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1) They mark them up like that because there's a sucker born every minute, and they are hoping one of them will pay it (or nearly). Once it sits around their lot for a long time not selling they might lower it, or at least come down in negotiations. But new inventory is always overpriced on used car lots. 2) KBB is kind of bullshit for a lot of cars depending on the region and brand/model. For example, here in the Northwest, even 15 year old average condition Subarus of any kind with 150k+ miles are still listed with prices of $10k, far above KBB value. Presumably they sell for under asking price, but almost definitely still considerably above KBB in most cases. Hell, when I sold my old Miata I got like 30% more than KBB value in a private party sale, and that was still a good deal for the buyer based on the local market. A decent condition Honda/Toyota econobox is always going to sell for more than KBB because not-car-people have always been told "only buy a Honda/Toyota" and thus overpay for them. KBB is hardly gospel. A car is worth what someone will buy it for, and there are a lot of people out there willing to overpay. Used car lots tend to be pretty bad places to buy cars, you're almost always better off through a private party seller and a mechanic's inspection. Buying good used cars for a reasonable price is a game of patience. It's when you are in a hurry or get too emotionally invested that you get screwed. Also the "wisdom" of "always buy used" is definitely more popular than it used to be, which has really inflated used car prices. Problem is, people take it too far and throw common sense out the window. If you're looking at lightly used economy cars that are less than 5 years old often times the price gap between brand new and ~3 years old is only a couple thousand bucks, if that. If you're in good financial shape it's almost a no-brainer to buy new at that point since you get to be the original owner, get it exactly how you want, get a full warranty, etc. Guinness fucked around with this message at 01:54 on Feb 18, 2016 |
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Feb 18, 2016 01:43
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tater_salad posted:I'm not saying that all prises have isues they may be reliable as a freight train This is literally the opposite of your initial claim. Also, your claim that a corolla or civic will get "nearly" the same mileage is ridiculous since they both lag behind by 10+ miles a gallon in actual mileage ratings and all the statistical data I've seen says that Prius mileage doesn't really drop off with age unless the battery straight up loving dies, which, as shown in all sample sizes greater than one digit, is far less common than naysayers insist. As for the brake booster complaint, when did that happen, because Toyota put out a recall on brake booster parts a couple years ago and your friend may have just been caught on the wrong side of the announcement.
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Feb 18, 2016 01:47
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mr. stefan posted:This is literally the opposite of your initial claim. Also, your claim that a corolla or civic will get "nearly" the same mileage is ridiculous since they both lag behind by 10+ miles a gallon in actual mileage ratings and all the statistical data I've seen says that Prius mileage doesn't really drop off with age unless the battery straight up loving dies, which, as shown in all sample sizes greater than one digit, is far less common than naysayers insist. I meant if the battery is dead and you are driving gas only you are getting 30mpg which is civic mpg, ir was in response to (thr car doesn't stp working if the battery died) with aworking batt you are getting 45 or so. I will recuse myself from prius chat, when I looked and dug around the Internet I found that 10 years seemed to be a scary age for a prius battery and 2500-3000 repair wasn't something I wanted to risk.
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Feb 18, 2016 03:27
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While it's a lot of money, it's not very different from a transmission rebuild or engine rebuild, which are both things that can happen around the same time.
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Feb 18, 2016 06:25
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Grumpwagon posted:Um, I'm not sure where you're getting your information for that, but many sources have been cited throughout the thread showing the Prius is literally the most reliable car ever made. There are aftermarket battery packs that are not nearly $4500. Not only that, but a battery at low health doesn't affect the operation of the car. Your mileage will be hurt, but it will still be close to class leading. Yes, but it can/will set a CEL for a bad HV battery, and in any place that emissions tests a car that might as well be a blown transmission. With that said, the cab companies would not run so many goddamn Priuses if they didn't cost dramatically less to own (fuel + maintenance combined) than any other vehicle. They clung to Crown Vics until the bitter end because while they sucked down gas, they could be repaired on a shoestring budget. The Prius may have a few possible big-ticket items, but they rarely fail and over the life of the car aren't anything out of the ordinary for any other vehicle. If we're quoting worst-case numbers at each other here, paying a shop full retail rates to do a clutch job on just about any car could easily rack up a $1k repair bill, and that's a goddamn wear item.
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Feb 18, 2016 06:53
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IOwnCalculus posted:Yes, but it can/will set a CEL for a bad HV battery, and in any place that emissions tests a car that might as well be a blown transmission. In california, hybrids are smog exempt, so it wouldn't matter. That said the horror expressed about a $1000 one time repair at 150-300k is hilarious. Go get a quote for brakes on a bmw at a dealer and it will be more. Decent 20in tires too.
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Feb 18, 2016 07:44
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tater_salad posted:A 10 year old gm is asking for poo poo to break, especially because they start breaking at year 4. Look at toyota and honda if buying 10 year old heaps be prepared to do timing belts and poo poo. This meme has always sort of annoyed me. GM can be pretty good at times. My first car was a 16 year old Bonneville and the only thing showing age was the auto's clutch (maybe). Only issue was fixing the power windows. What I'm trying to say is the 3800 is pretty okay. My family who worked at GM have absolutely no bearing on my opinion at all. Eskaton fucked around with this message at 09:37 on Feb 18, 2016 |
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Feb 18, 2016 09:34
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I would recommend a used 2004 prius to anyone. You can find one owner ones cheap all the time. Just avoid the curb stoners. I have purchased two that have had Toyota dealer service every 5000 miles. They need shocks but I can live without them since they ride like poop anyway. My newer one has the JBL stereo, it is better then the one without. I also leased a new Buick for $185 a month for 24 month no money down, so I have to qualify my advice as tainted. It has 1.4L of turbo fury and weights 3000 pounds. It is not a good decision but I like having a new car to go to clients.
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Feb 18, 2016 16:53
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nm posted:In california, hybrids are smog exempt, so it wouldn't matter. I don't think that's true: http://www.bar.ca.gov/Industry/Industry_Resources/Hybrid_Vehicles.html
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Feb 18, 2016 17:00
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Elephanthead posted:I also leased a new Buick for $185 a month for 24 month no money down, so I have to qualify my advice as tainted. It has 1.4L of turbo fury and weights 3000 pounds. It is not a good decision but I like having a new car to go to clients. That's an awesome lease deal. Is the Verano actually a decent car? I think that the modern Regal looks great, but the Verano just looks like the same old GM compact car poo poo at first impression.
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Feb 18, 2016 17:19
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Twerk from Home posted:That's an awesome lease deal. Is the Verano actually a decent car? I think that the modern Regal looks great, but the Verano just looks like the same old GM compact car poo poo at first impression. No 1.4l Verano last time I checked so he probably means Encore.
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Feb 18, 2016 19:29
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Throatwarbler posted:No 1.4l Verano last time I checked so he probably means Encore. Interesting, that sounds like a very good price for a high 20s MSRP crossover, given most manufacturers are using crossovers as cash cows right now.
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Feb 18, 2016 20:21
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Twerk from Home posted:Interesting, that sounds like a very good price for a high 20s MSRP crossover, given most manufacturers are using crossovers as cash cows right now. Buick is desperately trying to convince people it isn't just a brand for your grandparents, I imagine that has something to do with aggressive pricing.
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Feb 18, 2016 21:12
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IRQ posted:Buick is desperately trying to convince people it isn't just a brand for your grandparents, I imagine that has something to do with aggressive pricing. They do really well in China for some reason, which is probably why they weren't cut when Pontiac was.
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Feb 19, 2016 19:39
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New Buicks are nice but I'm just not convinced there's a very big near-luxury market in the US anymore, especially with mass market brands moving up. I just drove a 2016 Chevy Impala 2LT and a 2016 Buick LaCrosse with the leather package back-to-back. It's on the same platform. Both had CarPlay, the 3.6L high feature V6, leather, etc. Here's what's better about the Buick: 1. Softer leather on the seats 2. Digital speedometer 3. Nicer looking wood on the interior 4. Significantly quieter 5. Nicer steering wheel design with better buttons The LaCrosse costs $4,000 more. The Impala is plenty nice, quiet, smooth riding and does all the good things that a Buick should. Why pay $4,000 for an uglier version of the same car that doesn't have very many compelling advantages? In China, Buick sells a lot of Excelles and weird crossovers that we don't get (also the Encore, which we do).
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Feb 19, 2016 19:51
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Well the only unique crossover they have is the Envision and its coming to the US. They do have the U body minivan and a couple of small sedans and a hatch though. The thing about Buick is that in China they are not seen as a premium brand, but about on par with Toyota or VW, and in China 1) there's a couple more tiers underneath Toyota or VW that don't necessarily exist in North America, and 2) It's like that because Chevy wasn't a brand in China until the last few years so Buick also sold models (like the Excelle) that would have been Chevys in other markets. SO they are not going to ever reach the same kind of volume in North America as they do in China, and their cars are never going to be on par with Lexus or Audi. You can also get the Lacrosse with AWD which is a non trivial difference in some markets.
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Feb 19, 2016 21:00
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Yeah the new Impala owns. Great highway cruiser.
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Feb 19, 2016 22:19
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Throatwarbler posted:You can also get the Lacrosse with AWD which is a non trivial difference in some markets. I wish i could find take rate broken out but I bet it's tiny.
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Feb 19, 2016 22:23
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Well half the poo poo I just listed has already sold and I'm feeling good enough about myself lately that I'm not going to consider any more J-bodies, so how about these protoges http://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/...gationFlag=true http://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/...gationFlag=true Throatwarbler fucked around with this message at 22:05 on Feb 21, 2016 |
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Feb 21, 2016 22:02
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Proposed Budget: $10k - $15k New or Used: Used Body Style: Sedan How will you be using the car?: Will be mostly using it as a commuter car, it would be nice if i can take friedns places in it and go up into the mountains on odd occasions (not enough to get something super focused on that) What aspects are most important to you? I would consider the overall cost of ownership to be the most important aspect for me. Have a aux jack and usb would be nice, but the aux jack is far more important. I am going to be turning in a FR-S lease in April so I am looking for something allot more practical. I personally didn't mind the lack of tech or harder suspension, but I did find the inablilty to take 3 friends places annoying. I am also hoping to get away from rear-wheel drive as it was a pain in some snow situations and on back roads. As this is basically the most bland requirements possible, I am leaning towards getting a civic or a accord as I know they will stay functional for a while. I am posting in case there are some better other options for a car 2-6 years used that would hit the same price range.
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Feb 22, 2016 02:07
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Ingenium posted:As this is basically the most bland requirements possible, I am leaning towards getting a civic or a accord as I know they will stay functional for a while. I am posting in case there are some better other options for a car 2-6 years used that would hit the same price range. A civic or a prius will check all these boxes. The civic will even have a really nice backup camera. (The Prius one is garbage.)
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Feb 22, 2016 02:57
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Well I'm closing in on a 2011 Prius iii with 55k miles for $12.5k out the door (pending a pre-puchase inspection). Carfax is clean and test drive was good. I think I did ok! So thanks thread.
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Feb 22, 2016 23:55
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Quote isn't edit!
Quabzor fucked around with this message at 07:18 on Feb 23, 2016 |
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Feb 23, 2016 07:16
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So, I am at the point where I want a new car, but I've read here or maybe somewhere else that if there is nothing wrong with your car, then don't buy one. I've got an 5-speed 01 civic(150,000 miles) with a handful of cosmetic problems, but nothing mechanically wrong with it. I put less than 10 miles on it on average daily now for a work, but will be starting up school in the fall where the nearest college is ~30 miles one way. At this point I'm just curious in how to weigh the eventual hopefully not soon to be repair costs vs. A car payment on a reasonable sedan. Bonus data, I just got about a grand from a shithead kid that threw a landscaping brick through my window and am wondering if I should just sell my car and put the money towards a down payment.
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Feb 23, 2016 07:17
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Quabzor posted:So, I am at the point where I want a new car, but I've read here or maybe somewhere else that if there is nothing wrong with your car, then don't buy one. Keep the Civic, give it basic maintenance, and drive it until the wheels fall off. You already own one of the greatest college-student cars ever built. It's reliable, cheap to run, and if you want to work on it yourself you can't swing a wrench without hitting people who have done everything it's possible to do to a Civic and are happy to walk you through it. The one major weak point of Civics from that era is the automatic transmission, and you don't even have one of those. It is exactly the car people say you should buy for college, except you have the bonus of owning it for a while and knowing its quirks. You will almost never come out ahead financially buying a new car. Car payments loving suck even when you don't have to worry about tuition and student loans, and it takes a lot of maintenance and repairs to add up to even a low-end car payment. Also, you do not want to take a nice pretty new car into a college parking lot - way better to take the inevitable dings on something that's already dinged up, instead of having a careless kid swing their door into your brand new paint job at full speed. The only exception I can think of is if by "cosmetic issues" you mean "I live in a rust-belt state, the car's floor is structural carpet, and the strut towers look like rusty cobwebs". But, as long as it's mechanically sound, keep that drat car.
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Feb 23, 2016 15:55
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Hi! I need some car advice. I am in the EU and my new job is getting me a free lease car of the following models: VW Polo, Renault 208, Mazda 2, Opel Corsa, Mini, Alfa mito, Ford Fiesta, Fiat 500, Citroen C3. I don't really like French or Italian cars so I think those are out. How does the Polo, Corsa, Mazda 2 and Fiesta compare and which would you go for. Petrol is payed by the company so consumption is not that much of an issue. I like boot space and drive a lot on motorways. Which one do you suggest?
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Feb 23, 2016 15:58
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The new Mazda2's interior is super nice, but I'm not sure what engine you're going to get with it. I know that they have the Skyactiv 1.5L, but I haven't researched overseas market available for cars the US isn't getting in a while. Go test drive all 4, see what you like.
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Feb 23, 2016 17:37
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Quabzor posted:So, I am at the point where I want a new car, but I've read here or maybe somewhere else that if there is nothing wrong with your car, then don't buy one. Payments on a replacement of that car are like $200/month or $2,400/year used, $300/$3,600 new. As long as you can keep your basic maintenance and inconvenience below that, keep it. You've done the timing belt right? Put $200/month into a savings account called "car repair or replacement" and when it comes time you will have the money. Buy AAA if you don't have it, and if your car breaks down, rent via them. Literally once you schedule the tow say "and I heard you can get me a cheap car rental because mine is busted?" You will get a $car for a week for less than the monthly payment on your "new" car. Track it in a spreadsheet against the cost of payments.
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Feb 23, 2016 19:41
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What are the goon thoughts on Prius gen2 vs gen3?
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Feb 23, 2016 19:50
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khysanth posted:What are the goon thoughts on Prius gen2 vs gen3? They're both good. People in the thread tend to recommend the gen 2 because they're cheaper, and there's even more reliability data on them, but they're both good.
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Feb 23, 2016 20:40
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Proposed Budget: $40k upper limit, but less is better New or Used: New, or potentially very lightly used Body Style: Hatchback/Wagon preferred, but Sedan possibly How will you be using the car?: Daily driver & outdoorsy road trips (skiing, hiking, backpacking, climbing, biking, etc.) Do you prefer a luxury vehicle with all the gizmos?): Yes, to an extent. I currently own a 2004 BMW 330Ci so I am used to a certain level of features, comfort, and fit & finish. What aspects are most important to you?:
So that said, new cars I've been considering:
Alternatively, some used cars that might fit:
Am I missing anything really obvious here? I feel like with my preferences I've backed myself into a corner with very few options in the USA. 
Guinness fucked around with this message at 21:14 on Feb 23, 2016 |
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Feb 23, 2016 20:54
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khysanth posted:What are the goon thoughts on Prius gen2 vs gen3? Rumor is that the gen2 was slightly better built, but there is no real data to back that up, plus any difference would be offset by the gen 3 being a newer car. Just don't buy a gen4. Ugly as sin, even compared to gen 2 and 3. Edit: I honestly haven't heard of many issues with the golf r. All the higher performance compacts have some achilles heal. The sti has pistons, the wrx has transmission, the r has vw poo poo, mazda has engine mounts, and the ford will have something. Edit2: if your definition of reliability os gets you home, my ej257 ran 30k mi incl. track days on two hosed pistons and ran every day until I hosed the transmission (Results not normal. Required about 10L of oil every 4000mi.) nm fucked around with this message at 21:00 on Feb 23, 2016 |
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Feb 23, 2016 20:55
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Theres no way they ever sold a manual 335 wagon in the U.S.. I think 3 series wagons were only 328xi. If you want wagon and manual then im almost certain the golf wsgon is the only one on the market. If you are ok with sedan then Bmw or audi, theres the acura tl and infiniti as already mentioned but those are probably too old for what you want. Could you get a Tacoma with a cap? Those in theory could be manual trans and 4x4 but maybe not both.
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Feb 23, 2016 21:26
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nm posted:Just don't buy a gen4. Ugly as sin, even compared to gen 2 and 3. I don't understand this at all, the gen 4 is lighter, better inside, and supposedly drives much better with double wishbone rear suspension. Why not?
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Feb 23, 2016 21:28
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Quabzor posted:So, I am at the point where I want a new car, but I've read here or maybe somewhere else that if there is nothing wrong with your car, then don't buy one. My wife received a new car before she went to college and over the next 4 years it got tore up. 4 minor fender benders, countless door dings. Granted this was LSU, an old college that wasn't designed to have cars on most of the campus, but still, I'm of the opinion taking a new car to college is about the dumbest thing you can do. Having a beater where you don't care if the door gets dinged or a bumper gets smooshed a little is awesome. From a financial side of things, keeping your car right now is also the smartest thing you can do. You're at the bottom of the depreciation curve, and a 2001 Civic is pretty inexpensive to repair. Worse case scenario you could find a shop to drop a rebuilt drive train in there for less than a years worth of average car payments. Insurance is probably cheap, it gets good mileage. The only thing I would be worried about is it being stolen. Yes you'll have some repair costs come up, but a year of 300/mo car payments is 3600 dollars, I can't imagine that car needing 3600 in repairs in any given year even paying a shop to do all the work. skipdogg fucked around with this message at 21:44 on Feb 23, 2016 |
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Feb 23, 2016 21:38
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Throatwarbler posted:Theres no way they ever sold a manual 335 wagon in the U.S.. I think 3 series wagons were only 328xi. Yeah, I think you're right. An E90 328xi wagon might be kind of cool with a manual since it would still have the N/A I6 rather than the turbo 4 of the F30. Just rare as hens teeth to find one for a fair price. I'm just not going to spend 30k+ on a 5 year old BMW 3-series with 60k miles on it when the same money buys a new WRX or Golf R. If I could snag a 2010-2011 328xi wagon manual for more like sub-20k I might be more into it. That's what the sedans seem to go for, but the wagons are marked way up on the used market. quote:Could you get a Tacoma with a cap? Those in theory could be manual trans and 4x4 but maybe not both. To be honest, I've actually considered this I just didn't write it in my post. You can actually get the new Taco with a 6-speed and 4x4. But even for a "small" truck it's a pretty huge vehicle for city living, and even if it is fun for a truck it isn't in the same league as a WRX or Golf R. Guinness fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Feb 23, 2016 |
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Feb 23, 2016 21:40
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Twerk from Home posted:I don't understand this at all, the gen 4 is lighter, better inside, and supposedly drives much better with double wishbone rear suspension. Why not? Have you looked at it?
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Feb 23, 2016 22:34
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nm posted:Have you looked at it? It's not like any Prius isn't hideous.
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Feb 23, 2016 22:39
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nm posted:Have you looked at it? Check your shame at the door.
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Feb 23, 2016 22:44
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