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Titan
Jan 14, 2002
I just remembered, with Lucifer back on earth, wouldn't that anti-christ kid have his powers back? He could come in handy.

Someone already said it but I'm gonna second that Lucifer sacrifices himself to be redeemed. Bonus if Chuck shows up to him in a vision and offers him redemption for actually helping to destroy Amara.

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Ravane
Oct 23, 2010

by LadyAmbien

Titan posted:

I just remembered, with Lucifer back on earth, wouldn't that anti-christ kid have his powers back? He could come in handy.

Someone already said it but I'm gonna second that Lucifer sacrifices himself to be redeemed. Bonus if Chuck shows up to him in a vision and offers him redemption for actually helping to destroy Amara.

drat, scares me to think what kind of monsters could be living in the Outback. Wonder if that kid is still alive.

pentyne
Nov 7, 2012

scorpiobean posted:

Yeah if the literal devil was telling the truth

That's one of the things about Satan/Lucifer in modern storytelling. He never lies because he doesn't really have to.

computer parts
Nov 18, 2010

PLEASE CLAP
Misha Collins is really good at imitating Mark Pellegrino. And yay for deaf girl!

Ravane
Oct 23, 2010

by LadyAmbien
A deaf hunter, that's pretty badass. One of my boyfriends was deaf and complained to me about never seeing deaf actors on tv, then Fargo came out and he was pretty drat happy.

Honestly though, I'm glad this position was afforded to an actor with an actual disability with a good explanation as to how she got into hunting instead of just hand-waving a position for the purposes of equality.

McSpanky
Jan 16, 2005






pentyne posted:

That's one of the things about Satan/Lucifer in modern storytelling. He never lies because he doesn't really have to.

I liked it better how they put it in SN itself a while back: demons lie, but they also tell the truth if they know it'll push your buttons. Lucifer, being the father of all demons, would naturally be king poo poo of manipulator mountain.

computer parts
Nov 18, 2010

PLEASE CLAP

Ravane posted:

A deaf hunter, that's pretty badass. One of my boyfriends was deaf and complained to me about never seeing deaf actors on tv, then Fargo came out and he was pretty drat happy.

Honestly though, I'm glad this position was afforded to an actor with an actual disability with a good explanation as to how she got into hunting instead of just hand-waving a position for the purposes of equality.

There was a Doctor Who two parter that had a deaf actress as well. There wasn't any explanation for it, just "oh hey I'm deaf and second in command soon acting commander after the other guy died, deal with it".

zoux
Apr 28, 2006

They had a deaf actor on last week's iZombie as well, I wonder if it's some sort of diversity outreach program at the CW.

yeah I eat ass
Mar 14, 2005

only people who enjoy my posting can replace this avatar

Ravane posted:

Honestly though, I'm glad this position was afforded to an actor with an actual disability with a good explanation as to how she got into hunting instead of just hand-waving a position for the purposes of equality.

Yeah, that's how I felt too. This girl has actually been in a decent amount of shows I've seen like Jericho (good show) and Weeds (god-awful show, at least after a certain point).

As for the episode itself, it was alright. I'm glad they didn't rush a solution for Cas getting free of Lucifer in one episode, but I do wish he got more screentime.

Rocksicles
Oct 19, 2012

by Nyc_Tattoo
Jericho, now there's a good show.

Tiggum
Oct 24, 2007

Your life and your quest end here.


Ravane posted:

A deaf hunter, that's pretty badass.

If they were willing to expand the cast at all, she'd make a great addition to the team of hunters they should be building.

The Red Queen
Jan 20, 2007

You tricked me!

You said dis place was fun, but it ain't!
I suppose Castiel constantly healing them up works for the Winchesters, but how do all hunters not just have hands that are crisscrossed webs of horrid scar tissue by now?

yeah I eat ass
Mar 14, 2005

only people who enjoy my posting can replace this avatar
I always wondered that too - why do they (and most other shows/movies that show people cutting themselves to get blood) always use something as sensitive and useful as a palm? At least use the back of your hand if it must be a hand.

e: I mean there was that part after Dean came back from hell where he used his arm instead, but still, he cut right into his bicep, another useful part of your arm.

yeah I eat ass fucked around with this message at 16:00 on Jan 31, 2016

McSpanky
Jan 16, 2005






As often as they have to use blood in their line of work, the average hunter should really have a dialysis shunt implanted with an appropriately modified keg tapper on hand at all times.

scorpiobean
Dec 22, 2004

I'll have one sugar coma drink, please.
I hope that old lady comes back cause she was pretty rad. #futureoldladygoals

The Red Queen
Jan 20, 2007

You tricked me!

You said dis place was fun, but it ain't!
It's great that Dean actually has a crush on the oldest "woman" that exists.

Astroman
Apr 8, 2001


Murphy Brownback posted:

I always wondered that too - why do they (and most other shows/movies that show people cutting themselves to get blood) always use something as sensitive and useful as a palm? At least use the back of your hand if it must be a hand.

e: I mean there was that part after Dean came back from hell where he used his arm instead, but still, he cut right into his bicep, another useful part of your arm.

I always hate that, because it's very stupid. The only explanation I can come up with is "it looks badass." And some sort of baloney about "Character is SO committed to doing this act of DRAWING BLOOD that they are willing to HURT for it!!" :downs:

The Red Queen
Jan 20, 2007

You tricked me!

You said dis place was fun, but it ain't!
Did I read that scene right that the deaf girl's mom died because she cut too deeply and bled out?

Facebook Aunt
Oct 4, 2008

wiggle wiggle




The Red Queen posted:

It's great that Dean actually has a crush on the oldest "woman" that exists.

Dean should have sex with the Darkness. Then she'll die for sure.

Titan
Jan 14, 2002
I'm really liking this season. It's been awhile since you were halfway through a supernatural season and couldn't already predict how it was gonna end at least partially. We all knew Dean was gonna kill Abbadon with the first blade, we knew they would kill Dick Ramon, and we at least had an idea on how it would happen. At this point I honestly have no idea how they're gonna get rid of Amara. Whether Lucifer can do it alone is in doubt, Dean can't sacrifice himself for it since the Reapers have straight up said they will be no coming back now (and they have signed on for other seasons already). Metatron is a wild card and he's running around with the demon tablet so he could have some sway in this somehow by allowing Crowley to power up with the tablet to help take on Amara.

I just really enjoy it so far. Maybe Chuck will make an appearence

Dark_Tzitzimine
Oct 9, 2012

by R. Guyovich
I'm still bummed that despite the producers confirming Gabriel is alive, they haven't done anything with it.

thrakkorzog
Nov 16, 2007

Tiggum posted:

If they were willing to expand the cast at all, she'd make a great addition to the team of hunters they should be building.

That's what I was thinking. She's a legacy member of the Men of Letters, maybe they could show her the Men of Letters compound that's a 15 minute drive away, see if she might be interested in joining. Even if she is deaf, most modern cell phones have a thing called text messaging, I hear all the kids are raving about it. Along with their poodle skirts and hula hoops, so it wouldn't be that big of a hindrance for her being able to effectively communicate with Sam and Dean.

The Red Queen posted:

Did I read that scene right that the deaf girl's mom died because she cut too deeply and bled out?

It looked like the mom was going for a hand slash with a knife, and she accidentally slashed her wrist in the excitement, so she bled out from that.

thrakkorzog fucked around with this message at 07:05 on Feb 1, 2016

bobkatt013
Oct 8, 2006

You’re telling me Peter Parker is ...... Spider-man!?

Titan posted:

I'm really liking this season. It's been awhile since you were halfway through a supernatural season and couldn't already predict how it was gonna end at least partially. We all knew Dean was gonna kill Abbadon with the first blade, we knew they would kill Dick Ramon, and we at least had an idea on how it would happen. At this point I honestly have no idea how they're gonna get rid of Amara. Whether Lucifer can do it alone is in doubt, Dean can't sacrifice himself for it since the Reapers have straight up said they will be no coming back now (and they have signed on for other seasons already). Metatron is a wild card and he's running around with the demon tablet so he could have some sway in this somehow by allowing Crowley to power up with the tablet to help take on Amara.

I just really enjoy it so far. Maybe Chuck will make an appearence

I thought Sam and Dean have the demon tablet as he had it hidden under his mattress?

ShakeZula
Jun 17, 2003

Nobody move and nobody gets hurt.

thrakkorzog posted:

That's what I was thinking. She's a legacy member of the Men of Letters, maybe they could show her the Men of Letters compound that's a 15 minute drive away, see if she might be interested in joining. Even if she is deaf, most modern cell phones have a thing called text messaging, I hear all the kids are raving about it. Along with their poodle skirts and hula hoops, so it wouldn't be that big of a hindrance for her being able to effectively communicate with Sam and Dean.

I think my biggest disappointment with the recent seasons of this show is that there is all this foundation being laid that never amounts to anything. Restarting the MoL or establishing a new hunter network could be very interesting stories (or at the very least unifying elements for a more MotW-style season), and ones that don't require raising the stakes any further past the seventh apocalypse. Instead they just kind of ignore it in favor of another world-ending Big Bad.

McSpanky
Jan 16, 2005






thrakkorzog posted:

That's what I was thinking. She's a legacy member of the Men of Letters, maybe they could show her the Men of Letters compound that's a 15 minute drive away, see if she might be interested in joining. Even if she is deaf, most modern cell phones have a thing called text messaging, I hear all the kids are raving about it. Along with their poodle skirts and hula hoops, so it wouldn't be that big of a hindrance for her being able to effectively communicate with Sam and Dean.

Frankly I think the prospect of a woman being in the Winchesters' proximity without eventually dying or being emotionally ruined by them is completely foreign to the producers by now. It's better this way.

Titan
Jan 14, 2002

bobkatt013 posted:

I thought Sam and Dean have the demon tablet as he had it hidden under his mattress?

You're right. I missed that Castiel took it back when he found Metatron again. So that takes Metatron out of the picture but leaves in the demon tablet.

So the players in this season are Lucifer, Sam and Dean, maybe Gabriel, Amara, Crowley, and maybe the demon tablet comes into play as well. I guess The Book of the Damned Rowena was able to read could come into play too. Maybe Lucifer knows how to read it?

yeah I eat ass
Mar 14, 2005

only people who enjoy my posting can replace this avatar
I hope not, that book of the damned thing was such an easy explanation and solution for everything for too long.

It's something that still annoys me about this show. One episode, witches are nothing but bodily fluid expelling slaves of demons, then later they are so powerful they can get Lucifer out of his cage (even if temporarily) and if there's something in the book, can kill the sibling of God. I just wish they'd be consistent with the power levels of different things. If you look at early season sam and dean almost being killed by lowly ghouls or vengeful spirits, it's hard to take the threat of a witch seriously. Which is why I'm glad Rowena is dead, and she better loving stay that way.

computer parts
Nov 18, 2010

PLEASE CLAP

Murphy Brownback posted:

I hope not, that book of the damned thing was such an easy explanation and solution for everything for too long.

It's something that still annoys me about this show. One episode, witches are nothing but bodily fluid expelling slaves of demons, then later they are so powerful they can get Lucifer out of his cage (even if temporarily) and if there's something in the book, can kill the sibling of God. I just wish they'd be consistent with the power levels of different things. If you look at early season sam and dean almost being killed by lowly ghouls or vengeful spirits, it's hard to take the threat of a witch seriously. Which is why I'm glad Rowena is dead, and she better loving stay that way.

They did have those Witches that could disable Leviathans like 4 seasons ago.

Stupid_Sexy_Flander
Mar 14, 2007

Is a man not entitled to the haw of his maw?
Grimey Drawer
Yea, I think it depends on if you are a natural born witch, or you get your powers through a demon. Natural born ones are incredibly powerful, demon based ones are basically just the oozy weird ones with bodily fluids everywhere.

Might explain why Crowley is as powerful as he is, if he's not only King of the Crossroads, but was a natural born witch before he was a demon.

Dark_Tzitzimine
Oct 9, 2012

by R. Guyovich
Don't forget about Patrick, the gambler witch!


Man, he would be an amazing character to bring back.

Titan
Jan 14, 2002

Stupid_Sexy_Flander posted:

Yea, I think it depends on if you are a natural born witch, or you get your powers through a demon. Natural born ones are incredibly powerful, demon based ones are basically just the oozy weird ones with bodily fluids everywhere.

Might explain why Crowley is as powerful as he is, if he's not only King of the Crossroads, but was a natural born witch before he was a demon.

From what I've seen in the show, Crowley while he is in Hell is amazingly powerful. Once he leaves Hell he just has normal Demon powers. He survives mostly by being a very good strategist and knows how to position himself and whom to ally with to get what he wants. While in Hell he can do whatever he wants, even change the place up but while outside we really haven't seen him do anything a normal Demon couldn't. He's not as powerful as yellow-eyes or Lilith were for instance.

Alastair was able to go toe to toe with Angels and was immune to their Smite. Crowley can't do that. He's just a normal crossroads demon who happens to be a very good politician.

Titan fucked around with this message at 03:30 on Feb 2, 2016

Facebook Aunt
Oct 4, 2008

wiggle wiggle




Titan posted:

From what I've seen in the show, Crowley while he is in Hell is amazingly powerful. Once he leaves Hell he just has normal Demon powers. He survives mostly by being a very good strategist and knows how to position himself and whom to ally with to get what he wants. While in Hell he can do whatever he wants, even change the place up but while outside we really haven't seen him do anything a normal Demon couldn't. He's not as powerful as yellow-eyes or Lilith were for instance.

Alastair was able to go toe to toe with Angels and was immune to their Smite. Crowley can't do that. He's just a normal crossroads demon who happens to be a very good politician.

Crowly can teleport his physical body 24/7 both in hell and on earth. He can teleport to moon or to the bottom of the marianas trench. I don't think other demons have that power? Maybe yellow eyes?

Stupid_Sexy_Flander
Mar 14, 2007

Is a man not entitled to the haw of his maw?
Grimey Drawer
He also lived past Rowena's magic bag of liquification, so I'd imagine he's pretty high up in the rankings.

Dunno if he's white eye level like Lilith or Alastair, but remember when he was fighting Cas, Cas was just a rank and file angel. Really powerful against the low level demons (burning out eyes and the like), but against high level demons, not so much. Pre "Chuck hosed with his vessel"/Oh poo poo now I'm God/OH gently caress there are leviathan all up in me/whoops dead/Hey, not dead/Hey I'm human/Whoa rocking grace now and I'm just a less feathered angel plotline stuff.

I think Crowley just likes to avoid fights where he can. Smokes out when given the chance so no one can stab a knife in his back while someone is trying to kill him anyway.

I think the only real showing of power he had was when the Darkness hosed him up pretty decently for threatening Dean, and I'm not entirely certain he wasn't holding back for some bigger overall plan.

Hell, wouldn't be the first time. Remember when Cain was introduced and we assumed he was pants shittingly terrified?

Super.Jesus
Oct 20, 2011

Angela Christine posted:

Crowly can teleport his physical body 24/7 both in hell and on earth. He can teleport to moon or to the bottom of the marianas trench. I don't think other demons have that power? Maybe yellow eyes?

Teleporting seems to be a crossroads power, but at that level it might be tied to the position of King of hell (Which ol' Azazel was)

Titan
Jan 14, 2002
When inside of Hell we see Crowley is able to destroy Demons with a snap of his fingers but on Earth he has to shank them with an Angel Blade like everyone else. However, since he is a crossroads Demon he can do anything as long as it's part of a deal.

Strength wise he's probably the strongest of the black and red eye demons but just below yellow eyes, who himself was below white eyes. I think he can hold his own against a rank and file Angel so long as they don't smite him. I agree though that Crowley is more of a schemer who plays both sides to make sure he comes out in the best position possible. He is very very good at that. He's like the personification of what The Art of War teaches.

Stupid_Sexy_Flander
Mar 14, 2007

Is a man not entitled to the haw of his maw?
Grimey Drawer
I just love him for the fact he's the only person in history who went "You know, angel blades do smite everything, but what if we made bullets out of them? Then we can smite long distance!".

Dude's an innovator.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.

I don't have a problem with powerful witches. My takeaway has always been that its questions of skill and experience. There are badasses like the poker guy, the Leviathon couple, or Rowena who are basically immortal demigods because of all the poo poo they've learned and then there's those those bored housewives who sell their souls for promotions at work and those kids who wanted to cash in on the Winchester demon bounty. Witchcraft is basically a learned skill so some people are more ambitious or skilled than others.

I mean, all the poo poo the Winchesters do with symbols and blood and traps and poo poo are all basically witchcraft too. Remember back to S1 when they didn't know poo poo and Bobby was basically introduced as an amateur magic dealer. They've just picked up a ton of tricks and skills from years of books, hunters/amateur witches, angels, demons, reapers, Men of Letters info, and all the other poo poo they've encountered.

But I won't miss Rowena. Her usefulness was way played out.

McSpanky posted:

Frankly I think the prospect of a woman being in the Winchesters' proximity without eventually dying or being emotionally ruined by them is completely foreign to the producers by now. It's better this way.

Yeah, I'm torn between "Hey, she's a legacy too so she has the exact same rights to the MoL stuff that you guys feel you have. Invite her back to your house to check out the cool poo poo." and "RUN! GET AWAY FROM THEM BEFORE ITS TOO LATE!"

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.


I wouldn't mind a storyline where all the surviving MoL legacies teamed up to kick the Winchesters out of the bunker for misusing all the info to dig the world into deeper after deeper hole.

Tiggum
Oct 24, 2007

Your life and your quest end here.


bull3964 posted:

I wouldn't mind a storyline where all the surviving MoL legacies teamed up to kick the Winchesters out of the bunker for misusing all the info to dig the world into deeper after deeper hole.

After whatever they do to gently caress things up this season, that could be the next one. Instead of them having to solve the big problem they find that someone else is a step ahead of them the whole time. They show up to investigate reports of monsters only to find it's dealt with. Turns out someone else has put together a team of competent hunters and the Winchesters end up being pushed out and forced to basically become sidekicks to someone competent, only sent to deal with little problems. Castiel tries to make a big thing about sticking with them, but it turns out the competent hunters don't want anything to do with him either.

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thrakkorzog
Nov 16, 2007

STAC Goat posted:

I don't have a problem with powerful witches. My takeaway has always been that its questions of skill and experience. There are badasses like the poker guy, the Leviathon couple, or Rowena who are basically immortal demigods because of all the poo poo they've learned and then there's those those bored housewives who sell their souls for promotions at work and those kids who wanted to cash in on the Winchester demon bounty. Witchcraft is basically a learned skill so some people are more ambitious or skilled than others.

I mean, all the poo poo the Winchesters do with symbols and blood and traps and poo poo are all basically witchcraft too. Remember back to S1 when they didn't know poo poo and Bobby was basically introduced as an amateur magic dealer. They've just picked up a ton of tricks and skills from years of books, hunters/amateur witches, angels, demons, reapers, Men of Letters info, and all the other poo poo they've encountered.

But I won't miss Rowena. Her usefulness was way played out.

Yeah, I don't see a problem with the older witches being smart enough to keep their heads down to avoid hunters and demons, and the younger, dumber witches pledging their souls to a demon for power, only to instantly showing up on hunter radar. Some idiot finds the Necronomicon and starts reading it aloud, of course that's going to raise all sorts of red flags.

Even the poker guy didn't even really come across as being all that powerful. Instead he mostly had one really good spell, and a couple of hundred years gambling experience under his belt, so his main source of power was being really good at reading people.

STAC Goat posted:


Yeah, I'm torn between "Hey, she's a legacy too so she has the exact same rights to the MoL stuff that you guys feel you have. Invite her back to your house to check out the cool poo poo." and "RUN! GET AWAY FROM THEM BEFORE ITS TOO LATE!"

I wasn't arguing that they need to have the new girl hanging out in the MoL compound all the time as a recurring character, just that they should have at least offered to give her a tour of the place, because she has as much right to be there as Sam and Dean. Just a simple,

"Hey, want to to check out the MoL base? It's a 15 minute drive from here?"
"No, I've spent too much time wallowing in the past, It's time for me to move on with my life. We should probably exchange e-mail addresses if we need help somewhere down the road, just in case."

A 30 second conversation could have easily solved that issue.

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