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Getting ahead of myself a bit I see Ultimate Comics Ultimates & X-Men are these retellings or continuations of the stories on Ultimate X-men and Ultimates?
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Feb 3, 2016 22:10
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Continuations.
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Feb 3, 2016 22:18
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Ultragonk posted:Also after seeing more of Stark in The Ultimates I have no idea what was going through Scott Card's head with Ultimate Iron Man I and II other than *GASP* "I know, I'll rub goo on Stark and Obidiah Stane can be a fat psychopath! Genius!" Orson Scott Card is a crazy rear end in a top hat and terrible writer is what happened. This is a man who suggested violent revolution would be a good idea if gay marriage became unilaterally legal in America, yet wrote an extremely homoerotic novel in the form of Enders Game. The message of that amounted to "Hitler was cool and good" btw.
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Feb 3, 2016 23:13
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Lightning Lord posted:Orson Scott Card is a crazy rear end in a top hat and terrible writer is what happened. This is a man who suggested violent revolution would be a good idea if gay marriage became unilaterally legal in America, yet wrote an extremely homoerotic novel in the form of Enders Game. The message of that amounted to "Hitler was cool and good" btw. Lets not forget how he rewrote Hamlet where King Hamlet is a pedophile who molested Laertes, Horatio, and Rosencrantz and Guildenstern, and implication that this in turn made them homosexuals
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Feb 3, 2016 23:39
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I've read that "Ender's Game is Hitler apologia" essay too and it's never ever been persuasive to me. Ender commits genocide because he thinks it's a video game and is sick of the bullshit "games" he's been asked to win and his reasoning is basically "I'll show you assholes how unfit I am for actual command and then you'll leave me alone", he's horrified when he finds out what they duped him into, and then it turns out that the Buggers were precisely zero threat and just talking to them was a completely viable solution, and Ender spends literally the rest of his life atoning. That's a long drat way from Hitler Had Some Good Ideas. Speaker for the Dead is poo poo, but it's telling how hard that essay has to lean on it while ignoring or misrepresenting some awfully key moments in Ender's Game.
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Feb 3, 2016 23:57
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If you told me that Ender's Game thought Hitler was right, then I'd assume you were talking about Ender's brother and sister.
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Feb 4, 2016 01:22
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Are you guys talking about "Creating the Innocent Killer: Ender's Game, Intention, and Morality"? Because it's not arguing that Ender's Game is apologia for Hitler specifically. It's arguing that Ender's Game is a story explicitly constructed to create a protagonist that is sympathetic while commiting genocide. Or is there another essay about Ender's Game in that vein that I'm not aware of?
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Feb 4, 2016 01:28
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Idran posted:Are you guys talking about "Creating the Innocent Killer: Ender's Game, Intention, and Morality"? Because it's not arguing that Ender's Game is apologia for Hitler specifically. It's arguing that Ender's Game is a story explicitly constructed to create a protagonist that is sympathetic while commiting genocide. I haven't read the other one, but just off your description: yes, of course Ender's game is a story explicitly constructed to create a protagonist that is sympathetic while commiting genocide. Because it's crystal clear that the genocide was a terrible, unjustified thing and the protagonist was duped into it. If you want to reflect that back on Nazism in any way, (and Card's been unequivocal that he didn't mean any Nazi analogies, but gently caress it, neither did Tolkien and that don't mean they're not there), it's reminding you that the kids in Nazi uniforms were probably really nice people who honestly didn't know what they were doing was wrong. If that's a disquieting thought, good, because it ought to be.
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Feb 4, 2016 01:46
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CapnAndy posted:There is. I'm referring to Ender and Hitler: Sympathy for the Superman, which is completely all-in on calling it apologia for Hitler specifically -- witness the frankly crazy paragraphs ranting about how both Hitler and Ender were third children. 
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Feb 4, 2016 02:16
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Here's basic descriptions of three books that Orson Scott Card might have written. Pick the false one. Middle-aged Mormon house flipper dude moves into a haunted house. He gets possessed by the spirit of the house and marries an underage girl. The last two parts are only tangentially related. Mormon programmer guy moves his family to a new state for a new job. His coworker is a child molester, his landlord is always around, his son has imaginary friends who have the names of missing kids. His son's teacher is a bitch. The house gets infested by bugs several times. There's a killer, and it's not one of the super-creepy people. Time travelers find out someone hosed with Christopher Columbus, causing the Native Americans to invade Europe. They decide to try to improve the past. Due to the rules of Time Travel, one of the people has to have his dick pierced several times with valuable materials. This is gone into with too much detail. Time travel is one direction only. they're all OSC novels, motherfucker. He's got some major loving issues, and should probably be put, along with Piers Anthony, onto some kind of list.
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Feb 4, 2016 02:38
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kizudarake posted:Here's basic descriptions of three books that Orson Scott Card might have written. Pick the false one. Don't forget the one about a psychic worm monster that summons a young teenage girl in order to have sex to create some kind of space messiah.
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Feb 4, 2016 02:51
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Lightning Lord posted:Don't forget the one about a psychic worm monster that summons a young teenage girl in order to have sex to create some kind of space messiah. I didn't read that one as a teenager.
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Feb 4, 2016 03:00
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Let he who is without statutory rape parasite cast the first stone.
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Feb 4, 2016 03:01
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None of that seems significantly worse than Heinlein, really.
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Feb 4, 2016 14:49
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yoscpos, bithc yo, orson scott card is a piece of poo poo
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Feb 4, 2016 15:05
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Endless Mike posted:None of that seems significantly worse than Heinlein, really. I don't think Heinlein actually believed anything he wrote, his stuff is all over the place ideologically. Stranger in a Strange Land and Moon is a Harsh Mistress espouse diametrically opposed philosophies.
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Feb 4, 2016 20:31
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zoux posted:I don't think Heinlein actually believed anything he wrote, his stuff is all over the place ideologically. Stranger in a Strange Land and Moon is a Harsh Mistress espouse diametrically opposed philosophies. No, no, I'm pretty sure that if you write a book that has a murderer in it, that means you like to murder.
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Feb 4, 2016 20:37
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Your being sarcastic but that is true more times then not.
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Feb 5, 2016 01:40
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CharlestheHammer posted:Your being sarcastic but that is true more times then not. George RRMartin wishes he was Oliver Cromwell?
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Feb 5, 2016 01:45
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There are two kinds of folks who sit around thinking about how to kill people: psychopaths and mystery writers. I'm the kind that pays bitter.
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Feb 5, 2016 01:46
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zoux posted:I don't think Heinlein actually believed anything he wrote, his stuff is all over the place ideologically. Stranger in a Strange Land and Moon is a Harsh Mistress espouse diametrically opposed philosophies. Nah, he started out as a pretty strong liberal back in the 30s and 40s, but by the 60s he was total anarchist/libertarian; Professor La Paz was essentially a political self-insert by the time "Moon is a Harsh Mistress" was published. He was just all about free love for the entirety of his life too, which is where all the weird sex stuff in his books came from. His contemporaries - Asimov, Clarke, so on, the general Golden Age sci fi community - they all said pretty much the same thing about him. I'm pretty sure I remember Asimov actually mentioning in one of his biographies how annoying Heinlein's late career political swing was, even, because he was extremely vocal about his political beliefs to just about anyone that'd listen.
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Feb 5, 2016 02:08
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CharlestheHammer posted:Your being sarcastic but that is true more times then not. drat I never knew that about Truman Capote
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Feb 5, 2016 04:34
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:drat I never knew that about Truman Capote He is the one who kills mockingbirds
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Feb 5, 2016 04:36
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kizudarake posted:George RRMartin wishes he was Oliver Cromwell? With a dash of pedophila yeah.
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Feb 5, 2016 04:51
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:drat I never knew that about Truman Capote
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Feb 5, 2016 05:06
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Idran posted:Nah, he started out as a pretty strong liberal back in the 30s and 40s, but by the 60s he was total anarchist/libertarian; Professor La Paz was essentially a political self-insert by the time "Moon is a Harsh Mistress" was published. He was just all about free love for the entirety of his life too, which is where all the weird sex stuff in his books came from. Hmm too bad. This seems to happen with a lot of sci fi authors.
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Feb 5, 2016 05:09
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Heinlein was the first creator of any media to betray me by just muscling in with his own personal bullshit until all the art was just buried under their obvious weird neuroses. And then you look back and all the warning signs are just glaring out at you from stuff you used to enjoy. He wasn't the only one -- looking right at you, Frank Miller -- but he was the first. I think the only Heinlein books I still really like are Starship Troopers and Double Star, because THERE'S NO loving SEX IN THEM AT ALL.
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Feb 5, 2016 05:17
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Even I'm embarrassed by how heavy handed and ridiculous the messages of the original Starship Troopers is. Like the movie satirically predicting the war on terror, the book comes across as something a post-9/11 OUR TROOPS kind of guy would crank out.
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Feb 5, 2016 05:33
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WickedHate posted:Even I'm embarrassed by how heavy handed and ridiculous the messages of the original Starship Troopers is. Like the movie satirically predicting the war on terror, the book comes across as something a post-9/11 OUR TROOPS kind of guy would crank out. Seriously though, the book spends several pages on "men are not potatoes" and yet "men are also not dogs" doesn't seem to register at all with Heinlein, it's amazing.
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Feb 5, 2016 05:48
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WickedHate posted:Even I'm embarrassed by how heavy handed and ridiculous the messages of the original Starship Troopers is. Like the movie satirically predicting the war on terror, the book comes across as something a post-9/11 OUR TROOPS kind of guy would crank out. I'd have figured you dug Starship Troopers because of it's advocacy for genocide,
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Feb 5, 2016 06:33
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CapnAndy posted:Oh sure, but it's still an extremely entertaining read. And I read these books as a kid, so starting to be able to put into words why exactly I disagreed with the book was really helpful to me in defining my personal politics. That's how I feel about Atlas Shrugged, without the "entertaining read" part. Read it in High School and slowly making my way through it I started realizing, page by page, that everything about it and what Ayn Rand advocated was ridiculous.
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Feb 5, 2016 08:20
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kizudarake posted:George RRMartin wishes he was Oliver Cromwell? Who wouldn't? You get to chop the king's head off, kill Irish people, generally get to be a bit of a fascist.
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Feb 5, 2016 13:45
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Skwirl posted:Continuations. Excellent, thanks. I think I would have hated it if it had been a new start. Lightning Lord posted:Orson Scott Card is a crazy rear end in a top hat and terrible writer is what happened. This is a man who suggested violent revolution would be a good idea if gay marriage became unilaterally legal in America, yet wrote an extremely homoerotic novel in the form of Enders Game. The message of that amounted to "Hitler was cool and good" btw. He is mental. I just finished the Return of the King storyline and I thought it was really good. Helped put a finishing touch to the Ultimate War story, helped bring Cyclops back and I loved the way he nearly blew Wolverine's head off but then went and apologised to him because he believes in Xavier's mission.
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Feb 5, 2016 18:21
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I've been hearing that Karnak #2 had been delayed because artist Gerardo Zaffino "had a truly horrible year" (per Warren Ellis' newsletter) and there's a new artist on the book. I don't want to pry, but has anything been said publicly about what happened? 
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Feb 7, 2016 22:09
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Found out today that Ultimate Doom isn't about Dr. Doom. As you can Imagine I'm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdEQmpVIE4A
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Feb 7, 2016 22:40
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Well, one could argue that point after the fact. Ultimate Reed Richards is like a Dr. Doom but actually effective.
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Feb 7, 2016 22:56
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Have Mike Allred's early, pre-Madman comics ever been collected anywhere? I've always wanted to read Grafik Muzik, Graphique Musique, Dead Air, and Creatures of the Id, but the back issues are super-rare and tend to be pricey. Who would even own the reprint rights to those now, considering Image has published the most recent Madman collections?
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Feb 8, 2016 05:51
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Big Bad Voodoo Lou posted:Have Mike Allred's early, pre-Madman comics ever been collected anywhere? I've always wanted to read Grafik Muzik, Graphique Musique, Dead Air, and Creatures of the Id, but the back issues are super-rare and tend to be pricey. Who would even own the reprint rights to those now, considering Image has published the most recent Madman collections? They have been but I have no idea if they are in print. There was an edition yeeeeeears ago just called Madman Comics that had everything up to a certain point and then Madman Adventures (i think) that collected the rest up to the Dark Horse series.
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Feb 8, 2016 05:58
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Big Bad Voodoo Lou posted:Have Mike Allred's early, pre-Madman comics ever been collected anywhere? I've always wanted to read Grafik Muzik, Graphique Musique, Dead Air, and Creatures of the Id, but the back issues are super-rare and tend to be pricey. Who would even own the reprint rights to those now, considering Image has published the most recent Madman collections? Grafik Muzik: No Graphique Musique: Nope Dead Air: Sorry Creatures of the Id: Yes!
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Feb 8, 2016 06:00
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redbackground posted:Grafik Muzik: No Thank you, but dammit! I own an older edition of the Madman Adventures TPB from Tundra that doesn't include it. Time to upgrade!
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Feb 8, 2016 06:29
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