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As an aside, imagine what a neat game Paradox could make if they could incorporate the various internal politics mechanics that they've developed over the course of V2, CK2, EU4, and Stellaris. A nation could have pops that vote for or support various issues, and parties with platforms and agendas that could be negotiated with using a system of favors like that in CK2. Coalitions and factions could be developed, both internally among parties and externally among groups of nation-states, which would provide challenges and obstacles to the player. For example, I could see a "faction" system working wonderfully well in a game where you are represented at the party level -- if your party gets the help of other parties to form a coalition in Parliament, they would be able to use those favors to levy for their issues and agendas. Refusing to allow their representatives a voice in the new government, or appointing some of their ministers in the bureaucracy, would cause them to be angry with you and vote against you, or even trigger a vote to dissolve Parliament! A powerful enough Party with high enough consciousness/unrest might even trigger a revolution. I think it would provide a lot of granularity and nonlinearity in the game that would be very interesting to play.
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Feb 10, 2016 19:53
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That's definitely expansion material but a Victoria style POP system would be incredible. It's a ton of work though because you'd have to implement a system for each type of government but I guess we'll see how Endless Space 2 turns out because they have exactly that.
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Feb 10, 2016 20:03
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Mans posted:Russia didn't have infinite manpower, the Otoman empire wasn't a super tolerant heaven, Prussia didn't have armies composed of invincible robocops. Similarly, I think it would work for England to get some kind of "English Longbow" modifier granting them +infantry combat for the first 50 years or if they control more than X provinces not in the British Isles region, whichever happens first.
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Feb 10, 2016 20:05
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Well if we're honest, what we truly want is one single game that let's us play from pre-Roman Republic to modern times and beyond with the micro-functions of CK2 to the macro-functions of EU.
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Feb 10, 2016 20:07
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Woah endless space 2. Really a good time for 4X games, let's hope any are good. The endless guys make solid games with great lore and setting but the gameplay some how gets very boring fast 
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Feb 10, 2016 20:16
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Just give me a loving Mesopotamian dawn of civilisation game, you big bastards,
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Feb 10, 2016 20:22
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Oberleutnant posted:Just give me a loving dinosaur civilisation game, you big bastards,
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Feb 10, 2016 20:23
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Black Griffon posted:Well if we're honest, what we truly want is one single game that let's us play from pre-Roman Republic to modern times and beyond with the micro-functions of CK2 to the macro-functions of EU. The obsession some people have with extended Paradox games is very strange to me. You can become an unstoppable doomblob within 200 years of starting a Paradox game, and generally do, unless you're intentionally handicapping yourself in some way. It's not particularly fun to keep playing after that. If a full campaign of EU4 is too long - which it is - why on earth would I want to play something even longer? What *I* really want is expanded support for one or two later EU4 bookmarks - breathe some life into that 1579 or 1613 or 1701 start, give me some achievements and late-game events! It won't happen, but it'd be cool if it did - Victoria 2 shows that a 100-year long Paradox game can be a very fun, contained experience.
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Feb 10, 2016 20:46
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Release a dinosaur portraits pack for CK2* and I will pay all my monies. *or dinosaur portraits/units pack for EU4, or dinosaurs for V2, or, or
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Feb 10, 2016 20:48
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Sid Meyer tried that and it drove him to ruin.
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Feb 10, 2016 20:49
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Dibujante posted:In this case, longbows are actually out of character but they're still the only explanation for why England was able to hold onto its French holdings for so long. It isn't really though. There's a lot of conflict within the French monarchy at the time, plus the whole Armagnac-Burgundian Civil War which has just wrapped up as EU4 opens. English archery was important, but the war goes far deeper than Crecy and Agincourt.
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Feb 10, 2016 20:53
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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I just want Rome 2 and also a game that ranges from the around the Peloponnesian Wars (or a bit earlier) to early Rome I dont think that was ever a really good strategy game set on this timeframe
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Feb 10, 2016 21:01
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Elias_Maluco posted:I just want Rome 2 and also a game that ranges from the around the Peloponnesian Wars (or a bit earlier) to early Rome I wouldn't call it really good but Alea Jacta Est exists.
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Feb 10, 2016 21:03
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Wiz's Twitter posted:From my @StellarisGame changelog today: - AI will no longer try to ruin player's self-confidence by always insulting them on first contact. Good to see that work on Stellaris is going well.
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Feb 10, 2016 21:08
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I just want an Atlantis based game. Call it a spin off of Stellaris' uplifting feature.
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Feb 10, 2016 21:09
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PleasingFungus posted:The obsession some people have with extended Paradox games is very strange to me. You can become an unstoppable doomblob within 200 years of starting a Paradox game, and generally do, unless you're intentionally handicapping yourself in some way. It's not particularly fun to keep playing after that. If a full campaign of EU4 is too long - which it is - why on earth would I want to play something even longer? The next expansion for EU4 (after Mare Nostrum) should absolutely be about lategame content, both in terms of bookmarks and just things to do for those starting at 1444. I feel like the bookmarks haven't been looked at since EU3, that's how little they get talked about.
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Feb 10, 2016 21:23
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zedprime posted:I just want an Atlantis based game. Call it a spin off of Stellaris' uplifting feature. There's always Age of Mythology.
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Feb 10, 2016 21:56
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Soup du Jour posted:The next expansion for EU4 (after Mare Nostrum) should absolutely be about lategame content, both in terms of bookmarks and just things to do for those starting at 1444. I feel like the bookmarks haven't been looked at since EU3, that's how little they get talked about. Hobolicious posted:There's always Age of Mythology. 
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Feb 10, 2016 22:13
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A page or so late, but you guys arguing about the cultural change wiping out cultural buildings--there's a real cool mod on workshop called "Cultural Traditions" or something in the vein that lets previously built cultural buildings stay even after the ruler's culture changes. You can build both longbowmen and camel knights in England! Make armies as diverse as your wife's "lovers" tab!
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Feb 10, 2016 22:31
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Soup du Jour posted:The next expansion for EU4 (after Mare Nostrum) should absolutely be about lategame content, both in terms of bookmarks and just things to do for those starting at 1444. I feel like the bookmarks haven't been looked at since EU3, that's how little they get talked about. My impression is that Johan really dislikes the later bookmarks, possibly because of how much work they are to maintain versus how much they actually get used. I'd be fine with tossing the day-by-day start options (cool though though they are) for a few really nice hand-crafted bookmarks, but I don't get the impression that's something that's something the Paradox team has a lot of enthusiasm for...
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Feb 10, 2016 22:39
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Yeah they have lots of stats on what people actually do with their games. Everyone does custom nations at the earliest date.
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Feb 10, 2016 22:41
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Dibujante posted:I think we're arguing the same thing. All of those are caricatures, as is "England rules the waves". Which is ok. The problem is when part of the time period hinges on a nation defying its caricature. In this case, longbows are actually out of character but they're still the only explanation for why England was able to hold onto its French holdings for so long. The way Paradox has traditionally fudged this is by tweaking the game start, e.g. by giving France's provinces really high autonomy, having Albania start with Skanderberg as a 5/5/5 general, or giving Scotland +1 leader shock as long as they are 7 provinces or fewer. To be fair there were parts during the hundred years war where the french monarchy as barely able to enact orders beyond what he wanted for dinner. The English could've had poop on sticks if all the French were more focused on taking advantage of weak monarchs to cement their local strangleholds. Which to be fair is something that pops up frequently in French history before and after the HYW too 
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Feb 10, 2016 22:43
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Soup du Jour posted:The next expansion for EU4 (after Mare Nostrum) should absolutely be about lategame content, both in terms of bookmarks and just things to do for those starting at 1444. I feel like the bookmarks haven't been looked at since EU3, that's how little they get talked about. 1. Makes European powers actually care about having a proper foothold in India from 1600 (or 1500 for Portugal) and forward. 2. Has a well-developed system for European and Indian states interacting and using each other. 3. Lets European states compete for influence in India, through direct control of land, or through protectorates and vassals, and of course makes the AI care about this.* 4. Would be nice to see the Mughals happen, but even if they don't, having great big native empires which can keep the Europeans at bay would be nice too. Actually, thinking about what this means in terms of gameplay vs. what's being portrayed, you could probably work the whole "Europe vs. India" angle. As a player in India you naturally want to expand and strengthen your own position so that you have the strength to beat back the Europeans when they come, which essentially puts you in the shoes of the great native empire. Going with that philosophy in terms of designing the system in India, I'm thinking something like this: Every country with provinces in India is part of some unique Indian system, sort of a mix between the HRE and the daimyo system in Japan. Base the system around the concept of momentum, with every country being rated by how quickly it expands its influence in India, relative to its size. Greater momentum means bigger bonuses (reducing overextension and coring costs in particular), allowing a country to expand rapidly if it seizes its chance. The momentum has to wind down eventually though, by virtue of there not being infinite room for growth, and any gains being relatively small compared to where the country started. Now low momentum is fine if you're a small state, but as a great empire, it should be an existential threat, if you don't find a way to truly solidify your gains. That brings us to the second part; Europeans: When Europeans first arrive in India, it's likely to be too rich and technologically advanced to easily subdue, so they'll settle for gaining a port here and there. As Europe increasingly gains a lead in tech, its ability to push Indian states around increases, helping them gain more gold, creating a positive feedback loop. It also gives Europe momentum in India, while perhaps the local empire is slowing down its conquests. This sea change in the local balance of power could act as a signal to minor states and subjects in India that perhaps this great empire's days are numbered, and now is the chance to align themselves with the new cool guys or strike out on their own, which would give Europe the chance to make the gains they've previously been denied. Of course, like the HRE, there should be the possibility of ending the system and creating a new stable state. Keeping other states operating in India from gaining too much momentum relative to your own, after you've solidified your hold on a significant chunk of it, should slowly build up authority over the region. When your authority becomes great enough, you'd have the ability to basically end the system and proclaim yourself a proper Indian empire, your legitimacy born out of beating back foreign invaders and subduing rebellious princes. At that point you'd be free to mop up the rest of India at your leisure. *Maybe Indian states could choose to be influenced in this way, as a way to get into a better tech group? I think it would be a great alternative to the current westernization system, but then I'm not a big fan of that either.
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Feb 10, 2016 22:43
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PleasingFungus posted:The obsession some people have with extended Paradox games is very strange to me. You can become an unstoppable doomblob within 200 years of starting a Paradox game, and generally do, unless you're intentionally handicapping yourself in some way. It's not particularly fun to keep playing after that. If a full campaign of EU4 is too long - which it is - why on earth would I want to play something even longer? As someone who wants to have that obsession but realizes its kind of stupid early on and quits. Part of it stems from the idea of remaking the world in a new image, especially if you are handicapping yourself and/or building up other powers. Look at the good and cool LPs of paradox games, many of them revolve around the world created, and this created world is what interests me as a player. It's why I have less of an interest in later bookmarks, less of the world is there to Now, onto the important poo poo: Hitlers Gay Secret posted:
That's Stellaris. Dinos vs. Fungi vs. Boring Humans Intergalactic Triple Threat for all of creation. And then the winner dies from internal tensions.
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Feb 10, 2016 23:08
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PittTheElder posted:It isn't really though. There's a lot of conflict within the French monarchy at the time, plus the whole Armagnac-Burgundian Civil War which has just wrapped up as EU4 opens. English archery was important, but the war goes far deeper than Crecy and Agincourt. Mans posted:To be fair there were parts during the hundred years war where the french monarchy as barely able to enact orders beyond what he wanted for dinner. Even though the weakness of the French monarchy was significant, the HYW lasted too long for it to be the primary explanatory factor. Clearly, there is no single explanation, and the number of battles fought defies an easy summary. The reason why I think that the longbow prolonged the conflict is that, despite the weakness of the French crown, French armies were still almost always larger and better equipped than English armies. French armies relied heavily on armored cavalry and mercenary companies, which were considered by contemporaries to be Right Way to Wage War. The use of the longbow by the English probably would not have happened if the English had also been able to afford the kind of "correct" armies that the French were fielding. For this reason, I think that, without the longbow, the English would not have succeeded at contesting the claims of even a weak French king.
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Feb 10, 2016 23:09
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Oberleutnant posted:Just give me a loving Mesopotamian dawn of civilisation game, you big bastards, 
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Feb 10, 2016 23:11
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Barring some seriously shocking archeology I'm unaware of, I think you quoted the wrong post.
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Feb 10, 2016 23:25
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Every country with provinces in India is part of some unique Indian system, sort of a mix between the HRE and the daimyo system in Japan. I think adding "center of gravity" polities like the HRE to a whole bunch of places would be a really good change. One of the main things that makes Europe so much more interesting to play in than the rest of the world (in my opinion, anyway) is having to work within/ against the constraints of the HRE as you expand around it. And it's the spawn of so many alliances and wars, as well as big events like the 30 years war and the shadow kingdom that you can plan a lot around. Unique states (that are unique for people interacting with them, not just themselves) are very fun to play nearby to. India would be good (to stop the hugboxing there too) but Ming especially. An HRE-like system for a shattered China that let it reunify/ get Manchu'd would be great.
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Feb 10, 2016 23:40
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Oberleutnant posted:lol defensive much :iamafag:
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Feb 10, 2016 23:43
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Mans posted:To be fair there were parts during the hundred years war where the french monarchy as barely able to enact orders beyond what he wanted for dinner. What is, poop on sticks? Because that was a real thing used on the medieval ages to kill enemy soldiers by septic shock.
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Feb 10, 2016 23:50
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Koramei posted:I think adding "center of gravity" polities like the HRE to a whole bunch of places would be a really good change. One of the main things that makes Europe so much more interesting to play in than the rest of the world (in my opinion, anyway) is having to work within/ against the constraints of the HRE as you expand around it. And it's the spawn of so many alliances and wars, as well as big events like the 30 years war and the shadow kingdom that you can plan a lot around. Unique states (that are unique for people interacting with them, not just themselves) are very fun to play nearby to. Re-orienting all of SE Asia towards either being in China's sphere of influence our out of it (and thus possibly subject to Europe) would be pretty great. Proxy wars between Europe and China would be pretty great. Both the Ming and the Qing fought several proxy conflicts against Europeans during this time period, the Ming fighting to support clients in SE Asia. The Qing fought fewer engagements and were overall less competent at maintaining control of SE Asia. There isn't much of a system in place presently to force you to contend with Ming/Qing if you intend to topple some Indonesian sultanate. Sure, there are guarantees, but the Ming/Qing AI neither uses them nor benefits from using them (after all, these states all suck trade out of China).
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Feb 10, 2016 23:53
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PleasingFungus posted:My impression is that Johan really dislikes the later bookmarks, possibly because of how much work they are to maintain versus how much they actually get used. I'd be fine with tossing the day-by-day start options (cool though though they are) for a few really nice hand-crafted bookmarks, but I don't get the impression that's something that's something the Paradox team has a lot of enthusiasm for... I feel like the bookmarks are a chicken and egg situation, where there's no work done on them because they aren't played very much, because they aren't worked on and so on. I think even some achievements centered around later start dates could get people interested in trying them out more.
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Feb 11, 2016 00:34
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Todays World War Wednesday http://www.twitch.tv/paradoxinteractive/v/43143283
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Feb 11, 2016 01:32
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I gotta say, as much as I like learning about the game the WWW streams are not as interesting now that most of Europe has been taken over due to some AI glitches. Not a whole lot going on...
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Feb 11, 2016 03:35
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Psychotic Weasel posted:I gotta say, as much as I like learning about the game the WWW streams are not as interesting now that most of Europe has been taken over due to some AI glitches. Not a whole lot going on... How long ago did you get that text av Did you get your account when you were 7
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Feb 11, 2016 03:47
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I've been 19 for 12 years now. It's wonderful.
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Feb 11, 2016 03:57
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zedprime posted:No, the real Atlantis But you can already play as Bolivia in V2 
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Feb 11, 2016 04:59
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podcat on pdxs forums posted:Q: Is Franco-British union going to have it's own flag in the final version of the game, or it's going to stay as UK? That's too bad for Kaisserreich. I really love all the flag changes
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Feb 11, 2016 06:45
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Puella Magissima posted:That's too bad for Kaisserreich. I really love all the flag changes There's flags for govtype changes, just not for things like the Anglo-French Union (which from WWW just looks like the UK inheriting whatever's left of France and its empire?)
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Feb 11, 2016 07:51
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Empress Theonora posted:There's flags for govtype changes, just not for things like the Anglo-French Union (which from WWW just looks like the UK inheriting whatever's left of France and its empire?) Still seems lame that there's no way to change flags except with ideology.
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Feb 11, 2016 07:55
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