|
Tsyni posted:I understand, but I think the two keys to the argument against that are that they have told us we won't be called unless we can make the journey in the day. That's...probably a long time, who knows what will happen in between, and also, surviving the way home seems to be our most pressing concern. Our biggest issue has always been dealing with the immeadiate concern while ignoring the long term. Indebting ourselves here may seem great now - because we don't have to deal with the ramifications now. We avoid dealing with the death of the Gebebans by promising to do something next week, and then act like next week will never come. I'll pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today. It's a bad choice. We should just suck it up and deal with our choices, even if it means our deaths. Instead we're doubling down.
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 19:55
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 24, 2024 12:58 |
|
|
Basscop posted:It is especially hard when people in the thread are VOTING FOR TWO EQUALLY TERRIBLE AND WRONG options  I know that's why I screwed things up.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 19:58
|
|
|
Task Manager posted:Our biggest issue has always been dealing with the immeadiate concern while ignoring the long term. I think at least part of the issue is that doing a mystery task for friendly, advanced big civilisation sounds way more fun and rewarding than... Pretty much anything else
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 19:58
|
|
|
We will not survive A. It's as simple as that. Do you guys think we are going to find a friendly powerful human civ out there? I don't get the resistance to G, we are asking for a favor, they are cool with it as long as we give them a favor later. They are not hostile, and are the only friendly non Urian culture we have encountered. I say we do it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 20:00
|
|
|
We cannot be King with a split loyalty, at least not one that may be compelled
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 20:00
|
|
|
 Well I stand corrected. But I'd rather do this than even risk it. Didn't they say that they'll use it to force compliance if we refuse? I don't want any more beings loving with us or give them that chance. Remember Mosquito Mountain? Basically I'm voting A because: Tsyni posted:We have to leave blood behind...which voters (not diog) have decided is blood sorcery and it's better to pick A and die in the wasteland. Except I don't believe we'll die outright, but it won't be easy avoiding it either.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 20:01
|
|
|
G
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 20:02
|
|
|
dog kisser posted:I think at least part of the issue is that doing a mystery task for friendly, advanced big civilisation sounds way more fun and rewarding than... Pretty much anything else I must admit - at least from a story perspective, it's intriguing. I get the feeling we'll have plenty of time to hang with the bug bros pretty soon anyways, even without the promise. Cause we're gonna be banned. Hot Dog Day 80 posted:We will not survive A. It's as simple as that. Do you guys think we are going to find a friendly powerful human civ out there? I don't get the resistance to G, we are asking for a favor, they are cool with it as long as we give them a favor later. They are not hostile, and are the only friendly non Urian culture we have encountered. I say we do it. Then we should never have picked A (or whatever it was that started us on this march), and never convinced our men it was El's will! The resistance is because we're giving them a blank check. They even stated it likely will align with our morals, but no guarantees. They could ask us to do just about anything at anytime (once we are powerful enough), and we have to do it because they'll force compulsion with our blood if not. All this because we bit off more than we could chew, and are again flailing in the face of our own death. Task Manager fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Feb 3, 2016 |
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 20:05
|
|
|
Switching to G, my previous M vote was missed on the count.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 20:07
|
|
|
G only results in sorcery if we betray the bugpeople, and even then it's not us doing any sorcery, and its effects are limited to ourself. Calm your whatever it is you've gots, fishstick.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 20:09
|
|
|
If A is suicide then why the hell did the thread vote to march the Gebebans back to Zepath?????????? It's moments like this that make me symphathize with Ishamal and the melachim dudes. And i really hate doing that. So we've dug our own grave and you just want to keep digging and see if we come out on the other side? loving goddamn it guys. Lets just go and trust in our sneakiness and/or El's blessing in getting through this poo poo. We can always go hunger demon in the wilderness and carve out our own little crazy civilization if it goes to poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 20:15
|
|
|
Basscop posted:If A is suicide then why the hell did the thread vote to march the Gebebans back to Zepath?????????? Because at that point we didn't realize it was suicide that would also rend their immortal souls apart hth
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 20:17
|
|
|
Being in Ur doesn't save souls either fwiw, it is based on something else Probably will+supernatural power+divine aid
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 20:18
|
|
|
Basscop posted:If A is suicide then why the hell did the thread vote to march the Gebebans back to Zepath?????????? Because it was the best option at the time and now we have better options. Changing my m vote to G because 30% percent chance of screwing kavodel is better than 95% chance of death
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 20:19
|
|
|
Basscop posted:If A is suicide then why the hell did the thread vote to march the Gebebans back to Zepath?????????? Also because there was no other option. And now there is.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 20:20
|
|
|
Task Manager posted:I must admit - at least from a story perspective, it's intriguing. I get the feeling we'll have plenty of time to hang with the bug bros pretty soon anyways, even without the promise. At a certain point, the question becomes: Is it riskier to Kavodel for us to accept a boon that could come at a terrible time, or is it riskier for Kavodel for us to march a generation of it's most blooded men to their deaths? It's tough but I'm leaning towards the second one, which is why I'm voting G.  (although I'd rather vote M, bah)
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 20:23
|
|
|
I'm just going to leave this post here so that i can quote it the next time we meet Tudiya
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 20:23
|
|
|
That generation has bred, it'll be fine
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 20:23
|
|
|
SerSpook posted:We cannot be King with a split loyalty, at least not one that may be compelled Does anyone seriously still think we can become king of Zepath? We are part melachim, we can't rule over men. If we don't talk ourselves out of it, somebody else is going to later on.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 20:28
|
|
|
Nettle Soup posted:Does anyone seriously still think we can become king of Zepath? We are part melachim, we can't rule over men. If we don't talk ourselves out of it, somebody else is going to later on. Weird how we've been told the exact opposite by those who know, including acceptance by the Temple of El, as all kings are. If we can't be King it's due to loving up badly in the eyes of those that matter in that decision.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 20:31
|
|
|
We might get banned from Zepath too. I mean Zepa\Damat\The watchers of Zepath might just think that a half melachim with a leash being held by colony of bugs is bad news. I agree A will likely result in our death but do we really want to unleash a half melachim nuke upon the world?
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 20:32
|
|
|
Nettle Soup posted:We are part melachim, we can't rule over men. This is just wrong. We can absolutely rule over men. In fact, playing Civilization Ur is probably the thing that the thread would be good at. It's just that the melachim and PtB don't want us to rule over men. We could be a king like Amok. We could probably, given time, get a civilization strong and powerful enough to challenge Ur going. But it would just take time that we probably don't have. Sure Amok hosed up and had his people turn into hunger demons. But that was because he had a bunch of sons that were a quarter melachim and three quarters doomed. We just don't have sons and we're good. We should absolutely rule over men in a kingdom of our own where things like innovation and division of labor aren't heresy.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 20:34
|
|
|
Nettle Soup posted:Does anyone seriously still think we can become king of Zepath? We are part melachim, we can't rule over men. If we don't talk ourselves out of it, somebody else is going to later on. It comes down to the fact that we have zero interest in upholding the current status quo. Even if we did become king, we'd immediately going about trying to remodel society to our liking. Hell, we've already been doing that as Magistrate. We are entirely too detached from the idea of what it means to be a man in Ur to rule over it in that fashion. There Bias Two fucked around with this message at 20:38 on Feb 3, 2016 |
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 20:35
|
|
|
Blood magic is blood magic. Don't do it. We are responsible for the bugs too, which means that we have to handle these creatures. What happens when we get home? What happens when some mighty man gets spooked and gets in a fight? Stop loving making complications for Enkidel. We have enough bullshit going on, this is just one more mess we will put ourselves in. JUST GO HOME
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 20:37
|
|
|
When Tudya kills us, because we're a failure as a child, because we couldn't be responsible and deal with the consequences of our actions, I'll remind you all that you though making a bloodpact with an insect race we barely know anything about, was a better idea than TELLING THEM ABOUT OUR FUCKUP. APPARENTLY 600 LIVES IS WORTH MORE TO US THAN THE CITY AND PEOPLE WE'RE RESPONSIBLE FOR. APPARENTLY BLOOD MAGIC, THE BIGGEST NO-NO EVER, ONE THAT GOT US ALMOST KILLED BY ASHERA AND WHICH WE SWORE NEVER TO INDULGE IN, IS FINE IN THE NAME OF EXPEDIENCY. But fine, you want to risk having to abandon our family in their time of need? So be it. I'm fully on team "become a turnip farmer now." No more adventure. The thread isn't cut out for it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 20:38
|
|
|
There Bias Two posted:It comes down to the fact that we have zero interest in upholding the current status quo. Even if we did become king, we'd immediately going about trying to remodel society to our liking. Hell, we've already been doing that as Magistrate. We are allowed to do that with stipulations.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 20:39
|
|
|
I don't understand the leap of logic that makes giving someone else a sample of our blood the same as doing blood magic.SerSpook posted:We are allowed to do that with stipulations. Sure we are, but I question the wisdom of it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 20:42
|
|
|
Please don't let G win. I haven't been keeping track of the counts, because I am a mere man, but please merciful El, don't let G win.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 20:43
|
|
|
the_steve posted:Please don't let G win. Explain how A isn't a death march and I'll switch.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 20:44
|
|
|
Basscop posted:This is just wrong. Well, no, we can rule over men as king of Zepath - this has never, ever been shot down by Ishamal or the Melachim. We've asked at least two times whether it's acceptable for us to be king, and as I recall, we've never gotten a "no". Whether we'd be a good Zepathian king (which means mostly making judgements based on tradition - you know, that thing we spit all over on the regular) is a whole 'nother question.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 20:46
|
|
|
with regards to G I think the fact they're honest and upfront about it makes it much less likely they would actually do it. These guys are just reading the fine print to us. It almost seems like they don't see the value in lying to us. Quite franky these people shame our people. We've gone from "You're in our territory, pay the fine for tressssspasssssss and leave, or DIE!" to "have food, medicine, music while you tell us the old tales and such" to " stay with us if you want, we'll tell you about the dangers we know about, if you do a service for us we'll send some of our number to their deaths to help you, or leave some people with us and come back for them later." It could be that they realize that forcing us to do something against our will and moral code, when we're strong enough to get to their hive in a day could have serious repercussions wrt their continued survival.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 20:47
|
|
|
FoxTerrier posted:Explain how A isn't a death march and I'll switch. It is a death march. Its what we signed up for.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 20:51
|
|
|
Posting this idea so hopefully someone remembers to check. Since Kavodel cobducts a regular census, we should check if birth rates and harvest changed in our absence. Did the blessings of our town dissappear with our absence?
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 20:51
|
|
|
TheCog posted:It is a death march. sunk cost fallacy...refusing to try anything else just seems like self-flagellation
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 20:52
|
|
|
Ouroborus posted:with regards to G I think the fact they're honest and upfront about it makes it much less likely they would actually do it. These guys are just reading the fine print to us. It almost seems like they don't see the value in lying to us. Quite franky these people shame our people. We've gone from "You're in our territory, pay the fine for tressssspasssssss and leave, or DIE!" to "have food, medicine, music while you tell us the old tales and such" to " stay with us if you want, we'll tell you about the dangers we know about, if you do a service for us we'll send some of our number to their deaths to help you, or leave some people with us and come back for them later." I wouldn't bet on that. I do think they will turn the screws if they have to, but I think they will keep their word - one service, only when we're powerful enough, and only when we can reach their Hive in a day. That's a fairly good deal, and they're being refreshingly honest about the terms.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 20:53
|
|
|
Tsyni posted:sunk cost fallacy...refusing to try anything else just seems like self-flagellation No, the sunk cost fallacy is saying "we'll we're already banned from Ur, might as well do some questionable things, like an unbreakable oath to a species we don't know all that much about"
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 20:54
|
|
|
Tsyni posted:sunk cost fallacy...refusing to try anything else just seems like self-flagellation I'm so confused that we keep agreeing...it feels...so wrong. But so right.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 20:55
|
|
|
quote:You will not use the flesh nor blood nor spirit of any man for sorcery for I swear unto you, it is seen by They Who Watch and- the voice grows louder an the trees begin to shake, Snarls runs behind you, afraid, the light of the obelisk turns to flame and burns brightly and with great heat We pledged ourselves not to do this. Some years later, we're going to make a pledge that requires doing it. If we go through with that, how are our promises worth anything?
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 20:55
|
|
|
Tsyni posted:sunk cost fallacy...refusing to try anything else just seems like self-flagellation It is almost like we forgot that we died a few weeks ago after biting off more than we could chew.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 20:55
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 24, 2024 12:58 |
|
|
FoxTerrier posted:Explain how A isn't a death march and I'll switch. Counterpoint: Explain how G isn't blood magic with rules lawyering and i'll switch.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2016 20:57
|
|