Companies Circling The Drain: What about Chapter Elevenses?

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stealie72: Jan 10, 2007; Their eyes locked and suddenly there was the sound of breaking glass.
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Nevermind. Energy is wacky right now.

# ? Feb 17, 2016 03:16

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# ? Apr 19, 2024 15:09

Nostalgia4Dogges: Jun 18, 2004; Only emojis can express my pure, simple stupidity.

whatever happened to like paying a respectable wage and treating workers decent like Costco

I know there's a lot of lol capitalism or whatever jokes in there but seriously. Happy workers increased and better work production...?

obv I don't understand America

# ? Feb 17, 2016 03:34

BigBoss: Jan 26, 2012; by Lowtax

Nostalgia4Dicks posted:

whatever happened to like paying a respectable wage and treating workers decent like Costco

I know there's a lot of lol capitalism or whatever jokes in there but seriously. Happy workers increased and better work production...?

obv I don't understand America

Some time ago people became very focused on short term gains. Instant gratification is a problem that plagues our society, and is a key reason for a lot of economic woes. You could argue about the time value of money, but there is a much larger scope than one company's quarterly profits being down 6¢ a share.

# ? Feb 17, 2016 03:59

get that OUT of my face: Feb 10, 2007

BigBoss posted:

Some time ago people became very focused on short term gains.

Gonna make some effort with this post. I alluded to that earlier:

Y-Hat posted:

that's what happens when corporations almost universally subscribe to Milton Friedman's view of capitalism for over 30 years

Milton Friedman was an economist who was anti-Keynesian. After WW2 he spent a lot of time teaching his economic philosophy that said, among other things, that corporations should be accountable to their shareholders first and foremost. Shareholders care about profits and quarterly gains far more than anyone else involved with a company (employees, consumers, lower management, etc.). Naturally, people dismissed him as a piece of poo poo and a kook for a long time. But then the '70s came, the economy went south, and people looked for alternative ideas to the post-WW2 economic order. So more people flocked to that philosophy, one of whom was Ronald Reagan, who appointed Friedman as a trusted economic adviser.

Soon after Reagan became president and made it clear he was more on the side of rich people than the working and middle classes, the CEO of GE announced that he would follow this Friedmanite philosophy. That was also when paying executives with stock options became more popular. So if you made profit by cutting costs through any means necessary, that meant you'd get paid more as a result. The Friedman view of capitalism spread like a virus to almost every publicly-held company, and that's why companies like Costco are very few and far between.

tl;dr version: milton friedman thought that companies need to make profit by any means necessary, executives started doing that in the '80s, and it hasn't slowed down since

# ? Feb 17, 2016 04:42

Frosted Flake: Sep 13, 2011; Semper Shitpost Ubique

How sustainable is that? It's a broad question, but it seems like this philosophy hurts workers, companies and the economy as a whole, albeit over differing timeframes.

# ? Feb 17, 2016 06:35

TacticalUrbanHomo: Aug 17, 2011; by Lowtax

Frosted Flake posted:

How sustainable is that? It's a broad question, but it seems like this philosophy hurts workers, companies and the economy as a whole, albeit over differing timeframes.

Depends on what you're willing to do to sustain it. If you're okay with reducing the working class to effective serfdom, fighting tooth and nail over jobs that will provide them a meager sustenance only barely capable of keeping themselves and their families alive in a Holodomor-like hellscape, while all surplus labour suffers the logical consequences of that, then pretty much forever.

# ? Feb 17, 2016 06:53

Comfy Fleece Sweater: Apr 2, 2013; You see, but you do not observe.

TacticalUrbanHomo posted:

Depends on what you're willing to do to sustain it. If you're okay with reducing the working class to effective serfdom, fighting tooth and nail over jobs that will provide them a meager sustenance only barely capable of keeping themselves and their families alive in a Holodomor-like hellscape, then pretty much forever.

Ummm but if you didn't offer them this poo poo eating job, they'd be worse off, so you're still a good force of capitalism

# ? Feb 17, 2016 06:55

TacticalUrbanHomo: Aug 17, 2011; by Lowtax

Well it turns out you're actually completely impervious to moral criticism if you're willing to divest yourself of what makes us superior to all other animals and defer to the judgment of social darwinism.

# ? Feb 17, 2016 07:09

get that OUT of my face: Feb 10, 2007

Frosted Flake posted:

How sustainable is that? It's a broad question, but it seems like this philosophy hurts workers, companies and the economy as a whole, albeit over differing timeframes.

it's the root of why income inequality is so high, and we're seeing so many people in low-wage jobs from ones that paid more money that they're not using as much money on consumer goods as much as they were a decade ago. it's definitely bad for the economy in the long term (and we're arguably seeing the effects of it now), but most companies don't give a poo poo about that unless it affects their quarterly report

in other words: it's not very sustainable at all, especially since this practice has been going on unabated for more than 30 years

# ? Feb 17, 2016 07:18

Comfy Fleece Sweater: Apr 2, 2013; You see, but you do not observe.

Y-Hat posted:

it's the root of why income inequality is so high, and we're seeing so many people in low-wage jobs from ones that paid more money that they're not using as much money on consumer goods as much as they were a decade ago. it's definitely bad for the economy in the long term (and we're arguably seeing the effects of it now), but most companies don't give a poo poo about that unless it affects their quarterly report

in other words: it's not very sustainable at all, especially since this practice has been going on unabated for more than 30 years

But if they took away those jobs the economy would be worse, so Milton Friedmans theory is working

# ? Feb 17, 2016 07:29

kazr: Jan 28, 2005

Frosted Flake posted:

How sustainable is that? It's a broad question, but it seems like this philosophy hurts workers, companies and the economy as a whole, albeit over differing timeframes.

People are pissed right now. They blame the Obama boogeyman/THE LIBERALS, mexicans/other illegal immigrants stealing jobs, the moral and social decay of our society but the fact is that the common person is getting squeezed more and more each year. Wages have been basically stagnant for twenty+ years and unemployment is what.. 6%? but that's only counting the people actively looking for employment being counted by the labor department.

We're entering or getting very close to the next recession and hopefully it's not anywhere close to 2008 but this has been one of the slowest economic recoveries in recent US history, another nose dive and mass panic, lay offs, commodity price jumps, and whatever else goes with it is not going to be great for national moral and long term economic health.

There are millions of millennials leaving school and entering the job market that are tens of thousands of dollars in debt that do not have great prospects of landing that 50k+ job they were promised their entire childhood if they went to college. Saw a statistic that something like 45% of Americans made less than 30k last year. The federal poverty line is like 19k, but when was that cut off was last evaluated?

You see all the mass shootings in the media that are getting more rampant every year, poo poo like what happened in Burns and it's easy to blame solely on lack of gun control but looking at other countries like Japan they have mass stabbings and knife violence that's off the charts. People aren't meant to be ground into the dirt with zero prospects day after day for near minimum wage while getting poo poo shoved into their mouth and being forced to smile and ask for more for the sake of corporate and shareholder profits.

This is a big dumb serious post on our favorite gay dying comedy forum and I don't believe it's far from the true answer but sadly we're going to keep getting hosed by the elite until this is absolutely not sustainable and tragic and drastic things happen.

tldr no and I'm an rear end hole for posting this thanks

# ? Feb 17, 2016 09:44

Tiny Timbs: Sep 6, 2008

kazr posted:

People are pissed right now. They blame the Obama boogeyman/THE LIBERALS, mexicans/other illegal immigrants stealing jobs, the moral and social decay of our society but the fact is that the common person is getting squeezed more and more each year. Wages have been basically stagnant for twenty+ years and unemployment is what.. 6%? but that's only counting the people actively looking for employment being counted by the labor department.

We're entering or getting very close to the next recession and hopefully it's not anywhere close to 2008 but this has been one of the slowest economic recoveries in recent US history, another nose dive and mass panic, lay offs, commodity price jumps, and whatever else goes with it is not going to be great for national moral and long term economic health.

There are millions of millennials leaving school and entering the job market that are tens of thousands of dollars in debt that do not have great prospects of landing that 50k+ job they were promised their entire childhood if they went to college. Saw a statistic that something like 45% of Americans made less than 30k last year. The federal poverty line is like 19k, but when was that cut off was last evaluated?

You see all the mass shootings in the media that are getting more rampant every year, poo poo like what happened in Burns and it's easy to blame solely on lack of gun control but looking at other countries like Japan they have mass stabbings and knife violence that's off the charts. People aren't meant to be ground into the dirt with zero prospects day after day for near minimum wage while getting poo poo shoved into their mouth and being forced to smile and ask for more for the sake of corporate and shareholder profits.

This is a big dumb serious post on our favorite gay dying comedy forum and I don't believe it's far from the true answer but sadly we're going to keep getting hosed by the elite until this is absolutely not sustainable and tragic and drastic things happen.

tldr no and I'm an rear end hole for posting this thanks

The perpetrators of mass shootings and stabbing rarely seem to have a motivation or background anywhere close to what you're describing

# ? Feb 17, 2016 13:33

Houle: Oct 21, 2010

The shootings and stabbing are more in line with the stigma of mental illness making it difficult to help people combined with ostricizing those who are different mixed in with the availability of travel, proximity to others and weaponry. Drug abuse would fall more in line with what you were trying to hypothesize. And even then that is a show other set of issues and problems.

# ? Feb 17, 2016 14:36

Wicker Man: Sep 5, 2007; Just like Columbus...; Clapping Larry

One of the mass stabbings in China was specifically by a sexually frustrated man. He chose an elementary school as his target :smith:

# ? Feb 17, 2016 14:46

BigBoss: Jan 26, 2012; by Lowtax

TheWhiteNightmare posted:

The perpetrators of mass shootings and stabbing rarely seem to have a motivation or background anywhere close to what you're describing

Not a single shooter or stabber was a high paid individual with great career prospects. If things are going well, people tend not to flip their poo poo. I know saying gun control is a red herring bad aid is contrary to popular belief, but it's true. The fundamental reason people go nuts isn't access to guns, its that their lives are not going well.

# ? Feb 17, 2016 14:56

OXBALLS DOT COM: Sep 11, 2005; by FactsAreUseless; Young Orc

BigBoss posted:

Not a single shooter or stabber was a high paid individual with great career prospects. If things are going well, people tend not to flip their poo poo. I know saying gun control is a red herring bad aid is contrary to popular belief, but it's true. The fundamental reason people go nuts isn't access to guns, its that their lives are not going well.

There was a whole book on this that made a good case.

http://www.amazon.com/Going-Postal-Rebellion-Workplaces-Columbine/dp/1932360824
http://www.alternet.org/story/24796/a_brief_history_of_rage,_murder_and_rebellion

# ? Feb 17, 2016 15:09

OXBALLS DOT COM: Sep 11, 2005; by FactsAreUseless; Young Orc

Wicker Man posted:

One of the mass stabbings in China was specifically by a sexually frustrated man. He chose an elementary school as his target

if you want to get married and have kids in china you need a whole lot of money or else no woman will even look at you. so it makes sense that he will strike out at the people who have what he will never get

# ? Feb 17, 2016 15:12

EvilJoven: Mar 18, 2005; NOBODY,IN THE HISTORY OF EVER, HAS ASKED OR CARED WHAT CANADA THINKS. YOU ARE NOT A COUNTRY. YOUR MONEY HAS THE QUEEN OF ENGLAND ON IT. IF YOU DIG AROUND IN YOUR BACKYARD, NATIVE SKELETONS WOULD EXPLODE OUT OF YOUR LAWN LIKE THE END OF POLTERGEIST. CANADA IS SO POLITE, EH?; Fun Shoe

Frosted Flake posted:

How sustainable is that? It's a broad question, but it seems like this philosophy hurts workers, companies and the economy as a whole, albeit over differing timeframes.

Think about how many people joke about 'the revolution' and 'putting people against the wall'

Now think about how many of those people might not be joking.

The Arab spring, Syrian war, all that turmoil was triggered as much by too many people being out of work and having the screws put to them one time too many. Hell, the event that many say was the final straw that triggered the Arab Spring was a cop arresting a guy who was out of work and trying to feed himself by being an illegal street vendor.

# ? Feb 17, 2016 15:32

OXBALLS DOT COM: Sep 11, 2005; by FactsAreUseless; Young Orc

BigBoss posted:

Not a single shooter or stabber was a high paid individual with great career prospects. If things are going well, people tend not to flip their poo poo. I know saying gun control is a red herring bad aid is contrary to popular belief, but it's true. The fundamental reason people go nuts isn't access to guns, its that their lives are not going well.

USually it's a combination of economic stressors plus personal problems. A lot of these guys have gone through things like multiple deaths in the family in addition to feeling crushed by work and society. Most of them will be at least a little nuts because normal people don't usually question the values of their society.

People thought john brown was an unstable lunatic too, and honestly he was. but he was also right.

# ? Feb 17, 2016 15:36

Tiny Timbs: Sep 6, 2008

EvilJoven posted:

Think about how many people joke about 'the revolution' and 'putting people against the wall'

Now think about how many of those people might not be joking.

There are a few posters in D&D but invariably you find out that they move in and out of group living homes and are being treated for a variety of behavioral disorders :shrug:

# ? Feb 17, 2016 15:40

Thunder God Biden: Sep 8, 2004; Israel is not a legitimate entity, and no amount of pressure can force us to recognize its right to exist.

EvilJoven posted:

Think about how many people joke about 'the revolution' and 'putting people against the wall'

Now think about how many of those people might not be joking.

The Arab spring, Syrian war, all that turmoil was triggered as much by too many people being out of work and having the screws put to them one time too many. Hell, the event that many say was the final straw that triggered the Arab Spring was a cop arresting a guy who was out of work and trying to feed himself by being an illegal street vendor.

His name was Mohamed Bouazizi. NWBTCW

# ? Feb 17, 2016 16:28

Frosted Flake: Sep 13, 2011; Semper Shitpost Ubique

So, even with guaranteed annual income, this economic trend continues, only with guaranteed customers?

# ? Feb 17, 2016 18:23

canyoneer: Sep 13, 2005; I only have canyoneyes for you

Frosted Flake posted:

How sustainable is that? It's a broad question, but it seems like this philosophy hurts workers, companies and the economy as a whole, albeit over differing timeframes.

I had an organizational behavior professor who used to say "in the long run, companies get the kind of employees they deserve". Probably true.

There's been some buzz in the US about having the SEC require only annual filings rather than quarterly. That means that companies should hopefully be focused on long term performance rather than hitting their quarterly guidance.

It's funny and sad when you look at studies that show companies performance compared to forecasts. They never have near misses, they either have big misses or they are right on or just over guidance, where you'd expect a normal distribution. That means there is likely some creativity in accounting to " manage" earnings

# ? Feb 17, 2016 18:35

Moridin920: Nov 15, 2007; by FactsAreUseless

canyoneer posted:

It's funny and sad when you look at studies that show companies performance compared to forecasts. They never have near misses, they either have big misses or they are right on or just over guidance, where you'd expect a normal distribution. That means there is likely some creativity in accounting to " manage" earnings

I haven't seen a study that shows a distribution I guess but is that really true? ATVI just had a near miss last week. It's not that uncommon.

quote:

That means there is likely some creativity in accounting to " manage" earnings

that's true for many companies though yeah but it usually shows through on their fundamentals

# ? Feb 17, 2016 18:38

OXBALLS DOT COM: Sep 11, 2005; by FactsAreUseless; Young Orc

canyoneer posted:

I had an organizational behavior professor who used to say "in the long run, companies get the kind of employees they deserve". Probably true.

There's been some buzz in the US about having the SEC require only annual filings rather than quarterly. That means that companies should hopefully be focused on long term performance rather than hitting their quarterly guidance.

It's funny and sad when you look at studies that show companies performance compared to forecasts. They never have near misses, they either have big misses or they are right on or just over guidance, where you'd expect a normal distribution. That means there is likely some creativity in accounting to " manage" earnings

This is how the Chinese government does ot too, except they're never wrong

# ? Feb 17, 2016 18:40

NihilismNow: Aug 31, 2003

Globalisation hosed us all. If you live in a western country you make too much compared to someone doing your job in a developing country.
Things will never get better during your lifetime, you will only know a gradual decrease of your standard of living and increased competition. Unless you can manage to break into the upper 10-20% of society, then things will probably be ok.

# ? Feb 17, 2016 19:06

bradzilla: Oct 15, 2004

NihilismNow posted:

Globalisation hosed us all. If you live in a western country you make too much compared to someone doing your job in a developing country.
Things will never get better during your lifetime, you will only know a gradual decrease of your standard of living and increased competition. Unless you can manage to break into the upper 10-20% of society, then things will probably be ok.

Nice username/post combo

# ? Feb 17, 2016 19:09

fabergay egg: Mar 1, 2012; it's not a rhetorical question, for politely saying 'you are an idiot, you don't know what you are talking about'

NihilismNow posted:

Globalisation hosed us all. If you live in a western country you make too much compared to someone doing your job in a developing country.
Things will never get better during your lifetime, you will only know a gradual decrease of your standard of living and increased competition. Unless you can manage to break into the upper 10-20% of society, then things will probably be ok.

Embrace full nihilism and carve your will unto this wretched earth!

# ? Feb 17, 2016 20:40

shiksa: Nov 9, 2009; i went to one of these wrestling shows and it was... honestly? frickin boring. i wanna see ricky! i want to see his gold chains and respect for the ftw lifestyle

This thread got gay and lame.

Whens the last time you can honestly say that you've been to burger king

# ? Feb 17, 2016 22:01

Moridin920: Nov 15, 2007; by FactsAreUseless

shiksa posted:

This thread got gay and lame.

Whens the last time you can honestly say that you've been to burger king

3 months ago

it was actually super disappointing given the price and overall quality of the food. Like the food was okay (but not quite as good as I remember BK being) but gently caress off for $14 (burger fries and drink) I can eat at a restaurant. I'll give them another chance next year maybe but idk my faith was shaken.

Oh also last month I had McDonald's and liked that they had the pick 2 for 2 (because I usually just get 2 McDoubles n fries anyway) but then I went back last week and it was gone and I ended up paying what I felt like was an outrageous amount of money given the food I got.

In n Out is way cheaper than both and way better in terms of taste and overall quality of ingredients than both.

# ? Feb 17, 2016 22:06

Xaris: Jul 25, 2006; Lucky there's a family guy
Lucky there's a man who positively can do
All the things that make us
Laugh and cry

shiksa posted:

This thread got gay and lame.

Whens the last time you can honestly say that you've been to burger king

do they still give out those paper hats?

so probably like 1997 for me

now i want a hamburger, i'll probably just get nations or in n out

# ? Feb 17, 2016 22:07

Moridin920: Nov 15, 2007; by FactsAreUseless

And now that I'm googling the 'pick 2' thing it seems like they loving should still have it and apparently that one location ditched it for no reason and charged me like $3.60+ for 2 McDoubles?

What the hell is the point of being a franchise then I could have just gotten In n Out ffs.

# ? Feb 17, 2016 22:09

EvilJoven: Mar 18, 2005; NOBODY,IN THE HISTORY OF EVER, HAS ASKED OR CARED WHAT CANADA THINKS. YOU ARE NOT A COUNTRY. YOUR MONEY HAS THE QUEEN OF ENGLAND ON IT. IF YOU DIG AROUND IN YOUR BACKYARD, NATIVE SKELETONS WOULD EXPLODE OUT OF YOUR LAWN LIKE THE END OF POLTERGEIST. CANADA IS SO POLITE, EH?; Fun Shoe

Last time I got BK it was at one of those BKs inside a movie theater and I spent the last half of the movie sitting on the toilet.

gently caress Burger King.

# ? Feb 17, 2016 23:59

EvilJoven: Mar 18, 2005; NOBODY,IN THE HISTORY OF EVER, HAS ASKED OR CARED WHAT CANADA THINKS. YOU ARE NOT A COUNTRY. YOUR MONEY HAS THE QUEEN OF ENGLAND ON IT. IF YOU DIG AROUND IN YOUR BACKYARD, NATIVE SKELETONS WOULD EXPLODE OUT OF YOUR LAWN LIKE THE END OF POLTERGEIST. CANADA IS SO POLITE, EH?; Fun Shoe

In other news Canadian transportation darling Bombardier got a giant bail out from the government then announced it was selling several billion dollars worth of airplanes to Air Canada and also laying off 7000 people over the next two years.

I don't know what the gently caress.

# ? Feb 18, 2016 00:01

Moridin920: Nov 15, 2007; by FactsAreUseless

EvilJoven posted:

In other news Canadian transportation darling Bombardier got a giant bail out from the government then announced it was selling several billion dollars worth of airplanes to Air Canada and also laying off 7000 people over the next two years.

I don't know what the gently caress.

layoffs aren't necessarily indicative of anything by themselves, companies post record profits then have a round of layoffs all the time.

selling off assets + getting bail outs means cash flow issues though yeah

# ? Feb 18, 2016 00:04

EvilJoven: Mar 18, 2005; NOBODY,IN THE HISTORY OF EVER, HAS ASKED OR CARED WHAT CANADA THINKS. YOU ARE NOT A COUNTRY. YOUR MONEY HAS THE QUEEN OF ENGLAND ON IT. IF YOU DIG AROUND IN YOUR BACKYARD, NATIVE SKELETONS WOULD EXPLODE OUT OF YOUR LAWN LIKE THE END OF POLTERGEIST. CANADA IS SO POLITE, EH?; Fun Shoe

Moridin920 posted:

layoffs aren't necessarily indicative of anything by themselves, companies post record profits then have a round of layoffs all the time.

selling off assets + getting bail outs means cash flow issues though yeah

They make airplanes. That's a product sale.

# ? Feb 18, 2016 00:07

Happy Bear Suit: Jul 21, 2004

5 guys burgers and fries is going to be the next bubble

where i live they are all of a sudden popping up everywhere all over the place. $35 burger meals for 2 isnt gonna be a thing for very long.

theyre gonna go the way of krispy kreme, calling it right now.

# ? Feb 18, 2016 00:25

Moridin920: Nov 15, 2007; by FactsAreUseless

EvilJoven posted:

They make airplanes. That's a product sale.

Oh!

Well that's a good ol' fashioned 'use accounting tricks to look hosed and unable to pay debts so we get a bailout then take advantage of that to also do layoffs and cut labor down.'

Not too hard with some (legal!) invoice shuffling assuming someone in government is on board with it (that's what lobbyists are for!) because under scrutiny it's fairly obvious.

Dunno companies do poo poo like that all the time and they're actually fine and just taking advantage of what they can get away with.

Moridin920 has a new favorite as of 00:29 on Feb 18, 2016

# ? Feb 18, 2016 00:27

ProperCauldron: Oct 11, 2004; nah chill

Are there any GBS threads that won't leave me certain that the world is nothing but a giant poo poo pile?

# ? Feb 18, 2016 01:13

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# ? Apr 19, 2024 15:09

Moridin920: Nov 15, 2007; by FactsAreUseless

ProperCoochie posted:

Are there any GBS threads that won't leave me certain that the world is nothing but a giant poo poo pile?

we had a nice thread where we reposted images of ladies posting themselves working out but someone in BYOB said it was creepy I guess and that was that

best goddamn thread in gbs

# ? Feb 18, 2016 01:16

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