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I should add that while imgay almost always posts junk I feel he does less so when town. When he's town he seems to have some opinions and will lay down some votes, never justified but they're there. This just presence because he's in a game and I guess he thought he had something to say whether or not it was on the subject at hand.
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Feb 1, 2016 14:50
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Why do you think that about me?
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Feb 1, 2016 15:21
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100YrsofAttitude posted:There's definitely a lot of players like that. Friction and imgay are the two that come to mind and personally I feel they come off worse. Tomm's given some opinions and has a seemingly serious vote on Gulag. I agree at least partly wrt Friction but I think he's new, right? Not gonna go after him on d1. imgay reads almost exactly the same to me in every game I've seen him in and I can't get a bead on him.
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Feb 1, 2016 15:43
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Flying Leatherman posted:I agree at least partly wrt Friction but I think he's new, right? Not gonna go after him on d1. imgay reads almost exactly the same to me in every game I've seen him in and I can't get a bead on him. That seems to be the case yeah. imgay posted:Why do you think that about me? It's the meta I've come up with after the games we've been in. There's a few players in the community that pretty much just poo poo-post. It's a valid strategy because, as Leatherman notes, it's really hard to get a bead on them. For me the one I can never figure out is CPig. You're somewhat like gulag in that you seem to have more of a focus when you're town. You'll vote and you'll change that vote, I'm never really sure why, you never say, but that's not apparent here. Maybe it's because you have nothing to hide when you're town so you have more obvious opinions? I don't want you take that as an insult. It's your way of playing and it works really well for you. I just think that this time you've rolled scum. The fact that your reply to getting some suspicion is just asking why we think that instead of acting upon some of the noted behavior that makes us suspicious adds to it.
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Feb 1, 2016 16:18
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I'm town though
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Feb 1, 2016 17:07
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Trasson may be new, but he's definitely my strongest Scum read. If the d1 newbie pass absolutely must be honored, I will settle for lynching King Burgundy. In past games with KB (where he was Town), he was a player that I often found engaged, helpful, and whose opinions I found myself nodding along with and seeing where he was coming from easily. In this game, in contrast, he has posted numerous monosyllabic or single-smilie-only posts, non-game related chatter, and these two posts that ping my Scumdar: King Burgundy posted:I often vote for even less of a reason on D1. But this wasn't a joke vote. Her vote for Cog seems wrong to me, and her posts after it didn't help things. King Burgundy posted:
##unvote Trasson <---is Scum ##Vote King Burgundy
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Feb 1, 2016 17:27
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Alright, re-reading the thread, a bunch of thoughts. 100YrsofAttitude posted:It's the meta I've come up with after the games we've been in. There's a few players in the community that pretty much just poo poo-post. It's a valid strategy because, as Leatherman notes, it's really hard to get a bead on them. For me the one I can never figure out is CPig. You're somewhat like gulag in that you seem to have more of a focus when you're town. You'll vote and you'll change that vote, I'm never really sure why, you never say, but that's not apparent here. Maybe it's because you have nothing to hide when you're town so you have more obvious opinions? I really wanted to believe this, so I went ahead and read the filter in iamgay's last game . http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3761650&userid=210152 His first relevant post that contains any kind of content that could be related to the game is... day 3. Ok, I said, I'll look at a different game. I went back and found a completed game with imgay in it. Gnome mafia. http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3757455&userid=210152&perpage=40&pagenumber=1 In both these games, imgay is town, and he posts roughly the same amount of "content" as we're seeing in this game. Here he posts at least one town read and a couple of things relevant to the immediate discussion. The only point I'd concede is that he hasn't voted here yet, but that doesn't seem too far away from the reality. I haven't been able to dig up a scum game of his for comparison, but a quick check makes your case feel flimsy. I'd be interested to see you substantiate it further, because something about it comes off as going after an easy target. I started to write a case on my vote target here, but I have to go, so I just leave you with my "I don't really think your meta argument holds up to scrutiny" post.
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Feb 1, 2016 17:42
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Happy Black History Month Lumpen!
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Feb 1, 2016 17:42
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Lumpen I miss you playing more
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Feb 1, 2016 17:44
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Whens the slack game even going to start
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Feb 1, 2016 17:45
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Feb 1, 2016 17:48
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I was going to just shelve Slack Mafia #3 and run a nailbiter setup on the forum instead... but then Podima did just that so it's even better because I get to see the setup run and play! I think Slack is great but apparently there aren't currently 16 other people around here that do and have the inclination. So I will be patient and it'll run when the time comes.
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Feb 1, 2016 17:59
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imgay posted:Happy Black History Month Lumpen!  http://www.itsabouttimebpp.com/our_stories/The_Lumpen/the_lumpen.html
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Feb 1, 2016 18:02
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TheCog posted:Alright, re-reading the thread, a bunch of thoughts. I wasn't in either of those games and I only read the threads of games I play because that is A LOT of effort. But look I joined him in the World of Warcraft game, we were both in the Trojan Soldiers thread, the original Gnomefia, and Ecco's Misery of Madriu. I think I had replaced into the majority of those games and I think for a couple he was already dead but you can a difference in style anyway. In Warcraft he stay son point voting Kash and gives reasons for his later votes. He was town. In Troy he was laying down votes giving one sentence opinions and he was town. In Gnomefia he's giving opinions and talking properly about the game and he was town. And in Madriu he does the same thing. He's not doing either of those things here. At all. Funnily enough he writes in Madriu in response to me: "I don't understand why you think I am poo poo posting. I've only mentioned things that I thought were scummy and acted accordingly at that time. I've hard claimed town, but you seem more then content to lynch me for some reason. You quoted me for saying that when I was catching up in this thread that a found a certain post scummy, then act like I immediately voted someone else for no reason. I quoted the post that made me have my vote at the time and feel like your removing context, and calling it noise is being pretty lovely." So maybe we just have a thing imgay. Who knows?
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Feb 1, 2016 18:08
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Idk that was my first game
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Feb 1, 2016 18:21
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Well then, I guess I should have read a few more games to get a feel for what people try to look for. Unfortunately "bursts of thought" tends to be how I operate, I'm not a particularly methodical person but I can see I need to sit down and take some time to read through the thread and draw some better conclusions. ##unvote
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Feb 1, 2016 18:55
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 Votecount for Day 1   King Burgundy (3): Asiina, TheCog, Lumpen imgay (2): Captain Foo, 100YrsofAttitude GulagDolls (2): Tommunist, AnonymousNarcotics, Friction.123, AnonymousNarcotics (2): TheCog, GulagDolls, King Burgundy, Captain Foo (2): JakeP, Metos TheCog (1): AnonymousNarcotics, Friction.123, Tommunist (1): Asiina, Friction.123 (0): Asiina, Trasson (0): Lumpen, Asiina (0): Tommunist, Kashuno (0): Tommunist, Not Voting (3): Friction.123, imgay, Trasson  With 16 alive, it's 9 votes to lynch. The current deadline is February 01st, 2016 at 7 p.m. EST -- that's in about 5 hours, 53 minutes. Heads up, just 6 hours to go. Question for each player: Who are three people you're willing to vote for? For me: Trasson, King Burgundy, Flying Leatherman (for lurking and for this highly self-conscious awkward post)
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Feb 1, 2016 19:06
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100 for omgus, kash for being kash, and cog for defending me
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Feb 1, 2016 19:09
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Lumpen posted:Trasson may be new, but he's definitely my strongest Scum read. I'm trying to change my meta. I don't have as much time to post these days, and people think I'm scum all the time now because I'm posting less. I tried going straight poo poo-posting last game, but wasn't able to maintain it past day 1 because I like to talk too much. This game has been a happy medium for me so far. You are wrong, but it's fine. I expect a few more games like this before people are used to my new style.
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Feb 1, 2016 19:21
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Lumpen posted:Question for each player: Right now I'd go AN, Asiina, and Tommunist. AN is the only one I have more than a gut feeling on, though. (I'd support a lurker cuddle as well)
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Feb 1, 2016 19:26
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I usually wait until page 16 or so for higher accuracy, but I am bored right now, so behold: D1 LumpenList
After doing the whole re-read and organizing it, I think it's pretty good actually. As usual, I highly encourage EVERYONE to post their own version. It you're Town it will be very helpful to Town, it will help you analyze the game as you consider rankings by re-reading through each person's posts, and your honest reads will be on the record even if you die. If you are Scum and try to craft a List, it will inevitably expose you and your scumbuddies, so that'd help too, thanks.
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Feb 1, 2016 19:38
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I'm still good with my imgay vote. I'd vote Friction otherwise. I also have feelings about Metos but I think it's because he seems to have the worst way of phrasing his sentences. I have to re-read them several times to get what he's saying is not a straight up scum slip. Foo was initially on my list but he was altogether a lurker execution. It's less so of that since he's begun to post. I have to give the roster another look over though initially I was null leaning town/leaning town on several people. But I have guests tonight. I should be back for deadline. I'll be back if not to write more to at least to check up on the action and be useful if I can be.
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Feb 1, 2016 19:47
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Lumpen posted:Who are three people you're willing to vote for? 1) Tomm, for reasons discussed. Signal to noise ratio is super low. 3) GulagDolls, for pushing the massclaim idea really, really hard after even Cog had decided to drop it for the time being. Not caring about keeping power roles around and discounting negatives doesn't make sense to me from a Town perspective because they can help with finding scum and preventing nightkills. I get that power roles are ancillary to actual post analysis, and that's fine, but I think it's bad play to completely discount them, especially when mislynching makes a PR disappear for good (and this massclaim idea, if scum claim power roles, would certainly lead to mislynches). 3) Foo, for dropping an early vote and then showing back up after being called out by a couple people to make exactly 9 more posts before leaving again. It feels to me like specifically posting to try and avoid hated tomorrow. This one's subject to change if he's back and active for deadline.
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Feb 1, 2016 19:48
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Interesting that you skipped 2 for two 3s. I think this is a potential scum slip
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Feb 1, 2016 19:51
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I don't generally like giving out lists of who I think is town, because I feel like it makes targeting easier for the scumteam. I will however happily share my current scumreads, I'm just gonna c/p from the google doc I've got going. Flying Leatherman - Low volume of posts. Flying Leatherman posted:I'm sorry I disappeared! I had some personal stuff come up last night. I know, no excuses. Is scummy. It a.) doesn’t line up with reality. If you think frictions post is bad, why isn’t your vote on him? "A scummy post" feels like a better argument than "lurking" b.) No one noticed he was gone or called him out on it, not in a significant manner, feels like the type of post you make when you're worried someone thinks you're not doing enough. Friction.123 - Could be newbie town, but the eagerness to jump on a wagon, any wagon, is worrying. It also felt like voting on me was jumping on a wagon of opportunity. Also make note of the connection between him and FL, if either flips scum, the other is likely mafia, given the way FL soft accused him and then voted for someone else. Metos - Mafia, based on Metos posted:Kashuno seems like a cool town guy. 2.) Why do you vote for a lurker when you have two people you think are mafia? Feels like a "safe" vote. Especially the "I'm happy to switch to X, if there's a wagon building!" 3.) Saying "I think X" is mafia but also arguing they've posted like nothing is... stretching, it feels like a poor vote justification.
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Feb 1, 2016 19:53
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TheCog posted:a.) doesn’t line up with reality. If you think frictions post is bad, why isn’t your vote on him? "A scummy post" feels like a better argument than "lurking" You're misinterpreting what I said. "Lurking" != "low signal-to-noise ratio". Look at the number of posts he's made. It's hardly lurking; it's just super light on content per post.
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Feb 1, 2016 20:03
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You picked two out of three new players for your lost of three and one guy who "didn't post much." Don't get me wrong I am suspicious of FL too since he made three posts lightly throwing blame in my direction, but low volume strikes me as a weak reason. Unless that is a common mafia tactic? I don't want to come across as "wahhhh stop picking on us" but if I were scum I would be putting blame on new players who probably aren't particularly good at defending themself. TheCog everyone thinks very strongly that you're town, and I agree with them mostly (which is why I am no longer voting for you). I still felt obligated to point this out.
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Feb 1, 2016 20:05
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Of course this is going to be construed as me defending FL more (I also think he is scum, but my reasons involve knowing my own role and that isn't a good reason), but I'm still going to give my honest opinion even if it kills me.
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Feb 1, 2016 20:07
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Yeah, between that and "I don't like giving out lists of who I think is town, it makes targeting easier for the scumteam" (which is like, what? You're town, you want to try and figure who's on your side and who isn't, consequences be damned) and then giving out a list of people anyway, it feels like you're throwing out a big neon sign saying "DON'T TRUST ME" But then both me and Friction feel that way which feels like a point against that logic since we're both new so now I'm not so sure on that but a;dfhaidsuhfaidsuh. Detailed thoughts on others coming in a bit.
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Feb 1, 2016 20:13
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Friction.123 posted:You picked two out of three new players for your lost of three and one guy who "didn't post much." Don't get me wrong I am suspicious of FL too since he made three posts lightly throwing blame in my direction, but low volume strikes me as a weak reason. Unless that is a common mafia tactic? I don't know who's new or not because this is my second game here, to me, everyone is new! Well, except for the people I played with last game. Like FL. In general, scum arent going to be leading cases, because that's scary and they you have to deal with the backlash and coming up with excuses is so much harder than jumping on a bandwagon! As to FL, he has a weird feel this game. He had a weird feel last game, where he was cult leader. Flying Leatherman posted:You're misinterpreting what I said. "Lurking" != "low signal-to-noise ratio". Look at the number of posts he's made. It's hardly lurking; it's just super light on content per post. Why the excuse? Why Tomm instead of friction? Why is having lots of posts with little content bad, when in content they average out to about the same level as say imgay? What makes one "low content" poster a better target than another? Can you point at specific posts that are scummy? Friction.123 posted:Of course this is going to be construed as me defending FL more (I also think he is scum, but my reasons involve knowing my own role and that isn't a good reason), but I'm still going to give my honest opinion even if it kills me. Talk to me. Expand on the reasons why you think FL is scum!
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Feb 1, 2016 20:21
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Trasson posted:Yeah, between that and "I don't like giving out lists of who I think is town, it makes targeting easier for the scumteam" (which is like, what? You're town, you want to try and figure who's on your side and who isn't, consequences be damned) and then giving out a list of people anyway, it feels like you're throwing out a big neon sign saying "DON'T TRUST ME" I feel like townies should hunt mafia. Finding town is an useful tool, but I generally prefer to post my scum reads, so town don't know who they should knock out. That way if scum take out someone I totally thought was shady but not shady enough to merit an accusation, I'm saved a day of potentially targeting the wrong person. Me saying "I think X, Y and Z" are scum isn't me saying "They're the only people I'm suspicious of", they're the people I'm *most* suspicious of. This also helps because it doesn't tell scum who's "safe" to build a case on, remember, scum don't see the same way town does. The TLDR is I don't mind giving scum-lists, I don't usually give out my full town reads. It doesn't mean I don't ever do it, its just not my preference.
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Feb 1, 2016 20:25
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TheCog posted:I feel like townies should hunt mafia. Finding town is an useful tool, but I generally prefer to post my scum reads, so town don't know who they should knock out. That way if scum take out someone I totally thought was shady but not shady enough to merit an accusation, I'm saved a day of potentially targeting the wrong person. Me saying "I think X, Y and Z" are scum isn't me saying "They're the only people I'm suspicious of", they're the people I'm *most* suspicious of. This also helps because it doesn't tell scum who's "safe" to build a case on, remember, scum don't see the same way town does. I feel like townies should hunt mafia. Finding town is an useful tool, but I generally prefer to post my scum reads, so scum don't know who they should knock out. I should really proofread.
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Feb 1, 2016 20:27
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Two main reasons, both weak. I know I am a towny (aren't we all?), so assuming the mafia know each other anyone bandwagoning against me is mildly suspicious. Add to that the fact he made three posts all very lightly casting blame in my direction hoping that wagon would take off full steam and I already feel weird about him. Second, low post count in the early parts of the day, which I don't think is a good reason by itself but combined with above is enough for me, personally, to be suspicious of him.
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Feb 1, 2016 20:29
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I made a new kind of chart. Please keep submitting the 3 people you're willing to vote today so I can complete my chart.
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Feb 1, 2016 20:32
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Lumpen why is TheCog no longer totally a townie for you?
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Feb 1, 2016 20:34
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Friction.123 posted:Lumpen why is TheCog no longer totally a townie for you? the chart seems to add up how many times people have been named as suspicious and put them in that spot on the list. E.g flying leatherman, jakeP and metos all mentioned Captian Foo, so now he's at suspiciousness 3. Its a clever chart actually.
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Feb 1, 2016 20:36
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Friction.123 posted:Lumpen why is TheCog no longer totally a townie for you? My LumpenList stands, for my own opinions. Ok, Chart explanation... The "Suspectedness" is the number of people who have expressed a willingness to lynch the person. The rest of the chart is the expressed lynch preferences of each person. The colors of their expressed preference match the overall suspectedness of the mentioned person. So Captain Foo and GulagDolls currently have 3 people who "would vote" them. Flying Leatherman has expressed a willingness to vote 2 "reds" and an "orange", which may indicate he's bandwagoning. I dunno, let's fill up the chart and see if useful patterns emerge once the game is over and we know who was who.
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Feb 1, 2016 20:39
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TheCog posted:As to FL, he has a weird feel this game. He had a weird feel last game, where he was cult leader. Those are the only two games we've been in together :\ If you want to make a meta case, go read my completed games and see if they have a "weird feel" to you too. Trying to base an alignment call off of only one game is really sketchy and I don't like that you're trying to do it. What excuse? I didn't call friction scummy, and it seems like you're trying to say I did. I think the post I referenced is Bad and Wrong, but contrariwise I think he's genuine on massclaim discussion and also I'm not lynching a new guy D1. One post does not a comprehensive read make; note he didn't even make my top 3 above. Again, signal to noise. Look at the post count back on last page. If you drop double the posts but have the same amount of content, that's what I'm talking about when I say signal to noise. It lets people hide behind the facade of activity without contributing. I think this answers why I prioritized him over other players as well, so forgive me for not covering that separately. The aggregate is why I read him as scum. There are a ton of meaningless posts. Go look at his filter and tell me that it's full of content.
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Feb 1, 2016 20:46
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I have not really read this game, but will when I get home tonight and throw some opinions down
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Feb 1, 2016 20:48
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Flying Leatherman posted:Your points, in order: Its deliberately not a meta read, if it were a meta read, I'd call out posts and point at specifics, its a gut judgement. There's not enough content for me to make a meta read. If you think it was a bad post, but not scummy, why did you feel compelled to point it out? I like your answers so far actually. How do you feel about 100YrsofAttitude?
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Feb 1, 2016 20:53
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