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King Burgundy
Sep 17, 2003

I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!

Captain Foo posted:

bad town != scummy, and i think claiming miller right off the bat is always good play, but ymmv on that one


JakeP posted:

What the gently caress does that matter? He was asked why they are scum, not why they are bad mafia players

Oh, my bad. Well then that part sucks too. Though he is right about it being bad to push me. :)

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King Burgundy
Sep 17, 2003

I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!

Captain Foo posted:

i think claiming miller right off the bat is always good play, but ymmv on that one

I normally agree with you, but this game is an exception since it's a BP miller in an open setup. There is no reason to claim at all until you've eaten a bullet.

imgay
May 12, 2014

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
What u mean, we know there's one Miller and it can be counterclaimed, pretty much h town

Soaring Kestrel
Nov 7, 2009

For Whiterock.
Fun Shoe

King Burgundy posted:

I normally agree with you, but this game is an exception since it's a BP miller in an open setup. There is no reason to claim at all until you've eaten a bullet.

I disagree, because the overriding philosophy should still be to avoid wasting a cop investigation. Granted, that's kinda moot now, but at the time...

King Burgundy
Sep 17, 2003

I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!

Flying Leatherman posted:

I disagree, because the overriding philosophy should still be to avoid wasting a cop investigation. Granted, that's kinda moot now, but at the time...

Naw. Cop is one person. There are two kills. Chances are MUCH greater he'll waste a scum or SK kill then he'll waste a cop investigation, if he doesn't claim.

Truth Quark
Mar 21, 2010

:ffg:
EAT THE DONUTS
:ffg:

Flying Leatherman posted:

Hello!


I agree with this post.

I didn't like Lumpen pushing so hard last night even after GulagDolls claimed. Lumpen, other than my not posting until right now, what do you find scummy about my play, or are you still operating off the same assumptions as last game day?


The tone of this post sounds genuine to me.

Jake brought up some good points on the stuff Metos has said and I agree that they're super sketchy cases. I'd vote him.

Lumpen if you want to update my chart you can put down yourself, Metos, and Foo

Is this all we get from the long awaited FL post? If people are going to get on my case because I'm supposedly parroting what other players are saying why does this get a pass? Not to mention this point only appears after people start pointing out FL is lurking again. Which he also did D1. You can get mad at Trasson, Metos, and myself if you'd like for the mafia faux pas we have undoubtedly committed, hell I'd even vote for Metos myself out of OMGUS and the "if he's town he's actively hurting us so why not vote for him?" line.

Flying Leatherman how about you give us a list of three people you'd vote for with actual logic behind them instead of just "I agree with what that guy said." I get that it gets harder as the day progresses because people have already pointed out the easy ones, but you literally did not give a single reason for why you think Foo is suspicious.

At this point I would vote for either FL or Metos, and if absolutely pressed to name a third, would keep Puntification on the list.

Truth Quark
Mar 21, 2010

:ffg:
EAT THE DONUTS
:ffg:
For now I'll ##vote Metos to give FL a chance to say something

Soaring Kestrel
Nov 7, 2009

For Whiterock.
Fun Shoe

Friction.123 posted:

Is this all we get from the long awaited FL post? If people are going to get on my case because I'm supposedly parroting what other players are saying why does this get a pass? Not to mention this point only appears after people start pointing out FL is lurking again. Which he also did D1. You can get mad at Trasson, Metos, and myself if you'd like for the mafia faux pas we have undoubtedly committed, hell I'd even vote for Metos myself out of OMGUS and the "if he's town he's actively hurting us so why not vote for him?" line.

Flying Leatherman how about you give us a list of three people you'd vote for with actual logic behind them instead of just "I agree with what that guy said." I get that it gets harder as the day progresses because people have already pointed out the easy ones, but you literally did not give a single reason for why you think Foo is suspicious.

At this point I would vote for either FL or Metos, and if absolutely pressed to name a third, would keep Puntification on the list.

Hi Friction! How was I lurking D1? I think that's a mischaracterization, especially when I gave pretty clear reasons for thinking what I thought yesterday, and engaged with people.

While we're on the subject of mischaracterizations, I gave a reason for my read on Lumpen in the post that you quoted, so "I agree with what that guy said" is really kind of not what actually happened there. As for Metos, I honestly don't have anything to add. I think that Jake brought up a good point, and they are some really sketchy cases. I don't know what to tell you there, other than occasionally I will find other people's cases compelling because Mafia is a game where that happens sometimes.

I'll admit that the Foo read was not logicked in that post, so my bad! Partly it's because of something somebody told me in my first real game here - it feels like observation without analysis. He makes a lot of observations and reads, but doesn't provide support for them. There are some exceptions, but it's still something that bugged me. His D2 posting has been better on the whole, but it's still the pattern that I see.

Soaring Kestrel
Nov 7, 2009

For Whiterock.
Fun Shoe
Mafia edit: something somebody told me about my own posts and cases in my first game here

Truth Quark
Mar 21, 2010

:ffg:
EAT THE DONUTS
:ffg:
Thank you for responding in a perfectly reasonable and non-antagonistic matter. Seems to be a rarity amongst the one line zingers and smug posts that permeate this game. I am more or less satisfied but I'll have to check your linked posts about Foo when I am not phone bound.

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

i think you will find that at least 2/5 of his linked posts about how i am not backing up my claims rather silly

Soaring Kestrel
Nov 7, 2009

For Whiterock.
Fun Shoe

Captain Foo posted:

i think you will find that at least 2/5 of his linked posts about how i am not backing up my claims rather silly

How so? I mean, do you find it to be an unfair criticism? I'm perfectly willing to admit that you're providing reasoning in some of your more recent posts (which is helping me a lot in terms of figuring things out), but in general trying to read you is really, really challenging. Maybe it's on me because I'm reading in a vacuum, but I feel like I have to go back and read your entire filter every time I want to figure out your general feeling on somebody, and it's only day 2. There's no aggregation, it's just "this post is bad" or "I wouldn't vote this dude".

imgay
May 12, 2014

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
I bet to is scum, don't let that cute cat lull you into a sense of complacency.

Soaring Kestrel
Nov 7, 2009

For Whiterock.
Fun Shoe

Flying Leatherman posted:

How so? I mean, do you find it to be an unfair criticism? I'm perfectly willing to admit that you're providing reasoning in some of your more recent posts (which is helping me a lot in terms of figuring things out), but in general trying to read you is really, really challenging. Maybe it's on me because I'm reading in a vacuum, but I feel like I have to go back and read your entire filter every time I want to figure out your general feeling on somebody, and it's only day 2. There's no aggregation, it's just "this post is bad" or "I wouldn't vote this dude".

basically what I'm saying is that I would have liked to see a "because" clause in all 5 of the examples I linked. I'd give a pass on KB because you did give some analysis later, but the other four really stood out as opinions in a vacuum, if that image makes sense.

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

Flying Leatherman posted:

basically what I'm saying is that I would have liked to see a "because" clause in all 5 of the examples I linked. I'd give a pass on KB because you did give some analysis later, but the other four really stood out as opinions in a vacuum, if that image makes sense.

imgay being not new isn't an opinion and trying to lump that post in with the others is :sun: disingenuous :sun:

Soaring Kestrel
Nov 7, 2009

For Whiterock.
Fun Shoe

Captain Foo posted:

imgay being not new isn't an opinion and trying to lump that post in with the others is :sun: disingenuous :sun:

I meant to link the post immediately above that. Thank you for pointing it out.

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

Flying Leatherman posted:

I meant to link the post immediately above that. Thank you for pointing it out.

:tipshat:

either way i think you will find that providing play-by-play observations is significantly, dramatically worse and unhelpful than providing reads with or without deep explanation

observations are useless, reads are me making a statement about the state of the game, so in conclusion to your case


nah

Puntification
Nov 4, 2009

Black Orthodontromancy
The most British Magic

Fun Shoe

Friction.123 posted:

"Playing it safe" with two targets no one else is going after anymore (or at all in your case). Apparently making accusations about someone who replaces out is scum in which God help us if I'm right since no one can safely accuse you. Nice cop out/deflection I guess though. For your last point I've been asking all thread (because guess what I've never played with you gently caress ups before) about imgay's... unique posting style before and no one has bothered to say anything, until I accuse you and suddenly you deign to respond?

This entire posts says a lot of words to discredit me by doesn't actually refute what I said. LOL EZ is not a response. And I don't get your smoke screen comment at all, like am I making a smoke screen or am I pointing out someone else who is? If the latter (I guess with my comment about tv show derails) then how is that not a valid scum hunting tactic?

I called it safe because your primary read was hung off lumpen's opinion and the others are defacto policy lynches for lurking and shitposting, these are uncontroversial positions but they conflate bad play with scumminess, it's cargo cult scumhunting. Refuting stuff would have required you to have demonstrated scummy behaviour in the first place and attacking a replacement player for suspiciously only responding after they started playing is so ridiculous I hope you have the decency to be embarrassed.

Can you expand on the logic of thinking KB voting someone who you think is town is scummy please, why can't town be wrong or hold different opinions in your view?

I thought you wrote smokescreen instead of cover for some reason but I meant this remark:

Friction.123 posted:

I also think that the whole lets wait until D3 thing (which Asiina insisted on but JakeP did not) was some kind of cover to avoid discussions when she needed to.

It was a pre-start up joke referenced once in-game when she had little to no need to avoid the discussion: that is no kind of cover/smokescreen your point just makes no sense.

King Burgundy posted:

Yeah, I can see this now. I'd vote Friction. What do you think of Lumpen though?

I didn't like his behaviour around the lynch or the way he's assuming authority of town demanding people accommodate him and his desire to complete his graph, and his lumpen list seemed rather arbitrary in places. But generally I don't tend to like his behaviour and often his obnoxiousness is inversely correlated to scumminess in my experience so I'm reserving judgment for the time being.

GulagDolls
Jun 4, 2011

JakeP posted:

im down to vote trasson but I want everyone to take a close look at metos

i'd kill that guy. and also this next guy.

King Burgundy posted:

(1)*Went out of your way to make sure the town cop got cuddled
*Trying to seem extra helpful to town to raise your town cred
*Going after low hanging fruit rather than actually scum hunting. (expanding on this one, but your meta case on me and Trasson's super lovely posting are both SUPER easy to chase.)

----

(2)I think Trasson is likely town, for the reasons Asiina posted before you trolled her out of the game.

(1) as the person who got murdered by democracy, even I can't really fault lumpen for encouraging that to happen. It was gonna happen anyway. It may have been better to let me live and see if a counterclaim occurred today, but it's not really fair to expect someone to make the most logically optimal decision in such a short time frame. I say this because it took like two minutes for the idea "yeah I should claim" to sink in.
as for him trying to seem extra helpful, making charts and making obnoxious power level lists is what the dude does.. in like literally every game. I don't see how this or going after more obvious scum instead of attempting to catch ghosts is indicative of alignment. all three of these reasons seem like major grasping for straws

(2)

Trasson posted:

Why is Billy a ninja? How is Billy a ninja? Can we roll that into his custom BSG character somehow?

Also just letting you all know right now if the Doctor dies and I inherit I'm going to say "Winter is Coming" over and over until I get lynched. You have been warned.

Asiina posted:

So I totally reversed my position on Trasson, and I want to explain why in case I happen to die in the night cause I think he'll get railroaded D2.

I missed this post yesterday, but I believe in it


This was just after the role PMs were added to the OP. This is Trasson 1) Not knowing the flavour of the scum players and 2) soft-claiming backup. I think he did the second one unintentionally. This doesn't feel like a calculated "I'm so townie!" scum post, but something more earnest. That combined with his explanation of his post from last night I already commented on, I very strongly think this guy is new town.


as jakep said, this is like, the most nulltell thing ever. in recorded history. the dude just made the claim that every player is literally required to make if we're not doing massclaim poo poo. i don't believe that THIS makes you think he's town when you've also characterized his posting as super lovely.

GulagDolls
Jun 4, 2011

ihave to go to the bank but i'll post stuff about friction when I get back

imgay
May 12, 2014

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Gulag want to make an anime club on spaceship

JakeP
Apr 27, 2003

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Lipstick Apathy

imgay posted:

Gulag want to make an anime club on spaceship

i'll join, not because i like anime, but because i feel a need to fit in

Truth Quark
Mar 21, 2010

:ffg:
EAT THE DONUTS
:ffg:
Say what you want Gulag, I'm kinda done with this game. I didn't expect the level of meta you guys apparently play at, where everyone has their scum tells already figured out, and quite frankly I don't care enough to go through and figure it all out so I can play "correctly". I'd rather just lurk and be lynched, and save myself the headache. When I flip town and you've wasted another lynch I can just read the thread and not give two shits about appearing town anymore.

Kashuno
Oct 9, 2012

Where the hell is my SWORD?
Grimey Drawer
you're nowhere near being lynched.

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

Friction.123 posted:

Say what you want Gulag, I'm kinda done with this game. I didn't expect the level of meta you guys apparently play at, where everyone has their scum tells already figured out, and quite frankly I don't care enough to go through and figure it all out so I can play "correctly". I'd rather just lurk and be lynched, and save myself the headache. When I flip town and you've wasted another lynch I can just read the thread and not give two shits about appearing town anymore.
what

Kashuno
Oct 9, 2012

Where the hell is my SWORD?
Grimey Drawer
Half this game is people who are either new or haven't played in a while. Meta stuff is really d1 stuff, and honestly a lot of the cases are not even meta things at all. That post is fake as gently caress.

JakeP
Apr 27, 2003

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Lipstick Apathy
Yeah I dont think I made a reference to anyones meta all game, and don't remember any casework really relying on it

imgay
May 12, 2014

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
kash is scum anyways, a scummy dude. but town

JakeP
Apr 27, 2003

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Lipstick Apathy
The way that is brought up feels like it was a result of a conversation he was having with his scumbuddies really, it doesn't feel organic at all to whats actually happening in the thread

JakeP
Apr 27, 2003

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Lipstick Apathy

imgay posted:

kash is scum anyways, a scummy dude. but town

ya what a peice of poo poo

King Burgundy
Sep 17, 2003

I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!

GulagDolls posted:

(1) as the person who got murdered by democracy, even I can't really fault lumpen for encouraging that to happen.

That doesn't seem to be what you felt at the time:

GulagDolls posted:

WHY DID YOU CRETINS DO THIS!!!!!!

King Burgundy
Sep 17, 2003

I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!

Friction.123 posted:

Say what you want Gulag, I'm kinda done with this game. I didn't expect the level of meta you guys apparently play at, where everyone has their scum tells already figured out, and quite frankly I don't care enough to go through and figure it all out so I can play "correctly". I'd rather just lurk and be lynched, and save myself the headache. When I flip town and you've wasted another lynch I can just read the thread and not give two shits about appearing town anymore.

Uh huh.

King Burgundy
Sep 17, 2003

I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!

Looks like I'll probably be at dinner during the last hour before deadline. Let's figure out what we are doing early this time. :)

imgay
May 12, 2014

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

King Burgundy posted:

Looks like I'll probably be at dinner during the last hour before deadline. Let's figure out what we are doing early this time. :)
I'm in theater for 445 kungfu panda, heard its best anime of the year, so I won't read for like 2 hrs.

Kashuno
Oct 9, 2012

Where the hell is my SWORD?
Grimey Drawer

imgay posted:

I'm in theater for 445 kungfu panda, heard its best anime of the year, so I won't read for like 2 hrs.

story checks out

Puntification
Nov 4, 2009

Black Orthodontromancy
The most British Magic

Fun Shoe

Friction.123 posted:

Say what you want Gulag, I'm kinda done with this game. I didn't expect the level of meta you guys apparently play at, where everyone has their scum tells already figured out, and quite frankly I don't care enough to go through and figure it all out so I can play "correctly". I'd rather just lurk and be lynched, and save myself the headache. When I flip town and you've wasted another lynch I can just read the thread and not give two shits about appearing town anymore.

If you don't wanna play, replace out. It's what all the cool kids are doing atm

JakeP
Apr 27, 2003

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Lipstick Apathy

King Burgundy posted:

That doesn't seem to be what you felt at the time:

Come on are you being serious here? (or are you kidding like Gulag obviously was in that post)

Or do you honestly think that Gulag genuinely called us all Cretins unironically

King Burgundy
Sep 17, 2003

I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!

JakeP posted:

Come on are you being serious here? (or are you kidding like Gulag obviously was in that post)

Or do you honestly think that Gulag genuinely called us all Cretins unironically

I'm just loving with him.

JakeP
Apr 27, 2003

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Lipstick Apathy
:coal:

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JakeP
Apr 27, 2003

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Lipstick Apathy

imgay posted:

I'm in theater for 445 kungfu panda, heard its best anime of the year, so I won't read for like 2 hrs.

if imgay posts any spoilers can we have him modkilled please

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