstore. Though I don't think the alarm is that big a deal as long as you're speedy about it.

Knowing how to build a fire is a fairly nice bit of know how to have, so I'd suggest figuring that out anyway.

Turtlicious posted:

How far would "realistic" city spacing be? How long is a square in game?

I figured this out a while back, and I want to say that one square on the over map is a quarter mile, but I may be remembering wrong.

girth brooks part 2 fucked around with this message at 01:01 on Jan 31, 2016

The Lone Badger
Sep 24, 2007

For my water needs I rip a fuel tank off a car and fill it from the nearest swimming pool / water feature / river. I fill my canteen with boiled water each morning until I can make a charcoal water purifier, then I just purify a huge stock of water and put it in a dispenser.

One of my top priorities in early game city exploration is pawn shops. They often have swords.

Inadequately
Oct 9, 2012
The alarm spawns a camera bot, which tries to take a picture of you, then if it does a police bot shows up and tries to attack you. If you can avoid the camera bot, you're in the clear.

Or you could just shoot both, seeing as how you are now armed with the contents of a gun store.

The alarm will probably attract any remaining zombies on the street you haven't cleared out, though.

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!

tooterfish posted:

The book spawns in mansions, it was really common last time I played too.

OK, now I have an objective :v:

Coolguye
Jul 6, 2011

Required by his programming!

Turtlicious posted:

How far would "realistic" city spacing be? How long is a square in game?

Like almost all roguelikes, the size of a square is wildly inconsistent and the real answer to your question is 'however long you want it to be, friend.'

RPATDO_LAMD
Mar 22, 2013

🐘🪠🍆

Coolguye posted:

Like almost all roguelikes, the size of a square is wildly inconsistent and the real answer to your question is 'however long you want it to be, friend.'

Why do two rats take up twice as much space as a titan? gently caress if I know.

Artificer
Apr 8, 2010

You're going to try ponies and you're. Going. To. LOVE. ME!!
So just to be sure, all wildlife will eventually be zombified, right? Makes me sad. I want some more moose/bear/cougar/what have you meat for flavor's sake. :(

Depressing, too.

goatsestretchgoals
Jun 4, 2011

girth brooks part 2 posted:

Though I don't think the alarm is that big a deal as long as you're speedy about it.

if youre smart/lucky about it, the average vehicle that just needs an <x> fits through the door wall new door perfectly

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!
I just started a new game inside a survivor house full of traps, moved one square and got blown up by a land mine :psyduck:

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nightwisher
Dec 24, 2004
I've always just used the nearest driveable vehicle to smash the rear wall of gun shops and raid unmolested.

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