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Looks to be a boring as gently caress week at work. Anybody have a good technical article on active suspension? Everything I found just brushed past the actual workings of the system.
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Feb 8, 2016 23:40
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MattD1zzl3 posted:I have to imagine this means a Red, white and blue HAAS. 
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Feb 8, 2016 23:46
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learnincurve posted:The great john's new helmet is the gulf livery colours with the old Renault blue..... aka "blue and orange"
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Feb 8, 2016 23:47
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1500quidporsche posted:Looks to be a boring as gently caress week at work. Anybody have a good technical article on active suspension? Everything I found just brushed past the actual workings of the system. I'm searching for one and yeah none of the articles really dive into how exactly the 99T's or FW14's suspensions work.
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Feb 9, 2016 00:30
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This however is pretty neat; http://www.grandprixengines.co.uk/
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Feb 9, 2016 00:32
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Human Grand Prix posted:I'm searching for one and yeah none of the articles really dive into how exactly the 99T's or FW14's suspensions work. The closest I've been able to find was an Andretti interview where he lays out the grand conspiracy of how he was forced out of McLaren because Bernie wanted to say US drivers were bad so turned the active suspension off for qualifying or some other idiotic thing. And the McLaren system he described sounded relatively crude.
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Feb 9, 2016 01:49
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Human Grand Prix posted:This however is pretty neat; This is cool, thanks.
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Feb 9, 2016 02:12
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Human Grand Prix posted:This however is pretty neat; Yo, why you posting porn up in here?
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Feb 9, 2016 02:15
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Human Grand Prix posted:This however is pretty neat; I literally lost track of three hours just by "taking a peek"
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Feb 9, 2016 03:16
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Norns posted:Yo, why you posting porn up in here? Seriously, it's super inconsiderate
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Feb 9, 2016 03:34
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1500quidporsche posted:The closest I've been able to find was an Andretti interview where he lays out the grand conspiracy of how he was forced out of McLaren because Bernie wanted to say US drivers were bad so turned the active suspension off for qualifying or some other idiotic thing. And the McLaren system he described sounded relatively crude. Andretti was pretty bad in F1 but it must be said his MP4/8 had issues, the suspension would interpret the data wrong occasionally and make the car do bizzare things like bottom out mid corner.
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Feb 9, 2016 05:40
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That's more or less what he said, its been a year or two since I've read the article but McLaren's system had a series of beacons at every corner that would blast out the frequency and the car would see it was at whatever corner and adjust the suspension for that corner. He's maintained his car would always work up until qualifying where it would start mishandling. How much truth there is to that who knows, but he does seem to have way too much sour grapes about it. Mclaren's system seems like the most straightforward solution for the time and I would assume that to some extent that's the basis for most the other teams in some form. I know at least Lotus had an air metering system that would be used to determine the speed of the car and then adjust the ride height, I get the feeling from what scrapes I can pick out online is that the Lotus system circa 1987 was probably the most ambitious and if Warr hadn't axed the system it might have been a championship contender. Williams seems to be extremely cagey about any info you can get about their cars, you can find a simplistic diagram of the hydraulics but that's pretty much it. The other area I'm interested in but can find close to zero info on is the development of fuel injection systems in F1. Your site was actually good since it confirmed that Bosch supplied a sytem to Porsche for the TAG engines. You can't find any real info about that online outside of some of the systems used for telemetry on the 90s engines. Tony quidprano fucked around with this message at 06:09 on Feb 9, 2016 |
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Feb 9, 2016 06:07
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http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/newey-warns-no-engine-tokens-could-lead-to-spending-frenzy-672290/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asE7AA5_JdM
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Feb 9, 2016 09:32
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1500quidporsche posted:That's more or less what he said, its been a year or two since I've read the article but McLaren's system had a series of beacons at every corner that would blast out the frequency and the car would see it was at whatever corner and adjust the suspension for that corner. He's maintained his car would always work up until qualifying where it would start mishandling. How much truth there is to that who knows, but he does seem to have way too much sour grapes about it. I'm pretty sure thats how the active suspension worked on those insane DTM cars in the early 90's, honestly some of the poo poo those things had was amazing for the time. I remember seeing the mercedes one in the goodwood paddock with all the vintage laptops they had to calibrate all the systems. http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=9364 Edit: also a cool article on the calibra http://www.speedhunters.com/2013/08/carbon-not-dated-the-secret-zakspeed-calibra/ track day bro! fucked around with this message at 10:51 on Feb 9, 2016 |
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Feb 9, 2016 10:37
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We had a visit from Patrick Head at uni once and he talked about how he wanted to build a pro-active car that knew where it was on track and so could set itself up for the next corner rather than simply reacting to sensor data. Unfortunately commercial GPS hadn't evolved to the point where that was feasible before active suspension got banned so it never got built.
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Feb 9, 2016 14:27
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http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/archive/article/march-2012/66/mansells-perfect-ride
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Feb 9, 2016 15:14
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jammyozzy posted:We had a visit from Patrick Head at uni once and he talked about how he wanted to build a pro-active car that knew where it was on track and so could set itself up for the next corner rather than simply reacting to sensor data. Unfortunately commercial GPS hadn't evolved to the point where that was feasible before active suspension got banned so it never got built. GP bikes do this with their electronics, it's pretty cool. But it also can go wrong. I remember a race where Nicky Hayden's Ducati got confused for some reason and thought he was on another section of the track. He said it was pretty scary having the bike cutting power on the straight and letting him give it the full beans mid-corner.
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Feb 9, 2016 15:19
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GPS would be the way to implement it now if it was unbanned. I think some team (Ferrari?) has a GPS based downshift system in 2011 or 2012 that got banned.
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Feb 9, 2016 16:08
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1500quidporsche posted:GPS would be the way to implement it now if it was unbanned. I think some team (Ferrari?) has a GPS based downshift system in 2011 or 2012 that got banned. Is GPS that accurate that it can pinpoint exactly when a downshift needs to take place? If so, that's impressive.
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Feb 9, 2016 17:55
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Brainwrong posted:Is GPS that accurate that it can pinpoint exactly when a downshift needs to take place? If so, that's impressive. RTK GPS systems can be centimeter accurate. I don't see the benefit of it, though, as downshifting should be related to available grip, which is not a constant.
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Feb 9, 2016 18:07
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Probably not consumer grade stuff, if you start digging for stuff used for naval or military applications you might find something. I'm not even sure if it was ever fully ran beyond testing, all I remember was that it was banned in the off season and it was rumored that Ferrari was the one who had a system developed around the concept. The exact extent and use of the system wasn't fully known since to my knowledge automatic shifting is/was prohibited by the rules, so maybe it just told the driver when to downshift?
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Feb 9, 2016 18:11
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Brainwrong posted:Is GPS that accurate that it can pinpoint exactly when a downshift needs to take place? If so, that's impressive. Basically you bring a big stationary GPS receiver and put it somewhere near the track, and calibrate its location. Then the car just checks the amount of error the stationary receiver is seeing and adjusts the signal received from the satellites based on that. Then you add an IMU to the car so it can find it's own position in between GPS pings, and filter everything through a kalman filter using the track map as a baseline. You can get mm precision doing this.
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Feb 9, 2016 20:16
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Found the place where Jacques Villenueve is going instead of Formula E: http://www.motorsport.com/nascar-xs/news/villeneuve-aims-to-take-no-27-to-daytona-672384/
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Feb 9, 2016 21:34
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Tyler posted:Found the place where Jacques Villenueve is going instead of Formula E: http://www.motorsport.com/nascar-xs/news/villeneuve-aims-to-take-no-27-to-daytona-672384/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RUmqwK3Xdk
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Feb 9, 2016 21:38
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Not entirely sure that would work. Shitload of variables, (not including orbital errors or poor satellite numbers/positioning) mean that even the best GPS receivers can only guarantee accuracy of three feet. It's not that important when at sea, or for hiking when it's not foggy, but it's really annoying when some fucker's hidden the geocashe in one of many identical looking nettle and bramble covered trees. Also I suspect an inaccuracy of 3 feet might be somewhat irritating when your car thinks the barrier is the road at eau rouge.
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Feb 9, 2016 21:45
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Make F1 Great Again
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Feb 9, 2016 21:54
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learnincurve posted:Not entirely sure that would work. Shitload of variables, (not including orbital errors or poor satellite numbers/positioning) mean that even the best GPS receivers can only guarantee accuracy of three feet. Great job ignoring the posts about how it wouldn't be consumer grade GPS like you are describing
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Feb 9, 2016 22:04
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El Hefe posted:Make F1 Great Again Bad picture, demand higher res!
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Feb 9, 2016 22:11
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1500quidporsche posted:Mclaren's system seems like the most straightforward solution for the time and I would assume that to some extent that's the basis for most the other teams in some form. I know at least Lotus had an air metering system that would be used to determine the speed of the car and then adjust the ride height, I get the feeling from what scrapes I can pick out online is that the Lotus system circa 1987 was probably the most ambitious and if Warr hadn't axed the system it might have been a championship contender. Williams seems to be extremely cagey about any info you can get about their cars, you can find a simplistic diagram of the hydraulics but that's pretty much it. On the 99T ; "Under the driver's seat, Lotus have mounted the systems computer. This receives a continuous flow of motion and driver control inputs, which are detected by a number of accelerometers, transducers and potentiometers sited around the car. Those which sense lateral accelerations (as in cornering) and longitudinal accelerations (as in acceleration and braking) are also housed beneath the seat. Steering input is monitored by a transducer on the system." from Autosport in 1987.
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Feb 9, 2016 22:29
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Skarsnik posted:Great job ignoring the posts about how it wouldn't be consumer grade GPS like you are describing He doesn't read posts.
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Feb 9, 2016 22:31
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Human Grand Prix posted:On the 99T ; "Under the driver's seat, Lotus have mounted the systems computer. This receives a continuous flow of motion and driver control inputs, which are detected by a number of accelerometers, transducers and potentiometers sited around the car. Those which sense lateral accelerations (as in cornering) and longitudinal accelerations (as in acceleration and braking) are also housed beneath the seat. Steering input is monitored by a transducer on the system." from Autosport in 1987. This makes way more sense. I suspect the air metering tubes at the front to control ride height were probably a crude way of validating that the aero was working correctly and stable.
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Feb 9, 2016 23:11
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:/ I missed a post k. It's a bit video game fantasy land if you are talking about using military grade equipment which is why I assumed you were not, as you would have to factor in getting it though customs in Europe, America, China, Russia and middle eastern shitholes and that's even if it's legal in some of these countries in the first place.
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Feb 9, 2016 23:25
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learnincurve posted::/ I missed a post k. It's a bit video game fantasy land if you are talking about using military grade equipment which is why I assumed you were not, as you would have to factor in getting it though customs in Europe, America, China, Russia and middle eastern shitholes and that's even if it's legal in some of these countries in the first place. lmao at the backpedaling, jesus christ
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Feb 9, 2016 23:31
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we already have mm accurate beeps for lift and coast
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Feb 9, 2016 23:43
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Human Grand Prix posted:On the 99T ; "Under the driver's seat, Lotus have mounted the systems computer. This receives a continuous flow of motion and driver control inputs, which are detected by a number of accelerometers, transducers and potentiometers sited around the car. Those which sense lateral accelerations (as in cornering) and longitudinal accelerations (as in acceleration and braking) are also housed beneath the seat. Steering input is monitored by a transducer on the system." from Autosport in 1987. It wasn't much fun getting any kind of custom electronics done back then and they would have had to, to get the refresh rate of the system high enough to work. It is spectacular but I wonder how they handled sensor drift or if it was just millisecond reactive. learnincurve posted::/ I missed a post k. It's a bit video game fantasy land if you are talking about using military grade equipment which is why I assumed you were not, as you would have to factor in getting it though customs in Europe, America, China, Russia and middle eastern shitholes and that's even if it's legal in some of these countries in the first place. Dude people use this kind of system all the time for collecting data on test tracks with passenger cars, its been not a big deal since the US stopped intentionally corrupting the GPS signal in 2000. Now with Europe, Russia, and China building big constellations of positioning satellites I'm not even sure if you'd need so much complexity on the car side in 5-10 years.
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Feb 9, 2016 23:47
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Mini's latest cars have a GPS assisted automatic transmission that analyzes where the car is based on GPS and map data and the driver's current inputs and downshifts to the proper gear for the corner and not upshifting if another corner is coming up. At f1 speeds it would need more precision than the consumer grade stuff because of the speeds involved but it's not like f1 isn't full of other cutting edge stuff. I wouldn't think "military grade" and f1 would be mutually exclusive.
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Feb 9, 2016 23:55
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The 99T's was reactive, from what it sounds like. And judging from what I've seen not terribly effective either, but the technology was still maturing. The 99T also wasn't as aero-efficent as the MP4/3 or FW11B. This being 1980s Lotus meant that they stopped it entirely and created chunks of poo poo for the rest of their time in GP racing.
Human Grand Prix fucked around with this message at 00:00 on Feb 10, 2016 |
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Feb 9, 2016 23:56
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learnincurve posted::/ I missed a post k. It's a bit video game fantasy land if you are talking about using military grade equipment which is why I assumed you were not, as you would have to factor in getting it though customs in Europe, America, China, Russia and middle eastern shitholes and that's even if it's legal in some of these countries in the first place. You could easily build your own super accurate GPS system without using "top secret military hardware." It's not difficult, GPS systems are just triangulation mathematics with some doppler effect corrections. The more satellites you can connect to, the more accurate your position is. All of the data on the current location and orbital information for GPS satellites is freely available, so if you wanted to you could plug that poo poo into your calculations and correct for orbital errors or whatever.
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Feb 9, 2016 23:57
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"military grade" also just means "of a quality suitable for military purposes," it doesn't actually mean it's literal export-controlled military equipment "oh my mistake" is not a difficult post to make
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Feb 9, 2016 23:58
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be nice wicka posted:"oh my mistake" is not a difficult post to make how would you know
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Feb 10, 2016 00:00
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