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I think these are the underlying code we have either discovered or were put into the door when it was made. I wonder if we went back and looked if we could find the moment when the door was created. Snarls claims he was there, but some of these seem to me like they might be prior to that time. Stop hiding - להפסיק להסתתר Assumes a base state of hiding our true nature. Built into the door. Possibly related to laurels. Grow wheat - לגדל חיטה Kavodel all the time. Flee quickly -לברוח מהר Dunno. Might be new. Maybe opened when running from Eyescream or something. Might be related to teleport or even wings. Absorb disciples - ספוג תלמידיו Hmmm. Possibly a set of these are from Amok's "Blood in yer eye!" Might also be Ball Trance related. Could also be when we borrow the senses or dream vision of others. Attack them - לתקוף אותם Also maybe Ball Trance. Create fish - ליצור דגים If we live we should really check the rivers around Kavodel for evidence of an unusual amount of fish. Let there be rain - יהי גשם Possibly also related to the unusual abundance in Kavodel. Speak to your father - לדבר עם אבא שלך Might imply that this has been going on and we don't recognize it as such when it is happening. Hide your wings - להסתיר את הכנפיים Blood in your eye from Amok? Seize power - לתפוס את השלטון Amok? Delayed programming to serve something else's agenda al la Manchurian Candidate. Possibly related to things like when we got powered up prior to Tanaach. A necessary alteration to the structure to allow that to happen or something. End effects - השפעות קצה The option that comes up to stop using [???] Continue hiding - להמשיך ולהסתיר Switched on to hide our true form, but also might be what was used on Paebel in the giant ambush? Laurel unlock? Possibly an example of something bolt in before the door as far back as Athar, where we were hidden. Intensify effects - להגביר את המאמצים [???] Drain from Balls like Uriah. Arrow time? Might be how the Bnaimokt were defeated when we were in Tanaach. Kill disciples - הרוג תלמידיו What we are constantly trying to do despite our best efforts. Turn around - לְהִסְתוֹבֵב What? A dance move? Might be physical. Might be energetic or something. Enter stasis - לישון לנצח Clear, but whether built in, gained or Amok is less clear. (Yellow text)Help your priest(?)- לעזור כהן שלך Clearish. Let there be light - ויהי אור Clear and known. (Blue text)Construction of the barrier and restore the senses - בניית המכשול ולשחזר את החושים Also clear and might imply use after several times we have been insensate. Let there be darkness - יהי חושך We saw this in dreams during Danal's manhood trial. Save power - לחסוך כוח Manage [???] drain. From Ish practice and such. Let there be death - למוות Think we have seen mighty men use this. Become blue - להיות כחול Erm... Maybe soul stuff. Maybe we are naturally blue. Maintain your size - לשמור על הגודל שלך Passive governor. What's missing? I don't see anything that might be our TK power. Turn around? Turn what around? Us? Some object? Arrow time is not entirely clear. The several radical moments of regeneration and self healing aren't clear. It could be that there are a bunch of things on this side of the door that don't require a command in order to channel energy/reality. It could also be that there are other commands/capacities in the text and we just haven't found them. I wonder if any of these are created by objects, such as the Sandals. Sogol fucked around with this message at 20:17 on Feb 13, 2016 |
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Feb 13, 2016 20:14
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Sogol posted:Kill disciples - הרוג תלמידיו 
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Feb 13, 2016 20:20
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I guess those are some of the multiple effects we were maintaining.
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Feb 13, 2016 20:39
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Seems like the door was probably more of a filter/server. Requests get sent in, say, for good harvests, and the processes behind the door say "Ok, here's a bumper crop, without overdoing it and flooding the entire world with grain."
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Feb 13, 2016 21:16
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End effects and Intensify effects both most likely refer to that "You are maintaining several effects" message we became aware of recently.
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Feb 13, 2016 21:37
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Help your priest! That's what we came here to do, damnit. THEN fer gently caress's sake fix the barrier.
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Feb 13, 2016 21:39
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Let's talk to Dad.
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Feb 13, 2016 22:00
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Ultimate Mango posted:I have been gone a few days and a, kind of confused. It seems like the fail state may have been reached but there was a clue in the text that gave us some options?
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Feb 13, 2016 22:19
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I vote for these things, in as quick a sequence as we can manage: Help your priest then become blue then create fish then construct the barrier and restore your sense And finally turn around. (honestly not certain on the order of those last two.)
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Feb 13, 2016 23:01
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Ultimate Mango posted:
Diogines posted:I wish I was that clever, alas, its probably a coincidence. Praise Diogines, The Capybara King. We must dance the Dance of Supplication!
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Feb 13, 2016 23:03
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(Blue text)Construction of the barrier and restore the senses - בניית המכשול ולשחזר את החושים
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Feb 13, 2016 23:13
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Hold the gate?
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Feb 13, 2016 23:15
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Volmarias posted:Hold the
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Feb 13, 2016 23:22
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Interesting you guys are not writing in as much. Or picking more options at once.
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Feb 14, 2016 00:27
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will blow your mind.
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help your priest
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Feb 14, 2016 00:36
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Something is going to be posted in about Diogines fucked around with this message at 00:54 on Feb 14, 2016 |
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Feb 14, 2016 00:49
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Feb 14, 2016 00:52
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So much for my paper!
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Feb 14, 2016 01:07
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Diogines posted:Snarls was the one trying to hold it... he wasn't alone 
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Feb 14, 2016 01:12
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At the very end we even betrayed our dog. Truly we are irredeemable.
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Feb 14, 2016 01:17
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dyzzy posted:At the very end we even betrayed our dog. Truly we are irredeemable. No we didn't. Ishamal manipulated our dog against us. If we reconstruct the barrier then the limits imposed on us will be by ourselves and we will have the power to answer many of the questions that Ish didn't want to answer. The reason he gets so much hate is because he could have told us shitloads of stuff about ourselves that would have pretty much only made us more understanding of his disposition. Withholding information can, and has in the past, cause bad stuff. If he would have told us about this door and what was behind it would we really have opened it? "A barrier has been placed etc etc. If you open it before you are ready you will go insane. It will be too much to handle. You will know when you are ready to open it."
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Feb 14, 2016 01:26
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Diogines posted:Snarls was the one trying to hold it... Closed. Gates of Divinity are supposed to be held open. dyzzy posted:At the very end we even betrayed our dog. Truly we are irredeemable. No. Snarls was made a tool—that is indeed betrayal, but not by us.
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Feb 14, 2016 01:26
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Basscop posted:No we didn't. Ishamal manipulated our dog against us. If we reconstruct the barrier then the limits imposed on us will be by ourselves and we will have the power to answer many of the questions that Ish didn't want to answer. We would have happily opened it because "What does ish know!". It doesn't matter how much ish tells us, it'll never be enough for us. We've shown over and over we can't follow simple instructions.
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Feb 14, 2016 01:29
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Vavrek posted:Closed. Gates of Divinity are supposed to be held open. Poor Snarls. None of this is his fault but he surely feels like he failed us.
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Feb 14, 2016 01:34
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TheCog posted:We would have happily opened it because "What does ish know!". It doesn't matter how much ish tells us, it'll never be enough for us. Of course we would say that because he never gives us half a leg to stand on when faced with a dilemma. We just can't do this and that and the other because *reasons* and then when we are in a situation like the one we are in now the option to do one of the things he told us not to becomes painfully easy to choose. Because it is a good option that almost always delivers a result of some kind. For instance: Ball-trance. Now if we do decide to follow Ishamals instruction in face of death then what happens? Have we ever done this without someone being loving dead? Everyone here is going to die if we don't do something. Experimenting was a clear option to do something with some result. Now i just want to clarify. I didn't even vote to experiment. But i can see the appeal. We go with the supernatural because we probably need something like that to save as many as possible. Ishamal just tells us to go fencing blindfolded with our left hand because *reasons* and never says that if we go fencing without that certain handicap we are going to explode our opponent, decapitate the referee and go to prison. This has been stated before, this has been lots of people's reasoning for disliking Ishamal. Some agree, others disagree. But what i find most annoying about this debate is that we still keep thinking that "Enkidel is an Idiot" despite having done some amazing and impressive things.
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Feb 14, 2016 01:40
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Vavrek posted:Gates of Divinity are supposed to be held open. Why? Enkidel is probably the last person I'd trust with godhood.
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Feb 14, 2016 01:42
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Basscop posted:Of course we would say that because he never gives us half a leg to stand on when faced with a dilemma. Maybe that's the point, human life is fleeting, we're an immortal god child. Yes, people will die, under our watch. Do we have enough self control to not use our godlike powers to save them? Ish has godlike powers, or at least super mighty man powers, why doesn't he go and save everyone every battle? The trio are literal gods, they can probably do a lot more to save lives, but they don't, because of free will. Yes, we need to prove that we're willing to die, and let people die, before we can be trusted with powers that we can't use to bail everyone out every time. There are things that matter more than individual lives, like not becoming a huge hunger monster, like not setting off the natural order. That's the burden of having godlike power, but with limit, you *can* save some people, but not everyone, and trying to save everyone will just create disaster. The melachim walked the earth once, so did Amok, and even with all their power, they couldn't make everyone happy and save everyone, NOR CAN WE. And until we accept that, Ish is totally right in not trusting us. We know the consequences of using our powers include becoming an unstoppable monster that will destroy everything, and that can't be stopped with violence, but saving the life of our friends seems more important to us, we're *exactly* the type of misguided fool that would become a hunger demon because we wouldn't let Tannach burn, or because we tried to resurrect naomi. Enkindel is not an idiot, he's just totally incapable of sacrificing people. Which is fair, but the reason we can't be trusted with these powers. TheCog fucked around with this message at 01:49 on Feb 14, 2016 |
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Feb 14, 2016 01:47
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I think Enkidel has a problem with not sacrificing people, caring too much, or not seeing the big picture because of the lack of information about himself. I feel that if he'd known he was part Melachim, a whole ton of decisions would have gone differently, especially in terms of experimenting. I think the Melachim are so obsessed with free will that they are actively affecting our own.
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Feb 14, 2016 02:05
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Decisions made in ignorance are the opposite of an exercise in free will. Here are several doors, you can go through any one that you want, and here is a clue for each door. "Red, beef, clouds, potato". You're free to open any door or just sit here and do nothing for eternity. But what's behind the doors? Those clues don't make any sense? WTF? I'm not telling you, because I want you to choose out of your own free will. Wut?
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Feb 14, 2016 02:12
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Outrail posted:Decisions made in ignorance are the opposite of an exercise in free will.
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Feb 14, 2016 02:15
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Outrail posted:Decisions made in ignorance are the opposite of an exercise in free will. What part of "doing certain things will result in catastrophic consequences, some of which you've seen firsthand" came to sound like "potato" to you?
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Feb 14, 2016 02:15
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TheCog posted:We know the consequences of using our powers include becoming an unstoppable monster that will destroy everything, and that can't be stopped with violence, but saving the life of our friends seems more important to us, we're *exactly* the type of misguided fool that would become a hunger demon because we wouldn't let Tannach burn, or because we tried to resurrect naomi. Pretty much. How many times have we been told, by the Watchers, that it is important for men to make their own foolish decisions, because to do otherwise would partially invalidate their lives? "Hey, I might deserve this, but my men don't, save hem!" "No, they do not Yet, they willingly went into danger We will not diminish their choices."
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Feb 14, 2016 02:16
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Disargeria posted:What part of "doing certain things will result in catastrophic consequences, some of which you've seen firsthand" came to sound like "potato" to you? I was speaking in generalities, not just this instance. After a while we just got sick of the non answers and in a moment of duress decided to do something stupid just to get some answers. It's a pretty logical chain of events that someone like Ish should have seen coming.
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Feb 14, 2016 02:19
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Outrail posted:I was speaking in generalities, not just this instance. After a while we just got sick of the non answers and in a moment of duress decided to do something stupid just to get some answers. It's a pretty logical chain of events that someone like Ish should have seen coming.
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Feb 14, 2016 02:22
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Outrail posted:I was speaking in generalities, not just this instance. After a while we just got sick of the non answers and in a moment of duress decided to do something stupid just to get some answers. It's a pretty logical chain of events that someone like Ish should have seen coming. We have been getting answers for a long, long time. It's just that players never got over that initial grudge and continue to project it to the present.
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Feb 14, 2016 02:35
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TheCog posted:OK, point out specifics, what did ish not answer, that had we followed his instructions, would have stopped us from having the life of any normal mighty man? It's only logical if you're not willing to play ball by ish's rules/not be a man, which we overwhelmingly agreed to do This keeps being brought up, but that "agreement" was supremely manipulative on Ishamal's part. What was the choice again? Live as a man, with all the people you know and grew up with, or leave Ur entirely? He made this ultimatum to someone barely out of childhood, someone who had no inkling of what he could actually become or his real nature. We made that choice because Ishamal made it the only real choice we had. We have other options now.
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Feb 14, 2016 02:35
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Lord Cyrahzax posted:This keeps being brought up, but that "agreement" was supremely manipulative on Ishamal's part. What was the choice again? Live as a man, with all the people you know and grew up with, or leave Ur entirely? He made this ultimatum to someone barely out of childhood, someone who had no inkling of what he could actually become or his real nature. We made that choice because Ishamal made it the only real choice we had. We have other options now. It was the real situation. We had a raw deal being born half melachim. We could have discussed options, or left. Both were available. EDIT: That night at the grove, we were explicitly told, that we would not be stopped or prevented from leaving if we so chose. TheCog fucked around with this message at 02:39 on Feb 14, 2016 |
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Feb 14, 2016 02:36
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TheCog posted:It was the real situation. We had a raw deal being born half melachim. We could have discussed options, or left. Both were available. Yeah, we could have left. But, really, there's no way it ever would have happened. That situation was framed to make us do what he wanted, to become who he wanted us to be. 'Do what I want, knowing only what I want you to know, or be exiled forever' isn't a choice made with free will.
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Feb 14, 2016 02:42
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Lord Cyrahzax posted:Yeah, we could have left. But, really, there's no way it ever would have happened. That situation was framed to make us do what he wanted, to become who he wanted us to be. 'Do what I want, knowing only what I want you to know, or be exiled forever' isn't a choice made with free will. How was it not a real choice? (Not from the point of view of the thread, but from Ish's point of view, who doesn't know we're a bunch of goons piloting Enki) No seriously, what alternative did the melachim have? Let us become a hunger demon doing something like arm-wrestling Tudya? What choices do we have now that we didn't before? Oh other than not being allowed to see the people and friends we love because we're incapable of following one simple instruction and too hardheaded to accept defeat. EDIT: I know I come off as angry and combative, and I apologize for that, I'm legitimately trying to see where people are coming from. The thread suffers from having this weird disconnect where we all see things so differently, but all so clearly, and I'd like to be able to understand *why*. I'm really not trying to be a dick. TheCog fucked around with this message at 02:50 on Feb 14, 2016 |
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Feb 14, 2016 02:44
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n/m
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Feb 14, 2016 02:48
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