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How many female generals are there in the world's military today, compared to men? How many were there in the German Reich? LoGH isn't Star Trek, it doesn't have any aspirations to portray a post-feminist future where all social ills have been worked out and equality, liberty, and fraternity are the order of the day. (Trek is also something of a sausage fest but you get what I mean.) In fact a major part of the theme of LoGH is that the liberal-democratic concept of moral progress is at best subject to arbitrary will of the people -- in the right context, the public's ideas of moral progress can be harnessed to excuse military coups d'etat, rise of fascist dictatorship, enactment of eugenic massacres -- and at worst, self-serving bullshit wielded by opportunist magnates to justify their ambition. "In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same." There are female characters in the military and political spheres the show portrays, and they are the exception rather than the rule, as they are today, and they have to contend with varying degrees of sexism in those spheres, as they do today.
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Feb 2, 2016 04:01
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skasion posted:How many female generals are there in the world's military today, compared to men? How many were there in the German Reich? LoGH isn't Star Trek, it doesn't have any aspirations to portray a post-feminist future where all social ills have been worked out and equality, liberty, and fraternity are the order of the day. (Trek is also something of a sausage fest but you get what I mean.) In fact a major part of the theme of LoGH is that the liberal-democratic concept of moral progress is at best subject to arbitrary will of the people -- in the right context, the public's ideas of moral progress can be harnessed to excuse military coups d'etat, rise of fascist dictatorship, enactment of eugenic massacres -- and at worst, self-serving bullshit wielded by opportunist magnates to justify their ambition. "In every age, in every place, the deeds of men remain the same." There are female characters in the military and political spheres the show portrays, and they are the exception rather than the rule, as they are today, and they have to contend with varying degrees of sexism in those spheres, as they do today. I don't think sexism is something that LOGH ever addresses though. There are definitely women in positions of authority in civilian and military positions as well as in the Kaiser's court but a lot of the characters could easily have been women without any change to the story or the underlying themes it addresses. I think it was just a case of  rather than any deliberate attempt to highlight the inequality between the sexes throughout history.
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Feb 2, 2016 05:37
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Whether it was deliberate or not pretty much doesn't matter at all. Unintentional or tacit commentary on the role of women is still commentary on the role of women. The empire doesn't promote women to positions of military and political power because it's explicitly a patriarchal aristocracy where women are, if not exactly chattels, definitely at the mercy of a male guardian, and a liberal democratic audience watching the show can understand that because it fits with our historically informed preconceptions of what patriarchal aristocracies are like. However, while in the alliance women seem to be much more emancipated and legally responsible, the alliance also doesn't really have many women in positions of military and political power. And that some people in the audience find uncomfortable and troubling because it doesn't suit their preconceptions of what a liberal democratic society should be like, despite the fact that in the actual liberal democratic societies in which they live (and Japanese society in particular), women aren't really found in positions of military and political power in any great number. To change this fact would have been in a certain sense untrue to the world in which we actually live. It would have been a significant change to one of the big themes of the show, that liberal democratic societies are fond of talking the talk, but not so fond of actually doing any of the idealistic things it claims to be based in. The most powerful woman in the show doesn't attain power by being elected to office by the ostensibly sympathetic democratic-republican social system, she gets it by being the right arm of an enlightened despot. It's not presented as a negative thing that neither side has gender equality in the admiralty because it's not seriously considered a negative thing in our society today, of which the FPA is a critique, and it sure wasn't considered a negative thing in the premodern societies the empire is riffing off of.
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Feb 2, 2016 06:25
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skasion posted:However, while in the alliance women seem to be much more emancipated and legally responsible, the alliance also doesn't really have many women in positions of military and political power. Just poking in to remind you of Jessica Edwards, her campaign, and the fact that she was winning up until the thing. Also that 1 of the 6? people that made up the Alliance's cabinet was a woman. Though I'll readily admit that while she was probably inconsequential, she did have the loudest voice in continuing the war efforts against the empire. e: Dominique is an interesting woman in the show, though it's not clear how much power/influence she actually holds throughout. Sarcophallus fucked around with this message at 06:46 on Feb 2, 2016 |
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Feb 2, 2016 06:44
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Sarcophallus posted:Just poking in to remind you of Jessica Edwards, her campaign, and the fact that she was winning up until the thing. All the women not named Annerose are interesting characters, and it's a drat shame one of them misses out on being trained by the most dangerous hand-to-hand combatant in the series.
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Feb 2, 2016 06:52
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I thought Annerose was a pretty interesting character. We just didn't get to see more of her.
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Feb 2, 2016 07:02
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Sarcophallus posted:Just poking in to remind you of Jessica Edwards, her campaign, and the fact that she was winning up until the thing. Jessica is a great example of what I mean: a committed, fearless, pretty much indisputably righteous social activist who gets a "guards, this woman has lost her composure" and a jackboot to the head. I'm not saying that there's no strong female characters in LoGH, or even that none of them try to exert large-scale influence, but rather that they're shown to represent a small proportion of those in the corridors of power and on the front lines.
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Feb 2, 2016 13:12
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skasion posted:Jessica is a great example of what I mean: a committed, fearless, pretty much indisputably righteous social activist who gets a "guards, this woman has lost her composure" and a jackboot to the head. I'm not saying that there's no strong female characters in LoGH, or even that none of them try to exert large-scale influence, but rather that they're shown to represent a small proportion of those in the corridors of power and on the front lines. THe FPA and Empire share this fault, and is representative of both of them sucking massive balls.
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Feb 2, 2016 22:18
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skasion posted:Jessica is a great example of what I mean: a committed, fearless, pretty much indisputably righteous social activist who gets a "guards, this woman has lost her composure" and a jackboot to the head. I'm not saying that there's no strong female characters in LoGH, or even that none of them try to exert large-scale influence, but rather that they're shown to represent a small proportion of those in the corridors of power and on the front lines. I won't disagree with your general message, but as far as Truniht's quote goes - he is clearly not supposed to be the person that the viewer or the characters in the show were supposed to empathize with in that scenario. Drawing attention to the idea that there are people in this show (who are baddies) who infantilize women is not the same as the show promoting sexism.
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Feb 3, 2016 02:19
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Sarcophallus posted:I won't disagree with your general message, but as far as Truniht's quote goes - he is clearly not supposed to be the person that the viewer or the characters in the show were supposed to empathize with in that scenario. Drawing attention to the idea that there are people in this show (who are baddies) who infantilize women is not the same as the show promoting sexism. Many of the good guys don't have healthy attitudes towards women, either. Most notably Reuenthal. He actually gets called out on it, but there's also Schenkopp and Poplan.
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Feb 3, 2016 02:54
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LOGH isn't really a show I think of in terms of good guys and bad guys. There are good and bad people on both sides, and the good people aren't always consistently good. There's also the whole theme of war making saints out of sinners, the difference between a war hero and a war criminal being who won and who lost. Yang at one point even comments he ranks among the greatest mass murders in human history, millions of soldiers having lost their lives on his orders, because of his maneuvers and mistakes. I'm not fond of the way Schenkopp and Poplan treat women, but I don't consider the narrative's indifference to this a "Failure" or a "Problem." There are also several characters with more positive views on women and healthier relationships just in general. They're all human beings and they've all been thrown together to risk their lives in the giant melting pot of war; some are like this, some are like that; some are good, some are bad, but most are somewhere in between. It'd be weirder to me to pretend people like that doesn't exist, especially since they will likely continue to exist well into the future. In any case, Schenkopp's dalliances at least aren't shown to be without consequence considering he's got a daughter who's old enough to serve in the military and she hates him for being a deadbeat dad.
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Feb 3, 2016 05:24
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so what's the deal with Yang being all weird about Mashengo in that one episode? Did we ever figure that out? is Yang racist?
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Feb 3, 2016 06:22
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I interpreted that as Yang whining about the loss of his command authority, he wasn't supposed to be on board his ship, and his kid went and bought his friend/bodyguard along anyway.
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Feb 3, 2016 07:10
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I remember being annoyed about that as well. I probably posted about it. iirc Yang says something like "What is this?" while looking at Mashengo, who is a true hero btw.
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Feb 3, 2016 10:46
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Chas McGill posted:Mashengo, who is a true hero btw.
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Feb 3, 2016 10:49
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Feb 3, 2016 10:49
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maybe it just goes with what bad seaford says about characters being complex. like yang is a galactic hero, but hates blacks?
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Feb 3, 2016 14:22
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Isn't that the only time in the series he says something like that?
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Feb 3, 2016 14:28
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thunderchief posted:maybe it just goes with what bad seaford says about characters being complex. like yang is a galactic hero, but hates blacks? He doesn't seem to have any issue with Sitolet...? Actually, does the diverse alliance side really only have 2 black people total, and one of them a big guy body-guard, or am I forgetting something?
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Feb 3, 2016 14:31
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IIRC that image is taking that scene waaaay out of context.
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Feb 3, 2016 14:34
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Yang is just confused about black kirchies walking around. There also the black alliance guy during yang's escape from the alliance around ep60 Seriously though if you think that was supposed to be yang portrayed as racist and not a silly joke i dont know how you get through day to day life.
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Feb 3, 2016 14:49
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OddObserver posted:He doesn't seem to have any issue with Sitolet...? The alliance is made up of refugees from the empire, a state literally founded on ethnic nationalism and organized mass murder. I don't think it's stretching things too far to assume there's a bit of genocide at fault for everyone in the future being white.
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Feb 3, 2016 14:54
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It seemed pretty clear to me when I was doing my watch through that Yang was freaking because people were going over his head in imposing a bodyguard on him even in the command deck of his Flagship where he felt safe and didn't feel the need to be guarded 24/7. Or am I missing 
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Feb 3, 2016 16:08
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I had read previously - don't recall where - that that was a transliteration, and that in context he's not literally dehumanizing a cool dude.
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Feb 3, 2016 18:26
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DMM game's out. Looks Kantai as gently caress. Music's good.
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Feb 3, 2016 20:24
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Sarcophallus posted:I had read previously - don't recall where - that that was a transliteration, and that in context he's not literally dehumanizing a cool dude. Yeah, its a translation thing. Even in that situation an English speaker would never say that unless they were trying to be rude, but it's hard to think of another phrase CA could have used instead. e: I mean if you're watching fansubs you have to expect that some things are going to be phrased awkwardly. Maybe they should have just put a *this is not racist* note in. Yaoi Gagarin fucked around with this message at 00:03 on Feb 4, 2016 |
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Feb 4, 2016 00:00
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Wasn't Mashengo introduced as Yang's rescue party at Heinessen? Yang doesnt like to be babied on the lines.
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Feb 4, 2016 00:15
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I think Mashengo is in the background a little and then is first Frederica's bodyguard when she goes to heinessen, and then is picked for julian's when he goes to phezzan since he was so good at it. Mashengo is the best at punching out earth church guys too
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Feb 4, 2016 00:25
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Nate RFB posted:IIRC that image is taking that scene waaaay out of context. Oh of course, that's what makes it funny.
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Feb 4, 2016 02:22
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OddObserver posted:He doesn't seem to have any issue with Sitolet...? It could just be the animators being lazy. Aside from Yang, how many Chinese dudes are there in the series?
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Feb 4, 2016 02:46
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Kegslayer posted:Aside from Yang, how many Chinese dudes are there in the series? First one that comes to mind is Chung Wu-Cheng (aka Sandwich Admiral), who is a boss.
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Feb 4, 2016 02:53
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Kegslayer posted:It could just be the animators being lazy. Bewcock's buddy Cheng Wu-Cheng is pretty prominent. Lin Pao was an Alliance hero during its first war. OddObserver posted:He doesn't seem to have any issue with Sitolet...? There's always this guy 
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Feb 4, 2016 02:58
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mikeycp posted:Episode 3 of Anime Kiwi is live. It covers episodes 5-8. Just listened to this. Another Person gets so much poo poo from you two. Hang in there, AP! You guys have a great show going. It's a shame you talk rather softly because I usually listen to podcasts when I'm driving and I cannot make you guys out when I'm on the highway.
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Feb 4, 2016 03:45
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Patter Song posted:Just listened to this. Another Person gets so much poo poo from you two. Hang in there, AP! Please don't encourage him. The final product doesn't properly represent what it's like to deal with this. As for the volume, sorry about that. I tend to mix on the quieter side because it's easier to turn up quiet audio and retain sound quality than it is to do the reverse. I'll nudge Ep 4 up a little bit to see if that fixes things.
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Feb 4, 2016 05:17
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I watched this show for the first time by ADTRW's recommendation more than a couple years ago and loved every minute of it. I am currently rewatching it and just got to episode 39. Julian says goodbye to everyone before leaving Iserlohn for Phezzan. Knowing how the series unfolds, this was such a great episode. The interaction between Julian and everyone else just sets the stage for every philosophical position posited by the rest of the series. Thank you Something Awful for introducing me to this show. Also KoldPT posted:Uuuuhhhhhh I mean, ugly fucked around with this message at 06:53 on Feb 4, 2016 |
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Feb 4, 2016 06:29
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I liked the 2 movies and RIP Jean Robert. I called it once I realized he wanted to make a major life decisions. Here we go again in a new rabbit hole for the next few weeks.
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Feb 4, 2016 06:43
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Patter Song posted:Just listened to this. Another Person gets so much poo poo from you two. Hang in there, AP! Thanks for the support, the struggle for the truth is hard against Mikey and RB but I think I will pull through and prove them wrong. I got some big guns coming, I think I will win this endless war against me.
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Feb 4, 2016 09:16
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As for the question of how familiar the characters are with Earth history of our time or before (discussed above), remember throughout the series that it's supposed to be as chronologically removed from us as we are from Constantine. Someone like Yang Wenli knows about this, but he's a colossal history nerd.
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Feb 5, 2016 01:01
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when do reinhard and siegfried kiss
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Feb 5, 2016 04:29
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In ur dreams 2nite
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Feb 5, 2016 05:33
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