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Bernardo Orel posted:One thing I noticed is how much Hoaqin's demon looks like Baam's. So I wonder if it is the same entity that's always trying to use people in the tower for it's own gains or something. There's a common factor, mind you. FUG. Could be coincidence, but that the mysterious demon suddenly appeared to Hoaqin seems suspicious. Might just be a tower thing, though.
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Dec 29, 2015 18:20
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http://www.webtoons.com/en/fantasy/tower-of-god/season-2-ep-183/viewer?title_no=95&episode_no=264
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Jan 4, 2016 06:44
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Gotta love straight forward sound effects like STAB.
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Jan 4, 2016 13:15
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http://www.webtoons.com/en/fantasy/tower-of-god/season-2-ep-184/viewer?title_no=95&episode_no=265 Mangator! 
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Jan 11, 2016 06:50
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Am I the only one who thinks Hoaqin's EEEVULNESS! is a bit too over the top? I remember back when Koon first met "Viole," he realized that it was an act because "Viole" talked like "a villain from a third-rate fantasy pulp," but Hoaqin talks and acts like that completely unironically. I liked the part of the chapter about the game, though. I got the impression Koon proposed the coin flip to bait Rachel into doing something dumb to prove her superiority and didn't expect her to actually accept. Although it's also possible that the coin was biased and Koon realized it. Silver2195 fucked around with this message at 07:22 on Jan 11, 2016 |
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Jan 11, 2016 07:11
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Silver2195 posted:I liked the part of the chapter about the game, though. I got the impression Koon proposed the coin flip to bait Rachel into doing something dumb to prove her superiority and didn't expect her to actually accept. Although it's also possible that the coin was biased and Koon realized it. I suspect that it'll involve trickery or violence. He never said that you can't use the lighthouse to affect the coin, or interfere with each other. Eg. stop the coin while it's falling, when it's at the right spot and put your hand 1mm under it so it'll land the way you want.
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Jan 11, 2016 09:36
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I'm a little concerned that Kuhn might lose this gamble just because he owned Rachel in their last encounter and from a narrative perspective I would expect him to not repeat the same feat again so soon. That being said, I hope I'm wrong. I can't see Kuhn confidently proposing such a thing unless he has something planned. One strong possibility is that Rachel might win and kill the fish, causing Baam and Hoaqin's imminent fight to be post-poned (since the event will have ended). For some weird reason Baam and Kuhn have always reminded me of Gon and Killua from Hunter x Hunter. I think it's something about one of the characters being kind of bizarre and not totally "there" mentally and the other being more pragmatic and knowledgeable.
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Jan 11, 2016 09:39
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Ytlaya posted:I'm a little concerned that Kuhn might lose this gamble just because he owned Rachel in their last encounter and from a narrative perspective I would expect him to not repeat the same feat again so soon.... Yeah, it'll be a pretty telegraphed "twist" if that does happen.
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Jan 11, 2016 09:42
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Then again, isn't it kind of Rachel's whole thing to lose miserably against anyone who actually acknowledges her as an enemy? Because of being a pretty lovely person who's only here because she ride the coattails of actually great people? LIke, the only times she's ever won was by backstabbing her allies and getting more capable people to do her dirty work. Pretty much her only strength is her treachery, and Kuhn knows that full well. She's also not likely to honor any agreement made, so she's probably going to play along and then go for a sucker punch somewhere.
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Jan 11, 2016 14:57
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Alectai posted:Then again, isn't it kind of Rachel's whole thing to lose miserably against anyone who actually acknowledges her as an enemy? Because of being a pretty lovely person who's only here because she ride the coattails of actually great people? While I think/hope you're right about what will happen in her match with Kuhn (just because it's fun watching Kuhn punk people, especially if the person he's punking is Rachel), I would argue that being able to get other people to help you is, in and of itself, a pretty huge strength. That being said, it's not really clear if Rachel is actually responsible for persuading her allies; I remember Headon, at the beginning of the comic, saying how he would make her the protagonist or something, so it's seem possible (if not probable) that these people are being ordered to help Rachel, rather than Rachel manipulating them into doing so. At the very least, she's still pretty good at deceiving people (though far from perfect, since Kuhn saw through her). On a somewhat unrelated note, it's kind of creepy how so many comments on every single chapter are just vicious insults against Rachel. I get that she's a lovely person, but there are a bunch of lovely people in other comics/stories. I can't help but feel that a lot of the hatred aimed at her is influenced by the fact that she's both a woman and relatively unattractive. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 18:57 on Jan 11, 2016 |
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Jan 11, 2016 18:55
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Ytlaya posted:I can't help but feel that a lot of the hatred aimed at her is influenced by the fact that she's both a woman and relatively unattractive. To put it in context. If Rachel were to magically become Raphael the male betrayer, people would still be hating on him. Brought To You By fucked around with this message at 19:59 on Jan 11, 2016 |
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Jan 11, 2016 19:57
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I think another reason people hate Rachel is because of her weakness/incompetence, really. I do mostly agree that people would still hate Rachel if she were male, just like they hate Sasuke, Griffith, et al. Although a lot of the hate directed at characters like Sasuke (on other sites, not here) has a homophobic tinge to it, so maybe it is partly a gendered thing.
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Jan 11, 2016 20:42
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Ytlaya posted:On a somewhat unrelated note, it's kind of creepy how so many comments on every single chapter are just vicious insults against Rachel. I get that she's a lovely person, but there are a bunch of lovely people in other comics/stories. I can't help but feel that a lot of the hatred aimed at her is influenced by the fact that she's both a woman and relatively unattractive. It has less to do with attractiveness and everything to do with it's a female who's not literally worshipping the ground the protagonist walks on. Comments for every website is the lowest common denominator, and that group amongst "nerds" says gently caress women above all others. It sucks since it seems to be keeping most women characters from being anything but one of 3 or 4 stereotypes who worship the protagonist or else are the supreme evil. Would be nice to see more antagonist female characters beyond evil for evils sake and evil until they meet protagonist and then switch sides. Griffith may be evil but at least he has reasons for what he's doing that don't involve Guts or "I'm hella evil guys."
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Jan 12, 2016 04:13
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Brought To You By posted:That's a huge assumption and not founded by any comments in this thread. Out of all the villains in the series, Rachel is the oldest and closest. Her betrayals are all personal and affect the main cast (Bam and Khun specifically). All of her betrayals have come at a huge cost to both parties and had repercussions that affected the direction of the narrative and the side casts as well. Other villains are arc villains, around for a few months and then shunted off or put on the back burner, Rachel has been with us for years now. She's been on one huge win streak since the beginning of the series and nobody has been able to really stop her until recently. Every other time she screwed someone over she got away scott free, so a lot of her getting dunked on right now by Khun is cathartic. Her gender has nothing to do with the hate she's getting, her being an rear end in a top hat who has had her comeuppance a long time coming is why she's getting hated on. I'm not talking about this thread, I'm talking about comments on the webtoon site. Disliking her as a character makes sense, and I also look forward to her getting her comeuppance. But a lot of these comments are just vicious, and they'll appear in any chapter in which Rachel shows up, even if she doesn't do anything (and sometimes even appear in ones where she doesn't show up). Revdomezehis posted:It has less to do with attractiveness and everything to do with it's a female who's not literally worshipping the ground the protagonist walks on. Comments for every website is the lowest common denominator, and that group amongst "nerds" says gently caress women above all others. It sucks since it seems to be keeping most women characters from being anything but one of 3 or 4 stereotypes who worship the protagonist or else are the supreme evil. Would be nice to see more antagonist female characters beyond evil for evils sake and evil until they meet protagonist and then switch sides. Griffith may be evil but at least he has reasons for what he's doing that don't involve Guts or "I'm hella evil guys." Yeah, it's probably not a major factor in most cases, though I've definitely seen comments specifically talking about how ugly she is. Here is one from the previous chapter's comments: "Rachel just keeps on getting uglier every chapter..." I'm pretty sure that people never talk about male characters - even villains - being ugly unless they're flat-out disgusting looking (in the context of it being an insult rather than a joke or something, that is). Rachel isn't even bad looking; she just isn't noticeably attractive. Silver2195 posted:I think another reason people hate Rachel is because of her weakness/incompetence, really. Yeah, they would still hate her, but I doubt the hate would be quite so vicious/"personal"; in the case of Sasuke, for instance, it's mostly just people saying "haha god Sasuke is such a douchebag" rather than actively and earnestly wishing for his death/suffering. I don't see multiple comments about how Griffith is scum and needs to die every single time a Berserk chapter is released. Readers definitely dislike him and want him to suffer for what he did, but not to the extent that they feel they need to express it constantly. Also, yeah, it's definitely a lowest common denominator thing. It's just that the lowest common denominator is even usually even worse when its anger is directed at a woman (or minority for that matter).
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Jan 12, 2016 06:50
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http://www.webtoons.com/en/fantasy/tower-of-god/season-2-ep-185/viewer?title_no=95&episode_no=266
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Jan 18, 2016 09:34
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Nice to see our princess has her priorities straight.
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Jan 18, 2016 10:34
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Bernardo Orel posted:Nice to see our princess has her priorities straight. Powerful people with facial scars always turn evil, so she's right to worry.
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Jan 18, 2016 13:28
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My hope is that Khun lets Rachel know what it feels like to be pushed down a hole.
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Jan 19, 2016 02:46
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http://www.webtoons.com/en/fantasy/tower-of-god/season-2-ep-186/viewer?title_no=95&episode_no=267 Will Rachel actually reveal everything she knows? Oh my~
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Jan 25, 2016 09:43
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If she doesn't, Khun can throw some more coins.
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Jan 25, 2016 13:12
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That's a pretty huge gamble that the god who created the tower isn't just pure loving evil.
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Jan 25, 2016 18:12
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I didn't like the way the coin thing was resolved. My previous impression of Koon's character was that he was too smart for that kind of magical thinking.
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Jan 25, 2016 18:17
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Gyges posted:That's a pretty huge gamble that the god who created the tower isn't just pure loving evil. Tower of God: Featuring ManGator, Spectacular Artwork, and the Just World Fallacy
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Jan 25, 2016 19:02
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Maybe Koon just doesn't really understand statistics and has fallen victim to the gambler's fallacy.
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Jan 25, 2016 20:43
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Gyges posted:Maybe Koon just doesn't really understand statistics and has fallen victim to the gambler's fallacy. Someone in the comments explained pretty well what was going on: "For anyone that didn't understand, Khun rigged the first coin flip. Then the next two coin flips were pure chance but since Khun only needed one head out of 2 flips, the probability of at least one heads was 75 percent...so he had an advantage even if everything came down to luck." So basically Koon was gambling on a 75% chance of winning (either by getting heads during both the first rolls, or by getting H-T-H like ended up happening). If he had just relied off on the first roll there would be (accurate) suspicion of him cheating (and Rachel probably would have ended up fighting him if he pressed the issue), but by doing multiple rolls - especially with Rachel winning one - it makes the game as a whole seem more fair. It was actually pretty clever of him, even though 25% is a pretty big risk given his position. I'm wondering if Baam did something when he stabbed Hoaqin (a comment mentioned depositing someone else's soul into Hoaqin, though I don't know if any souls were left in the knife at that point), since they made it sound like everyone would be hosed if Hoaqin made it to the third round and it's clear at this point that Baam can't quite handle Hoaqin in a straight-up fight.
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Jan 25, 2016 22:04
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Ytlaya posted:I'm wondering if Baam did something when he stabbed Hoaqin (a comment mentioned depositing someone else's soul into Hoaqin, though I don't know if any souls were left in the knife at that point), since they made it sound like everyone would be hosed if Hoaqin made it to the third round and it's clear at this point that Baam can't quite handle Hoaqin in a straight-up fight. Yeah for how the coin flipping went. As for this, there's Wangnan in the knife right now, and so is Vincent's body.
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Jan 25, 2016 22:22
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Ytlaya posted:Someone in the comments explained pretty well what was going on: There is indeed a 75% chance that if you flip a coin twice, heads will come up. However after Rachel flipped the coin he only had a 50% chance of winning. We know that Koon didn't plan on doing two flips from the start because he only agrees after Rachel wagers Baam's past if she loses again. He then salvages the situation by talking his way into a third coin flip, but the probability of it being heads is not 75% because the bet is on a single coin toss. You only have a 75% chance of landing on heads if you going to flipping a coin twice. Since Koon was only focusing on single instances of the game, each time was a 50/50 gamble. Thinking that since the coin had already been flipped the odds of the next flip being heads carry over is entirely Gambler's Fallacy. quote:I'm wondering if Baam did something when he stabbed Hoaqin (a comment mentioned depositing someone else's soul into Hoaqin, though I don't know if any souls were left in the knife at that point), since they made it sound like everyone would be hosed if Hoaqin made it to the third round and it's clear at this point that Baam can't quite handle Hoaqin in a straight-up fight. He's probably only really trying to get back Wangnan.
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Jan 25, 2016 22:28
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http://www.webtoons.com/en/fantasy/tower-of-god/season-2-ep-187/viewer?title_no=95&episode_no=268 
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Feb 1, 2016 09:39
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Nice of the conductor dude to let them watch in 3-D and provide a concession stand.
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Feb 1, 2016 13:16
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That's got to be Roen, right?
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Feb 1, 2016 17:15
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Gyges posted:There is indeed a 75% chance that if you flip a coin twice, heads will come up. However after Rachel flipped the coin he only had a 50% chance of winning. We know that Koon didn't plan on doing two flips from the start because he only agrees after Rachel wagers Baam's past if she loses again. He then salvages the situation by talking his way into a third coin flip, but the probability of it being heads is not 75% because the bet is on a single coin toss. You only have a 75% chance of landing on heads if you going to flipping a coin twice. Since Koon was only focusing on single instances of the game, each time was a 50/50 gamble. No, it seems like the idea is that, from the very beginning, he was planning to do the "out of three" flips thing if Rachel challenged his initial, rigged, flip (which he expected her to do) and he failed the next coin flip. The reason he didn't force the issue with the first flip is that he was afraid Rachel and her teammates would suspect him cheating (which they would be correct about) and start a fight. While it was a 50% chance after he failed the second flip, the plan as a whole, from the beginning, still had a 75% chance of success* (and he didn't have a choice but to follow through with the third flip either way). To expand the example to illustrate this, imagine a situation where Koon had 100 flips and only needed one heads to win. Obviously the chances of winning in such a situation would be greatly in his favor, but given the first 99 being tails, the last flip is still only 50%. But this wouldn't change the fact that the plan itself was still a good one that offered a >50% chance of success. So basically Koon created a situation where he needed to win only one out of two coin flips, and the chance of the plan itself succeeding was indeed 75%. *If you ignore the non-zero chance that his cheating would be detected and assume his judgement about Rachel accepting the "best out of three" rule was accurate, but Koon seems like an accurate judge of these things.
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Feb 1, 2016 19:43
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Silver2195 posted:I didn't like the way the coin thing was resolved. My previous impression of Koon's character was that he was too smart for that kind of magical thinking. It makes sense when you think about what Koon is trying to do right now. He wants to utterly crush Rachel and part of doing that is taking away her belief that she is destined for greatness. It's still a huge gamble for him to do things the way he is doing them though. He had already won but let his emotions and curiosity compel him to make an agreement that I think is going to bite him in the rear end later on. And giving her a dollar and not eliminating her there is a bad move from a pragmatic standpoint. Even if he was trying to "prove" that god doesn't favor her, Rachel is still a resourceful and lucky person to have made it this far while essentially being an unremarkable person outside of her convictions.
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Feb 2, 2016 00:59
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Silver2195 posted:I didn't like the way the coin thing was resolved. My previous impression of Koon's character was that he was too smart for that kind of magical thinking. I dunno, he's smart but he's also arrogant as hell. He seems to have a really strong belief in his own importance and place in the universe, it doesn't seem out of character to me.
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Feb 2, 2016 01:27
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Yeah, he knew he could win by cheating, but he was so sure that the Tower hated Rachel. What better way to completely destroy someone by showing her: a) she can't win in a straight up battle b) she can't win by cheating c) she can't win by luck So yeah, perfectly in line with notorious rear end in a top hat Koon.
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Feb 2, 2016 21:39
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Why does Koon want to know so much about Baam's past anyways? Or was that another fakeout?
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Feb 5, 2016 21:43
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probably because they're friends and he wants to know what is up with baam and rachel? like, he clearly grasps how ridiculous baam is, but rachel is just this tenacious little poo poo with no redeeming qualities whatsoever so understanding what motivates baam to care about her so much is probably of interest
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Feb 5, 2016 23:29
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baam was his first friend even. baam was warned that he'd be betrayed by khun very early on since thats a trait of the family and its funny because i can't remember if that was a FUG warning or whatever or might still be an incredibly long con
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Feb 5, 2016 23:41
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Khun's the kind of guy who wants to have control over everything, so knowing the backstory of his Irregular friend is going to help him control that friend. He's probably very envious of how easily Rachel seems to do it.
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Feb 5, 2016 23:58
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Just seems like a weird priority and something easily solved by asking Baam directly since he's honest. It also seems unlikely that Khun doesn't know at least as much as Rachel. Of course, we as readers know that and maybe neither character does.
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Feb 6, 2016 00:36
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baam doesn't know is the whole point. he was trapped in a hole that some girl could get into and talk to him and he followed her into the tower despite not knowing anything
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Feb 6, 2016 00:52
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