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Soothing Vapors posted:you should let jessica jones.... inside of you *studio audience groans*
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Feb 19, 2016 22:50
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Didn't anyone think to check how toxic his masculinity was?
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Feb 19, 2016 22:51
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The two Netflix series are pretty much even qualitywise, though I think Jessica Jones edges Daredevil out in basically everything but the fight scenes and costuming.
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Feb 20, 2016 02:13
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Mameluke posted:The two Netflix series are pretty much even qualitywise, though I think Jessica Jones edges Daredevil out in basically everything but the fight scenes and costuming. I don't know, lots of people here bitched heavily about the red ninja costume...
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Feb 20, 2016 04:51
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I watched the first 7 episodes when they first came out but couldn't finish the show until tonight. I think the problem is that there were too many slow parts, exacerbated by the whole "I want to be a hero so I won't kill Kilgrave, instead getting a bunch of other people killed." Daredevil also had slow parts, and it makes me think Netflix should switch to 10 episode seasons.
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Feb 20, 2016 05:35
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Or hire writers who can do the job they're paid to do.
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Feb 20, 2016 05:36
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Josh Lyman posted:Daredevil also had slow parts, and it makes me think Netflix should switch to 10 episode seasons. Aphrodite posted:Or hire writers who can do the job they're paid to do. not this poo poo again. The "slow parts" in both shows are literally character development.
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Feb 20, 2016 09:29
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Snak posted:not this poo poo again. The "slow parts" in both shows are literally character development.
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Feb 20, 2016 09:34
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Yeah I guess if you want to reduce it all the way down to two plot beats of "...Jessica not killing Kilgrave and him convincing someone to help him escape." Robyn, who you refer to as "the twincest female", is a character about manifesting dependency as anger. That storyline is an example of how grief and fear and vulnerability can lead to a mob mentality, but they won't really help you. People act like the story of Jessica Jones, season 1, is that Jessica screws around failing to stop Kilgrave until she finally does. Yeah it's not a great plot. Fortunately, it's a story about trauma and empathy. Literally all of the main characters have been traumatized in the course of the story. That's not just "backstory". It is the story. The story is about different people's reactions to emotional trauma, and how learning to understand each other's feelings makes them stronger. Kilgrave's weakness is literally empathy. He has none, so can't understand it. When the "good guys" understand each other, Jessica has what she needs to defeat Kilgrave.
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Feb 20, 2016 09:58
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Snak posted:Jessica screws around failing to stop Kilgrave until she finally does. Yeah it's not a great plot. I'm glad we finally agree.
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Feb 20, 2016 10:03
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What she needs to defeat Kilgrave: a hoodie, and some headphones.
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Feb 20, 2016 16:27
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OHHHHHH, IT'S JUST PATSY!
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Feb 20, 2016 17:25
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Snak posted:People act like the story of Jessica Jones, season 1, is that Jessica screws around failing to stop Kilgrave until she finally does. Yeah it's not a great plot. CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:I'm glad we finally agree. I think you guys need to pay more attention. The reason Jessica didn't just destroy Kilgrave most of the season is because she needed his confession to get Hope out of prison. She was "liberated" only when Hope killed herself.
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Feb 20, 2016 21:20
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Well I'm differentiating between "plot" and "story".
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Feb 20, 2016 21:22
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enraged_camel posted:I think you guys need to pay more attention. im sure thats very comforting to all the people Kilgrave murdered and enslaved in the interim
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Feb 20, 2016 21:25
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Soothing Vapors posted:im sure thats very comforting to all the people Kilgrave murdered and enslaved in the interim Again, you need to pay more attention. Jessica isn't a hero. She wants to save Hope because she feels a personal connection: they have both been abused and raped by Kilgrave. So she is willing to do whatever it takes to save her, even if it endangers many other innocent people. Her decisions aren't logical. She is still under trauma.
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Feb 20, 2016 21:33
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The Punisher wouldn't have let all those innocent people get hurt by kilgrave
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Feb 20, 2016 21:37
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enraged_camel posted:Again, you need to pay more attention. pls stop mansplaining to me
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Feb 20, 2016 21:38
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Soothing Vapors posted:pls stop mansplaining to me just like a red piller would say, gas the MRA now before he infects the rest of the thread
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Feb 20, 2016 21:52
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HIJK posted:just like a red piller would say, gas the MRA now before he infects the rest of the thread lay off man, camel's not that bad
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Feb 20, 2016 22:03
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Well we all have different opinions and interpretations of the show. In my case, I figured that Jessica did want to defeat and imprison (And not kill Kilgrave.) because she wanted to acquit Hope. But also because, as hard and crusty as she was, she doesn't want to kill anyone. And the sequence in the restaurant was the final push she needed to reach the decision to kill Kilgrave. But even when it comes time to do it, she doesn't have any joy in doing it. And I liked it that she doesn't agonise needlessly over the idea that's she responsible for the deaths caused by someone elses actions. And I get the feeling that could be the main idealogical theme running through Season 2 of Daredevil. The Punisher is someone who feels he has to kill bad guys before they kill others, or else he becomes responsible. While Daredevil might struggle with the idea, he will come to the realization he is only responsible for his actions and not the actions of what someone might do.
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Feb 20, 2016 23:27
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Yeah, the only other time we see her kill someone, it's such a shock to her system that it causes her brain to short circuit and get free of Kilgrave's control. I don't blame her for wanting to see him exposed and pay for his crimes. She's been through such damaging trauma that I think she needed to feel connection to society again. With Hope, she could attempt to help herself through Hope being found innocent. If Hope, who was ordered to kill, could be found innocent through Kilgrave's manipulations, then Jessica in her mind would be as well. By killing him, she's not finding peace or justice or understanding of her situation. She'd be committing murder, which she was forced to do when Hope was lost. Yeah, it could have been probably paced differently, but I don't find fault in her reluctance to kill or her desire to show the world just what kind of man Kilgrave is.
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Feb 21, 2016 09:16
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Yeah, she wanted Hope to get free and vindicated and go back to her normal life and live happily ever after because then Jessica might have believed it would be possible for her. She wants Malcolm to go home and back to his life for the same reason, but she doesn't feel as strong a connection as she does with Hope who has suffered the same abuses including rape and forced to murder. Jessica wasn't problem solving which is why she didn't run some math and decide killing Kilgrave was best. She was desperately hoping for a bigger fix that could heal all the damage she'd been suffering with. I mean, her name was Hope. Not Reason.
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Feb 21, 2016 22:44
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Maybe the thread title should be changed to reflect the upcoming premiere date of daredevil.
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Feb 22, 2016 02:39
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I don't know anything about either of the Punisher movies, which one should I watch first?
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Feb 22, 2016 04:01
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HIJK posted:I don't know anything about either of the Punisher movies, which one should I watch first? You might as well start with the Dolph Lundgren one and watch all three of them.
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Feb 22, 2016 04:11
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HIJK posted:I don't know anything about either of the Punisher movies, which one should I watch first? There are 3 Punisher movies. There is also a short film that can be watched whenever, but is best seen after the Thomas Jane version. Chronological order will give you more color with each movie. Jane, Stevenson, Lundgren will give you an ever taller Punisher. Jane, Lundgren, Stevenson will get you a progressively more more insane plot. Lundgren is the only one with it's finger on the pulse of America, and thus is the only one to show you dat Punisher rear end.
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Feb 22, 2016 04:18
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Hmm, I do love some naked rear end in my movies. Guess I'll start with Lundgren!
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Feb 22, 2016 04:23
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Gyges posted:Lundgren is the only one with it's finger on the pulse of America, and thus is the only one to show you dat Punisher rear end. I feel like I saw Stevenson's rear end enough times in Rome that I can interpolate it into War Zone regardless of its clothed status, ergo War Zone remains the best film
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Feb 22, 2016 04:51
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Punisher has to show up in Daredevil because it's the only MCU property where the hero doesn't just kill dudes. He's got no real place in the MCU where the whole "Gotta let the bad live so they can escape" doesn't exist outside of one Netflix show.
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Feb 22, 2016 04:57
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SirDan3k posted:Punisher has to show up in Daredevil because it's the only MCU property where the hero doesn't just kill dudes. Plus, he was memorably in Frank Miller's Daredevil run a few years before he got his first Punisher mini-series.
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Feb 22, 2016 05:00
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Rachael Taylor posted a picture of herself with red hair. Hellcat in JJ S2 likely!
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Feb 23, 2016 15:34
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Heavy Metal posted:Plus, he was memorably in Frank Miller's Daredevil run a few years before he got his first Punisher mini-series. And an also memorable appearance by Daredevil in that highlights the opposing worldviews of Frank and Matt in Ennis's "Welcome Back Frank", which seems to be getting incorporated into the show. BizarroAzrael fucked around with this message at 17:05 on Feb 23, 2016 |
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Feb 23, 2016 17:01
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SirDan3k posted:Punisher has to show up in Daredevil because it's the only MCU property where the hero doesn't just kill dudes. Well most of the MCU people outside their TV shows wouldn't care about the kind of criminals Big Pun goes after. The movies are mostly global stuff as opposed to seeing whether Captain America would murder a purse thief.
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Feb 23, 2016 17:51
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BizarroAzrael posted:And an also memorable appearance by Daredevil in that highlights the opposing worldviews of Frank and Matt in Ennis's "Welcome Back Frank", which seems to be getting incorporated into the show. I've only read the handful of pages where Daredevil is tied up and forced to choose that were linked to a page or two back but I fail to see how it highlights the differences and it appears to me more to highlight the similarities, in a "one bad day away from being me" sense. I'm also not terribly fond of the scene though and hope that if the writers do include it they subvert it by not having Matt fire, since he's already had his "can/should I kill?" moment and come down on the other side and there's no reason for him to feel the need to save the life of some random mafia douchenozzle when he could instead take the time to break free and capture Frank after he's killed said random douchenozzle. Honestly, the scene comes off kind of spiteful to me more than anything, like it was written by someone not terribly fond of Matt or heroes with no kill policies and wanting to make them look lovely more than to point out the flaws or to do anything constructive with Daredevil as a character. Maybe the full issue adds more and I probably shouldn't judge it so harshly on the back of a few pages, but that's certainly the feeling I got reading them regardless.
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Feb 24, 2016 02:44
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tsob posted:I've only read the handful of pages where Daredevil is tied up and forced to choose that were linked to a page or two back but I fail to see how it highlights the differences and it appears to me more to highlight the similarities, in a "one bad day away from being me" sense. I'm also not terribly fond of the scene though and hope that if the writers do include it they subvert it by not having Matt fire, since he's already had his "can/should I kill?" moment and come down on the other side and there's no reason for him to feel the need to save the life of some random mafia douchenozzle when he could instead take the time to break free and capture Frank after he's killed said random douchenozzle. Honestly, the scene comes off kind of spiteful to me more than anything, like it was written by someone not terribly fond of Matt or heroes with no kill policies and wanting to make them look lovely more than to point out the flaws or to do anything constructive with Daredevil as a character. Maybe the full issue adds more and I probably shouldn't judge it so harshly on the back of a few pages, but that's certainly the feeling I got reading them regardless. Hahahahahahahahaaaaaa ohh boy well, you actually nailed it in this paragraph. Garth Ennis didn't like that the American comic book market is so superhero heavy so the Punisher kind of became his poster boy for "ordinary people are so cool you guysssssssss" (since Punisher doesn't have any special abilities besides his determination) and he's a bit infamous for not being very fond of capes. He does enjoy Superman and Wonder Woman if my skimming of comic book journalism is to be believed. That being said, Ennis does have a fondness for Daredevil. He did make him the smart one in the Confederacy of Dunces:   Coming from Garth Ennis, having Matt be the one who understands Frank Castle this well is a high compliment. tl;dr - those pages you cited are exactly what you say they are. It's a powerful scene but it's also a power fantasy for Frank, and Matt goes back to kicking his rear end under other authors.
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Feb 24, 2016 03:14
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Snak posted:You might as well start with the Dolph Lundgren one and watch all three of them. Best advice from Snak, in a coons age.
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Feb 24, 2016 11:37
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Variety reviews the first seven DD season 2 episodes
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Feb 24, 2016 16:52
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None of this is really surprising. Too bad DeKnight didn't come back, it sounds like with 14 producers, goddamn, the show loses its focus and won't be as tight. Also  at loving slo-mo bloodspray. Did they grab the cinematographer from Hannibal? Maybe Matt flings himself and Frank off a cliff at the end after they declare their love for each other.
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Feb 24, 2016 18:14
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It doesn't sound much different than season 1 if some of the earlier fight scenes hadn't been there.
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Feb 24, 2016 18:30
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