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We are NOT a god. We can be worshiped as a god, but we should not be. We are a vastly potent divine(?) being, but Enkidel is not worthy of worship. None of the self-proclaimed gods in this world have been. If we must set out on our own, let's be Zepa, make a new city in the wilds and be its protector, but not its god-king.
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Feb 12, 2016 09:01
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UppaTree posted:We are NOT a god. We can be worshiped as a god, but we should not be. We are a vastly potent divine(?) being, but Enkidel is not worthy of worship. None of the self-proclaimed gods in this world have been. How pointless. What have the descendants of Zepa really accomplished? For all their power and boldness, they managed to make a few backwater towns that can't defend themselves when push comes to shove. As they are, they won't survive the Storm. Enkidel has a chance to be something great, to make the world better, and defend it from the Storm. Zepa can't be our model.
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Feb 12, 2016 09:14
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Lord Cyrahzax posted:How pointless. What have the descendants of Zepa really accomplished? For all their power and boldness, they managed to make a few backwater towns that can't defend themselves when push comes to shove. As they are, they won't survive the Storm. Enkidel has a chance to be something great, to make the world better, and defend it from the Storm. Zepa can't be our model. I disagree, I believe Zepa is a great model, at least as a foundation. Consider: We, for whatever reasons or motivations, want to save the world and drag it kicking and screaming into the 21st Century, so of course we are aiming high. Conversely, I'm pretty sure Zepa just wanted to be left the hell alone and not have the PtB up his rear end all the time. It stands to reason that he did exactly what he wanted, which was be enough of a badass to cut out a chunk of his own territory and lay down the rules. That's a perfect foundation for us to start with. Get strong enough to declare our own territory, build it up, and expand from there.
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Feb 12, 2016 09:24
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Lord Cyrahzax posted:How pointless. What have the descendants of Zepa really accomplished? For all their power and boldness, they managed to make a few backwater towns that can't defend themselves when push comes to shove. As they are, they won't survive the Storm. Enkidel has a chance to be something great, to make the world better, and defend it from the Storm. Zepa can't be our model. We know jack and poo poo about what zepa has done, other than the fact that the Melachim are terrified of him. I'd say that's worth points.
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Feb 12, 2016 09:25
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Outrail posted:This, and respond to any queries on the nature of man, God or the world with a bleary eyed look of resignation "I don't know, I don't care, it doesn't matter. Ask Ishmael of Zepath." Haha. I say we make a mountain. Put our city on top of it, then build into it as we expand. A grand society living inside the mountain. We can invite the bugs. Queen in the roots of the mountain, us at the top. Call it Mt.HarHar.
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Feb 12, 2016 11:30
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How were there B voters? Why are there B voters? Can we dissect these people's brains for an explanation? I keep being baffled by the rationales of people at votes. How could you resist the lure of divine power and knowledge? Not to accuse of wrongvoting but just to really understand why you want to assume, what I can only see as a position of subservience, ignorance, slavery.
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Feb 12, 2016 11:44
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Ubern00b posted:How were there B voters? Why are there B voters? Can we dissect these people's brains for an explanation? I keep being baffled by the rationales of people at votes. I guess the concept of trust and loyalty are lost? I trust Ish. I don't want to be banished from Kavodel. Or betray our promise to Tudya, or never see Naomi again, or miss out on the waterwheel, or any of the innumerable good things we turned our back on. We were going to discover iron! We were going to teach Kavodel writing on paper! We were going to finally get some answers! I sincerely believe we picked a fate worse than death. There will be hell to pay. Listening to those with more knowledge and more world experience and who know what the gently caress is going on isn't slavery, its common sense. We would have gotten answers, had we waited and shown we could behave like a Man of Zepath. TheCog fucked around with this message at 11:54 on Feb 12, 2016 |
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Feb 12, 2016 11:48
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I think the door is what allows us to have a carefully-rationed Well of divine(?) power. It keeps our [???] and our (soul? Nephesh? Being?) distinct from eachother. This is how we can choose to die by deliberately not spending [???] Once we break that seal, we won't be able to die any longer, at least not in the way men do.
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Feb 12, 2016 12:14
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Like I said, I honestly believe that opening the door will turn us into a monster. Maybe not THE Hungerbeast like we were, but something we won't be able to control all the same. Actually  Completely Baseless Theory TimeThat door was probably retconned into us when Diog had to rewrite reality to undo us going Full Hunger. Something remembers the alt-timeline in game, and installed that door. If we open it, we either partially undo the retcon, or unleash Hungrykidel back into the world. But, even if that isn't the case, I do strongly suspect that opening the door is a Bad Thing, and not the answer to all of our hopes and dreams like other folks are theorizing. Like I said, as much as I can sympathize with some of their positions, I still resent the hell out of the Ishamals and Jaels of the world, if only for the undeniable fact that we deserve to know what we are, and shouldn't have the truth of our own body dangled in front of us like a treat to earn if we're a good boy. He obviously feels strongly about us not opening it. So much so that he used the ultimate weapon against us: Snarls. The one person over all others that we will likely listen to, even as all hell breaks loose around us. I can't imagine Ishamal would go so far as to use that sort of Trump Card just to keep us ignorant. I just can't see it.
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Feb 12, 2016 12:31
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It wouldn't surprise me if opening this door will turn Enkidel into a hunger demon. It'd be just like Ishmael to go to the trouble of setting a guard but then deliberately not hang a sign saying "Opening this door will turn you into a hunger demon!"
Mexican Deathgasm fucked around with this message at 16:45 on Feb 12, 2016 |
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Feb 12, 2016 12:51
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the_steve posted:Like I said, I honestly believe that opening the door will turn us into a monster. Maybe not THE Hungerbeast like we were, but something we won't be able to control all the same. I mean, it's a giant gate of bones and blood and spiky bits. When has opening a gate like that ever done anyone any good at all?
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Feb 12, 2016 12:52
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There Bias Two posted:I mean, it's a giant gate of bones and blood and spiky bits. When has opening a gate like that ever done anyone any good at all? In our future
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Feb 12, 2016 12:52
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Lord Cyrahzax posted:Enkidel has a chance to be something great. Hahahahaha not with us at the helm he doesn't...
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Feb 12, 2016 12:54
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the_steve posted:opening the door is not the answer to all of our hopes and dreams like other folks are theorizing. Can the door be the way to all my hopes and dreams if my hopes are dead and my dreams are all nightmares? 
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Feb 12, 2016 12:56
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God damnit I had the busiest day and just caught up B argh But it's too late I'm sorry, Mom
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Feb 12, 2016 14:40
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Ubern00b posted:How were there B voters? Why are there B voters? Can we dissect these people's brains for an explanation? I keep being baffled by the rationales of people at votes. I trust Ish far more than anyone else, I'm part of Enkidel that really believes he has our best intentions at heart, but for whatever reasons sometimes can't or shouldn't tell us too much. Consider what Enkidel is, and does. He constantly tries to bend the rules and then claim ignorance when we get slapped on the wrists. He is both immensly charitable and greedy, he constantly changes the way he acts. And yet Ish trusts us, even when he knows we're lying to him, when he knows that we constantly nurture thoughts about heresy, in a society that lives and dies with its religion. Heck, El could come down and explain to us that he is very loving real and explain to us exactly how our [???] works and we'd still bicker and theorize what El, and how [???] REALLY works. I would love to vote A to see how it plays out, I don't want us to act in a way that I don't feel correspond with how I think Enkidel as a character would act though. This is why I really don't vote a lot, I find more pleasure in just reading a really well-written story (that sometimes goes hilariously wrong) than participating and making out wild&crazy theories. With that said, I appreciate both the effort from Diog and all the posters here who just like the Melachims bicker&fight amongst themselves.
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Feb 12, 2016 15:05
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Hmm, 700 posts, guess I should check in and s-Asherah posted:I̤̼̜̘͚͛̄͒̈́̇͋̑̚n͇̬͉̪̜̐́̃͛͗̓̈ͪ͆ ̯̰̌̑̈̄͋͋ͮ̆̀t̺͑ͭͫ̇ͅh͚̲̭̯ͧ̔e̜͇̙͖̱̘̺̿ͨ̌̆̉̚ ͔̺̈́ͪ̒̒d̯̙̟̻̺̪̹̃̐̑̾e̮̝̲̒̓̑̈ṣ̭ͨe̪̺̖̫̦̱̣͐ͤ͑̋r̦̖͖͍̃̂t͉͎̝̫͈̯̠̖̲͋͛ͣ͆ͩͤ͆ 
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Feb 12, 2016 15:08
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Greggster posted:Heck, El could come down and explain to us that he is very loving real and explain to us exactly how our [???] works and we'd still bicker and theorize what El, and how [???] REALLY works. I dunno, Denziroh didn't have wild-rear end theories coming out've every orifice, mostly because he was allowed to experiment and had people who'd actually tell him poo poo. Pretty much ALL the knowledge Enkidel has, he has because he's broken the rules, or someone else broke them on his behalf.
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Feb 12, 2016 15:54
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I truly believe we won't have reached this point if someone would tell us about the door or the mechanism of pumping well into other people.
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Feb 12, 2016 15:57
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Is IRC down? I can't connect.
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Feb 12, 2016 16:07
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IRC says you're in the room.
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Feb 12, 2016 16:11
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Nyaa posted:I truly believe we won't have reached this point if someone would tell us about the door or the mechanism of pumping well into other people. Agreed, if at any point Ish had said "there's a danger door in your head, open it and you will burn up/demonize/guarantee your fate as a hungering monster", then I really doubt there would have been sufficient A support. That he never did makes me wonder. Keep in mind that Ish is both dedicated to protecting us and protecting Ur from us. This door may honestly entail a high probability of a fate worse than death, but whether it's a given, whether that's the main motivation, or whether it's more about minimizing risk to Ur from us loving up I'm not sure.
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Feb 12, 2016 16:16
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Ishamal is behind the door. "I'm disappointed in you Enkidel. I'm sorry to have to do this, but it's for your own good" 
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Feb 12, 2016 16:20
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Waci posted:IRC says you're in the room.
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Feb 12, 2016 16:22
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We may be near a fail state for the adventures of Enkidel. Honestly, this should not be a shock, what with the giant demon about to do horrible things to you and those you love? Even if you did not vote for A in the last vote, you were already perilously, perilously close to ending your adventures. That is not to say you are doomed by the outcome of this vote. It is just to say a fail state is still very, very close. Whether or not it is the SAME one? No comment. It may even be the outcome of this vote, also no comment on that. Why am I telling you this? Other than to heighten tension prior to tonight's update of course? And fear not, that is surely part of it! You can stop being Enkidel if you like and play as Asahel. Asahel is probably not a half-Melachim, yet he still appears to be a well Blooded man, he is the second best archer in Kavodel and just like his father is(until recently anyway), probably a borderline atheist! Or greatly heretical anyway. He probably does not have to worry about his Well, not being half-Melachim he probably does not have one? He enjoys many of the benefits of being well Blooded and will surely grow into the power of Zepathan Mighty Man in time, or Tudiya? Greater? He currently fights in the first row, inferior in strength only to your Mighty Men. He has many of Enkidel's skills and much of his knowledge. Most of Enkidel's mortal contacts Asahel has similar relationships with. If Enkidel dies or dissapears or is eaten, Asahel stands to inherit his property. He is probably not going to be Zepath's next king if Enkidel vanishes, that will probably probably go to David or Aaron. Asahel could probably claim the position of magistrate of Kavodel or could pass it off to David or another. He even has a good relationship with Indor and Puabi. He probably does not have to worry about special restrictions or negative attention from divine beings? It is a chance to explore Kavodel and more Ur based adventures? To try to build a new society or change the one you live on? His problems are probably much more... terrestrial, like keeping his home safe and dealing with a changing Zepath which has been cut off from Ur. If Enkidel orders Asahel to mount the fastest beetle and flee, not to save his life, but his beloved sister Ruth and brother Snarls(and pass on valuable military intelligence to Tudiya), he would do it. If he can escape the immediate danger, the trio stands a pretty good chance of getting back to Ur alive. A small group is less likely to attract the attention of greater beings (as you were told... SO... so many times...) and Snarls nose can warn them of many lesser ones. Enkidel may not be doomed but if he is not he is very, very close. Of course if you pick Asahel you may never find out what happens to Enkidel, unless you see him die or get eaten or turn into a demon or ascend in a pillar of light and then yeah, he would probably know then? Diogenes reserves to right to veto this vote after consulting further with the Capybaras later today. It looks viable but they need to double check. If Enkidel reaches a fail state we will not be revisiting Ur on another character. That is it. One bite at the apple. 1. I decide to.... A. I stick with Enkidel. Let's see it through. B. I pick Asahel. We will fill in some of the details of his life montage style and be done by Sunday evening, a few votes this evening and over the weekend. You will get a chance to modify his skills and areas of knowledge. C. I pick one of my grandchildren. They are more of a blank slate. We will also have a montage and be done by Sunday night. If you pick Asahel and he is killed by the demon you can still pick a grandchild. D. Someone else who is not a prominent individual on our adventures. Any Ball of Labaras who is with you now and anyone else related to Enkidel is out, as well as anyone of obvious great age or power. Who? Diog will let you know if they are not allowed. Diogines fucked around with this message at 18:39 on Feb 12, 2016 |
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Feb 12, 2016 16:46
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A How long have we been with Enkidel now? Long enough to see him through to the end, whatever it may be.
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Feb 12, 2016 16:50
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Mexican Deathgasm posted:It wouldn't surprise me if opening this door will turn Enkidel into a hunger demon. It'd be just like Ishmael to go to the trouble of setting a guard but then deliberately not hang a sign saying "Opening this door will turn you into a hunger demon!" That could be, though it could also be the key to wielding hunger mode consciously, at will. We won't know unless we open it. Or perhaps it is the knowledge that Snarls isn't really a dog, but a melachim in disguise and the real Snarls died long ago. Also 1.A Goddamn the torpedoes, full speed ahead.
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Feb 12, 2016 16:52
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A might as well ride this crazy train till the end.
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Feb 12, 2016 16:54
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A.
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Feb 12, 2016 16:54
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A This is Enkidel's tale and I want to see it through to the end. And honestly, we've been playing this game so long that I feel a lot of voter sentiment is...tainted with spite and grudges. I'd rather not see Asahel taken down a bad route.
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Feb 12, 2016 16:54
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A
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Feb 12, 2016 16:54
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A Anything else just feels like a sad attempt at clinging on desperately
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Feb 12, 2016 16:56
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A I just don't think I could do another character evenly vaguely related to Ur after this. Too much emotional baggage.
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Feb 12, 2016 16:59
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Can we pick the mad Potter
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Feb 12, 2016 16:59
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A, not seeing this through would be a case of multi-year blue balls.
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Feb 12, 2016 17:00
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Not to throw a wrench into this backup plan, but as I understand it, aren't the riding bugs being controlled by the special mind bug in the bigger cart? Would Asahel even be able to control a single bug long enough to get home or would it lose direction eventually when the special bug gets eaten? Could he take both if that is the case? Edit: Also I vote A anyway, gonna see this through.
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Feb 12, 2016 17:00
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A. I want to see what the El is on that mountain dammit.
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Feb 12, 2016 17:01
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I'd vote D cause I have a previously offered option in mind but tbh at this point there is too much voter baggage for such a complete character switch to work. Asahel could maybe work but I don't want to ruin him either. Also, more like 1.5 bites at the apple.
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Feb 12, 2016 17:01
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Theglavwen posted:Agreed, if at any point Ish had said "there's a danger door in your head, open it and you will burn up/demonize/guarantee your fate as a hungering monster", then I really doubt there would have been sufficient A support. That's my issue with Ish. I understand not wanting to lay the heavy on a kid, but at some point when we were training (especially after the Jael incident ffs) it wouldn't have been so bad to fill us in on what's going on and why. 'You have the potential to become a god to people. This is a terrible path that brought absolute ruin to the world long ago. If you go down that road and fail, you will become a demon of such ravenous hunger that everyone you know and everyone you love will die a horrifying death. You will persist in this state for eternity without end. For this reason, I and the others have made some alterations to your abilities to maybe help prevent this. One of them was preventing you from siring children. The other is locking your potential divinity behind a wall so that only some seeps through, but your full potential is put away unless you choose to open it. This is the essence of free will. It is ultimately your choice to undo our precautions. However, be warned that if you do decide to open the door to that potential that you will make an enemy of all in Ur and the lands of Zepath including me, your Father, and the Melachim that watch over us all.' How hard would that have been? I know it's a story and the mystery is what makes it engaging. It's still frustrating though.
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Feb 12, 2016 17:02
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A Bring it on. If we die, this is a good death, and if we go full HUNGER, we need to be here to steer the demon toward HUNGER-ing things that need killin'.
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Feb 12, 2016 17:02
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